England is no longer a sporting superpower - and that sucks

...and rowing

Agreed Chris. This post was designed to antagonise the English and was born out of the perennial Aussie chip on shoulder that we have come to know and love. You don't really see equivalent posts on British websites. Mainly because, in the grand scheme of things we have bigger sporting rivals than Australia. I'm looking forward to the Rio Olympics as I think Russia will try to claim third spot back off us but may be hampered by the athletics doping bans. I wonder if the Aussies can improve on their tenth place in London and beat Yorksire this time? I'm a Scot but support GBR at the Olympics. In the per capita argument us Scots beat the Aussies hands down in London and actually equalled their gold medal total. If the one competitor per event was removed from the track cycling I believe Hoy would have won us another gold over Jason kenny. The Aussies can't use the African imports excuse with us.

It's great that England is not only defined by it's success in sport You only have to watch annual award ceremonies like the Oscars, Grammys etc etc to see that our talents are spread across multiple areas Saying that, i'm pretty proud of our sporting success in recent years. From Ashes victories, Twenty20 World Cups (clearly the most dominant short form of the game), Tour de France victories, F1 champs, golf, athletics, track cycling and fantastic performances by English athletes at the Commonwealth Games and Olympics Things have been great all round i'd say :) Probably explains the bitterness in some of the posters on here!

Agree Taylorman English Rugby has always been quite dour...shame they didn't have all the League clubs involved.

Yes I did watch it, and the French one. Yeah wasn't flash and another multiple of three 6N match. Picked England but neither were convincing. Jones said they'd play to England's strengths and he picked a rather unchanged side. Perhaps he wants to see them do what they do under his coaching before he makes changes to anything. He also said he's learnt in the 6N, every match is important. (Not sure how that differs from say the ABs who are the same). Jones is still the key for them, a wins a win, where many were picking Scotland. Vunipola was good and if they can get go forward ball like that in the other positions...particularly the loosies then they'll be making more ground. Jury's out on Jones so far, but can understand why he's started with the fundamentals...the pack. Scotland just always seem to play well enough to win, but just don't have that edge to secure it when they need to. Thought Italy were going to top France as well. That was a bit dour as well but the ball moved a bit more quickly at least. Early days, and waiting on NZ to have their Sevens points stripped. Blmn idiots.

O.K. Taylorman you've made your point so let's see how many medal winners from team G.B. are English and that will probably give everyone a fairer idea if England by itself is moving ahead of Oz. after Rio. Just to change the subject have you seen the Scotland vs England game? if you haven't don't bother it was like watching paint dry. England scored a nice try and to be fair to Eddy he's only had them 2 weeks but it was not a spectacle.

Plus the original thread was more about England, and not necessarily the UK, or the Olympics, something you've conveniently drifted the concpversation towards. So Rio won't really prove anything in terms of the article.

Oh I think the Uk will be ahead of Aus at Rio, by some distance. The events support that. I'm not up with oz Olympic events but I don't know of any track or field athlete that is now a gold chance, let alone certainty. I might get bombed on that but I don't think I'm far off. So with track and field out, and with the U.K. with Some World best athletes, that's enough for Oz to conceded the tally count. Swimming I think there will be the usual battles with the US leading and the rest fighting out nine or ten golds or so, oz usually pretty good there. Cycling I think will the UK will be pegged back by both Oz and NZ a little and I think they'll be less dominant this year. Boxing looks strong and I don't see England winning many team events...sevens, Hockey, Football etc. So I agree, UK to head Oz at Rio, again as I said, the individual events cater to their strengths, and it's neutral territory. I'm not sure the English alone component will head them in general, if they can be isolated, but they might.

Well Taylorman we could go around this subject all day. However the proof as they say is in the pudding. It's the Rio Olympics in the summer and I'm quietly confident we'll finish in front of Oz once again in medals maybe even by a significant distance. Shall we have a quiet gentlemens bet on this? By the way your spot on in terms of New Zealand improving right across the board in sport.

Geography is everything when it comes to both the Olympics and Commonwealth games. The medal tally counts support that substantially, particularly amongst the usual top 5 or 6. When one of them hosts they have a significantly better tally that when they don't, regardless of anything else. Yes I agree the UK is putting out better in athletics. My opinion is that the UK climate and therefore tendency supports individual events that are clearly defined, and can be for a major part of the event trained indoors or have a large gym component,which most track, field, cycling, boxing and swimming events do. The oz climate supports anything and everything but I think there's a greater tendency towards team events, the social interaction in the outdoors more fulfilling. That's certainly the way in NZ. We have our one offs...Ko and Danny Lee I think are leading or near it their respective PGA events this morning, Nick Willis won Olympic silver in the blue ribbon event, Valerie Adams dominated Shotput for some time etc but they're isolated individuals and each has no one near them. But rugby, League, a Netball dominate our sporting scene, the team concept strong within our culture. I think it's as simple as that fir the UK. To be a great sporting competitor, an individual is more likely to excel in more consistent conditions...and in the UK, that is inside. I think over time many get put off having to plain in rain, snow, have matches postponed for weather etc and opt for indoor type sports. Weather in the UK puts regular dampeners on sports like League, Football, Union

I don't think geography is much of an issue anymore. To be fair to G.B. they did come ahead of Australia in the medal count in Beijing. Judging by the recent athletics world championships the trend of England and the the rest of the U.K. improving and moving further in front of Australia is not going to end anytime soon. It's not geography that's the over riding factor it's the level of funding Britain puts into it's sports people which it didn't do for decades. In terms of the different nations they all come through the same system. Take for example the amateur boxing in the Commonwealth games recently. A lot of the guys who ended up fighting each other where competing with their own sparring partners but where separated for the Commonwealth Games by nationality.

Yeah but even then here's we you get very selective. 2014 was in Glasgow, a train ride for most UK competitors if they had to. 2010, a neutral venue had Australia destroying The UK using your words. In fact they destroyed the Four UK combined more than England did in 2010 at least in terms of golds. You'd hardly expect the medal count to be more when you have three other countries combining for the minor medals in most of the same events. And when Oz last hosted it in 2006 destroyed is not the word. Aus left the UK in the dirt on all counts. It's explained not by a recent thing, but a geographical thing. If the games are held this way, the count is higher, same but not as substantially, when it's in the UK.

Taylorman I get where your coming from but let's be honest it was never an issue for the previous 100 yrs when for a lot of that time Australia where belting Great Britain out of sight in sport. I suspect a lot of this type of comment is nothing more than green eyed envy over Great Britain's achievements in the last decade or so. Your right about the Commonwealth Games but England alone absolutely destroyed Australia in the medal count last time around. I'm not sure and I may be wrong but some of the other countries within the British isles may have even got more medals than Australia. Right now a team G.B. in the Commonwealth Games would be disastrous and merely make it a Great Britain medal parade. I for one would absolutely hate that!

Non English entity...

Wardads question was a simple one. Why do they not compete individually? The fact that they always have isn't a sufficient answer because that can always be changed. They compete individually during the Commonwealth games so it's not as if it's an alien concept. As Wardad says it's as if the Olympics are too 'hard' to compete individually and by competing together the impression is a higher count on the medal table. The Lions is a separate and unique concept. The Olympics is specifically a competition between individual nations. Does anyone else 'combine' in the way the UK does? And you keep referring to England and the U.K. Having a stronger presence than Oz in sport. Why do you lend on or refer to the UK? England alone has twice as many people as oz so why do you need to include a non UK entity? Is it perhaps that they cover off a much wider level of success, or that you feel you're 'allowed' to because they're lumped together in the Olympics? I mean is England a country or not?

All due respect mate that last statement about the English having their own achievements when representing Great Britain and the Welsh achievements being British when representing Great Britain is neither correct or factually true. For example during the last British and Irish Lions tour down under the Welsh contribution was massive! The Welsh nation who I respect and admire ( I also have a Welsh great grandmother) was rightly proud of this. The other nations including England where also proud of this and proud for Wales. Lets be clear I'm a Liverpudlian, I'm also English, I'm also British I don't find this in any way contradictory just in the same way if you where part of the Roman Empire no matter which part you where from you where a Roman citizen! We represent our individual nations in the Commonwealth Games and as Great Britain at some other things. I find it confusing that Australians with British heritage don't get it! It's as if your in denial about where you came from mate! Have a look at some of my other comments in this debate I've had with Puff and Taylorman. It just might open your eyes a little bit wider.

I know its always been 'Great Britain" .But you seem to be confused as to a coherent answer. Not as witty as you think by half... Seems to me like padding the medal count is what its about these days .

Golf? In recent times Australia has had Jason Day as World number 1 for 4 weeks and Adam Scott as World number 1 for 11 weeks. England has had Lee Westwood as World Number 1 for 22 weeks and Luke Donald as World Number 1 for 56 weeks. In addition Justin Rose won the US Open a couple of years back and golfers like Paul Casey, Ian Poulter, Danny Willett and others are constantly hanging around the top 20 or so.

Yea all good Peter, Puff too much going on to get carried away. I get a bit bored of those same old colonial discussions anyway. I quite enjoy a lot of English sport. Ronnie OSullivans a favourite of mine, for me as close to sporting perfection as it gets. I've admired the cyclists when they dominated and despite his skeletal frame Mo Farah is one of the toughest finishers I've seen in track. It's just the rugby I can't understand. Take away the coming together of several great players at once in the 2003 side and England rugby really is poor. Their greatest ever back is who? Johnny Wilko. Then who? It's such a long drop to any really great player from the 9-15 jerseys. Duckham? Jason Robinson? Carling? Greenwood? Which back other than Wilko would get near a best list? Theyve just never played a style worth watching. Even 2003 was rather dour when they were beating the SH sides. Kick, kick kick.penalty, penalty... They need a serious injection of flavour into their game. Maybe Jones can bring that. I'm hoping they show a bit more flair tomorrow.

Taylorman, about to enjoy a few 7’s matches, good luck, we have a great women’s team but the Thunderbolts are work in progress. With Peter, I completely lost direction and transgressed away from sport, which was poor form. For me rugby is the breakfast of champions which was very much an English invention. Perhaps we all need to be more humble and pay homage to the English private school system.