Why All Black fans should be worried about the Wallabies’ and Springboks’ woes

wre01 Roar Guru

By wre01, wre01 is a Roar Guru

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    Too many Kiwis seem to be basking in the downfall of Australian and South African rugby.

    Social media is plastered with New Zealanders celebrating as union in Australia and South Africa tears itself apart. Admittedly social media trends aren’t always that well informed but it is a representation of broad public opinion nevertheless.

    There are gleeful declarations that NPC sides are stronger than the Australian provinces. Then there are the protestations that all five New Zealand Super Rugby sides should be finalists this year.

    After all, those five sides routinely beat Australian and South African competition for that matter. It’s as simple as that, isn’t it?

    And it is not just the cesspit of social media clickbait either. The New Zealand Herald has already started a campaign of excuses should Johannesburg’s Lions, a hell of a team deserving of praise in every respect, win the competition.

    Everybody knows New Zealand is the greatest rugby nation in the world. I say that without a hint of sarcasm.

    The All Blacks have won three Rugby World Cups, more than anyone else. The Junior All Blacks have won almost every junior title over the past 15 years. New Zealand Super Rugby teams have been, and will continue to be, dominant, with few exceptions.

    New Zealand All Blacks players celebrated defeating South Africa Springboks 2015 Rugby World Cup semi-final

    (AP Photo/Rob Taggart)

    The NPC is the greatest semi-professional championship anywhere in the world and is fed by an amazingly developed and talented schoolboy competition.

    Yet all that doesn’t appear to be enough for many Kiwis. I say many, because there are some who genuinely care about the game and the bigger international picture. Yet those supporters are sadly quiet at the moment.

    If Kiwis really love the game of rugby, rather than just winning, there should be a groundswell of sympathy in New Zealand for the plight of the game in Australia and South Africa.

    There should also be profound worry and concern.

    One could easily argue that the strength of the Wallabies between 1991 and 2003 played an important role in the All Blacks’ successes in 2011 and 2015. Arguably no union in the world adapted as quickly to professional rugby as Australia. Alan Jones, Bob Dwyer, Rod McQueen and Eddie Jones all were pivotal in developing the professional game in the Southern Hemisphere and forging ahead of Europe.

    The same could be said for Jake White’s Springboks, who strongly challenged the All Blacks at a junior level before going on to win the World Cup in 2007. Without that competition in the years before, would the All Blacks have seen off such a stern challenge from the French in 2011?

    Even the most ardent New Zealand Rugby Union administrators and coaches would recognise that maintaining a strong game in Australia and South Africa is vital to the success of rugby in New Zealand in the long term. Perhaps this is why the NZRU and SANZAAR set up the so-called ‘farcical’ finals qualification system in the first place.

    Yes, Super Rugby is a mess. Yes, SANZAAR has made that mess. But ensuring that at least one South African and Australian team make the finals is a necessity for all unions involved.

    Unfair? Maybe. Unwise? Definitely not.

    Too many New Zealanders seem to have forgotten the lessons of history when it comes to an arrogant, isolationist approach.

    Those of us who are old enough will remember the cries from South Africa in 1987 and 1991 when the Boks were excluded from participating in the World Cups. “You haven’t played the real world champions,” went some of those cries, while others were along the lines of “The Currie Cup teams are better than the Wallabies and All Blacks”.

    They were punchy assertions that made no friends in New Zealand at the time.

    Needless to say, when South Africa re-joined the international system and met the Wallabies and All Blacks in 1992 they were soundly beaten.

    Why? Quite simply because the game in South Africa during the 80s had been played in isolation without international competition. It had failed to develop and renew.

    Similar issues were identified when English and French clubs tried to break away from the European competition and form their own. It was immediately recognised that the Irish and Welsh, in particular, were key cogs for the development of the game in general.

    So many Kiwis are genuinely in love with the game of rugby. Their heroes, the Carters and McCaws, the Shelfords and Lomus are the greatest ever but manage to find a place in every neutral’s heart.

    All Blacks captain Richie McCaw

    (Photo: AFP)

    Why? Humility. Humbleness. Traits that, in the past at least, others associated with New Zealanders.

    Yet there is an arrogance and unpleasantness emanating from an increasing number of New Zealanders now. The lack of care for the game’s death throws in Australia and South Africa. The lack of respect for the British and Irish Lions and European rugby in general which is so evident in the comments on these pages. It is very disappointing.

    Is New Zealand truly in love with the game or just with winning?

    Forget about the British and Irish Lions for now.

    England are throwing everything into beating the All Blacks not just in 2019 but for ten years after too. It has become an obsession for the relentless Eddie Jones and the powerful English union he has harnessed behind him.

    Unlike the French and Wallabies, who got remarkably close with very average sides in 2011 and 2015 respectively, England have the financial resources and player depth to facilitate the obsession.

    At the provincial level, Saracens in London have just won back-to-back European titles. Their South African backers are quietly confident that they can take on the best of Super Rugby.

    If New Zealand rugby is to remain at the pinnacle, if the All Blacks want to stay as the Everest for all opposition, then New Zealanders need to self-administer a healthy dose of humility. For their own sake.

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    The Crowd Says (378)

    • May 19th 2017 @ 3:15am
      Carlos the Argie said | May 19th 2017 @ 3:15am | ! Report

      “The juniors have won almost every title…”

      I also have se$$$ almost every day. Almost on Monday, almost on Tuesday, almost on Wednesday….

      • May 19th 2017 @ 5:57am
        Keith said | May 19th 2017 @ 5:57am | ! Report

        What are you talking about weirdo

        • May 19th 2017 @ 7:15am
          Carlos the Argie said | May 19th 2017 @ 7:15am | ! Report

          This false statement in his post. If you don’t read carefully, you will miss it. The NZ juniors have NOT won the last tournaments:

          “The Junior All Blacks have won almost every junior title over the past 15 years.”

          Maybe Keith, you should be more careful before making silly statements.

          • May 19th 2017 @ 9:08am
            stubs said | May 19th 2017 @ 9:08am | ! Report

            care to elaborate?

            • May 19th 2017 @ 10:25am
              Suzy Poison said | May 19th 2017 @ 10:25am | ! Report

              In the last 5yrs, New Zealand has won one U2O World Cup title. South Africa have won one two.
              England have won three.

              • May 19th 2017 @ 11:15am
                Carlos the Argies said | May 19th 2017 @ 11:15am | ! Report

                That’s my point.

              • May 19th 2017 @ 12:01pm
                Jacko said | May 19th 2017 @ 12:01pm | ! Report

                The whole article is full of rubbish.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 9:58am
        Bakkies said | May 19th 2017 @ 9:58am | ! Report

        They have won 5 Junior World Cups. Prior to the JWC they won 2 under 19s and 2 under 21s titles.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 5:47pm
        wre01 said | May 19th 2017 @ 5:47pm | ! Report

        Firstly, ignore Keith below, don’t need posters like that on the Roar.
        I should also take the opportunity to rephrase “the juniors have won almost every title”.
        For accuracy, they have won 5 of the 9 titles played since the institution of the Under 20 World Championship in 2008.
        I must say though, that I think it is very hard to argue against NZ Rugby being the dominant force across all levels of the game over the past 5-10 years.

        • May 20th 2017 @ 1:10am
          Carlos the Argie said | May 20th 2017 @ 1:10am | ! Report

          Yes, but many kiwis are rather worried that NH countries are getting much better in junior rugby. How this will impact senior rugby we don’t know yet. But if you are a kiwi, then you know that the concern is serious.

          It is possible that many players that could join the U20 teams are not allowed to go, like Jordi Barrett this year, or it could be that the development of junior players in NZ follows a different path than in the NH. NH teams, it seems, are more structured, stronger physically, and play a more “mature” rugby, while NZ teams have that flair of the seniors without their composure or maturity.

          It may be worth it for NZ to continue that way than to strengthen set plays. Who knows?

          • May 20th 2017 @ 11:14am
            Jibba Jabba said | May 20th 2017 @ 11:14am | ! Report

            “Many kiwis”” ! and you know this how.
            “Worried” Really?

            It is a game – Kiwis and everyone else may worry about their family, their kids, their job, their security, their health, their future, but rugby – no it is a game. a pastime a distraction, something to be enjoyed or ignored, Not something to worry about. It is ‘noted’ the NH kid are part of a strength program producing stronger U20s players so it is something to be considered, a factor to be addressed and planned for by the coaches and others paid to do that… NOT something to worry about. It is all part of the competition of the game. That is all.

          • May 20th 2017 @ 1:15pm
            Kelefua said | May 20th 2017 @ 1:15pm | ! Report

            Who are the many kiwis that are worried Carlos? If anything the better the competition the better the game.

            If a NH team wins the next 2 worldcups then year as a AB fan I’d be worried but hey Rugby still wins in that scenario.

    • May 19th 2017 @ 3:20am
      Custard Cream said | May 19th 2017 @ 3:20am | ! Report

      Funny, I don’t recall this kind of article when the Aus media were gloating and boasting about the cricket team.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 11:01am
        Ouch said | May 19th 2017 @ 11:01am | ! Report

        Thats because there was no gloating or boasting. There was pride in having one of the best teams ever. Cricket fans were sick of winning test matches so easily – 17 in a row. Twice. Most were stoked when India broke the streak on the back of the epic innings by Laxman and Dravid.
        Even the 05 Ashes loss was fine because it was a good contest and it meant that finally we were being challenged.
        Continual winning gets boring.

        • May 19th 2017 @ 12:02pm
          Jacko said | May 19th 2017 @ 12:02pm | ! Report

          Yes Gloating and boasting was constant. Still is…

        • May 19th 2017 @ 8:54pm
          Bakkies said | May 19th 2017 @ 8:54pm | ! Report

          Never got of flogging awful English teams in the 1990s.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 1:27pm
        Blue said | May 19th 2017 @ 1:27pm | ! Report

        That’s odd. I clearly do.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 5:50pm
        wre01 said | May 19th 2017 @ 5:50pm | ! Report

        My point is that NZ Sport has traditionally been recognised as humble and quietly achieving. There has been no need in the past top write this kind of article.
        My fear is that NZ Rugby is getting a little complacent and not recognising properly the implications on it of the disasters unfolding in Australia and SA.

        • May 19th 2017 @ 6:12pm
          Quin said | May 19th 2017 @ 6:12pm | ! Report

          It’s not fear, it’s your blatant disdain for New Zealand rugby seeping through with every post you make, you want New Zealanders to be some big green eyed monster to make you feel better and justified in your rather obvious angst of having to acknowledge that Australian rugby is in the toilet and you are looking to deflect attention away from your own arrogance and willingness to accept their are major issues and flaws within your own system.
          The only countries getting complacent are Australia and South Africa, New Zealand is stepping up its game. Stop crying poor me and up your game and your professionalism.
          If anything Australia and South Africa can thank their lucky stars that they get to play against NZ so often in SR and RC because I couldn’t imagine how poor they would be without them.

          • May 19th 2017 @ 9:31pm
            wre01 said | May 19th 2017 @ 9:31pm | ! Report

            I would accept there are major flaws in the Australian (and South African) games.
            My view is also that the All Blacks are a template for sporting success globally, even in the States. Part of the reason is that NZ rugby is sensationally supported and managed at every level.
            That said, I think my article fairly noted a tendency by an increasing proportion of rugby supporters in NZ to show a lack of humility and appreciation for the broader game’s woes. If I was a Kiwi supporter, I’d be concerned that culturally that may impact on the national team in the future. It is also worth noting that perception is shared not just by many Australians and South Africans but also Europeans.
            Don’t shoot the messenger.

            • May 20th 2017 @ 2:26pm
              Scrumma said | May 20th 2017 @ 2:26pm | ! Report

              Not only are our women the backbone of all our clubs but they’re also finding their way on pro rugby’s payroll, so don’t forget to mention our women and their world titles.

            • May 20th 2017 @ 2:45pm
              Scrumma said | May 20th 2017 @ 2:45pm | ! Report

              So who’s to blame for South Africa and australian rugby woes, it is not upto us to help them get back up to scratch when they both thought they knew everything about the game and laughed at us for not winning any of the five world cups we were favourites for though we were favourites for three of them.
              I’ll tell you this much, all those kiwi haters are lucky the allblacks today were not the allblacks of the early 90s era, though those brothers back then did exceptionally well to keep the allblacks legacy intact.

            • May 20th 2017 @ 7:24pm
              Ryan said | May 20th 2017 @ 7:24pm | ! Report

              I call BS

        • May 19th 2017 @ 11:30pm
          Jibba Jabba said | May 19th 2017 @ 11:30pm | ! Report

          And there is still no need to write such a rubbish article. You are wasting oxygen.
          and cant shoot the messenger – the moderators wont let us 🙂

        • May 20th 2017 @ 1:20pm
          Kelefua said | May 20th 2017 @ 1:20pm | ! Report

          My point is that NZ Sport has traditionally been recognised as humble and quietly achieving. There has been no need in the past top write this kind of article.
          My fear is that NZ Rugby is getting a little complacent and not recognising properly the implications on it of the disasters unfolding in Australia and SA”

          Wre01 it seems you’re more concerned with your feelings. If you really think a bragging kiwi is the cause of Aus/SA’s recent form then you’re with the pixies.

    • May 19th 2017 @ 3:25am
      Killaku said | May 19th 2017 @ 3:25am | ! Report

      I got lost at 2011 and 2015 successes.Without us playing you constantly,You would not have had the most successful 4 years in your history you can always fall back on.Most Kiwis are humble and want the Aussies and SA to get better cos SR is getting boring and most would prefer the NPC.Anyway only way off the bottom of the barrel is up.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 9:32am
        Alan said | May 19th 2017 @ 9:32am | ! Report

        As long as there isn’t a hole in the bottom of the barrel that is.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 11:09am
        Ryan said | May 19th 2017 @ 11:09am | ! Report

        Us Kiwis are just proud of our successes, bugger what the world thinks. If anything, we’ve provided you with something to aspire to, now use that as motivation to get better! Case closed.

        • Roar Guru

          May 19th 2017 @ 11:32am
          PeterK said | May 19th 2017 @ 11:32am | ! Report

          correct, you are proud which is the opposite of humble by definition

          • May 19th 2017 @ 12:04pm
            Jacko said | May 19th 2017 @ 12:04pm | ! Report

            BS Peter you can be both….Proud and Humble…They DONOT mean the opposite

            • May 19th 2017 @ 12:42pm
              Wozza said | May 19th 2017 @ 12:42pm | ! Report

              : you can be both….Proud and Humble”

              An art you haven’t mastered Jacko

              • May 19th 2017 @ 4:52pm
                Jacko said | May 19th 2017 @ 4:52pm | ! Report

                Mastered it many times…pity you havnt mastered reading and comprehension

              • May 19th 2017 @ 6:49pm
                Wozza said | May 19th 2017 @ 6:49pm | ! Report

                Nor wasting my time on pointless exercises it would seem

              • May 19th 2017 @ 6:55pm
                Wozza said | May 19th 2017 @ 6:55pm | ! Report

                And while I haven’t looked up proud or humble in the dictionary latelyI’m pretty sure they don’t mean spurting venom at all things Australian at every opportunity which seems to be the only real contribution, if you could call it that, that you make on these blogs

              • May 21st 2017 @ 1:26pm
                Jacko said | May 21st 2017 @ 1:26pm | ! Report

                Wozza read my posts then admit you are lying. I defend anti NZ I do-not rubbish all things Aus…Please read my comments…Thats if you can read as comprehension seems to have eluded you

            • Roar Guru

              May 19th 2017 @ 2:00pm
              PeterK said | May 19th 2017 @ 2:00pm | ! Report

              look up the opposite of humble and you will find… proud

              • May 19th 2017 @ 2:04pm
                Ryan said | May 19th 2017 @ 2:04pm | ! Report

                Bugger humility!

              • May 19th 2017 @ 4:53pm
                Jacko said | May 19th 2017 @ 4:53pm | ! Report

                I am rather proud of my humble abode Peter

    • May 19th 2017 @ 3:46am
      Bman said | May 19th 2017 @ 3:46am | ! Report

      I’d Love to see a full strength Saracens take on the full strength winners of this years super rugby. None of this exhibition stuff… just a North V South showdown on neutral playing field.

      • Roar Guru

        May 19th 2017 @ 6:48am
        taylorman said | May 19th 2017 @ 6:48am | ! Report

        Yes but it would reall be north/ south versus south wouldn’t it. I’d like to see a SH less Saracens side take them on, then we’d really see the difference.

        • May 19th 2017 @ 10:00am
          Bakkies said | May 19th 2017 @ 10:00am | ! Report

          Most of the current Saracens squad are English qualified. The Saffacens days are over.

        • May 19th 2017 @ 2:18pm
          FunBus said | May 19th 2017 @ 2:18pm | ! Report

          You keep repeating this nonsense. Is your Google ‘button’ broken? All the major players for Saracens are NH, if you count the Vunipolas as NH. Seeing as they’ve lived in the UK since they were very young kids it would be weird not to. Saracens could field an entire starting NH 15 from their own squad and be just as good. The salary cap, number of games in a season, the fact that their stars are often away on international duty, and the spread of the top English players over 12 teams rather than 5 means they fill their very large roster out with a number of overseas players. Their first choice side probably has about 12 Englishmen in.

        • Roar Rookie

          May 19th 2017 @ 9:57pm
          Kirky said | May 19th 2017 @ 9:57pm | ! Report

          T/man! I watch a lot of European rugby mainly the bigger or possibly better games, and Saracens in my opinion would get minced by the Crusaders, and or Hurricanes with the Teams they have at the moment, and I’m sure it wouldn’t matter where it was played, ~ their patch would do, make no difference to the end result.

          Northern rugby is a different brand and I doubt very much if the Saracens or any other team from ‘up there’ would live with the Kiwis with their ability on the top of the ground to alter their game to suit the game in hand and alter it at the drop of a hat if they had to.

          The Northern teams predominantly are goal kickers for wins and with the disgusting laws/rules in force right now the Kiwis would very likely transgress more than they perhaps needed to thereby incurring the wrath of the Referee, hence the kicks at goals to win, ~ that is the only way that they would beat the Southern boys!

          Saracens are South African owned so I dare say most of the players could be from that Country also, not sure on that tho’!

          • Roar Guru

            May 21st 2017 @ 6:47am
            taylorman said | May 21st 2017 @ 6:47am | ! Report

            Yeah I know, maybe they should have played their SHers yesterday, then they might not have been dumped..

            ‘ Farrell was deposited on his backside by a charging Waldrom. ‘

            Ha ha, go the mighty Saracens… perhaps they were wanting to get on the plane early.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 11:47am
        Perthstayer said | May 19th 2017 @ 11:47am | ! Report


        And what purpose would that serve when put in the context of the article?

        • May 19th 2017 @ 11:31pm
          Bman said | May 19th 2017 @ 11:31pm | ! Report

          It will prove the NZ system from grassroots up to All blacks is 100% dominant. Schoolboys are awesome, U20’s kick ass and take names, All blacks back to back world champions… only piece of the puzzle missing is either the Crusaders, Chiefs or Canes, putting the best of Europe to the sword.
          England can brag all day about the return on investment they are starting to see now in their rugby… But an Island nation of 4 million or so can and will dominate them at every level and age group.

          • May 20th 2017 @ 11:19am
            Jibba Jabba said | May 20th 2017 @ 11:19am | ! Report

            Yeah maybe not – is this a trolling piece Batman? (Or is Bman an apprentice Gman. Do you know what a Gman is?)

            The NZ system is okay but the England system is building. they are investing a lot of money into junior rugby and they are getting results (eg the U/20s team and NZ is not dominating them now) so i wouldn’t be in too much of a hurry to write them off and it would be foolish to do so.

    • Roar Pro

      May 19th 2017 @ 3:48am
      David McDaniel said | May 19th 2017 @ 3:48am | ! Report

      Let us have our fun. 🙂 Yes, Australian And South African rugby is having a blip but that happens with very team and sport. Would Australians be humble if they beat the All Blacks every years for 5 years? Hell no.

      Part of life, and rugby, is realsing where you are, where you need to be and what you need to do to get there.
      New Zealand aren’t there yet. Their new team has settled in extremely well and, quite frankly, a lot better than most of us expected so we are basking a bit, which I think is quite justified. But you can bet you bottom dollar that they are not complacent and they will continually be driving for perfection.

      We will get competition from the Northern Hemisphere, its up to the rest of the teams in the Southern Hemisphere to do some internal contemplation, lift their game and get back to challenging the worlds best!

      • May 19th 2017 @ 7:07am
        Fionn said | May 19th 2017 @ 7:07am | ! Report

        Did you miss the point?

        It’s not about the very impressive All Blacks winning everything.

        It’s about the game really struggling in Aus and SA at elite levels, and, according to the author, some New Zealand fans are revelling in it.

        • May 19th 2017 @ 7:18am
          Fionn said | May 19th 2017 @ 7:18am | ! Report

          I tried to edit that as I realised it came across a bit rudely, but it won’t let me.

          I tried to edit it to ‘I think you missed the point?’.

          I don’t necessarily agree with the author’s claims, but it’s an interesting perspective nonetheless.

        • May 19th 2017 @ 7:19am
          rebel said | May 19th 2017 @ 7:19am | ! Report

          No Fionn, he said most.
          I think your statement is more accurate.

          • Roar Guru

            May 19th 2017 @ 8:18am
            Fionn said | May 19th 2017 @ 8:18am | ! Report

            Fair, Rebel, it did generalise quite a lot. I guess that, like with most things, the most vocal minority are the most obnoxious ones, and they are the ones the author noticed, which, in his mind, gave the very decent majority a bad name?

            • May 19th 2017 @ 12:48pm
              rebel said | May 19th 2017 @ 12:48pm | ! Report

              Unfortunately that is the age we now live in with social media. It gives more people a platform to be heard.

              • May 20th 2017 @ 11:21am
                Jibba Jabba said | May 20th 2017 @ 11:21am | ! Report

                But an intelligent commentator should be able to filter that …

        • Roar Guru

          May 19th 2017 @ 9:35am
          Jokerman said | May 19th 2017 @ 9:35am | ! Report

          It’s not easy, Fionn being so perfect as you can see. I thought we just had win and be nice afterwards but no… we now have to bestow pity on the others and then like the alchemist, change that form into pure humility. Like deities by day, and night too…maybe in the ether?

          And roar why stop the comments on my thread? It was about to pass 300 like a rage against the machine !! …another day huh. 🙂

          • Roar Guru

            May 19th 2017 @ 10:15am
            Fionn said | May 19th 2017 @ 10:15am | ! Report

            And roar why stop the comments on my thread? It was about to pass 300 like a rage against the machine !! …another day huh. ?

            Haha, congrats. I assumed that was what you were going for. Did they stop the comments, or have people just moved on?

            • Roar Guru

              May 19th 2017 @ 10:39am
              Jokerman said | May 19th 2017 @ 10:39am | ! Report

              Hey, Fionn, cheers thank you. They stopped the comments…maybe too much sting in there perhaps? But so be it, it’s just a number and it got good coverage.

              I just hope I wasn’t too tough with my replies on it! Something to be aware of I guess.

              The original comment can set the tone a little. When Machooka made a comment my response towards Cooper was warm…whereas, say Ken Catch it’s tough. You come back hard, and in doing so you paint Cooper in a tough manner…and you move away from where you are meant to be.

              I try my best to show someone’s error and the lessons within it, but be sweet at the same time because everyone is learning…and it wasn’t meant to be a dig at Cooper. I sincerely wish the guy well.

              • Roar Guru

                May 19th 2017 @ 12:57pm
                Fionn said | May 19th 2017 @ 12:57pm | ! Report

                No worries, mate. Our opinions differ on that, but if we took issue with people whose opinions differed none of us would have any friends, would we?

            • May 20th 2017 @ 1:38pm
              Jibba Jabba said | May 20th 2017 @ 1:38pm | ! Report

              300 – is that all Twassie aka the aru based entity known as TWAS is closing in on 13,000 (yep, Thirteen Thousand….)

        • Roar Rookie

          May 19th 2017 @ 10:16pm
          Kirky said | May 19th 2017 @ 10:16pm | ! Report

          Fionn! Mate they’re not actually revelling in the demise of the Aussie or SA rugby at all, why would they?

          And I can tell you, they DO care about the above Countries rugby quality as all our traditional opponents need to be as strong as possible because strong opposition is a must for any good rugby outcome!

          Australian and South African rugby’s problems are not the rugby as such it’s the deplorably bad management at fault in both cases, as the New Zealand Admin’ model is an absolute gem of almost total perfection in every aspect, and always has been, that’s why they are where they are and will very likely stay!

          • May 20th 2017 @ 9:43am
            Muzzo said | May 20th 2017 @ 9:43am | ! Report

            Hi Kirky.
            Mate I agree with you to a certain extent, mainly on Australian rugby management, having been there for a couple of years or so, on a management committee, of a certain union. With the South African case, mate, you will find it a little different, with this ridiculous Quota System, the government, has put in place. As, we know, from the past, politics & sport, especially rugby, are a very bad mix, & it’s a game that the politicians should keep their dam noses out of. Let the governing Union run the game, just like it’s being run in NZ.
            Back to the Australian, system, where there is too much of the old school tie crap, & it should be promoted outside the Private schools, & more time, promoting the public schools systems. That particular way of thought, with those that still have that attitude, is so yesterday, in the way the game is approached nowaday. In saying that, blame must surely be directed at the ARU, for allowing this.

        • May 20th 2017 @ 11:01am
          Kelefua said | May 20th 2017 @ 11:01am | ! Report

          “It’s not about the very impressive All Blacks winning everything” actually Fionn that’s exactly what it’s about.

          Jealousy, hating & all those sorts of words spring to mind when reading this article. The author clearly needs to take a break from watching NZ rugby before he develops suicidal tendancies;)

        • May 20th 2017 @ 6:40pm
          Scrumma said | May 20th 2017 @ 6:40pm | ! Report

          That is there problem not ours. The only problem we is a population disadvantage problem.

    • Roar Rookie

      May 19th 2017 @ 5:01am
      atlas said | May 19th 2017 @ 5:01am | ! Report

      “social media trends aren’t always that well informed but it is a representation of broad public opinion nevertheless.”

      A very broad statement. And perhaps just as uninformed as those you suggest. Does The Roar similarly reflect all Australian rugby opinion – I truly hope not

      NZ Herald with its audited NZ 4% circulation…
      Oh well, plenty of bait here… fills a space till next time

      There may be many of the ‘sadly quiet’ as you put it; but we’re not ‘sad’ at all, more interested in getting out to support our local school and club sides, whatever the weather

      The rugby community. In Wellington at least the arrogance and unpleasantness may be put aside tomorrow, matches, including the Hurricanes, dedicated to a 19yr colts player who died midweek after a head injury on Saturday. Brings us back to earth. A friend’s son, and an employee both play in same grade, a sad and tragic loss.

      • May 19th 2017 @ 5:58pm
        wre01 said | May 19th 2017 @ 5:58pm | ! Report

        In my experience, Kiwi Rugby supporters are some of the loveliest people and most humble achievers. The community spirit you describe will hopefully never be lost to the game.
        But I stand by my comments that there is an increasing under current in NZ that is not humble or quietly achieving and goes against the traits Kiwis are generally known and valued for.
        Living in London, many, many Rugby supporters of all nationalities are saying it. They resent the “typical northern hemisphere 10” talk around Farrell. It’s demeaning and lacking respect. They don’t like hearing that European Cup Rugby is rubbish. Or that the islanders in the English and Welsh sides shouldn’t be eligible. And allot of that talk comes from NZ, recently at least.
        I think NZ Rugby can stick its head in the sand and deny that there are some pretty unsavoury elements to its support these days or they can tackle it head on. And the best way to do that is to recognise that the game in NZ needs the game in Australia and SA to flourish. Stop the talk of how unfair it is that all 5 kiwi sides aren’t eligible for the Super Rugby finals and look at the big picture.

        • May 19th 2017 @ 6:15pm
          Quin said | May 19th 2017 @ 6:15pm | ! Report

          More opinion stated as facts….and you want to be taken seriously?

          • May 19th 2017 @ 9:39pm
            wre01 said | May 19th 2017 @ 9:39pm | ! Report

            Perhaps you can tell me how I ‘factually’ support social media trends? How do I collate the number of times you read on the Roar or Twitter or Facebook that NH rugby is boring or Owen Farrell is useless compared to Beauden Barrett or NH rugby is played by fat, slow players etc?
            Perhaps you have an algorithm or software application for it?
            I think it is hard to deny that those perceptions exist in NZ on a general level and that they are increasingly repeated. Again, don’t shoot the messenger.

            • May 21st 2017 @ 1:34pm
              Jacko said | May 21st 2017 @ 1:34pm | ! Report

              But why is Me believing and backing my first choice no 10 over the first choice no 10 of another country being Arrogant or lacking humility? I am just as entitled to believe and back my players that you are to back and believe in your players……You say NZers dont accept that Farrell is better than Barrett. Well Barrett is the reigning World player of the year so why would we say anything different? One could say it is you who is failing to accept that the rugby world judges Barret to be better than Farrell. You are not the messenger….YTou are the instigator. You wrote this article….Take responcibility for the article you wrote

        • May 20th 2017 @ 11:11am
          Kelefua said | May 20th 2017 @ 11:11am | ! Report

          “In my experience, Kiwi Rugby supporters are some of the loveliest people and most humble achievers” wre01 your article portrays the opposite.. you’ve lumped AB fans as a bunch of sore winners when in fact it’s yourself thats a sore loser.

          It’s a concern how emotional you are with a few kiwis perking up about NZ rugby success. I’m surprised you still have a few marbles left with what goes on in social media. Take break have kitkat;)

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