I have to apologise in advance for cracking and putting pen to paper on the subject of Jarryd Hayne. I’d understand if my car was egged by irate citizens.
Clearly we both believe that the subject doesn’t need any more airtime.
The community at large certainly appears to share that view. The sentiment was hilariously captured by “Dyl Anderson” who opined on Facebook… “Sick of hearing about this bloke – just pick a sport and play it ya flog”. Yep.
In addition, I’ve been having a running Hayne-debate for some five days with a friend (who can at least lay claim to some expertise, having played both senior league and representative union in his youth), so believe me, I have as much Hayne-fatigue as anyone.
My mate and I represent the two audiences of the Hayne story – the side that feels a growing sense of unease at Hayne’s presumption that for his next trick, he might just duck out and pick up an Olympic medal – and those who couldn’t care less and are willing him to succeed. The second camp are motivated in part because it would give a whiff of substance to the outdated but cherished idea among league supporters that league players are inherently superior athletes.
Whatever your position on that spectrum, it can’t be ignored that if Jarryd Hayne wasn’t Jarryd Hayne and was perhaps, say, an anonymous player that we’ll call Joni Vulagi, then he would have gone completely unnoticed at the London Sevens. Except of course for perhaps being critiqued by commentators for some loose offloads, generally untidy work at the ruck and tackle, and the concession of a couple of ham-fisted penalties.
Expert sevens watchers would have immediately picked Joni Vulagi as one of the most likely players to be cut by Fiji coach Ben Ryan before the Rio Olympics, because he wasn’t very good. Unfortunately Joni Vulagi isn’t a global sporting oddity copping miles of column inches. Jarryd Hayne is.
It is this fractured perception which has urgers and sports channels celebrating Hayne’s chase and ankle tap against France, while the bemused realists wrestled with the uncomfortable observation that it was Hayne’s own mistake in not tying up the ball at the previous tackle when the referee called “maul”, that meant he had to make the chase in the first place, instead of Fiji getting a scrum.
My Hayne-fan mate airily dismissed this plain truth in much the same way that a Trump voter dismisses the cost of the US/Mexico wall. “He’ll learn” he said “Sevens isn’t that complicated”. Neither is the presidency apparently.
The “he’ll-learn” response brings to mind the fantastic scene out of Moneyball when Billy Beane and Ron Washington go to sign baseballer Scott Hatteberg to a new contract at his house.
Sitting in his loungeroom, catcher Hatteberg is taken aback when Beane tells him they want him at first base. Hatteberg has never played first base. Beane makes light of it, saying “It’s not that hard Scott. Tell him Wash”.
Washington looks at Hatteberg and says bluntly, “It’s incredibly hard”.
So is sevens.
Hayne is an amazing athlete, no doubt, but even if we disregard the fact that pretty much every sevens team has a Hayne, and some have two or three, we must realise that it isn’t a lack of athleticism which gets him into trouble, and so a surfeit of athleticism won’t get him out of it.
Hayne has three obvious problems in sevens.
The first is his awkward shape in the tackle both as tackler and tacklee. When being tackled, he struggles to protect the ball effectively without blatantly lying on it or hanging on on the ground. It is the first time he has ever played a game where there is a continuous contest for the ball and it shows. As a result, he prefers to offload and not get caught, but since he hasn’t yet learned when to go into contact, his offloads are sketchy.
As the tackler, the only thing he appears to be sure of is that he can hold the player as long as he wants when they’re both standing up. Once the play goes to ground it’s a lottery because the laws are complex and the interpretations and instincts can’t be learned in a few weeks. His dive over the ruck to flop on a ball at the Australian side was an elementary error, as was his penalty for not releasing the tackled player. These errors won’t get any better under fatigue and pressure.
Hayne’s second problem is partly fitness related and partly just a lack of game savvy, and it is that he plays very flat at the gain line. Sevens is akin to soccer in the sense that it is often played backwards. Watch a game and look at how often the play will regress fifteen or twenty metres before starting forward again. Experienced sevens players know that a large part of their many kilometres of running is just working back onside to stay in the game.
Playing flat, as Hayne does, means that the ball easily gets behind him and he is then out of the game until he regains his depth. A sevens player can’t be reactive here. They need to anticipate the need for depth, so that they can be there before the play unfolds. Chasing depth and chasing the game as Hayne has done so far is tiring and ineffective.
Finally, in a game with a continuous contest for the ball and with scarce support resources, decisions on when to attack the line are critical. A player taking a ball into contact without breaking the line immediately puts pressure on his team to drive into the ruck to support him, or risk a turnover. Obviously, the more players in the ruck, the less there are to attack, or defend in the event that the ball is lost.
There are several examples, but against Wales, Hayne elected to take on three defenders in a jinking run into traffic resulting in a loose offload, when he would have been better looking to pass to space. Against France, he looped flat around his own player and allowed an intercept, when a more experienced player would have passed and then dropped into the pocket to take a safe pass and restart play away from the sideline.
These are all moments, fleeting seconds that escape the casual observer, but that nonetheless determine matches, especially tight ones against top sides at one-chance knockouts like the Olympics.
Hayne will learn of course, but he has no time. No time to learn the subtleties, and no time to get to the fitness levels required. Fitness is as much about rest as it is about work, and the extremes of workload that Hayne will need to go through to get to parity with the rest of the squad, will risk injury and breakdown.
Sonny Bill Williams, himself a full-time sevens player with the New Zealand sevens team said of sevens fitness training “I thought my days in rugby league were tough. But the first day here we did a beep test followed by an hour or more of fitness games and running. In league we didn’t do much after a beep test. Here I couldn’t get out of a jog after 20 minutes.”
As a final thought, I can’t escape the lack of respect that permeates the whole Hayne approach. So very Gen-Y of him, to just turn up and do what he wants to do. It’s one thing to ignore the naysayers when you’re chasing a genuine dream. It’s another to ignore pretty much everyone as you jump the shark deep into narcissism.
Anyway, whatever. I’m at peak-Hayne. Just pick a sport and play it ya flog.
mikeT
Guest
Ok so league players aren't superior 'rugby players' then? Good. Glad we sorted that out...
Fboy
Guest
Soapit you do know that Teo was named in a kangaroos squad but not a test side don't you? Whereas he clearly would never make the all blacks thus declaring his eligibility for the 4th best side in rugby union (ranked 8 or 9 prior to 6n)
Fboy
Guest
Interesting soapit so we should exclude test league beyond three nations as a test of superior athletes. So given your test of superior athleticism is based on caps at the top level does this mean that quade cooper is the equal of Darren Lockyer and better than Thurston for example? IE are you beginning to understand the absolute limitations of test rugby league given the game is so small that very few caps are given?
ClarkeG
Guest
I'm not saying anything ... except you're placing Robinson ahead of a bunch of quite impressive All Blacks.
soapit
Guest
i think robinson personally was better than the ab options at the time (and made a few notable world xv's through the years so perhaps my subjective assessment is no crazier than yours) but as its pretty irrelevant to the argument (as outlined above) im not going to try and convince you or attempt to meet your demands for other unlikely examples as i doubt many exist. i shouldnt have confused things by offering potential examples in the first place.
mikeT
Guest
Brad thorn played rugby as a youngster in NZ, and arguably would nit be considered the beat lock in the world during his playing days. Jason Robinson was good, but not the best. Cant remember him bettering his AB opposite ever, in fact I remember doug Howlett scorching jim on multiple occasions. So still waiting for the better league "athletes"
soapit
Guest
mike i understand your need to write my argument (backed up facts) off by describing it as that of a league fanboy. however you are wide of the mark. rugby is the game i played and would prefer to watch if made to choose (and assuming good teams are playing). tho i am a longitme follower of league also and am perfectly happy to acknowledge its strengths over the game i played when they are backed up by facts (particularly when it is randomly and unnecessarily alleged that those claimed strengths are not factual - as in this article) the evidence of this strength is in trends of selection. individual comparisons dont really contribute much in testing the claim either way. no doubt there will likely be at least one or two players who will be better than those who cross over. in most cases that was the case in league already before they left (not too many cross over when they are the best in their position) and given the much larger size of the game you would expect even if they were "the best at their peak'" leaguies that there would be at least one or two players in the whole of rugby that could match them in the position having the benefit of match experience. tho i would quibble that there are at least a couple of converts that have made it to the very top brad thorn and jason robinson off the top of my head.
mikeT
Guest
Soapit your a passionate league fan boy and that's ok, but all I can say on this matter is what I have seen with my own eyes and that is the best league players of a generation are not the best in rugby union and are regularly bettered by rugby union counterparts. Sailor and tuqiri v joe rocokoko and sivivatu, christian Cullen . Timana tahu v Tana umaga and/or the SA midfield ,Rodgers v carter, folau v ben smith. Who else is there . I cant think of a league player who has crossed over that is better than their AB opposition or other star rugby players from around the world
soapit
Guest
oh and a straight comparison of 4th vs 4th doesnt really work considering the size of the games does it. plus the test teo played for samoa was in a 9th place playoff in the wc which they won so even if it did work itd have to be 9th vs 4th (scotland are currently 9th in rugby fyi) and dont forget teo was sounded out for the wallabies as well so i wouldnt be too comforted by it regardless
soapit
Guest
make that they all have the necessary connection to the team (edit window closed)
soapit
Guest
generally its not conisdred much of a joke for the nz england and oz in league. there is a clear divide below those team to teams including samoa where they are usually a second option for players who miss out on the other three. i dont care about these things enough to describe it as a joke tho, they all have a connection to the team (ive long been in favour of rugby going back to allowing more than one country to be represented - under circumstances) regardless, its not really about the quality of the game that it payed which is pretty difficult to compare across 2 sports, its more about how difficult it is to be selected in the first place. see the reponses to rebel below for more.
soapit
Guest
jez i obviously lie with cuw on sam's treatment and reasons but has been discussed many times on here. re: teo depends how you define athlete but he i recall him as slightly smaller and more mobile than sam (tho not by much). sam was a backrower/front rower while teo is a backrower who spent some time at centre, so more sbw type (tho offloads not up there with sbw)
soapit
Guest
first you make 2 basic errors. 1. burgess isnt the greatest athlete in league 2. he made enough impact to gain selection for england. after learning two positions. over less than a year. i agree tho that those players wouldnt do well in league at least for a while (tho the backrowers could be arguable and conrads skills should translate theoretically). like any league player coming the other way tho they could take the time to learn and adjust to overcome this. regardless the fact them having an excuse for being able to succeed in only 1 game doesnt really count against the league guys being able to succeed in both.
Fboy
Guest
Soapit, your comparison is flawed to begin with. You base it upon who has made it to the top and I presume by that you mean test caps in either code Last year there were 49 Union test matches between the 6n/4n sides. Rugby league had only 4 tests. If you want to start counting the smaller nation test caps the gap becomes even bigger. With over ten times the number of test caps available of course there will be more opportunities in test match Union. Even ignoring this false comparison you make, Samoa are the 4th ranked league team in the world at the moment. England are 4th ranked in Union. So given Teo has played a league test for Samoa has he not made it to the top of league? Or do you concede test rugby league is a joke? In which case why do you consider it a measure of the quality of the athlete.
timber
Guest
Well using the same flawed logic, how is that the greatest athlete in League today, Sam Burgess, couldn't make an impact in rugby? The reality is that they are different games that suit different athletes and skill sets. Some can excel in the transition because they happen to be better suited to their new sport and some fail because they're not. However as a general rule League does excel in producing a certain type of athlete - explosive, quick over the 1st 10m but not necessarily super fast, around 100kg and powerfully built. This type tends to transition well into rugby's midfield - SBW, Te'o. League does this well because it's a fairly one-dimensional sport and this type makes up 90% of its players. Every League skill set is only a subset of the Rugby skill set which is why every League athlete will find a home in rugby (however limited) but not every Rugby athlete will succeed in League. Guys like McCaw, Pocock, Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock and Conrad would make average League players because what they excelled at in Rugby doesn't exist in League.
soapit
Guest
actually just thought of a way to make things more palatable to you. NZ have 27k senior males in rugby compared to englands 140k. if a player tries for 8 years to become an all black and cant but then moves to england and is picked in his third season for their team (even ignoring the whole learning a new game thing) would you accept that that indicated nz had the better athletes within their system? only fair to warn you tho. although i havent included league in my example based on what has gone before your answer may imply that it is better than rugby in some way.
soapit
Guest
btw just read a little more on it and teo had all of one test for samoa against france in the 9th place playoff after being overlooked for the 'live' group stage games and samoa failing to progress. really cant see this as the best foundation to be building an argument on.
soapit
Guest
second go after inital random moderation: scratch those numbers thats total players all ages sorted now. numbers are 140k male seniors eng rugby vs 50k oz league for “adults” (not clear if this is just mens but seems womens participation is around 5% so factor this in if you like).
soapit
Guest
t\theres been a few pieces where ive eaten the icing edge of the cake but left the rest so this is probably what they meant
soapit
Guest
scratch those numbers thats total players all ages (checked while trying to ignore screaming kids in background in my defence) sorted now. numbers are 140k male seniors eng rugby vs 50k oz league for "adults" (not clear if this is just mens but seems womens participation is around 5% so factor this in if you like).