Two weekends ago, I had the pleasure of joining some of my football (of the round-ball variety) mates for a six-a-side tournament held in Forster-Tuncurry, The Viking Challenge, organised by Great Lakes United Football Club.
Over a round robin stage on the Saturday, groups of four teams competed for places in the graded knockout finals on the Sunday.
My team won our opening two games, but fell 2-nil in the third to finish second in our group.
This meant that we qualified for the B-grade finals on the Sunday, and were out of contention for the significant prize money on offer for the A-grade winners.
On the Sunday morning (after one or two quiet, relaxing, rejuvenating beverages at the local tavern on the Saturday night), we proceeded to play three knockout finals, to make it through to the B-grade grand final.
We fell at the final hurdle, losing 1-nil towards the death. Yours truly had a header cleared off the line that would have put us a goal ahead earlier, and likely won us the game.
But overall, seven games of six-a-side over a weekend away with some mates? Grand final win or not, it was a cracker of a weekend. Great goals, great skills, some terrific saves.
And the attendance was out of this world.
With open men’s and women’s categories, and a masters tournament, about 150 teams had registered and participated. The quality was of a particularly high standard, and the ferocity of the men’s open A-grade final was at a pretty high intensity.
People were there for a variety of reasons. Some were competitive, some for a good time, some had cracked a tinny shortly after sunrise on the Saturday, and not that long after their last from the night before.
From Sydney to Dubbo to Coffs Harbour, all and sundry came along for a great weekend of football, and I played in front of the biggest crowd of my long career in the B-grade grand final.
150 teams, minimum six per side, and including subs, that’s got to be at least 1000 people converging on the Forster-Tuncurry region for football. And that’s just the players.
I am reliably informed that the local publican did quite well from the attending participants.
[latest_videos_strip category=“football” name=“Football”]
It reminded me that it is a fallacy to say that football doesn’t have a strong following in this country.
Being a member of an amateur club that has existed for over a century, a club that at one point provided players to represent Australia, it is also an utter fabrication that Australia does not have a long and distinguished football history.
Whether it is the vast number of storied clubs, or the multitude of participants week-in, week-out playing the game, the World Game has a place in Australia.
The problem, if my limited evidence based upon a weekend in Forster-Tuncurry is anything to go by, is that the game has no apparent Australian identity.
While I would not go as far as to say that each team represented 150 different clubs, I reckon it went pretty close. And that is just in the region of coastal and nearby regional NSW.
I can only imagine the thousands of clubs around the rest of the country (a shout out to my friend and captain of the West Wyalong Metro Shooters – good luck this year!).
My own club, Merewether Advance (established in 1894), was recently involved in a local brouhaha about whether or not our own claim to having existed for over a century was legitimate. Our own heritage was queried, along with others, such is the bare historical authentication available for Australian football clubs.
That equates to a massively diverse, but splintered and fragmented football identity in Australia.
Of more concern is that the above analysis only takes into consideration the regional implications of these clubs. I haven’t factored in the ethnic and international identities of so many clubs.
If any sport in Australia is more representative of the multicultural country we live in, then it is truly football. It is not merely multicultural, but multidimensional.
Football: the split personality of Australian sport
If you could unify that in some way, Australian football would truly be a force to be reckoned with.
Alas, the diversity of football in this country, and how to properly deal with it, is not new ground. In fact, I have had this very argument with a fellow roarer: is the FFA unifying the game, or alienating and discriminating against its own constituents?
I actually don’t have the answer to that. At least, if I thought I did, I do not anymore. Not after my Viking Challenge. Because the reality is that football is the world’s game. However, and truly unfortunately, it is most definitely not Australia’s game.
Honestly, can anyone tell me, what would you even call an Australian style of football?
Ange Postecoglou seems to have an opinion, if his latest book is anything to go by, but that is only his opinion. It is in many ways his ideal that he wants to instil in the Socceroos and Australia in general.
Is Australian football ultimately going to be the Dutch template that FFA is hoping will be grafted onto our domestic structure?
Or is it the British foundations and heritage that created so many of the original clubs, on the back of labourers, miners, and freemen?
What about the migrants from the Mediterranean who flooded Australia after the Second World War, and gave us some of the finest players we have ever seen?
And the most difficult part is that if you manage to successfully work your way through the various ethnic minefields that are Australian football, you then have to find a way to weave together every individual footballer, who each has their own idea about how to play the game, all of whom are adamant their way is the best way.
Sincerely: good luck.
To all the naysayers who would not miss an opportunity to take a crack at football, demanding that Australia has no heritage, no history, and little interest in the game, I say this: if you are going to bag out Australian football, at least do your research, and get your criticism right.
We have the history, we have so much heritage, and we have an overwhelming interest.
The problem is more that what that heritage, history, and interest means is intrinsically different to each individual football enthusiast.
It is a game in this country with a distinct worldview and perspective; an example of the patchwork piecemeal that is world football, within the prism of Australia itself.
But none of those views are necessarily Australian.
Follow Karlo on Twitter @Kdogroars
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Nemesis It's ironic though huh? When this story ran: http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/12/08/ffa-national-audit-reveals-football-participation-boom/ I didn't see anyone stating "NOOOOO, that's rubbish data - you need to rely on an all things to everyone superficial Roy Morgan poll of 0.1% of the population and extrapolate that across the country to get the real picture." You're on the defensive my good sir and making it up on the run. You were more convincing citing Donald Trump. Until you can source for us the Roy Morgan breakdown of data - across states and, as Northerner suggests too - the metro vs regional balance of the data. Australia is such that an imbalance in their data collection for example Sydney vs Melbourne would produce two very, very different views of the country.
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Nemesis "I would attach more credence to Donald Trump statements of fact than AFL HQ, or Cricket HQ participation numbers. AFL were exposed for giving false data to the Leichardt Council a few years ago. " Well bang goes your credibility too. btw - tell us again just what happened around the Leichardt Council - in your words without googling.
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Punter Actually it's tomorrow that the highly anticipated 4th test in India begins. And - in a much friendlier timezone!! The Socceroos - not quite at their best, funny - heard the usual pre game complaints about the pitch - made me think back a couple of weeks when the Melbourne AFLW side travelled to Darwin and defeated the previously unbeaten Crows (stick with me here) in pretty uncomfortably hot and humid conditions - - comment after the game by one of the Melb players was that NO ONE was allowed to mention the weather. It seems to me the Socceroos should heard to Tehran with a rule that NO ONE is allowed to mention the pitch, or weather, or crowd, and - I'd suggest the same re the cricket team in India - although cricket being cricket - there's always so much media speculation about the 5 dayability of any pitch.
punter
Guest
Perry, must be excited now, Australia's premier national side the Socceroos about to kick off in less the 2 hours, the team that unites us all. No need for for angry pills.
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Post Hoc Seems you're only offering the last word. Hoping for your sake you get off those angry pills sometime soon.
Post_hoc
Guest
Perry pull your head in, actually just leave, you offer nothing to this tab.
northerner
Guest
"And, as any statistician knows, if there are errors in the methodology then this will be a systematic error that affects all the sports." Actually, that's incorrect. It depends on the nature of the methodological error. Not all parts of Australia have the same interests or patterns of activity, or sporting preferences. So, for example, if the methodology relies disproportionately on data from the major cities and is underweighted for regional and rural Australia, the results may well exaggerate sports popular among urban populations and underestimate those favoured by regional populations. That is precisely the problem with OzTam and everyone knows it.
Nemesis
Guest
@Perry Bridge 1) Yes, I'll believe independent expert statisticians whose core function is gathering data & analysing data and they've got no self-interest in the result 2) No, I won't believe the accuracy of data published by self-interested organisations 3) I'm not a statistician, so I cannot comment on the methodology used by Roy Morgan, but I can use common sense to understand the methodology is the same for all the sports. Let's take OzTAM. Even if I dispute the actual data provided by OzTAM, even if I dispute the methodology I will not dispute the relative data OzTAM collects for the 3 commercial networks. So if - Sport 1 rates "A"on any of the 3 commercial networks and - Sport 2 rates "7x A" on any of the 3 commercial networks I'm happy to concede Sport 2 pulls 7x the number of viewers compared to Sport 1. Same data sample. Same methodology. Same commercial networks.
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Nemesis You said "I do not pay attention to any numbers from sports bodies unless they are audited registration numbers of people playing sports for registered clubs." Okay - so, you'll only believe these numbers - but only when they are the official FFA numbers (because the other codes lie) - and even then - you'll over rule the official FFA numbers in preference of the survey stats (by reputable or otherwise organisations) that tap into less then 0.1% of the population. You do realise you've just become a poor facsimile of yourself!!! For the record - The Birchgrove Oval story was a largely a beat up and part of the anti-AFL agenda in the biased media at the time (Daily Telegraph in general and Roy Masters-SMH specifically).
clipper
Guest
I agree, although it would be easier to build there, but no train link and as you say bit to far north east. Could also see there is a plan for a cricket / AFL field - didn't think there would be that much demand for AFL there, may have been a bit of lobbying.
Nemesis
Guest
@PerryBridge I do not pay attention to any numbers from sports bodies unless they are audited registration numbers of people playing sports for registered clubs. I don't care how many show bags AFL hand out to kids. They're not playing organised sport at a registered club. The Roy Morgan Data & the AUS Sport Data are compiled by independent bodies who make a living from gathering & analysing data. The data spun out of AFL & Cricket HQ is proven to be totally false & this is not unusual, the AFL was exposed by Leichardt Council for providing false & grossly inflated participation data. They got caught.
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Punter Stop trying to butt into a conversation not involving you.
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Nemesis I query to you - what do you regard as primary data here? Official numbers from the sports bodies themselves broken down by state, and category of participation. or Survey results based on 0.1% of the population (or less). I'm glad that our democracy is based on a larger sample size. Consider these facts: Effective 'formal' totals: FFA audit - clubs, indoor, school, social, introductory 1,118,911 Cricket Aust - inc clubs, school, introductory, indoor 1,311,184 AFL - inc clubs, school, introductory, social 1,404,176 What is interesting is that cricket claims 393,082 for NSW/ACT. FFA claims 324,601 for NSW. (AFL claims 237,549 for NSW/ACT). Things can vary greatly from state to state - regarding the mix of club/school comp participation vs more 'introductory' programs. But they all count them towards the grand totals. I would suggest that the club/school comp proportion of Soccer in NSW will be far higher than that for 'AFL' which I would imagine is more dominated by 'introductory' programs. I'd imagine we'd agree on that front. Yes/No?? Soccer in NSW (the biggest soccer state - although NSW is proportionally a bigger cricket state) , club/school is about 79% of the total NSW participation. And Vic (the biggest 'AFL' state) club/school comp for AFL is about 69% of total Vic participation. What is interesting is this - I haven't seen David Gallop proclaim being #1 on the back of the FFA official Audit - they only spoke of the 'boom', and increase - womens participation for example grew over 100,000 for the first time (which frankly - surprises me - I thought it would be higher). Ironically David Gallop said “It’s official, we are number one,” on the back of the AusPlay survey. So - Gallop has adopted the #Nemesis approach - backing in a 0.1% national survey ahead of even his own FFA audit numbers. Go figure!! Cricket DID proclaim being #1 in August last year on the back of their numbers. Of course - Gallop responded at that time with the Gemba research (Aug 2015 to July 2016) that proclaimed 9% of people 5-75 played 'football' which comfortably put soccer to #1 with 1.873 participants. Gallop said: “Football relies on independent research that accounts for all sports when confidently declaring it has the highest participation numbers in Australia,” Gallop said. See how it all just gets too ridiculous!!! Because - he's effectively rubbishing his own FFA's audit numbers. So - - #Nemesis, again, tell me - are you basing your position on the back of a survey of 0.1% of the population or on the official sporting body stats including those of the FFA? As for me - I don't really trust any of them. Without the detail - heck, for all we know the RoyMorgan survey might have been 70% Sydney residents. We just don't know the detail.
Nemesis
Guest
I'll repeat, since you seem slow on the uptake, Perry. You can criticise the methodology as much as you want. But, the same methodology was used for ALL SPORTS. So, whatever figure you come up with for AFL participants, multiply that figure by 2.4 and you'll have the Football participants. Whatever figure you come up with for cricket participants, multiply that figure by 1.6 and you'll have the Football participants. Blue Chip organisations & the financial markets hold Roy Morgan as one of Australia's best market research companies, so I doubt anyone cares what people on The Roar think of the quality of their work..
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Nemesis "Regardless you don’t have to believe the absolute figure quoted by Roy Morgan." And I don't on face value. Cricket as an example - 14+ indication of 418,000 down to 377,000. Last year CA announced total participation of 1,311,184 for 2015/16 season. But, 60% aged 5-12. Leaves 524k. However - the total is made up of 675k schools - probably the age profile of that will see a higher than 60% in 5-12 range. For the RM survey - how many of the 455k club cricketers fall outside the age range? Club and community proclaims 144k from milo/T20 blast to jnrs to U12 - so that leaves 311k. Remove the U14s and I'd expect we'd be pushing down under 300k quite comfortably. So, the RM 377k number looks 'overs' to me (pardon the cricketing pun) - but a major thing we don't know is was indoor cricket counted. Are we talking about an over 14 age range cut of a 635k combined indoor/outdoor cricket tally? If so - then 635k - 144k puts the tally at 491k before 12+ U/14s from outdoor and U14s in total from indoor are removed. Confused yet? It simply means - no idea how to interpret the numbers. We just don't know - not enough information. And you can't tell me whether Roy Morgan has included indoor/outdoor cricket together, or indoor/outdoor soccer together. If you can't tell me that then I'm taking the RM survey with a massive grain of salt. Let alone we don't have a state by state breakdown of the data. You've chosen an interpretation that suits your narrative. I'm not adopting any interpretation without more information. Perhaps that's the difference between you and I. I'm dubious about all numbers - you have blind faith in soccer (good luck on that - it's not as if the combined forces of FIFA and the FFA give anyone reason for doubt!!!).
Nemesis
Guest
Middy, I don't know this area at all but, regardless, it's massive news. As I mentioned in a previous discussion, the early reports are the FFA's expansion criteria will include a term that requires clubs to play in rectangular stadiums of appropriate size for their supporter base. Of course, there will be minimum requirements in terms of: seating, lighting, amenities but the focus is on ALeague clubs managing their own boutique stadiums in the suburbs. This criterion will extend to existing ALeague clubs who will be required to comply within a set time frame - probably 3-5 years. Won't impact most clubs other than: SydFC, Brisbane, NIX. Victory's use of Docklands for marquee matches will probably be deemed appropriate since it can be reconfigured to a rectangular area but, most Victory fans would be happy to see the club never play at Docklands.
Post_hoc
Guest
Agree, one twitter this morning, reading some guy trying to claim how the downturn in Rugby and League means they are flowing towards AFL, It is a grand delusion they seem to suffer from
punter
Guest
Perry, As Jack Johnston says, 'please ignore the next line because they are directed at you'. Please go ahead & discuss with Northerner & Paul2 all you want on the AFL tab. Seriously, you won't be missed.
Perry Bridge
Guest
#Post Hoc I never mentioned 'AFL'. This was as close as I got and you took exception with it but in an abusive manner without offering any clear counter. “perhaps there was a ‘lag’ as both Rugby and earlier still Australian (rules) Football had established prior to the immigration of the ‘Association’ game. ” I will suggest this - through the 1880s as the first real signs of Association Football getting 'established' (i.e. clubs rather than 1 off games) - it is clear from the history, the time lines, the papers of the day - that in what might now be termed the 'AFL' states that the Australian game of football was pretty well 'established' - and to a lesser extent the imported game of Rugby had by far a firmer footing around Sydney by contrast to the 'Association' game. I really don't know why you'd be arguing this. But you didn't really argue - you just ranted: "I do find it very strange Perry that you accuse others of not knowing History when it appears you don’t have a clue." And that's where I have no respect for you. On the evidence in here I'd much rather a chat with Paul2 and Northerner. The irony is Punter and Nemesis have joined to jump down their throats too!!
Post_hoc
Guest
Mid, I know where it is, besides going to the Fairfield markets as a kid, and then countless Octoberfests as a teen, I even went to see the trots there once or twice. My school used to walk past it during walkathons. I even seem to remember riding my bike around there because a mate had a thing for girl that lived near there and wanted to catch her eye. It is still a bit of a hike over to Elizabeth drive which is the boundary between the two great states of Fairfield and Liverpool. Don't get me wrong, I think a 10-15k stadium would be great, but I think it is a little too far north east. It would be right on the very edge of that growth area.