The 2015 Asian Cup has, without doubt, been a resounding success. As I cast my eye on the tournament in November, I couldn’t help but wonder whether the whole show would be an enormous flop.
Would Australian locals resonate with the at times obscure foreign teams? I didn’t think so.
I’m very happy to say I’ve been put in my place by what’s been a great show. It’s been a pleasure watching the various outfits bring their passion and culture to Australia, and the fans have shown up in large numbers right around the country.
What was not pleasurable was reading Robbie Slater’s latest column, in which he claimed that Tim Cahill was the best footballer (of any code) that Australia had produced. Tim is a brilliant footballer, but he isn’t Australia’s best ever.
Slater argued that football’s international presence, and its stronger competition, made Tim a superior footballer – after all, scoring goals against quality opposition counts more than against mediocre teams, a fair point.
Cahill has scored 39 international goals for Australia, which is very impressive. However the fact is that most of these goals have not come against the best of what football has to offer. Cahill has scored twice against the Netherlands, in 2006, and his infamous 2014 left-footed volley. He has also scored five times against Japan.
But the large majority of the other 32 goals have come against opposition such as Qatar, Oman and other AFC nations, that are less than the highest level that football can offer – and why Robbie argues Cahill is our greatest ever.
Further, on a technical level, it’s obvious Cahill has one of the most potent headers in international football, but in my view, for him to be Australia’s greatest ever he would need to have some lethal long shots and devastating finesse in his arsenal too.
Let’s take a look at Cahill in comparison to one of Australia’s other greatest finishers – David Campese. Campese was a genuine finisher for the Wallabies in the 1980s and 1990s, amassing an impressive 64 tries in 101 Tests. He is remembered for pioneering the goose-step, a beautiful leg movement that would bamboozle even the best defenders.
But Campese was outstanding not just with his stepping, but his passing, his kicking, his pace, reading of the game and his flair. In my view, Cahill comes up short of world class in some of those (football equivalent) areas. Commenters note – this doesn’t mean Cahill is a slouch.
And indeed, I’m sure those Roarers with longer memories will recall the outstanding Australian sportsmen of the last century, just exactly what these amazing athletes were capable of, and to be wary of hyperbole when discussing who is the best.
Tim Cahill deserves a spot on the list of top Australian sportsmen and women, but he doesn’t deserve the number spot.
Good luck to the Socceroos on Tuesday, and hopefully we will see Australia lifting the Asian Cup on the January 31.
Bfc
Guest
Campo...? The bugger was a great try scorer...but never tackled. And he threw the odd dud pass:) Not sure anyone would argue that Cahill is even the most gifted Socceroo (Schwarzer, Kewell, Viduka, Alan Davidson, Zelic, Okon...a long list of contenders!) but his standing in the history of Oz football is assured by his ability to produce goals at critical moments. As football is truly the 'world game' (and I am a rugby fan...Eales is my best Wallaby...Michael Jones my best AB) I would suggest more people are aware of Cahill than any other Aussie sportsperson. BTW...if one considered just those who were generally accepted to be the 'best' in their game...Lauren Jackson (basketball) and Jamie Dwyer (hockey..named as the best hockey player in the world FIVE times!) would be in the hunt:)
bryan
Guest
Sumo Wrestling is a minority sport even its home country. Cricket is hugely popular in countries with enormous populations,so what world are you referring to ---Europe?
bryan
Guest
NZ plays Cricket,Rugby Union,& League at World level. They also play Football as part of the "A " League,& as a National team. Basketball in the NBL & as a National team. They have won the America's Cup in Yachting,& are represented in most of the Olympic sports. I had forgotten how much drivel you spoke,Punter! By the way,Australia regularly beats both India & Pakistan at Cricket. & how many Gold medals did they get at the Olympics?
bryan
Guest
The OP seemed a bit confused in his article,as the Headline clearly referred to "Sportsmen",with no reference to Football. Further down,he seemed to concentrate on other football codes,then in the last paragraph,he refers to a list of "top Sportsmen & women" On that basis,many of us take it that he is still referring to generic Sportspeople.
bryan
Guest
They certainly were top Sportsmen,though! The original discussion was too wide ranging----it should have stuck to Football. Once you bring in other sports,it is wide open---how about Jack Brabham?,Peter Brock?,Cadel Evans? OK, leave the wheels out--Lionel Rose?,Ian Thorpe? Or let's not be sexist & include Sportswomen----- Cathy Freeman?,Evonne Cawley? Margaret Court?,,Dawn Fraser?
Al
Guest
Gotta disagree there Bill, shot hit Kewell on the upper arm and deflected down onto his hand, IIRC. Goal wasn't prevented by a handball and the handball wasn't intentional, therefore yellow (maybe?) + penalty. Haven't seen a video in years though, so my memory could be shaky.
Al
Guest
Until the comparison was locked down to footballers, my response was going to be "Jamie Dwyer. End of thread. Close the internets, we're done here." Field hockey might not have a great a following as football, but between us, the UK, Germany, Netherlands, Argentina, South Africa, New Zealand, India and Pakistan, the competition is pretty fierce - moreso than the rugby codes.
punter
Guest
Going up to Newcastle now Mid. Maybe the Johns brothers may join me.
Brick Tamland of the pants party
Guest
England - Kewell. I could write a fairly long reason as to why but it's not really necessary to anyone with a clue. Even in the cricket strong hold of Yorkshire Kewell's name would be more known than Bradman's, let alone the majority of the country who don't give a rat's about the sport. USA - Kewell. Both would be unknowns, but Kewell has playing for one of the biggest football clubs in the world on his side for this one. We've seen the level of interest in Liverpool when they have played there. India - Bradman. Absolutely. Brazil - Kewell. Ask a Brazilian about cricket and they will probably think your talking about the insect. Kewell has played against Brazil in a confederations cup final and a world cup finals match, millions and millions of Brazilians would have watched those matches, even if only 20 of them remembered Kewell from those encounters im sure its still 20 more than would know the name Bradman.
Midfielder
Guest
Just on the player thing and please correct me if I am wrong ... but each AFL team has 45 players and there are 18 teams so the top AFL players are 810 ... Depending on how numbers are counted the AFL has as I understand it so please correct and adjust if you want... however the AFL has 350, 000 male players ... so 810 divided by 350, 000 is to be a top AFL player i.e in the top 810 you need to be the best player out of every 432 players .... a very reasonable standard ... In Football the top 1, 000 players are the best in 265, 000 and that 2006 number has grown a lot since 2006 in Asia in particular more likely over 300 million today... So when folk say Timmy is no longer in one of the top say 300 clubs in the world ... say Timmy plays in the 500th best club in the world that's 500 * 30 is 15, 000 players out of 265 million or the best out of 17, 666.
Midfielder
Guest
Punter The truth is the 2006 Socceroo team all could have played AFL and would have been some of the best players they ever produced... Tis very sad that when AFL & NRL folk talk they talk about their crowds and numbers they cannot loose on... but refuse often to accept other numbers that don't suit their arguments. Football had roughly 265 male players in 2006 and most of the 2006 team played in the say the top 200 teams in the world or say the top 6, 000 players with some like Harry Kwell considered one of the best five left sided players in the world... Compare being in the top 6 thousand in 265 million to being in say the top 800 in say 350, 000 AFL players... The assumption that top NRL and AFL players could walk into most top Football clubs if they had chosen Football staggers me ... Just on Harry at 15 he was I think the NSW 400 meter champion and came second in the 200 meters it was not only Football that wanted his talent... Rugby today is suffering from junior talent, league and AFL less so, but huge nay massive trend of yester days that our top players all leave to other codes is coming very quickly to an end... as I said Rugby is feeling the pinch now ... however the Andrew and Matthew Johns of today are more likely to stay in Football ...
punter
Guest
Steve, the point could also be argued that if football was only played in Australia like AFL is, Timmy Cahill & Harry Kewell, would be regarded as the greatest players of their generation if not all time.
ciudadmarron
Guest
It's a fair point Steve. But he's only the second player to do both.
The Minister
Guest
It's about the number of countries, not the number of people. But if you want to play it like that you'd still lose. How many millions of people do you think have heard of Tim Cahill after his cracker of a goal at the WC you reckon? And don't fret, this annoying little Asian Cup thing will be over real soon. ;-)
slane
Guest
So you are saying only somewhere between 1.5 and 2 billion people know who Bradman is. Barely anybody! Of course Cahill is basically a God to the other 5 billion of us though. A guy who averaged 1 goal every 4 games in the EPL and has scored the majority of his international goals against teams who are nobodies is a definite household name throughout the world...
punter
Guest
Scoring against the likes of Collingwood (AFL), India (cricket), NSW (RL) or New Zealand (RU) does?
The Minister
Guest
Sorry about the grammar...it's my second best language out of 3. How many do you speak? I don't know how to reply to this correctly... Ok...Football is global and international football stars are known by all and sundry in football crazy nations from youngsters to old men, whether they play for Brazil,Germany or Australia. Once you have played at a World Cup and made a mark like Kewell and Cahill have, the world knows you. And that's not even mentioning club achievements of players. It's irrelevant of whatever sport is considered to be a county's traditional sport. We have NO ONE in Australia that comes close to having the kind of international profile that Cahill has. Nothing much else to add.
Professor Rosseforp
Guest
The Minister: I hope the time I have spent in other countries has been considerate :-) I agree with you. Cricket is a minority sport and always has been. Likewise squash, tennis and even a lot of swimming, which Australia excelled at because it had a wealth base that allowed it to build pools when places like Uganda could not. I do know that because cricket stats and baseball stats can be compared, many baseball fanatics come across Bradman, and when converted into baseball stats,try to find out a bit more, as his results are pretty impressive. Probably some modern darts players are better known than Bradman. There are probably fantastic wrestlers in Turkey who are national heroes bigger than Tim Cahill is in Australia. I don't know who the top player in China is for table tennis, but you can bet he is more famous than Harry Kewell in China. So we actually agree, but I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on other footballers who are not well known, but who average more than a goal a game.
The Minister
Guest
You're flogging a dead horse with the Bradman thing there Prof. Just stop now. OK.... 1. Rule out continental Europe, South America, Central America, North America ( sorry not buying your story, finding someone in the states who knows the Don is harder than locating MH370) , Africa (except SA and ZBW), Asia (except the cricket playing nations), Oceania. 2. Rule out everyone in the UK under the age of 30 who takes absolutely no interest in cricket. There's quite a few. And that's just from the sport following percentage of the population. 3.Rule out the black population of South Africa. Can you see where I'm going with this? You're basically left with the cricket tragics in South Asia, the blazer brigade in the UK, a portion of white South Africans and Zimbas and non-migrant Australian and NZ citizens. Just one question Professor... Have you spent any considerate amount of time in other countries apart from Australia and the US?
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
I often feel that aussies cricket fans tend to get defensive when we say we didn't know Bradman. Its not so much the player we didn't know but the cricket game itself. Cricket has no air time whatsoever in most countries, ask a german, a french, Japanese, American, Italian, chinese, Spaniard etc how many players are in a team and 99% wont be able to answer that. You don't get cricket results on marca, l'equipe or the gazzetta dello sport. Nothing to do with Bradman himself, I now know he is a legend and even appreciate the sport that cricket is. Its just that the whole world doesn't follow all commonwealth stuff (cricket, netball, lawn balls etc have no airtime in most countries)