This plan to beat the All Blacks is a little old-school but tell me I'm wrong

At the moment Australia doesn't have the same standard of players as the AB's, nor the scrum, the line out, defence and coaching nous but mostly it comes down to the players. If you don't have the cattle you wont be as good but also Hansen and Wayne Smith can't be out coached either. No one at International level has that amount of coaching experience and accrued expertise or level of success, even when compared to previous AB coaches including Ted and shamefully for NZRFU, Fred Allen never got the chance to prove himself over a long period, so i don't rate his his 100% over a much lower number of tests, though he might have been the greatest of them all given the chance.

Yes bakkies exactly my point. End of year, nothing on them matches. In the matches that mattered they beat Oz 6 tries to 1, 4 tries to 1 and 4 tries to 0- far and away ahead of anything England did to them. They also beat Wales 6 tries to 0, 5 to 3 and 5-2, SA, as ide Ireland lost twice to, 6 tries to 1 and 9 tries to 0, Argie 8-0 and 5-2. No one else got close to that sort of standard during the year. Cherry pick all you need to, but if you think the Lions are going to be facing the side that Ireland or France played then you'll be kidding yourself. They wont be strong as a well moulded unit who know eachothers abilities like their own brothers, most of them will be listening to a coach theyre used to despising over the years of the 6N, like Hansen being the coach of a bunch of Aussies and South Africans...Except they'll all be thinking that their own coach is better than he is....doesnt work at short notice.

Nonsense tman you nearly lost to a rag tag directionless French team. There were handling errors galore by the ABs in that match and the French had you rattled. Luckily for you the French execution and decision making cost them the win. Cutting down space, strong kicking game and putting pressure on the scrumhalf is vital for the Lions and they will have a stronger squad to pull it off.

Only problem Bakkies is if you make the mistake of holding up the Chicago match as a way of beating the ABs I think you'll be sadly disappointed. For instance it's not a formula that will be reproducable during the Lions tour where the motivation, planning, selection and execution will be so much more accurate. Even the ABs are allowed an off day so as a template for winning...Chicago is not. The points you make are valid, but they were also rarely seen in any other match in the last few years, again suggesting a one offness to the way it played out. It wasn't a typical AB performance. And that is why NZers were generally able to take the loss so easily. We knew it would be a one off in terms of the result, and so it proved.

Ireland didn't finish off the entries in to the ABs 22. At least two tries were held up it got to within 5 points heading in to the last quarter of the game The patterns were similar in 2013 to Chicago where the tries were finished off in the first half with a big lead built but the difference was the back part of the second half wasn't managed well. Sexton over thought a pen with a dodgy leg, had he kicked it an 8 point lead with minimal time left (Madigan was willing to come on and take the kick) then kicking the ball out with a knock on advantage that led to the ref awarding play on. Ireland, instead of maintaining the ball off the scrum never got the ball back. The ref fessed up to his own mistakes afterwards but rightly that was never covered pillor to post in the press. It was more about the lost opportunity to get the first win against NZ. The ABs sledged the team when the Women beat NZ in their World Cup in Paris (Schmidt was at the match) then the 20s did the same in June. That would of cut to the bone to add further motivation

Bakkies Great summary for Chicago's game.....but, how would you summarise Dublin's game because it seems to me, that the only difference between both games, was the final score. Ireland won all the stats again except, the FT score.

BF And that's Larko's and Cheik's problem.....Either their plans include 6 & 7 roaming outside with the backs or excludes them. Methinks its the latter but those two, wonder around the paddock as though they have licence to do so, instead of concentrating on their key roles, as you suggest......well sometimes they do and unfortunately in Poey's case, the one time he gets himself into a catch/pass scenario, he gives up an intercept and try-sealing win, in the last test. If its sometimes, then they just need to make sure that they pick, the right "sometime".....and become the link to provide an overlap not make an overlap, with a silly pass open to an intercept.

The Irish win in Chicago pointed out a few key things in what teams need to do. France were nearly there but their discipline and decision making fell short. - Ball retention. Ireland played a ball in hand game but it was incredibly accurate 96% ruck accuracy. NZ had more run metres but far less possession particularly in the first twenty minutes. - Discipline. Apart from the Canada match where 9 penalties were conceded trying to break down a stubborn Canada side, Ireland gave away 5 or less penalties in each of the three matches. This prevented the ABs from making easy entries in to Ireland's half. Ireland on the other hand benefited from a rack of penalties early on in the first half which led to easy exits and field position from Sexton's boot. The lineout was efficient enough to retain the ball. Apart from Toner it wasn't a tall lineout with multiple targets. It was simple with no shuffling of players creating moving targets for the thrower. - Breakdown management. This cut down the penalties and the Irish backrow were straight on to Aaron Smith who was either nailed or threw a wild pass to his flyhalf. This nullified Barrett. When Smith was dragged Perenara brought the ABs back in to it against a tiring defence in warm conditions. Schmidt made the changes with strong impact players coming on at the right time then the mistakes came back in to the ABs game. The usually accurate passing in the backs fell apart and coughed up ground. It also gave the wingers very little room. Trimble was immense and accurate with his tackles on Savea. Often driven backwards with low hits that isolated him or in touch. Take note going high or lifting the legs risks a card or just a penalty. These were proper tackles with strong technique. Trimble is not a big unit with broad shoulders either. Savea's decision making fell apart later on pinned in to his own 22 by an accurate kick and chase Savea failed to get boot to ball then was driven in to the ingoal by at least three defenders. It was only a four point game at this stage. The kick came from a scrum option that Ireland took from their own half after a forward pass went in to touch. ABs often counter from their own goal line but the Irish chase was so good cutting out space forcing the attackers to make rash decisions. - Accurate kicking. Ireland often didn't kick it out. Carbery's kick was one of the few play to the corners kicks that went out on the hop. The kicks pinned the ABs towards the touchline with ver little room to run it out. Perfect length was put on it for the chasers to make the hit. - Converting entries in to the ABs 22 in to points. This created a big lead. Sure it was pulled back in a twenty minute period after halftime but the subs made an impact.

The biggest concern is the performance of the Schoolboys and under 20s teams on the pitch and the poor volumes of talent coming through to the pro sides. This has been on going for sometime. There hasn't been a batch of players come through at the same time since Phil Mooney's title winning under 19s side. Those players are now in their late 20s. The current under 20s side have resorted to picking bigger players but the results haven't improved.

Douglas, Simmons and Higginbotham aren't going to cut it. Higginbotham apart from try to meat out justice to Richie has been average at test level

The problem for the Reds is that their tight five is incredibly average. Jury is out on Stiles and his attack coach. It takes a season or two to eradicate MOCBall. Leinster did it by picking youngsters from their system, Reds have gone the other way by recruiting Dad's Army

Wrong Cheika has the players but he won't pick them, preferring his underperforming Waratah pets

You're over thinking it. The problem we have with our attack, is we have our #7 and #6 sea gulling out wide Who's going to win the breakdown? Who's going to get us on the front foot? How can we attack when Cheika's structure doesn't even incorporate basic breakdown management.

Roy you are on the money. Its obvious that to beat the AB.s is simple (old school if you want to call it that.). Notice I said simple . Not easy . All the basics of rugby ie. scrums , lineouts, mauling , defensive patterns and attacking lines need to be executed without flaw. Then the right players need to be selected that can implement the basics to the required standard. As far as fitness is concerned it goes without saying that no one should be selected at international level if they are not at the required levels of conditioning. As far as skills are concerned this is where the All Blacks are ahead of all. They focus on skills from a young age. That is where other countries need to go to match them. Finally and it is becoming blatantly obvious , you need a fine coach to be able to put this all together. Witness how a Joe Schmidt can take Ireland from middle rankers to top side or an Eddie Jones doing huge things with England . I don't even need to mention Steve Hanson . Then to the other extreme how an Alistair Coetzee can coach a great side like the Springboks to mediocrity in less than a year. The role of the coach is clearly becoming more important than ever.

phantom He has not been the best Back in Aus at all this year and to be honest if Cheika wasnt a stubborn Wan..r then Folau should have been dropped or moved to the wing plenty of tests ago. He lacks natural feel for the game and playing him at FB shows him up. Put him on the wing where he has less thinking to do and let him loose. Even LOMU would not have made a FB and he was a far better rugby player than Folau will ever be.

The ABs dont play the Australian way. They play the NZ way. What is the "Australian way" anyway? Ive not seen anything from Cheika that tells me the current team is playing any specific way that could be called "Australian" Running is done by all teams, passing also, kicking also Its called rugby and no country has a monopoly on how its played. Attitude may have more to do with it than any "Aussie way"

Folau is the wallabies best back and needs more ball in promising situations. Wing is not that position.

Ella Lynah larkham yes, the others I think not.

Try for number 2