Atlanta Hawks seek to win championship without a superstar

Something else that's happening is the Hawks cooling off.

The '94-95 Rockets are perhaps my favourite team of all-time, but the '94 side weren't any deeper than their Western Conference rivals. With Jordan out of the league, whoever came through the ultra-competitive West could smell an opportunity to win a title. They were lucky the Nuggets stunned the Sonics, who'd knocked Houston out the year before, and obviously we know about their series comebacks over the Suns and Knicks. I love that Rockets side because of its bits and bobs players, but they weren't anywhere as deep as the Celtics, Lakers, Pistons or Bulls dynasties that preceded them. Drexler definitely played an All-Star level, though, I agree with that, and actually they gave him an All-Star berth the following year as well as All-NBA third team honours in '95. Having been an All-Star from '88-94 and again '96-97 it was an anomaly that he wasn't in the game in '95. The Spurs struggled in the '03 playoffs. That was one of the ugliest championship runs in modern times. It wasn't pretty and their depth wasn't that great. Parker and Ginobili had only just entered the league and ther wasn't a Big Three yet.

In the modern NBA, spacing and shooting have become more important than ever, making those extremely valuable qualities. If you happen to be the very best at the qualities now deemed to be the most important, that's makes you a valuable player. You say true stars can contribute in a number of ways, but that's just your definition of a star. There is no set criteria for selecting All Stars teams. This year, Korver has been been extremely valuable to the second best team in the league, and therefore, by various people's definition, a 'star'. Granted, not a traditional star, and in a stronger conference, in a stronger season, he wouldn't make the All Star game. But it is this season, and it is the East. You can question me being an 'expert' all you like, that's fine. But Korver went to the All Star game. It happened. And it happened based of the Eastern Conference coaches selecting him as the next player after Wade got hurt. I'd suggest they know a thing or two about basketball, but I guess you disagree.

So Rodman didn't deserve his All Star selections? Ok then. We'll just leave it there.

The 94 Rockets were favorites in each of their playoff series. They won 58 and were a deep team. The 95 Rockets underachieved during reg. season, but were actually better than the previous year. They added Drexler, who performed at an AS level. Their run in 95 was very impressive, but they were just as good as any other team. Similar to 09-10 Cavs, who led the leagues in wins each year. Mo Williams made 1 AS appearance, but barely. But, they were very deep, including having Varejao, a 2nd team all defense one year coming off the bench. James is flamed out in the playoffs more than anything as to the reason they didn't win at least one title. While Duncan was the only Spurs AS in 2003, they had their core group all there in Parker and Ginobili; and Robinson was still contributing, plus they were a very deep team. Billups may have been the best player on that 04 Pistons team, not Ben; plus Rip/Sheed were at least borderline AS. They had 4 very strong players. The 11 Mavs had a very deep team as well, and several quality contributors to go along with Dirk. However, it was James loafing around in the finals being the main reason why the Heat didn't win. Can't have Jason Terry outplaying you and expect to win. Parker was arguably only the 3rd best Spur at least year. The 14 Spurs had no elite players, but 3 very good players, and Ginobili was still contributing well.

You could say that about anyone. Korver can basically only spotup shoot. He only shoots 8 FGA/game. It's not like he's a Ray Allen or Rip Hamilton running around avoiding defenders and constantly getting great looks as well as both of them being able to create for themselves some. If he could, he'd shoot and score some. It's unfortunate you have "Expert" by your name, Ryan. True stars can contribute in several way to their team's success. Korver can't. But, keep dreaming, I guess.

Actually, if you look back at 20ppg scorers, they are largely the top players in the league, and that along with mpg are the best ways to determine top players by looking at stats. No matter how efficiently Korver is, he still doesn't add that much to his team. He's such a great shooter, but he doesn't shoot enough or more accurately isn't able to shoot enough based on his many limitations. I didn't say carry a team offensively. I said 'carry a team.' Rodman was a weak AS 2x in his career, and not sure if he even deserved those 2. But anyway, he could carry a team at times through his defense and rebounding. You're really dismissing defense entirely? I didn't say bad defense makes you ineligible. Melo is below average defensively, but at times can play very good defense. Korver usually tries defensively, but his lack of athleticism more than anything doesn't allow him to play good defense. He just can't. Melo brings many more things to the table than Korver does as well. Melo rebounds better, is at least somewhat of a playmaker, and is a great scorer. He can carry his team a lot of the time on his own, which Korver has never shown at any point of his career. It's only nice to see someone who actually deserves to be an AS actually be an AS. Korver and the Hawks are a good story, nothing more right now.

The '78 Bullets and '79 Sonics only really got their championships because of Bill Walton's injuries. In '77-78, Portland were 50-10 before Walton went down. Even in a decade of parity like the 70s, a healthy Walton would have created a Portland dynasty, IMO.

No matter how good Barry was, he was the only All-Star the Warriors had that year. The only other times that's happened were the Bullets in '78 (Elvin Hayes), the Rockets in '94-95 (Olajuwon), the Spurs in '03 (Duncan), the Pistons in '04 (Wallace) and the Mavericks in '11 (Nowitzki) and the Spurs last year (Parker.) Most NBA titles are won by teams with All-Star duos (and in some cases trios.) The Bullets losing in 1975 was one of the biggest chokes in NBA history. They were dismantled by the Warriors -- out hustled and out rebounded. Wilkes did a number on Hayes. The Bullets couldn't get out on the break. That choke tag stuck with the Bullets for years. How they lost to the Warriors is mystifying when they defeated the Celtics in the ECF, who were the reigning champs and had won 60 games. And the Bullets had three All-Stars that year -- Hayes, Unseld and Phil Chenier!

My first basketball memory is the Memorial Day Massacre!

Johnson was the second leading scorer on the Celtics in the 1984 NBA Finals w/ 17.6 ppg. That jumped to 21.5 ppg when they made the switch to DJ on Magic midway through the series. I know Bird says DJ was the best guy he ever played with and the only guy as competitive about winning. Larry was the clear MVP of that series, but DJ was a redemption story as he'd gone through a career slump in Phoenix and was dogged by drug rumours. It was also revenge for losing to LA in the 1980 WCF. I have most of the '84 series on tape. Maybe the height of 80s basketball. BTW, I meant to say All-NBA defence in the above post.

"Korver is pretty much worthless if his man stays on him." That might be the stupidest (basketball-related) thing I've ever heard. That is actually WHAT makes Korver valuable!

"Nobody is taking Korver over Rose this season." That's a fairly definitive statement. Have you spoken to every single human being on the planet, have you? "Now if Korver could actually average 20ppg." Ah yes, the '20 old points per game means you're a good player" theory. Sadly, it's a little outdated. "Every legit AS can carry a team at least for a few games." That's YOUR personal definition of an All Star, not some set-in-stone criteria for selection. And define 'carrying'? Could Dennis Rodman carry a team offensively? No way. Does that mean he doesn't deserve his All Star selections? " . . . His defense is awful, (he's) very unathletic . . ." His D ain't great, I'll give you that. But he's a pretty good team defender. And if being a bad defender makes you ineligible, then how come Melo has gone to the All Star game 8 times? As for being un-athletic, what the hell does that have to do with anything? As for the difference between Korrver this season and last, let's start with 3pt fg% shall we? He's up a full 5% on last year. That's more than a significant raise. His True Shooting Percentage? Up a staggering 8%. He's been better this year. The Hawks success isn't solely because of him, but he's been a large part of it. I'm a fan of rewarding winning basketball, considering that's the reason they play the game. That doesn't mean every Hawk should make the All Star team, but in a weak conference in a weak year, it's been nice to see an intelligent, non-traditional star get a nod. His selection has been a perfect storm of mitigating factors, and he therefore made the team this season, and he deserves it.

Mostly true, Joe. Hard to really see ATL doing much come playoff time. The 04 Pistons may not have had any top 20 players, though Ben probably was. However, Ben could take over defensively. Billups could take over offensively at times, as could Sheed. This isn't really the case with this year's Hawks. And Korver is pretty much worthless if his man stays on him, and even if not, he's not kiling the opposition. Opposing defenses can live with his 12.7ppg as a 4th option even if he's shooting amazing. Through 54 games, the Hawks are great, though. They're 43-11, 2nd best record in the league. As far as closing out the season and what happens in the playoffs remains to be seen.

This season, not the future. Nobody is taking Korver over Rose this season even. Offensive rating, win shares, etc. can't actually tell you who's better. Korver might be good, but 3rd best offensive player in the game? That should tell you all you need to know about that stat. And Boozer was a top 5 defensive player with the bulls according to at least one defensive advanced stat. Now if Korver could actually average 20ppg, we'd have something to talk about, but he's not even close to that. Interesting how you didn't respond to any of the differences from last year to this year. Korver led the league in shooting last year, too. Yet nobody could care about that. Every legit AS can carry a team at least for a few games, and Korver can't even remotely do this. His defense is awful, is very unathletic, and can't help out his team in any other area other than shooting, which he relies almost 100% on his teammates to set him up. I definitely wouldn't go with this guy, you got that straight. The Hawks are a good story so far, that's it. They've never really been a great team, and now they somehow are so far this season. They've somehow figured out how to play great team ball through 50-55 games, but that doesn't necessarily mean their top players are suddenly better players. Again, time will tell. If Korver is truly an AS like you say, then ATL should make the finals at worst.

Using Atlanta Hawks & great in the same sentence is laughable.It diminishes the use of "great" which I see a lot on this forum when referring to teams & certain players who are good but not great. In NBA terms the Spurs have been great,Kobe is an all time great,etc,etc. The Atlanta Hawks are not great.They're a solid team who has won absolutely nothing & dont have even a top 20 player on its roster. So lets ease up on the "great" reference when talking about average teams & players

If I was a GM, I'd take Rose over Korver. But that's not the question. We're not building an NBA roster, we're picking this season's All Stars. And considering Rose's knee injuries, and the new age importance of three point shooting and spacing, I dare say the odd GM actually may take Korver. But cool, let's agree to disagree. I'll go with the guy that actually DID end up making the All Star team, is having a historic shooting season, is third in the league (and first among perimeter players) in offensive rating, and plays on the team with the second best record. You, won't.

Yeah, I thought they were sharing their minutes pretty well...they're surprisingly deep. Anyway, trying to figure out what just happened at this trade deadline...38 players traded!?!?!?

True to an extent. They still only won 48 games. They were a worse team than the 04 Pistons or 79 Sonics, at least on paper. The 75 Warriors are still a bizarre title team. I'd rather have 3 AS-caliber player like 79 Sonics rather than just 1 superstar like the 75 Warriors, depending on how good the role players are on each team. And Ben Wallace made 2nd team all-nba in 04. He's at least a borderline top 10 player that year. He made 3 2nd teams and 2 3rd team from 02-06, so he wasn't just a flash in the pan.

Well, go ahead and disagree about Korver then. He's never been close to great, and he's not going to suddenly be great at age 33. Korver shot ridiculously well in 2014, and the Hawks finished with 38 wins. The main differences this year is Horford is playing the entire season and Schroder has improved a lot. Actually, on paper, the 2014 Hawks look better. Still defies logic that they're doing this well this year. Nobody was clamoring about Korver being an AS last year. Why? Because his team wasn't that good and he was obviously wasn't/isn't a star. His teammates have picked it up this year, only reason. Nobody really believes a 12.7ppg full-out role players is a #1 option. Millsap was just as good if not better before ATL. Horford made 2 AS team before playing Korver, and now just made his 3rd AS this year(1st in 3 seasons with Korver). So no, Korver isn't making his teammates better. If anything, it's vice versa. Yes, it's teamwork. Individually, none of them are great. Collectively, at least so far, they are. But, hard to see that lasting throughout the playoffs. Wait, you're saying Rose is putrid on D, and implying Korver isn't? There isn't a GM in the league who would take Korver over Rose. You're actually serious about that one? Time will tell. If Korver is truly an AS, and the Hawks truly have 4, then there's no excuse for them not making the finals at the very worse.