Vickerman in no way earned his RWC spot. There was no way that he was the form player in his position and indeed had no proved his fitness to tour, as came back to bite that administration.
Now with players being selected on the basis of form, first and foremost, such a situation will never arise again.
Thanks NOS
Perish the thought that Perpignan go down at our expense; local derbies are the lifeblood of the fans and with seemingly Carca doomed from ProD2 it would be handy to have them in ProD2 if we don't go up. Handy to have them in Top14 if we do.
Are we ready? If we go up, time will tell. We do have a team backbone of very young, very talented players who we can see improve every week. We have a number more in the academy.
Props and 2nd row are probably the areas that we would need to strengthen. Seb Petit (captain and loose head) will be retiring and stan wright is not getting any younger. We do have some very good props behind them and amazing young blokes in the academy, though they may not be ready next year for the brutality of t14 front row play.
It would be great to get 'Aussie' Josh Furno back from Biarritz: he left as the Italian Coach wanted him to play in T14 this year. Not sure we could afford him as he is killing it.
Other than that.......we should feel confident that the players we have can make an impression. They are doing it every week, and whilst it is a step up, their pace, skills and attitude (no fear) could prove devastating.
Thanks for all this info Chris. It does sound promising! Really hope the club progresses steadily.
Dunno if you'll read this but if so, do you think the club is ready to play in Top 14 next year (should you get promoted I mean) or is it too early?
Don't want to jinx Perpignan but I imagine that many Narbonnais wouldn't mind the neighbour to get relegated and in the meantime take their spot in Top 14!? ;) (plus a few young Catalans would maybe consider moving to Narbonne)
Nick,
The good news is that the model for sustainability (incur view) is all about young French players: we are recruiting the best young talent in France into the academy,teaching them skills, physically preparing them and then playing them in the Pro's. in fact, many of the locals, and the press refer to the team as 'Les Petits'.
However,we know that when they reach potential (26/27) they will be offered far more money than we can afford to play elsewhere (in prod2, some of the teams have budgets 5x ours).
This has 2 implications:
1. We need younger, even better players coming through.
2. We need to have a group of experienced players from overseas.
Progress is being made. There is a long way to go to know if the model will sustain. To give it a chance, we need to continually innovate. But 3rd place, top points scorers in the league, 2nd top try scorers etc are all good indicators.
We hope that the journey continues, either this year or next to th highest level.....then the real hard work will commence.
Andy fair point I went a bit over the top and did not think it all through you and Johno have good points, I just looked at the fors from Rockys interview and believe entrepreneurs can offer more to clubs .
And you do realise that the state bodies are all part of the ARU/rugby administration and have their own budgets and revenues? And aside from the money the ARU cascades directly (I think $7-10M was the number Jez came up with), they have also cascaded tens of millions directly into just the Premier clubs over the last decade? I don't disagree it could and should have been more, and I loathe that they will be taking levies from the ACT, Vic, WA and probably SA and almost certainly spend it all in NSW and Q'ld, but I don't think that could ever jusify going to system that would mean none of that money ever again.
No worries chris,
Tbh I didn't 'represent' or speak about this article, I just gave one example of the difficulties aussies abroad may sometimes encounter, particularly due to cultural/language differences. (maybe Rocky didn't say that and it was badly translated I don't know but it didn't come across very well). The reason why I did that is that we often read one side of the story in Oz especially about things abroad and I would have had many more questions to ask Rocky.
As a French (now living in Oz) who once lived in Sete not too far from Narbonne, I know the region fairly well. When I read this article the part about the 'assurance maladie' was the one that stroke me most and reading the comments from French ppl at the bottom of the article I wasn't the only one.
I still follow French rugby albeit from far especially clubs like Narbonne who have aussies in it. I would love Narbonne or Beziers to go back to top level as they represent the rugby that I knew when I was still there.
I also know that many locals would prefer if the club could be sustainable at top level with mostly young French talent rather than foreigners. that's the model most want I would say. I completely understand Rocky when he says that young French players are more expensive than foreigners, that's one of the paradox of French rugby. But if he/you guys could achieve that or even remain a healthy club in Pro D2 with local boys that would be great. Again good luck to you guys.
PS: That's the bit I was talking about:
"Vos statistiques en terme de blessures, par rapport à l'année dernière, sont-elles meilleures ?"
Elles sont bien meilleures ! Ce qui nous pose d'ailleurs un problème.
"Lequel ?"
"Au niveau du budget ! Quand un joueur est blessé, on récupère une partie de son salaire grâce à l'assurance-maladie. Comme il y a moins de blessés, on le ressent sur le budget du club. On est à 100 jours d'arrêt maladie en moins par rapport à la saison dernière, ce n'est pas rien. Le travail que fait Dean Benton aide beaucoup."
As I said above I don't think community rugby saw much cash filter down during the JON era of the ARU! Oh and Andy S you do know Bill Pulver and the ARU have hit community rugby with a levy to help the ARU cover costs like paying the wallaby players. Hardly a fair model, taking from the bottom to supplement the top and help the wallabies achieve more, why should community rugby be obligated to do that it's not there problem. Why don't the ARU and the wallabies give a percentage of there match payments to junior rugby then, huh.
Yes, that is an article that I am aware of, though I am not sure that you have represented it fairly.
Whilst it is fair to say that not everyone has welcomed Australian ownership of the club, no-one can deny that the club was slipping to the amateurs and going broke.
It is now profitable, playing (according to many commentators) the most attractive rugby in France, top points scorer in ProD2 (eg 23 tries in last 3 games) and whilst nothing has been achieved yet, is in 3rd place with a good opportunity to secure a home final for promotion to Top14.
Over 20 players from the academy have been blooded in the pro's this year, and they make up the backbone of the team week in week out: this is the only way to achieve 'sustainable success', the stated goal of getting involved in the first place.
Whilst none of this is saving babies, it has stopped this historic club from imploding and put it back on a good path.
Most interesting to me is that none of this has been done by throwing money at it. It has been done by focussing on the simple things that enhance the performance on the field: good recruitment, physical preperation, nutrition, skills, knowledge and culture.
We will see over time what happens, but the journey so far has been extraordinary.....sustaining the progress now is the focus and if we continue to achieve objectives and the club, this year or next gets to Top14, it needs to sustain its place: for a city of 50,000 people with no 'sugar Daddy' that would be something, wouldn't it?
Yeah, I do. Those sports still have national bodies, and the premise was clearly stated..."the clubs should breakaway from and be free as a bird from the ARU". Not even the limited support that the english clubs give the RFU (and they are trying to do away with) - none, nada. So no Test rugby, which is the part of the game that generates money and filters it down through the unions to all those hundreds of amateur clubs, juniors, schools, etc. And no competition against anyone wanting to retain IRB recognition, so the game would be solely domestic with no international element. Every aspect of that domestic game would be to their account - I wonder how deep their pockets would be. The Rebels experience wouldn't give me much confidence, I have to say.
You reckon. Look at rugby league, the NRL clubs control elite junior development eg Harold Matthews, SG Ball, not the actual NRL itself. They contribute eg faciilties payments some grants to clubs, but the lionshare of production is done by the clubs.
Manchetser United are privatley owned ever heard of Man United youth academies. Wigan rugby league have good RL academies too. They set these academies up so they can have future talent $$.
Great show again, thanks Scott. Wondering why it doesn't go direct to youtube. Maybe easier to deploy and track?
re Oz lineups: interesting Tahs and Reds have done a "EM", moving their lock to backrow (akin to Fardy in WBs) maybe for a bit more bulk, and letting the younger locks start. Conversely, Brumbies have moved Fardy back to lock. Leon Power injured, so Fardy fills in. Sio also hurt, so JPS comes in at #1. Brumbies running out of players... Force MMM is on backrow on the account of McCalman red card.
SteveW
Guest
Does anybody where Rodney Blake is, is he still playing.
Gnostic
Guest
Vickerman in no way earned his RWC spot. There was no way that he was the form player in his position and indeed had no proved his fitness to tour, as came back to bite that administration. Now with players being selected on the basis of form, first and foremost, such a situation will never arise again.
Chris Bayman
Guest
Ps a bit of footage from the win over Carcassonne lat weekend https://vimeo.com/89594817
Chris Bayman
Guest
Thanks NOS Perish the thought that Perpignan go down at our expense; local derbies are the lifeblood of the fans and with seemingly Carca doomed from ProD2 it would be handy to have them in ProD2 if we don't go up. Handy to have them in Top14 if we do. Are we ready? If we go up, time will tell. We do have a team backbone of very young, very talented players who we can see improve every week. We have a number more in the academy. Props and 2nd row are probably the areas that we would need to strengthen. Seb Petit (captain and loose head) will be retiring and stan wright is not getting any younger. We do have some very good props behind them and amazing young blokes in the academy, though they may not be ready next year for the brutality of t14 front row play. It would be great to get 'Aussie' Josh Furno back from Biarritz: he left as the Italian Coach wanted him to play in T14 this year. Not sure we could afford him as he is killing it. Other than that.......we should feel confident that the players we have can make an impression. They are doing it every week, and whilst it is a step up, their pace, skills and attitude (no fear) could prove devastating.
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
Thanks for all this info Chris. It does sound promising! Really hope the club progresses steadily. Dunno if you'll read this but if so, do you think the club is ready to play in Top 14 next year (should you get promoted I mean) or is it too early? Don't want to jinx Perpignan but I imagine that many Narbonnais wouldn't mind the neighbour to get relegated and in the meantime take their spot in Top 14!? ;) (plus a few young Catalans would maybe consider moving to Narbonne)
Chris Bayman
Guest
Nick, The good news is that the model for sustainability (incur view) is all about young French players: we are recruiting the best young talent in France into the academy,teaching them skills, physically preparing them and then playing them in the Pro's. in fact, many of the locals, and the press refer to the team as 'Les Petits'. However,we know that when they reach potential (26/27) they will be offered far more money than we can afford to play elsewhere (in prod2, some of the teams have budgets 5x ours). This has 2 implications: 1. We need younger, even better players coming through. 2. We need to have a group of experienced players from overseas. Progress is being made. There is a long way to go to know if the model will sustain. To give it a chance, we need to continually innovate. But 3rd place, top points scorers in the league, 2nd top try scorers etc are all good indicators. We hope that the journey continues, either this year or next to th highest level.....then the real hard work will commence.
Magic Sponge
Guest
Andy fair point I went a bit over the top and did not think it all through you and Johno have good points, I just looked at the fors from Rockys interview and believe entrepreneurs can offer more to clubs .
AndyS
Guest
And you do realise that the state bodies are all part of the ARU/rugby administration and have their own budgets and revenues? And aside from the money the ARU cascades directly (I think $7-10M was the number Jez came up with), they have also cascaded tens of millions directly into just the Premier clubs over the last decade? I don't disagree it could and should have been more, and I loathe that they will be taking levies from the ACT, Vic, WA and probably SA and almost certainly spend it all in NSW and Q'ld, but I don't think that could ever jusify going to system that would mean none of that money ever again.
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
No worries chris, Tbh I didn't 'represent' or speak about this article, I just gave one example of the difficulties aussies abroad may sometimes encounter, particularly due to cultural/language differences. (maybe Rocky didn't say that and it was badly translated I don't know but it didn't come across very well). The reason why I did that is that we often read one side of the story in Oz especially about things abroad and I would have had many more questions to ask Rocky. As a French (now living in Oz) who once lived in Sete not too far from Narbonne, I know the region fairly well. When I read this article the part about the 'assurance maladie' was the one that stroke me most and reading the comments from French ppl at the bottom of the article I wasn't the only one. I still follow French rugby albeit from far especially clubs like Narbonne who have aussies in it. I would love Narbonne or Beziers to go back to top level as they represent the rugby that I knew when I was still there. I also know that many locals would prefer if the club could be sustainable at top level with mostly young French talent rather than foreigners. that's the model most want I would say. I completely understand Rocky when he says that young French players are more expensive than foreigners, that's one of the paradox of French rugby. But if he/you guys could achieve that or even remain a healthy club in Pro D2 with local boys that would be great. Again good luck to you guys. PS: That's the bit I was talking about: "Vos statistiques en terme de blessures, par rapport à l'année dernière, sont-elles meilleures ?" Elles sont bien meilleures ! Ce qui nous pose d'ailleurs un problème. "Lequel ?" "Au niveau du budget ! Quand un joueur est blessé, on récupère une partie de son salaire grâce à l'assurance-maladie. Comme il y a moins de blessés, on le ressent sur le budget du club. On est à 100 jours d'arrêt maladie en moins par rapport à la saison dernière, ce n'est pas rien. Le travail que fait Dean Benton aide beaucoup."
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
Fantastic news Chris, great success!
Johnno
Guest
As I said above I don't think community rugby saw much cash filter down during the JON era of the ARU! Oh and Andy S you do know Bill Pulver and the ARU have hit community rugby with a levy to help the ARU cover costs like paying the wallaby players. Hardly a fair model, taking from the bottom to supplement the top and help the wallabies achieve more, why should community rugby be obligated to do that it's not there problem. Why don't the ARU and the wallabies give a percentage of there match payments to junior rugby then, huh.
Chris Bayman
Guest
Nick Socios oversubscribed: 250 + people who had their first soirée last Monday.
Chris Bayman
Guest
Yes, that is an article that I am aware of, though I am not sure that you have represented it fairly. Whilst it is fair to say that not everyone has welcomed Australian ownership of the club, no-one can deny that the club was slipping to the amateurs and going broke. It is now profitable, playing (according to many commentators) the most attractive rugby in France, top points scorer in ProD2 (eg 23 tries in last 3 games) and whilst nothing has been achieved yet, is in 3rd place with a good opportunity to secure a home final for promotion to Top14. Over 20 players from the academy have been blooded in the pro's this year, and they make up the backbone of the team week in week out: this is the only way to achieve 'sustainable success', the stated goal of getting involved in the first place. Whilst none of this is saving babies, it has stopped this historic club from imploding and put it back on a good path. Most interesting to me is that none of this has been done by throwing money at it. It has been done by focussing on the simple things that enhance the performance on the field: good recruitment, physical preperation, nutrition, skills, knowledge and culture. We will see over time what happens, but the journey so far has been extraordinary.....sustaining the progress now is the focus and if we continue to achieve objectives and the club, this year or next gets to Top14, it needs to sustain its place: for a city of 50,000 people with no 'sugar Daddy' that would be something, wouldn't it?
AndyS
Guest
Yeah, I do. Those sports still have national bodies, and the premise was clearly stated..."the clubs should breakaway from and be free as a bird from the ARU". Not even the limited support that the english clubs give the RFU (and they are trying to do away with) - none, nada. So no Test rugby, which is the part of the game that generates money and filters it down through the unions to all those hundreds of amateur clubs, juniors, schools, etc. And no competition against anyone wanting to retain IRB recognition, so the game would be solely domestic with no international element. Every aspect of that domestic game would be to their account - I wonder how deep their pockets would be. The Rebels experience wouldn't give me much confidence, I have to say.
Johnno
Guest
You reckon. Look at rugby league, the NRL clubs control elite junior development eg Harold Matthews, SG Ball, not the actual NRL itself. They contribute eg faciilties payments some grants to clubs, but the lionshare of production is done by the clubs. Manchetser United are privatley owned ever heard of Man United youth academies. Wigan rugby league have good RL academies too. They set these academies up so they can have future talent $$.
AndyS
Guest
They do a damn sight more than any privately owned team would...
RobC
Roar Guru
Just had a check re Reds. Simmons still running as lock. I thought I read somewhere McDuling was coming on.
Johnno
Guest
I don't think the ARU do much for those annoying grassroots just ask JON lol
RobC
Roar Guru
Great show again, thanks Scott. Wondering why it doesn't go direct to youtube. Maybe easier to deploy and track? re Oz lineups: interesting Tahs and Reds have done a "EM", moving their lock to backrow (akin to Fardy in WBs) maybe for a bit more bulk, and letting the younger locks start. Conversely, Brumbies have moved Fardy back to lock. Leon Power injured, so Fardy fills in. Sio also hurt, so JPS comes in at #1. Brumbies running out of players... Force MMM is on backrow on the account of McCalman red card.
AndyS
Guest
Yep, that would certainly be the way to get rid of those bloody annoying grassroots and clubs. Simplify things enormously...