Did the ref get it right in the All Blacks vs England?

Without getting into any of the incidents that have been discussed here at length I actually thought the penalty against England that lead to the winning try was a terrible call and an example of the mess the ruck has become. Mealamu 'earned' a penalty for the English player not releasing. To my eyes, Mealamu was not a tackler and was the third NZ player arriving at the breakdown. By that stage a ruck had formed with at least 1 player from each side in contact on their feet over the ball. Mealamu then had a crack at the ball and earned the penalty. My understanding is that the tackler is able to get to his feet and after allowing the tackled player an opportunity to play the ball can contest with his hands once a ruck has formed but no other player can use their hands until the ball is out. If that is still the law then I can't see how Mealamu had any rights to use his hands and then earn a penalty. Am I completely misreading this? It would be simpler if they went back to a simple - once a ruck is formed no hands can be used and the ref shouts out a clear 'no hands now' to the players. This was the interpretation around the late 90's and early 00's and it seemed to work pretty well and was at least clear.

Stop, Stop, Stop we've all had enough of AB's and England every time I log in there is more and more--- guys the game finished over 3 days ago As a game it was no big deal often Super Stuff is better. Lets talk WC -- I reckon semi finalists will be NZ, AUST, South A and England -- who will lose the first semi to Australia Comments?.

Completely true. In minute 60 the english winger is shown a card for the same offence that was only a penalty down the other end. Also, I saw a tackle in the air to Dagg not penalised and some other stuff. Not the best game by Nigel Owens

Agree it was a risk but as they say it does equal reward. ABs are well known for their high tempo high risk play.. as he has done so for both Chiefs & ABs in recent years, Cruden backed himself & his team skills to go for the try & got paid. If ABs took the 3 & England lands a penalty or scores a try what then? Yes taking the 3 wouldve been a sensible decision but ABs are on top of the heap for many reasons including backing themselves. Of course if ABs had not scored & England lands another penalty then id be here cursing Crudens decision lol ;) But fortunately that didnt happen :)

As I said upthread, I reckon the penalty against Mealamu is the single worst call of the match. I can't for the life of me see how you could find a penalty there.

Direction of the hands, momentum etc are all irrelevant in determining a knock on. If it lands (or hits another player) in front of where it was touched, it's a knock on. If it doesn't, it's not.

i just think it's become common to make a big deal about calls that go the ABs way and ignore things that didn't. Just like everyone seems to be ignoring that Dagg got tackled in the air and no penalty was given, or the alledged trip on Aaron Smith. The winning team is hardly going to come out and whinge about refs calls

I think Nonu probably should have got a yellow but then it was evened out by England noy being penalised fro the Dagg tackle. Can't say I notice the trip on Smith

Actually having rewatched the match, I think the clearest mistake the ref made is the tie up penalty he gave against Keven Mealamu. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiJQGG6b__o&feature=youtu.be&t=40m30s at 40:30. Watch that and tell me that you can find a penalty against Mealamu.

Like England at Twickenham last year?

it was very risky and it took them some time to score. and they hadnt managed a try in the preceding 70 mins. it was the wrong decision for mine, the fact it didnt bite them doesnt change that.

it must be early, ur making sense jerry. i'll have to let that one settle in. when you put it in those terms the ref cant avoid reading minds. perhaps its the rule that is the problem. intent is a ridiculous thing to make game changing calls on in this day and age in my mind in that kind of attacking situation it should be yellow every time and the onus should be on the player to avoid any penalty.i accept though that the rule arent written that way (assuming what youve summarise above there is 100% accurate). really it would have been best if owens had screamed at him to let it go then there could have been no doubt about him knowing the score so i still think owens botched the management of the situation.

see my response below regarding the naivety of making decisions based on what thought a player was thinking in the professional age

I don't need to know because of two things: 1 - Nobody hates the All Blacks as much as you without being a Rugby fan that has had to suffer through many hours of hopeful anticipation of them losing to then see them win. 2 - It does not matter who 'your team is' they regularly get beaten by the All Blacks, that's just a fact!!

"I speak to many different nationalities all the time about rugby because it is something I am interested in. A common theme is always, the NZers get away with murder and there’s no consistency..." Well I had to laugh at that picture, so what do you do: walk up to all manner of people in the streets conducting a poll, like some strange kind of street 'person', all the while mumbling inanely to yourself about the darkness that's afflicting us all? Or, do you harass people at your local pub who will say anything to you just to be rid of you. Are you that desperate for conversation that you will seek people out just to vent about a team you don't even support? What an odd chap you must be, to be so consumed by such percieved inequities and injustices. Perhaps if we agree with you here you'll do the same thing and bugger off then.

To keep my sanity, I'll work on the assumption you're being ironic with that comment Sid.

Fair comment Rhino, I thought the knock-on calls were wrong too... its not clear to me, but I was listening to the commentators, and they were saying something about the refs being now being called on to make these calls based on direction/position of the hands... I can understand (I suppose) this with flat passes, with momentum, and balls travelling forward even though they're passed on the line or slightly backwards, but if a ball is travelling backwards from the start of the movement to finish, then where is the knock-on? Weird.

I've never posted on this website straight after an AB game, but I am surprised at the level of hubris and vitriol expressed, and most from those who don't support either team. Haters will be haters I guess, to use the modern vernacular.

Agreed. Nonu was a bit lucky not to get time in the bin... even Justin Marshall called it that way from the commentary box.

Yes, a ref will always make mistakes which will be discussed. That is just expected. But what is not is when one team consistently gets most of the calls in their favor.