Jonny Wilkinson announces retirement

Well,as a saffa you would see it that way.Beyond goalkicking he didn't offer much more.I expect a player to be able to do more than just his core job,and to me he was a by the books player.Very good at what he did,but limited as a player,for all that. As an aside,I hardly think Australa had a superior forward pack to England in 2007.At the WC,that English pack took Aussie to the cleaners,particularly at scrum time.Australia weren't much chop in that tournament,and it was up front that they were exposed.

No worries Birdy, that was not what I was trying to promote but can see I havent articulated myself very well ;)

Diggercane; please don't fall into the SH press propaganda trap when they were seeking to destabilize the England team before the 2003 WC of believing this 'one-dimensional' England rubbish. Between 2001-2003 England averaged about the same number of tries per game as the ABs (about 4.5). If the conditions and opposition meant it was the best way to go in a particular game they'd 'kick' their way to victory - if the tries were on they'd take them. Wilkinson could be the pivotal point in either style - and often was before injuries which would have ended most other players' career began to kick-in after 2003 and England massively dropped of in quality because of a lack of post-2003 planning.

Fair enough, no one's perfect. Except me.

I normally agree with you,but not on this.

Good call.

Thanks Jimmy. I dont get to see much, if any NH rugby due to well life really, just dont have the time to keep up with Super as well so appreciate the insights. I definitely think many hold an unfair perception of him based on his style of play within a team structure rather than what he is capable of. The best players always keep learning and adjusting I think. Wee while back I was stuck in a long que at the Supermarket and struck up a conversation with and elderly gentlemen in the same que, chap was easily in his eighties and I mentioned that on Sports talk on the radio there had been discussion over who is the best AB of all time and asked his opinion and he stated without question that it was MaCaw because no other player in his view has had to adjust his game to reflect changing laws and still remain top of the pile. It was a good view I thought which I hadnt considered before. Wilkinson would also fit into that mould I think.

No question Digger, he certainly had/has more to his game than just kicking the leather of it and sledgehammer defence. He's an exceptional passer of the ball which is a pre-requisite for any self respecting 10. He's actually playing more with ball in hand right at the end of his career than he did in the later part of his England career. It's entirely possible that he's still learning and improving in certain aspects of his game, even now, two games before he call's it quits.

Hi Jimmy, Its interesting as I remember Wilkinson pre 2003 as a very gifted attacking player if allowed to be which may not have have suited the 2003 winning team if that makes sense. Im sure he was instrumental in a test win over the ABs in the early 2000s where he was absolutely dynamic from memory. I always thought his injuries were a plague but i do think he was a better ball in hand player than many suggest. Thoughts?

Yeah, I don't buy that. The Blues won a bunch of tight games with him at the helm, as did the AB's.

A great player and a very decent bloke who's legacy is secure. He always conducts himself with grace and has never given anything less than 100% in whatever team he is playing for, he certainly hasn't just saved himself for the big occasion. He and Carter seem to have a lot in common in the way that they conduct themselves. It's fair to say that Carter is the better all round package, not that you'd find any Englishmen wishing we'd had Carter over Wilkinson. The main difference between the two IMO is Carter's pace off the mark meaning he can glide through almost non existent gaps. Unfortunately for Jonny no matter how hard he worked on his game, he couldn't alter the inexorable fact that he wasn't very quick in elite terms. I suppose the thing that Jonny has over DC is the fact that he was a crucial cog in a WC winning team and through no real fault of his own Carter hasn't been....yet.

Problem is,when he needed to step up in a pivotal game,he always went missing.Always looked good when not under pressure,but couldn't do it when the squeeze was on.Makes him a flake in my book.

Spencer was no Carter but he gets such a bad rap for a guy that won 3 Super Rugby titles, multiple NPC titles and Ranfurly Shield matches and 3 Tri-Nations titles. For a 'flake', he managed to win a LOT of big matches.

You're comparing Spencer to DC - laughable.One is a world class performer with a complete all round game,the other was a flake who made stupid decisions under pressure.Can you work out which is which? Try comparing Spencer to another flake,Quade Cooper,a more realistic comparison.

a one off game with nothing on it

Agree about his defence,but I would take issue with you about that "great" AB side.For all it dominated the Tr-Nations that year,they were proven to be one-dimensional come the RWC. Eddie Jones simply out-coached Deans and Mitchell,no great achievement in my book.

Thanks Chan, enjoyed that.

A great player. When he was at his best there were few better. His career was dogged by injury, I personally think he should have retired many years ago. But, he's shown for Toulon that he is still a world-beater. Few better at kicking (from anywhere, tactical, place kicking, dgs) and superbe defence. Not the most naturally gifted of players, I think Carter and Larkham were more talented, but any teams would want him as no.10. Seemingly a great guy and all-around class act. Will deserve his place in Rugby Hall Of Fame

My favourite 10s 1. Mehrtens 2. Ella 3. Larkham 4. Carter 5. Wilkinson 6. Steyn 7,Porta 8. Spencer 9 . Lynagh 10. O'Gara

oh well "Toulon want to retire number 10 shirt 20th May 2014 09:01 Reports in France state that Toulon owner Mourad Boudjellal will write to the LNR requesting to retire Jonny Wilkinson's number 10 shirt. Wilkinson joined the club in 2009 and has become a hugely influential figure for the European champions. The former England fly-half has announced that he will retire at the end of the season after a glittering career, after the Heineken Cup and Top 14 Finals. Boudjellal will allegedly write to the Ligue Nationale de Rugby asking to retire the 10 jersey, according to RMC Sport. It had not been made clear so far which number Toulon would use on the back of the fly-half's shirt instead, while there is also significant doubt regarding whether the request will be accepted. Another option could be to use a letter instead of a number, just as Leicester Tigers have done in the past. In that system, 'J' represent the fly-half. ""