Maro Itoje injury a blow for Eddie Jones

I genuinely do think it's a big factor - Kvesic or Wallace playing in a pack like Saracens' or Exeter's or even Northampton's would be viewed a lot differently I think, as it is they still manage to put in good performances regularly despite playing on the back foot quite often. I think Wallace has been written off as a bit too small for international rugby rightly or wrongly (it was definitely part of what kept him out of Lancaster's squads), but for me Kvesic has the required physicality and take no prisoners approach Jones seems to like. Either way, with such a long injury list now I don't really see what there is to lose with seeing if one or the other of them is up to international rugby, in fact it makes a lot of sense to me to throw one in and see how they respond. Worst that could happen is that you find out they're not up to it.

wait till OLD GEORGE starts for REDS and screws all other auzzy 7s , LOL then they will want him back in yellow jersey :)

I'll admit to not having seen much of Kvesic for a while and there's every chance that he's improved considerably, but he always struck me as being in the same bracket as Alex Goode, good but not good enough for international rugby. I've always liked Wallace as a player, he's quick, got great hands and gets stuck in as well, mind you, he could do with a bloody good haircut. For me, he offers England more than Clifford does. You mention Gloucester; there's nothing more likely to kill a nascent England career than playing for Gloucester which is weird because between themselves and Hartbury College they've nurtured plenty of young talent, shame really but he might need to move if he wants to play for England.

Always a pleasure Jake, I've missed your rapier wit.

I rate Kvesic and think if he was playing in a more consistent team than Gloucester he'd be in the squad, and you could say the same for Wallace. Wallace in particular is consistently good in a team that are more up and down than a yo-yo and yet barely has barely got a look-in even going back to Lancaster's tenure - a couple of uncapped games are all he's got to show for it I think. Kvesic had an effective cameo against Wales in the tour warm-up match (won a turnover with his first involvement in the game) and was one of the stand-out players on the Saxons tour to South Africa too, just seems odd that Jones would write him off without having a proper look first.

So on the basis of a 3-0 stuffing at the end of a 12 month season for England, how many would you consider the WBs to have, then?

Hi Jake, 3-0 therapy all completed then and you're back for the fray, I see. Excellent. What you find is that players not playing international rugby often win the 'Player of the Year' award in the Aviva as they're always available and not off with their international sides. Smith was praised as much for his professionalism and influence on the younger players as anything else.

Ah, well; that's different. I can't think of a starting flanker in a Kiwi franchise that would struggle to secure an Aviva contract.

Exactly jimmyb. Would have to be less than 15.

If old George Smith was the top flankers in england, then yes, every Super Rugby flanker would get a gig.

‘What is amazing is considering the player base they have so few international standard players..’ Well; they’ve lost the first 4 players in the pecking order for open-side; both starting locks; both starting wingers; and a few others in the reckoning and I’m sure they’ll still put out a 23 of ‘international class’ players, if not as good a side as they could. Doesn’t seem too shabby to me. I presume from your ‘playing base’ comment you also swallow the line about England having ‘2 million’ rugby players or whatever the latest laughable figure someone has produced is. (Sorry if this becomes a replicated comment but for reasons which escape me the original is awaiting 'approval').

shud have said NZ - coz i was talking in the context of OCONNOR :)

'Anyways am sure any Super Rugger starting flanker would be quite good in AVIVA as well.' All 54 of them? Hmmm, not quite so sure about that. If I put my mind to it I could probably even name one or two from an Aussie franchise that might struggle to get a gig in any Aviva team other than perhaps Bristol and Newcastle. Not sure a few months after being creamed 3-0 at home is the time to be bigging up the superhuman qualities of all SR players (other than Kiwi ones), but each to their own.

'What is amazing is considering the player base they have so few international standard players..' Well; they've lost the first 4 players in the pecking order for open-side; both starting locks; both starting wingers; and a few others in the reckoning and I'm sure they'll still put out a 23 of 'international class' players, if not as good a side as they could. Doesn't seem too shabby to me. I presume from your 'playing base' line you also swallow the drivel about England having '2 million' rugby players or whatever the latest laughable figure some idiot has produced is.

Jones would think twice selecting another NZ flank after Harrison debacle :) OConnor scored in the match against Racing. he was ok. Anyways am sure any Super Rugger starting flanker would be quite good in AVIVA as well.

Yes; CUW, O'Connor qualifies, is on form, and has been mentioned. Matt Symonds hasn't, but a couple more lock injuries and I would have thought he must come into the reckoning. Eddies' got some big decisions to make.

Slater's back and by all accounts had a blinder last week against Racing, Dan Carter and all. I think the Atwood-type lock is not one that Jones favours. Atwood himself has said recently he's a bit of a throwback. Personally, I like him as a player, but Jones seems to want to go with mobile locks who can contribute in open play - needs must, though. I was fairly confident that England had a really good chance of sweeping the four internationals. Not so sure now though, especially as there's another week of club rugby to go so who knows if the injury list is complete yet. For example, Saracens and Leicester are going to be kicking lumps out of each other on Saturday.

I'm not sure what makes you think that there's only 15 international class players in England.

Hey Timbo, I thought that Slater was injured. I'm not sure that he'd think that Attwood wasn't good enough, just that as you mention he'd like to involve some of the younger players in and around the England set up. By all accounts Attwood is having a good season and is consistently outshining Ewels. If Attwood was Australian, I reckon he'd have 50 caps already and that's not me trying to have a pop at Australa, it's just that it's an area of strength in the English game at the moment. Attwood's physicality would be very helpful against South Africa IMO. But as you say, it's a big test for Eddie. Personally I'd be happy to win all of these games by a point, but the winning part is important, although some good performances would be nice.

does Brendon OConnor qualify for England? Kitchener may be an option at 2nd row. strange he has not considered Matt Symons - anyone who can go to NZ and play as starting 2nd rower for the champion Chiefs must be good. ( dont forget Haskell rarely played for Highlanders )