England are close to becoming a top-tier competitor

Jay C - by any metrics W Germany is counted with Germany - it would be different if E Germany won it once, so it is still 8 winner from 20. Interestingly there were 4 winners from the first 7 Football world cups, so the same as from the only 7 Rugby world cups - of course the number expands greatly when the semis are taken into consideration - I think 17 compared to 8 for the 7 RWC and 7 for all 14 league World Cups.

Jay C - I just enjoy playing devils advocate, introducing some robust debate onto the threads and forcing the authors to exercise their brains..nothing more boring than everybody agreeing with each other . As far as the NFL model that doesn't worry me (shifting franchises excepted) they have a strict salary cap and a good turnover of teams at the top,You don't get the same teams in the Superbowl year in year out. What worries me is we may go down the EPL path.Scott Woodwards recent article on unlimited TPA payments was the most important article I have read on the future of our game (at least in the southern hemisphere) If I was a supporter of a club like Canberra.Newcastle,Penrith or North Queensland I would be concluding that the future is going to pretty dreary.According to Scott nine do not want these teams winning because they do not rate very well in Sydney or Brisbane. Unlimited TPA payments is a way of undermining the salary cap via the back door giving a huge advantage to Brisbane and the big Sydney clubs like South Sydney because they are the teams nine want at the top of the ladder, they are the teams nine want fighting out the comp in September. Billionaires sons are usually not noted for their patience.Jamie is unlikely to be happy for his new playtoy to be a victim of the karmic nature of the salary cap (two or three seasons as a gun team and then a four or five year rebuild)Any Rugby League fan should read Scott's article closely and really concentrate their mind on it.

Anybody convinced that the tournament is all but decided can simply go and put their money on it. While the possibility remains that Australia can make the final and win it, it's no certainty. In deed a number of margins need to go their way just to assure that. At this stage at any combination could happen if the countries want it enough. It really has been an open, free flowing and exciting competition. But if you want to watch a tournament where the outcome is pretty much per-determined go watch the *yawn* Rugby Championship and the *yawn* Bledisloe Cup...

I'm not quite sure what the trolls are getting so worked up about. I specifically said -- it's only a matter of time before there’s a Top Tier of Rugby League nations in line with what Rugby Union has. I mean look at this way - in Rugby Union the team ranked 11th in the world -- Japan -- has only beaten Tier 1 teams 4 times in their entire history since 1932. World Cup participants Ivory Coast, Spain, Portugal, Zimbabwe, Russia & Namibia haven't won a game there. Japan, Uruguay, Georgia, USA & Romania have only managed to jag one win - usually against other no hopers. Even the Tier 1 teams have their problems. Argentina ranked 10th have only managed 1 win out of 18 Rugby Championship appearances, Italy have only won 11 of their 75 Six Nations matches, Scotland only 19. You look at the World Cups-- 4 have won it Union, 3 in League 8 have made the Semis in Union, 7 in League 12 have made the Quarter Finals in both Admittedly the tournaments have different structures but the fact that despite its global claims the difference is only marginal and it's getter smaller all the time. Samoa are ranked 7th, the difference between teams 4 to 11 is slight. Like I said when you consider that Fiji, PNG, France & Wales have bigger player pools, this explains why there have been 4 Four Nations tournaments each with a different qualifier. In fact it is now 5 and 5 with Scotland making it for the first time. It's only a matter of time before there's a Top 10 teams in league that are beating each other on a consistent and competitive basis.

It will be very interesting to see what happens when the dust settles and the injured come back into contention. .

if Silverwood and Cummings really think that was a try then it shows what a massive chip on the shoulder the poms have. Little wonder oz don't want to be reffed by a pommy ref then!!

Muzz/GI, It will be interesting to see what happens with Packer becoming an owner of the Rabbits. I hope the clubs don't become playthings of the well to do. The NFL in the USA is an example. the way teams are moved and rebranded at the will of the owners is not something I hope for our game. That is the problem with selling something, you don't own it anymore. Maybe the modern day Packer V Murdoch wars can be played out, not in Newspapers, but on the Footy Field.

Your distaste for me aside Glenn. All I was trying to do was defend the optimism shown by code13 about the excellence of this 4nations tournament and the hope that soon Rugby League may be able to enjoy an International Competition as solid as we see in Union. Nowhere did anyone claim it has more depth, nor even equal depth. Code 13 was merely suggesting that RL fans could look to the success of this tournament as a footprint to growing the game internationally. With a thought to becoming as successful as Union has been. Your bitter tongue and dislike of me have clouded your judgement on the arguments presented.

That's funny, because I just watched Samoa take it to New Zealand and England. Which to me would seem like a lower ranked team being competitive with the top tier. The Original comment, by Code 13, was; When you consider that Fiji, PNG, France and Wales have a bigger player pool than Samoa and with England stepping up it’s only a matter of time before there’s a Top Tier of Rugby League nations in line with what Rugby Union has. Which isn't saying Rugby League is the biggest sport in the World. It was saying what a marvellous comp this 4 nations has been and it should give hope to all RL supporters about a bright future - IN LINE WITH WHAT RUGBY UNION HAS. Nowhere did we argue RU was bad or worse or not important. Or even that RL was better. But people have to come onto RL forums constantly an belittle our game for one reason or another. For bejeezus sake all he was saying was that soon we may get to enjoy an international competition on par with RU. But even to have that hope was too much for you dissers.

what's that got to do with league taking over oz?

the only downward force being exerted on the ball is gravity

confirming you have little to no idea. But I praise your enthusiasm, keep it up mate!!

spare as the hyperbole, league is only a game of note in two states of Oz, with barely 50% of the total pop'n

While there doesn't appear to be contact in that blurry image. His finger does appear to be bent back at quite an unnatural angle. Which would tell me there is some force being exerted upon it, and as Newtons Third Law would have us believe there must then be some force being exerted upon the ball.

5-0?, we'd you get that stat from?