Sorry Izzy, but respect and support go hand in hand

Josh Elliott Editor

By Josh Elliott, Josh Elliott is a Roar Editor

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    On Wednesday, Israel Folau took to Twitter to put forward his stance on Australia’s upcoming same sex marriage survey.

    I’m not going to attack Folau for having an unpopular opinion or an opinion that I disagree with. People do have a right to have their own opinions, though contrary to popular belief, that does not mean they have a right to freedom from criticism, as any writer or commenter here on The Roar could tell you.

    Some have even labelled Folau’s decision to speak out about his beliefs, going against the grain of popular society and the public stance of the ARU, as a courageous one.

    To put forward an unpopular opinion can be a courageous act, certainly. But for it to be so, the opinion-holder must accept the reality and consequences of that opinion, which Folau has failed to do.

    I love and respect all people. I will not support gay marriage. These two statements are mutually exclusive, so one of them must be false. You do not love or respect all people if you believe some of them should have fewer rights than everybody else.

    It’s not hard to see why Folau feels the way he does – the man has #TeamJesus in his Twitter bio, after all. And again, he has every right to do so.

    But this is the problem with religion in a nutshell. It teaches people to put the whims of a hypothetical deity above the rights of real living and breathing people. That has often led to war, hate, intolerance and division, and it will never stop doing so.

    The genuinely courageous thing for anyone publicly opposing gay marriage would be to say: I am putting my own personal opinion above the rights of others in the grand scheme of my priorities. I believe the freedoms of other people should live and die on whether or not I approve of them.

    Israel Folau Australia Rugby Union Wallabies 2017

    (Photo by Cameron Spencer/Getty Images)

    It’s a dislikeable position to take, but at least it would be more honest.

    Some make the argument that denying same sex marriage is not denying equal rights. They say that homosexual people have the right to marry a person of the opposite sex just like everyone else, and that is ‘equal’.

    But if a paraplegic person asked for the right to own a wheelchair and use access ramps, would you tell them no, sorry, you have the same equal right to walk with your legs and climb stairs, just like everybody else? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

    Everyone has the right to move about the world, and the law caters for this by providing handicapped people with the assistance they need to do so.

    Everyone, too, has the right to love and be loved. It’s not something the law can give or take away. It’s something we were all born with.

    If consenting adults choose to do so, they should be able to exercise their right to love by entering into a marriage – and the time is long overdue that the law provided the equal right for all to do so.

    That is what equal rights are. If you do not support people having them, that is your decision and you are entitled with it, but you must face the reality of what it is you are deciding. If you vote no you are voting for inequality. It would be difficult to claim to love and respect the people whose rights you are voting to deny.

    That is not love. That is not respect.

    Josh Elliott
    Josh Elliott

    Josh Elliott may be The Roar's Weekend Editor, but at heart he's just a rusted-on North Melbourne tragic with a penchant for pun headlines - and also abnormal alliteration, assuredly; assuming achievability. He once finished third in a hot chilli pie eating contest. You can follow him on Twitter @JoshElliott_29 and listen to him on The Roar's AFL Podcast.

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    The Crowd Says (638)

    • September 14th 2017 @ 1:03pm
      Tony H said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

      Come on Josh. This is a blatant politicising of this site, and I think it’s bluntly out of order.

      I for one support the poll, but I’m sick and tired of everyone who doesn’t getting attacked. The Thought Police are well and truly out in force.

      Can we please leave this as a sport site, and NOT a political one?

      • September 14th 2017 @ 1:31pm
        Phil of Sydney said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:31pm | ! Report

        “This is a blatant politicising of this site, and I think it’s bluntly out of order”

        Agreed.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 4:57pm
          Uncle Eric said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:57pm | ! Report

          Agreed also. And in my view there are far more important issues to address in Australia and our planet. Shame people can’t muster the same degree of enthusiasm on some of those. Please stick to the rugby here folks!!

          • September 14th 2017 @ 9:32pm
            Netderick said | September 14th 2017 @ 9:32pm | ! Report

            I fully agree. Stick to rugby.

          • September 15th 2017 @ 12:42am
            Dexter The Hamster said | September 15th 2017 @ 12:42am | ! Report

            There are for more important issues in Australia to deal with. Like the rugby…. Give me a break.

            • September 15th 2017 @ 12:51pm
              Beavis said | September 15th 2017 @ 12:51pm | ! Report

              Your comparison to wheelchair use is bizarre

        • September 15th 2017 @ 9:49am
          Taniwha said | September 15th 2017 @ 9:49am | ! Report

          “This is a blatant politicising of this site, and I think it’s bluntly out of order”

          Agreed also. I’m also over the thugs wanting to intimidate and shut down the opposition. I will be voting No to intimidation and i’m not religious.

        • September 15th 2017 @ 10:12am
          superba said | September 15th 2017 @ 10:12am | ! Report

          Agree .
          This is an absolute bloody disgrace .

      • Editor

        September 14th 2017 @ 1:36pm
        Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:36pm | ! Report

        Tony, I’ve gone to some effort to have this not be an attack piece on Folau, but instead a rebuttal of his stance on the issue. Obviously, it’s impossible to do that without criticising him to some degree.

        Sports and politics do unavoidably intersect at times. In addition to that, SSM is not just a political issue but a human one and a social one, and sport is inescapably both human and social.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 2:46pm
          Realist271 said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:46pm | ! Report

          What a fallacious argument and your virtue signalling is repugnant. The assertion “I love and respect all people. I will not support gay marriage. These two statements are mutually exclusive, so one of them must be false. You do not love or respect all people if you believe some of them should have fewer rights than everybody else” is completely false. A gay couple (civil union) has all the rights of a married couple or a defacto couple . However, the terminology is simply different as the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman (at present). Do you want to start calling the color blue yellow now? This is about changing the definition of marriage, not giving anyone more or less rights in legal terms. Hopefully the SSM Marriage change should yield more tax dollars for the ATO. Definitely harder to escape household income tests when you a married.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 2:56pm
            arthur rightus said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:56pm | ! Report

            Spot on Realist271
            And that strawman argument about disabled people is pathetic.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 7:24pm
              soapit said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:24pm | ! Report

              i dont think you understand what a straw man argument is.

          • Editor

            September 14th 2017 @ 3:15pm
            Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:15pm | ! Report

            Yellow is not the same as blue therefore you wouldn’t call it blue (though I’m sure the world would devolve into cannibalistic anarchy quicksmart if you did).

            Civil union is the same as marriage you say, therefore there’s no reason not to call it marriage.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 3:38pm
              Tony H said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:38pm | ! Report

              So, by your own logic, because you don’t support Folau’s stance, you don’t respect him.

              After all, you posited that they are the same thing.

              • Editor

                September 14th 2017 @ 3:54pm
                Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:54pm | ! Report

                I support Folau having the same rights as everyone else, which is what I’m asking of him.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 4:52pm
                Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:52pm | ! Report

                Does the referendum have any actual specific detail about law changes and how they will affect any peoples rights?

                I could be against the vague nature of the referendum itself.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 5:39pm
                Dave_S said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:39pm | ! Report

                It’s not a referendum, it’s a non-binding survey.

                The government has so far declined to propose any draft bill.

                It could be as simple as winding things back to before Howard’s govt made the change to the Act that defined marriage in terms of man+woman.

                I don’t recall anyone asking for any specific protections of other rights (whatever they are) prior to that.

              • September 16th 2017 @ 10:08am
                Col in paradise said | September 16th 2017 @ 10:08am | ! Report

                It’s a dumb ass Logies style Poll because the Government doesn’t have the balls to do its job and what we pay them to do.
                Religion and state should not mix. Religion should not tell others how to live their lives . Folou should maybe look at some Pacific Island history about their colonisation and the role of the church – a disgrace!

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 6:10pm
                Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:10pm | ! Report

                Hm, a non-binding vote about something with no specific detail at all.

                So while Josh has quite clear views of what he *thinks* he is voting for, by the time it leaves parliament he might of voted for something quite different in fact.

                What a brilliant piece of design.

              • September 16th 2017 @ 10:14am
                Col in paradise said | September 16th 2017 @ 10:14am | ! Report

                Yep the LNP in action again like the republican vote and Benedict Arnold Malcolm Trumbull at the helm again with his old master Howard surfacing – it’s a set up – I’m betting on a N o vote winning this rubbish poll although it would be a disgrace – but that’s how this simple country goes -anyone know if where the best odds on this joke of a vote are???

              • September 14th 2017 @ 7:09pm
                northerner said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:09pm | ! Report

                Except, of course, he hasn’t “voted” for anything. He’s stated his opinion: nothing less, but nothing more.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 7:13pm
                Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:13pm | ! Report

                Yes, but with no clear detail of the consequences.

                (Not to criticise Josh, just an example, everyone is in that boat)

              • September 15th 2017 @ 11:58am
                Ruckin' Oaf said | September 15th 2017 @ 11:58am | ! Report

                “….about law changes and how they will affect any peoples rights?”

                I believe people of the same gender will have the right to get married.

                I’m not aware of any other affects.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 4:40pm
              tyrone said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:40pm | ! Report

              “I love and respect all people. I will not support gay marriage. These two statements are mutually exclusive, so one of them must be false. You do not love or respect all people if you believe some of them should have fewer rights than everybody else.”

              What if a loved one goes to prison for doing something illegal?

              The loved one gets fewer rights than the rest of society, are you going to stop loving them?

              I don’t support Falou’s point of view but respect that he holds it, the ARU has pigeon holed all players into the yes camp and obviously did not ask the players.

              I wonder if the ARU support for SSM is to ensure the ongoing sponsorship by QANTAS? If a lot of players support the no vote then what would the major sponsor think?

              • September 15th 2017 @ 2:33pm
                Ruckin' Oaf said | September 15th 2017 @ 2:33pm | ! Report

                “What if a loved one goes to prison for doing something illegal?”

                Is doing something illegal a “fewer right than everybody else.”

                “The loved one gets fewer rights than the rest of society…..”

                Is doing something illegal a right that the rest of society has ? I was unaware of that.

              • September 16th 2017 @ 7:49am
                London Waratah said | September 16th 2017 @ 7:49am | ! Report

                Tyrone,

                By doing something illegal, you relinquish the rights to ‘equal rights’ in our society…soz buddy…unless you’re living in a different society to traditional ‘Western Society’?

                I’m a bit surprised by the backlash to this article and possibly shines a light on those above. It appears you’re all quite happy to keep gay couples effectively ‘outside society’. Ask yourselves Why?

                Peter Fitz in SMH makes a brilliant point about Israel’s stance in that much of the population procreate outside of marriage as is…many of those procreate without the ability to conceive.

                RE: politicising this site? This ‘ain’t politics kids.

                Throughout history, there has been a consistent percentage of gay people. in every population (23% in USA according to one Wiki article)….they generally have not procreated as a rule so therefore are a naturally-occurring variant to the majority within a human population, for as long as records have been kept.

                Therefore, logic would have it (sorry to bring that concept into this discussion) that they are a natural variant within the natural human species. They are natural.

                Therefore, carrying on with that old ‘logic thingy’, their occurrence is akin to blue eyes v brown eyes variations in being a pre-determined genetic facet of our species and deserve to be accepted within our population/society as such.

                Come on ‘boys and girls’….this discussion might expand the minds.

              • September 16th 2017 @ 12:20pm
                moaman said | September 16th 2017 @ 12:20pm | ! Report

                @ London Waratah “many of those procreate without the ability to conceive.”
                Er….ummmm…..??

          • September 14th 2017 @ 4:33pm
            Beavis said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:33pm | ! Report

            I think I agree with you but I’m led to believe civil union couples have less rights when one partner is in palliative care – this should be fixed if this is the case rather than being a reason to change the definition of marriage and potential for further changes – I would love to see the proposed legislation but Shorten is going to ignore the postal result anyway so its inevitable.

            • September 15th 2017 @ 9:21am
              jameswm said | September 15th 2017 @ 9:21am | ! Report

              If there are loopholes to stop gay people in relationships having those types of rights, they need to be fixed up.

              But having those rights and the right to get “married” are not the same thing.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 8:02pm
            Stephen C said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:02pm | ! Report

            Realist 271 – I reluctantly enter this non-Rugby debate with unequivocal agreement. This equal rights thing is nonsense of the highest order. Marriage is not a right. It is a legal bond between a man and a woman.
            I must also say that I am bitterly disappointed that the ARU feels the need to support one side or the other of this important issue. Perhaps if they stuck to the core task of administrating the game, they wouldn’t be in such a shambles.

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 8:32pm
              The Saint said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:32pm | ! Report

              Agreed Stephen C

        • September 14th 2017 @ 2:56pm
          Joe B said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:56pm | ! Report

          Agreed. Sport and politics do cross paths from time to time. Australia being sports obsessed, and a non-secular state, is there any surprise that social change is reflected by sports bodies, and it’s participants? It is only disppointing that parliament, and in particular the right wing element of the coalition govt, will not represent the wishes of the people.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 3:04pm
          Perthstayer said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:04pm | ! Report

          Josh,

          when you criticise the man you criticise his religion.

          When you cristicise the religion you criticise its believers.

          I said it below but I’ll say it again. You should have stated it is your opinion that God is a hypothetical deity and not making it a statement of fact. By not doing so you are sailing very close to mimicking the actions you criticise Folau of.

          • Editor

            September 14th 2017 @ 3:19pm
            Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:19pm | ! Report

            I don’t think it’s any secret that I am criticising religion, Perthstayer.

            Hypothetical in this case is intended to mean that a deity is posited to exist, rather than proven. Perhaps “Schrodinger’s deity” would be more accurate. There’s every chance one might exist, personally, I lean towards the belief that one does.

          • Roar Guru

            September 14th 2017 @ 3:24pm
            XI said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:24pm | ! Report

            That’s fallacious. My Catholic family supporting Marriage Equality. As does my evangelical best friend. As does my Muslim girlfriend. As a bisexual atheist, it’s actually nice to be supported by others and not nice to say “You don’t deserve this.” Also “civil unions” don’t actually apply across the country. Also, seperate but equal is an oxymoron.

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 3:46pm
              AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:46pm | ! Report

              Great comment, XI. It’s so nice to know you’re well supported.

              It’s ridiculous – just because people are religious they’re not obliged to vote no. A lot of them will, and that’s fine, but I have a lot of respect for religious people who can speak up and vote yes.

              Walking through the city here in Adelaide and hearing the preachers yell about how gay marriage is “evil” and “will send us all to hell” and all that BS is always a tiring experience. But nothing compares to when people put ‘VOTE NO’ signs up around my uni campus yesterday. They’re allowed too, of course, but it’s always awkward. Especially on such a heavily ‘left wing’ campus like mine appears to be. Can’t wait for this stupid vote to be over, to be honest.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 5:20pm
                XI said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:20pm | ! Report

                Cheers, man. I know I’ve really lucked out.

                Yeah it’s a depressing thing. Watching politicians and pundits try and make their arguments is infuriating. The smugness that Turnbull got out of the opinion poll going ahead and will get if Yes gets up is probably the most infuriating thing of all.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 7:14pm
                northerner said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:14pm | ! Report

                I sort of despair at our politicians. I think Turnbull should have had the courage to do the thing I suspect he believes is right – and simply redefine “marriage” while ensuring protection of religious rights. In Canada, same sex marriage is legal – but it doesn’t mean that, if your church or mosque disagrees, they are forced to perform a marriage ceremony – it means that the equivalent of a civil celebrant will and must perform marriages regardless of the gender of the couple – or lose his or her licence. So all marriages performed under the sole auspices of the state must be gender neutral, while the churches, temples and mosques can still pick and choose.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 7:26pm
                In brief said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:26pm | ! Report

                I find it bizarre that religions fundamentally change their teachings to match the social mores of the day. it essentially demonstrates that the religion is founded on the views of men not God, which defeats the purpose of having the religion to start with.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 8:13pm
                Brian George said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:13pm | ! Report

                When it is impossible to get a simple 10 word statement passed verbatim between a handful of people I find it astonishing that anyone gives credence to a book written generations after the alleged events.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 8:36pm
                The Saint said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:36pm | ! Report

                Research again Brian George.

              • September 15th 2017 @ 4:55pm
                clipper said | September 15th 2017 @ 4:55pm | ! Report

                northerner – would that be retrospective? I think civil celebrants who had their license before SSM was made legal should still have the choice. Any celebrant trying to get their license after should have to agree to perform these ceremony’s. It will then be their choice if they want to go get their licence or not.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 5:56pm
          double agent said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:56pm | ! Report

          Josh I think you should wait till the result before deciding whether Izzy’s choice is unpopular or not.

          Also.

          I come on the ROAR Rugby page to escape the banalities of political current affairs. It’s a sanctuary. Now you’ve ruined it.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 6:06pm
            ads2600 said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:06pm | ! Report

            Agreed.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 8:14pm
            Brian George said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:14pm | ! Report

            If you think The Roar is a sanctuary you need help son.

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 8:38pm
              The Saint said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:38pm | ! Report

              Someone needs help Brian George… but it certainly no Double Agent.

            • September 15th 2017 @ 10:49am
              Deir-ba-zor said | September 15th 2017 @ 10:49am | ! Report

              Be quiet mr religious, people are having a serious discussion here.

              • Roar Guru

                September 15th 2017 @ 5:32pm
                The Saint said | September 15th 2017 @ 5:32pm | ! Report

                And you are?

              • September 15th 2017 @ 6:04pm
                poyns said | September 15th 2017 @ 6:04pm | ! Report

                ?

              • September 15th 2017 @ 7:07pm
                Brian George said | September 15th 2017 @ 7:07pm | ! Report

                And here I was thinking your moniker referred to the Roger Moore version, silly me hehehehe…

              • Roar Guru

                September 15th 2017 @ 9:35pm
                The Saint said | September 15th 2017 @ 9:35pm | ! Report

                Yes, silly you. Dont be fooled by my pen name Brian George

        • September 14th 2017 @ 6:37pm
          Dan in Devon said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:37pm | ! Report

          Well said Josh. I do not believe that civic society should be governed by religious values. There must be a clear separation of church and state and as such basic civic rights should be extended to all citizens irrespective of class, creed, sexuality and race, etc.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 7:34pm
            In brief said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:34pm | ! Report

            In which case get rid of marriage altogether. Despite the advent of the civil marriage there remain many religious undertones to the institution of marriage. Even atheist couples get married to avoid the stigma of having children out of wedlock and to gain social acceptance. Subconsciously these are religious rites of passage we fear offending. Rather than voting to bring about SSM we should be voting to ban all marriage. That would be true equality.

        • Roar Guru

          September 14th 2017 @ 6:47pm
          The Saint said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:47pm | ! Report

          Josh, three things:
          1. You not only attacked Folau’s statement (and you have a right to your opinion) but you attacked his religion also? In doing so you’re attacking a billion Christians around the globe.
          2. You described Folau’s tweet as an “unpopular opinion”… too early to say that since the referrendum or unbinding survey has not been completed and results finalised.
          3. This is a sports site is it not?

          • September 14th 2017 @ 8:16pm
            Brian George said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:16pm | ! Report

            So several trillion flies eat excreta, perhaps they’re right and we should follow suit?

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 8:44pm
              The Saint said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:44pm | ! Report

              Have you counted the flies then Brian George? I’m amazed you’re still in this world.. can you even count to a million.. let alone a trillion.
              Have your supper and go to sleep.. that’s a good boy, now..

              • September 15th 2017 @ 12:46am
                Dexter The Hamster said | September 15th 2017 @ 12:46am | ! Report

                Condescending much? And you are a “guru”?? That’s a good boy now….

                Ridiculous.

          • September 15th 2017 @ 4:55pm
            To Be Rugby said | September 15th 2017 @ 4:55pm | ! Report

            Saint, three things:

            1. So what if Josh ‘attacked’ a billion Christians around the globe. Your religious ideas are no more immune from criticism than your opinions on any subject.

            2. Most of the many polls conducted are running at around 70 to 80% in favour of the yes vote, so yes at the moment you could consider Folau’s opinion as being the more unpopular.

            3. Yes this is a sport site. A sporting body (namely the ARU) has come out in favour of the motion. A sportsman (namely Israel Folau) has come out against the same motion. Why not discuss?

            • Roar Guru

              September 15th 2017 @ 9:33pm
              The Saint said | September 15th 2017 @ 9:33pm | ! Report

              To Be Rugby..
              Three things:
              1. Yes (and don’t let my pen name fool you) Christians are as open to criticism as anyone BUT the article on Folau’s comment was put up on this site NOT because he is Christian but BECAUSE he is a rugby player – yet Josh should have constrained his criticism to Folau and NOT his religion. Folau did not attribute his comments to his faith but hiw OWN opinion. I suggest many Christians I will vote Yes. So let that one go To Be Rugby. If a non star sportsman made the tweet, would a Roar article be written about it? No
              2. Polls are JUST that .. polls. Its not THE result.
              Polls are only exactly what they are.
              3. What’s your argument, again?

            • Roar Guru

              September 15th 2017 @ 9:46pm
              The Saint said | September 15th 2017 @ 9:46pm | ! Report

              To be rugby..
              Three things..
              1. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.. i.e. .don’t be fooled by pen name. Assumption is the mother of #@%$ups.
              2. Polls are exactly that.. polls. Not the result yet. Its not CREDIBLE result yet.
              3. Like everyone else, Christians are subject to criticism BUT Folau’s tweet and comments was only attributed to his religion by the media NOT Folau. It was his own opinion. I suggest millions of Christians vote YES. Josh went further than attacking Folau’s comments. Josh attacked his religion which had no part in this.
              If a non star sportsman tweeted the comments would the Roar respond with an article? No.
              The article was because Folau is a sportsman Not because of his religion.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 6:51pm
          vin said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:51pm | ! Report

          why are you comparing a paraplegic person to a gay person, what a ridiculous comparison.

          Our faith is all about love and compassion ….and marriage between a man and a woman.
          You should done your research first mate.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 7:27pm
          soapit said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:27pm | ! Report

          josh, you didnt bring politics into sport, the aru and folau did. good on you for a well written and argued position.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 8:34pm
          me too said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:34pm | ! Report

          are roar writers going to pen an article on every tweet a sportsperson makes on this issue? why single this one out – i’ve seen dozens and dozens. hmm?

        • September 15th 2017 @ 9:12am
          Clelo said | September 15th 2017 @ 9:12am | ! Report

          Then you should have chosen the same medium he did, not a rugby discussion site!

      • September 14th 2017 @ 2:36pm
        Tom m said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:36pm | ! Report

        Here Here, Tony

      • September 14th 2017 @ 3:24pm
        I ate pies said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:24pm | ! Report

        Well said Tony. It’s quite arrogant for journalists to think that their opinion holds enough weight as to justify column inches, or that they have the right to influence public debate, just because they have the means to do so.

        • Roar Guru

          September 14th 2017 @ 4:14pm
          AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:14pm | ! Report

          Josh isn’t a journalist. He has never said he is and he isn’t a qualified journalist, but I’m sure he’ll be honoured that people keep believing he is one.

          Also, Folau is a public figure. He’s tweeted a polarising opinion, and one that has garnered a bit of attention. It would be remiss of a sporting-oriented website to ignore it.

          It’s ironic that for all the right’s cries of “omg people are trying to shut down our speech and discredit our opinions!!!”, you blokes sure come out pretty quickly and criticise an opinion piece because … you don’t like what it says? You feel intimidated? You don’t like hearing an eloquent rebuttal to a point?

          Whatever the reason, it’s really kind of ironic.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 4:31pm
            I ate pies said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:31pm | ! Report

            Whatever, journalist, opinion writer – it’s all the same. Their access to a platform doesn’t make their opinions any more valid than the rest of ours.
            I find it curious that you start talking about ‘the right’, and ‘you blokes’. I’ve never stated my opinion on this issue on this website, so I can only assume that you’ve made an assumption about me, or that you think freedom of speech is a ‘right wing’ issue. If you only kids knew some history or had even a vague understanding of the political spectrum. Freedom of speech is in no way a right wing issue. So before you attack me go and do some research.

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 5:15pm
              AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:15pm | ! Report

              But nobody said that their opinions are more valid than your opinions! That’s the way you’ve interpreted it.

              Sorry, yeah. I will admit that I should’ve have used “you blokes”. I don’t know how you feel on this issue, mate, and I certainly didn’t want to make any assumptions.

              Also, I know history. And I know a fair bit about politics. I currently study, and have studied, both.

          • Roar Guru

            September 14th 2017 @ 4:56pm
            Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:56pm | ! Report

            “an eloquent rebuttal to a point”

            Well except it wasn’t a debate and Folau didn’t make a debating point. He just gave his opinion, which in a free society he is allowed to do. So this isn’t a rebuttal in any formal or structured sense, it’s just Josh’s opinion with no more weight than Folau’s.

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 5:31pm
              AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:31pm | ! Report

              The wider connotation is that Folau’s tweet was a part of dialogue within the debate.

              Seriously, this is just infuriating now. Yes, Folau can freely give his opinion. And yes, Josh has the right to reply to what Folau said.

              And, for god’s sake, nobody has ever said that Josh’s opinion has any more weight than Folau’s. Hell, Folau’s opinion has almost certainly reached more of an audience than Josh’s.

              It’s a topical article, in response to an intriguing tweet. So just get off the page if you don’t like it. Seriously.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 9:00pm
                The Saint said | September 14th 2017 @ 9:00pm | ! Report

                So..do you own the page now AdelaideDocker? That you take it upon yourself to bannish people from this site?
                Really???

              • September 15th 2017 @ 2:40pm
                Ruckin' Oaf said | September 15th 2017 @ 2:40pm | ! Report

                Well it would seem that a reasonable grasp of written English isn’t a pre requisite for guruship.

          • September 15th 2017 @ 11:52am
            Phil said | September 15th 2017 @ 11:52am | ! Report

            AD,I don’t think it’s just because people here don’t like what he says,even if a lot do think that way.I think it’s more the way he has said it.
            There are obviously different opinions on this subject and everyone is entitled to his or her own.There is no need to attack people with ridiculous comparisons of how it compares to treatment of paraplegics etc.I also agree with many who say there is no need for articles like this on here,although that’s just my opinion.

      • September 14th 2017 @ 3:30pm
        Albo said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:30pm | ! Report

        Spot on Tony !
        But at least we got a free lesson in why religion is bad, which I guess is the latest and most popular modern day sporting pursuits in these enlightened times. Ironically, Josh has used the Rugby ( “the game they play in heaven”) Section of the Roar to preach to us all about love & respect, free from religion of course.

        • Roar Guru

          September 14th 2017 @ 4:16pm
          AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:16pm | ! Report

          He used the rugby forum because Folau’s a rugby player.

          Simple explanation, don’t you think?

          • Roar Guru

            September 14th 2017 @ 5:12pm
            Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:12pm | ! Report

            *An* explanation – but he also put a political post on a sports blog. So not so black and white as you suggest.

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 5:19pm
              AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:19pm | ! Report

              Oh, get over it.

              It’s an interesting article. I’m sick of people like you freaking out about having something political on a sports forum. If you don’t appreciate it, send the editors a message. Or just ignore it. Either one works.

              Folau is a prominent rugby player. Josh is the editor of a sport’s website. You might not like it, but it’s Josh’s job to comment on these things. It’s what a bloody opinion writer does.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 6:13pm
                Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:13pm | ! Report

                Keep your hair on.

                You inferred Albo was being a simpleton and I pointed out things were not as clear as you suggested.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 9:06pm
                The Saint said | September 14th 2017 @ 9:06pm | ! Report

                Have you not taken your pills today AdelaideDocker?
                I thought so…

              • September 15th 2017 @ 10:52am
                Deir-ba-zor said | September 15th 2017 @ 10:52am | ! Report

                The Saint, I think you need to take a one way trip to somewhere where you will be forced to watch people burning the bible.

              • Roar Guru

                September 15th 2017 @ 5:30pm
                The Saint said | September 15th 2017 @ 5:30pm | ! Report

                Deir-ba-zor…don’t let my print name fool you!

              • September 15th 2017 @ 11:59pm
                Dier-ba-zor said | September 15th 2017 @ 11:59pm | ! Report

                Yup, it worked you replied and I won my bet.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 4:33pm
          I ate pies said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:33pm | ! Report

          The irony is that all the religion haters that hate religious people because of their beliefs call religious people bigots.

          • Roar Rookie

            September 14th 2017 @ 6:56pm
            piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:56pm | ! Report

            Being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as bigotry

            The very opposite in fact

            • September 14th 2017 @ 8:37pm
              me too said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:37pm | ! Report

              quite right. it’s called hypocrisy. and as long as people ignore both bigots and hypocrites we’ll be all be okay.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 10:24pm
              Train Without A Station said | September 14th 2017 @ 10:24pm | ! Report

              As the old saying goes, the standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

      • September 14th 2017 @ 5:15pm
        Rebellion said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:15pm | ! Report

        Give him a break FFS – he’s a god bothering worshiper of a faith who frowns upon gay marriage which is why he made the comment.
        These guys are athletes not politicians and as unpalatable as his opinion to many may be it’s not as if he has an obviously bad nature by any stretch (think James O’Connor).
        Some of you really need to stop polishing your halos and hop down from your soap boxes.
        It will go through and Izzy’s comments won’t be terribly influential I think you’ll find

        • September 15th 2017 @ 2:35pm
          matth said | September 15th 2017 @ 2:35pm | ! Report

          I haven;t read alol the comments, but so far no one, whatever their opinion, has actually said anything derogatory about Izzy.

      • September 15th 2017 @ 3:16pm
        KRS said | September 15th 2017 @ 3:16pm | ! Report

        Agreed Tony,

        This site doesn’t need self righteous sanctimonious articles like this.

        Extremely poor taste and would like to see The Roar returning to rugby articles

      • September 15th 2017 @ 3:55pm
        Real Wallabies Supporter said | September 15th 2017 @ 3:55pm | ! Report

        Tony, I agree with you, BUT I have to say this: when Turnbull or Shorten or sports stars (eg. Ian Thorpe) publicly say that they will vote “yes”, they do not receive any criticism whatsoever in the press or on social media (to my knowledge). This is huge double standards for Izzy to cop trenchant criticism of any kind over his opinion (not that he cares)! I am thoroughly sick of the bullying of people who say that they will vote “no”.

        • September 16th 2017 @ 1:51pm
          Col in paradise said | September 16th 2017 @ 1:51pm | ! Report

          I’m thoroughly sick of regions bullying people who don’t believe in their superstitious texts for centuries!!!

      • September 16th 2017 @ 6:05am
        Rebelpirate said | September 16th 2017 @ 6:05am | ! Report

        Agree. Who says that marriage equality is the popular opinion? That is still to be confirmed. However, keep the site for sports, not for politics or religion.

    • September 14th 2017 @ 1:03pm
      Beavis said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

      Everyone has a right to their opinion surely – how many have come out and expressed outrage at Pococks or Hoopers opinion on the topic. Whatever happened to free speech..

      • Roar Guru

        September 14th 2017 @ 1:04pm
        Train Without A Station said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:04pm | ! Report

        Free speech protects you from state persecution and censorship.

        Not the ire of the punters…

        • Roar Rookie

          September 14th 2017 @ 1:12pm
          piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:12pm | ! Report

          Precisely

        • Roar Guru

          September 14th 2017 @ 3:14pm
          stillmissit said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

          Very true TWAS: Can I say that I admire the way you have posted but stayed above the battle ground unlike myself… Can’t resist a good argument.

          • Roar Guru

            September 14th 2017 @ 3:29pm
            Train Without A Station said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:29pm | ! Report

            stillmissit I enjoy a good argument as much as the next bloke if it’s a matter I care about or feel people are making misleading comments about.

            But getting emotionally caught up only serves to distort the facts, etc. and you end up just repeating your view, not why you think it’s correct, or should be acknowledged and supported.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 6:12pm
          Toth said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:12pm | ! Report

          Thats correct, TWAS. However, in Australia we dont have freedom of spech. At least not by any piece of legislation or constitutional right. People seem to assume it means you can say whatever you want about any topic without consequence.

      • Roar Guru

        September 14th 2017 @ 1:22pm
        Corne Van Vuuren said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:22pm | ! Report

        Some things are best left unsaid, if someone in the public eye decide to comment on subjects that can be controversial they open themselves up for judgement.

        Folau should know that.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 1:27pm
          mtiger said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:27pm | ! Report

          Agree, Folau should know that. So should Pocock and Hooper.

          There is a vote on this issue. People do not to have been pigeon-holed all the time. The fact of a vote already represents willingness to live and let live.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 3:14pm
          cuw said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

          @ biltongbek

          but the other side of the coin is , it is their status that draws attention and also makes them say such things.

          if u or i say it noone will give too hoots.

          what is prevalent in this world is that people who are celebs, go ahead making these statements and get away with it.

          most of the time they know exactly what they are doing.

          do u remember how Madonna said she will b**w anyone who voted against Trump ? i am sure many did not want that and voted for him 😀 😛

          • Roar Guru

            September 14th 2017 @ 5:10pm
            Corne Van Vuuren said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:10pm | ! Report

            Yes absolutely, exactly why he should know controversial issues should be left alone

        • September 15th 2017 @ 12:28am
          RBBAnonymous said | September 15th 2017 @ 12:28am | ! Report

          I thought Folau responded because he felt the ARU was speaking on his behalf. Clearly they were not.

          • September 15th 2017 @ 4:44pm
            Akari said | September 15th 2017 @ 4:44pm | ! Report

            Folau could tear up his ARU contract and return to rugby league or AFL or to a quiet private life if he so wants.

            • September 15th 2017 @ 6:25pm
              RBBAnonymous said | September 15th 2017 @ 6:25pm | ! Report

              The ARU could do likewise.

              • September 16th 2017 @ 10:22am
                Akari said | September 16th 2017 @ 10:22am | ! Report

                Folau is speaking out against his employer and he could take the extra step into oblivion.

              • September 16th 2017 @ 11:03am
                RBBAnonymous said | September 16th 2017 @ 11:03am | ! Report

                My point still stands if the ARU isn’t happy they can always rip up Folau’s contract. Would that make you happy.

      • Editor

        September 14th 2017 @ 1:38pm
        Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:38pm | ! Report

        I agree Beavis and have said as much in the article. It’s disingenuous however to suggest that this particular opinion is compatible with genuine love and respect for the people it concerns.

        As pointed out by TWAS, “freedom of speech” simply means it’s not illegal to put any view forward, and at no point have I suggested that it ought to be.

        It does not mean that you are absolved from any criticism of the view you put forward, otherwise a lot of the comments on my articles would be illegal! 🙂

        • Roar Guru

          September 14th 2017 @ 2:31pm
          PeterK said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:31pm | ! Report

          I disagree that his opinion is not compatible with genuine love and respect.

          I understand that for you it would be.

          IMO it all depends on what a person feels the purpose, or point is of the social construct marriage.

          Depending on what his perspective of that is it is entirely possible Folau does have genuine respect yet also believe he should vote no.

          It is not as black and white as you paint.

          There are nuances or grey.

          Unless of course only agreeing with your opinion can be the only correct answer.

          • Editor

            September 14th 2017 @ 2:54pm
            Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:54pm | ! Report

            Nope, you’re welcome to disagree Peter.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 3:25pm
            Joe B said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:25pm | ! Report

            I was listening to a Pastor on radio this morning (Pastor Josh on 98.5fm in Perth around 10am), he said homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, like alcoholism (his words), and gay people should be forgiven, for their sins, and not celebrated… and marriage is between a man and woman only, as written in the bible.
            Given that Folau was indoctrinated in a religious belief system, also christian, his views are probably the same. IMO, genuine love and respect differs from the secular notion of love and respect.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 7:52pm
              Akari said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:52pm | ! Report

              marriage is between a man and woman only, as written in the bible

              Did that pastor do the honourable thing and provided evidence to support his claim, Joe B?

              • September 14th 2017 @ 10:08pm
                Council said | September 14th 2017 @ 10:08pm | ! Report

                Or maybe he was a Catholic priest, and while gay’s are the devil, little boys are fair game.

                Hypocrisy, one of the biggest reasons people cannot stand religion.

                Don’t sleep with another man, or thou shalt burn in the fiery depths of hell.

                Don’t wear mixed materials, or thou shalt burn in hell.

                You realise that the book about your imaginary friend is a couple of thousand years old, written by people that thought the sun revolved around the world?

                Ever notice how each religion believes they are the only ones that are right, and everyone else is a heathen.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 15th 2017 @ 12:04pm
                piru said | September 15th 2017 @ 12:04pm | ! Report

                marriage is between a man and woman only, as written in the bible

                Did that pastor do the honourable thing and provided evidence to support his claim, Joe B?

                I doubt it as the bible has repeated references to polygamy – which we’ve heard here is far far worse than teh gayz getting married

              • September 15th 2017 @ 12:41pm
                clipper said | September 15th 2017 @ 12:41pm | ! Report

                The funny thing is that priests many centuries ago were allowed to get married – might’ve solved a few problems if that was still the case today. Unfortunately for the Catholic church, these priests would die and leave the money to the wife, or worse still the church would have to look after the wife until her death. A brilliant answer was to bring in a new edict saying they had to remain pure, so that upon death all assets went straight back to the church.

              • September 15th 2017 @ 2:34pm
                Go the Wannabe's said | September 15th 2017 @ 2:34pm | ! Report

                The Bible’s had a few revision’s since it was written. Most of it was first written a couple of hundred years after Jesus (if he existed).

                The song put’s it best…..the things that you’re liable, to read in the Bible, they ain’t necessarily so………

            • September 14th 2017 @ 9:37pm
              DavSA said | September 14th 2017 @ 9:37pm | ! Report

              Joe B , in South Africa religious rights are cast in concrete ……..However Human rights hold sway . …….It works.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 3:08pm
          scottd said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:08pm | ! Report

          Josh,

          I think that depends on whether you think marriage is a civil construct or a religious one. I am sure someone will have the actual numbers but I believe that a significant portion of the community believe that marriage is a religious matter and choose to not marry at all. They are quite comfortable expressing their commitment to one another in the way they lead their lives together and are happy that their rights in law are protected.

          For those that don’t believe in marriage at all or that believe marriage is an outdated construct (or in my sisters case believe that marriage is “stupid” (yes that is a direct quote), they certainly can have great respect and love for others without feeling the need to vote “yes” in this matter.

          For the record I am not suggesting this is Izzy’s position but simply express the view that I’m not sure that the world is as black or white as you have suggested. 🙂

          • Editor

            September 14th 2017 @ 3:21pm
            Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:21pm | ! Report

            Cheers scottd. I agree that marriage can potentially be seen in a variety of ways and I think that if an SSM couple sees it an a way that works for them they should have access to it. If Folau sees it in a way that works for him, he should have the same, and he already does.

        • September 14th 2017 @ 4:35pm
          Beavis said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:35pm | ! Report

          Perhaps I wasn’t referring to you per se but plenty of others who have criticized him

    • September 14th 2017 @ 1:03pm
      Dodo Vita said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

      He’s free to think what he likes.

      Speaking of respect and support, if Michael Cheika wants the support and respect of some of the crusty old Wallaby supporters of Australia can I suggest that he has a shave before he turns up at The Lodge for a formal gathering with the PM. He looked like a slob and it gives the impression of poor attitude, lack of discipline and general lack of professionalism. Not the traits we want to see in our national rugby side. Lead by example, man!

    • September 14th 2017 @ 1:04pm
      Stephen Chen said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:04pm | ! Report

      Wrong website for this. Shame on The Roar.

      • September 14th 2017 @ 1:46pm
        Dave_S said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:46pm | ! Report

        What’s shameful about it?

        You could simply have chosen not to read it.

        Judging by the number of comments on a related thread, a lot of other Roarers are interested in the issue. That in itself tends to justify the existence of this article.

    • Roar Guru

      September 14th 2017 @ 1:07pm
      PeterK said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:07pm | ! Report

      by your definition you would have to support polygamy, just more people loving each other wanting to enter into marriage

      • September 14th 2017 @ 1:10pm
        Stephen Chen said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:10pm | ! Report

        Love is love!

        • Roar Rookie

          September 14th 2017 @ 1:13pm
          piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:13pm | ! Report

          And what is actually wrong with polygamy if all parties are consenting?

          Apart from having multiple wives yelling at you when you come home from the pub

          • September 14th 2017 @ 1:28pm
            Karl Knuth said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:28pm | ! Report

            Well what would be wrong with incest then Piru? As long as everyone is consenting? Or maybe even beastiality? Animals can communicate with us and have feelings too, just ask all the animals rights activists. Can a dog feel love, can they convey that love and then be married to a person?

            Or what about the age of consent? Surely a consenting 12 or 14 year old has just as many rights as everyone else in the country?
            How could we dare discriminate against them?

            • Roar Rookie

              September 14th 2017 @ 1:43pm
              piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:43pm | ! Report

              Several very different kettles of fish

              Bringing up unrelated issues to try and muddy the waters seems to be the only argument the No side has been able to muster so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 2:32pm
                Karl K said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:32pm | ! Report

                That’s because it is a valid argument Piru. Legally, with your logic – how could you deny an incestuous marriage to consenting adults?

              • Roar Rookie

                September 14th 2017 @ 3:09pm
                piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:09pm | ! Report

                it’s not valid mate, not in the least

              • Roar Rookie

                September 14th 2017 @ 3:13pm
                piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:13pm | ! Report

                incest is illegal for very valid reasons – as is pedophilia and beastiality

              • September 14th 2017 @ 5:56pm
                Charlie Turner said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:56pm | ! Report

                Karl incest is illegal for reasons of genetic incompatibility, but you knew that and beastiality ……wtf? I disagree with the Folau critics but ffs put forward a rational argument.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 1:51pm
              Nugget said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:51pm | ! Report

              Oh dear. That hoary old chestnut, the slippery slope argument. Did you notice someone wanted to marry the Eiffel Tower.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 14th 2017 @ 2:05pm
                piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:05pm | ! Report

                I’m just worried that the curtains will fade and the cows won’t know what time it is

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 2:08pm
                Hoy said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:08pm | ! Report

                HEY!!! Those are valid arguments against that dastardly daylight savings… we need to keep those arguments valid, because bugger me if the stupid clock switch isn’t coming up again soon…

              • Roar Rookie

                September 14th 2017 @ 3:51pm
                Dave_S said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:51pm | ! Report

                Yeah, I am yes on SSM and no on daylight savings! The North will prevail!

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 5:13pm
                Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:13pm | ! Report

                Might be a smooth move for tax purposes ..

            • September 14th 2017 @ 2:07pm
              Ruckin Oaf said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:07pm | ! Report

              Actually 12 or 14 year olds don’t have the same rights as everybody in the country. They can’t vote, they can’t get a licence to drive, they (mostly) can’t enter into contractual arrangements, there parents or guardians can decide on medical treatment on their behalf, there exists a rebuttal presumption as to their capacity for criminal behavior etc etc

              There are a number of areas where children do not have the same rights as adults.

              The last thing this debate really needs is ignorance but please feel free to add more.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 2:37pm
                Karl K said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:37pm | ! Report

                What I am saying is that while that may be the case now, who is to say that things will still be that way in 30 years? If you’d told someone 30 years ago that there would be a vote on gay marriage in 2017 they’ve have laughed at you.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 8:27pm
                Brian George said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:27pm | ! Report

                And if you’d told White Australians 150 years ago that there’d be a vote in 1967 on whether blacks would be allowed to vote they’d have laughed at you.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 2:41pm
                Ruckin Oaf said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:41pm | ! Report

                No what you said was:

                “Surely a consenting 12 or 14 year old has just as many rights as everyone else in the country?”

                This is wrong, incredibly wrong, wrong on so many levels it’s incredible. It’s one of the wrongest things ever written even by the standards of the internet and that’s saying something.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 2:57pm
                Karl K said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:57pm | ! Report

                That’s right it is wrong, that’s why it was written with sarcasm.

                Because 12-14 yr olds should not have the same rights as adults, and it is my fear that if we go down this path where anyone can marry anyone then that may one day become a reality.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 15th 2017 @ 3:03pm
                Paulo said | September 15th 2017 @ 3:03pm | ! Report

                That doesnt make any sense to conflate the two things. You are drawing a comparision to a homosexual adult and a 12 yr old? That makes no logical sense to draw a comparision.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 3:08pm
                Ruckin Oaf said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:08pm | ! Report

                Well when Trump said something stupid he doubled down and went with it – heck now he’s president.

                So I can see why you would give it a go. But a more mature mind normally just admits to a mistake and moves on.

                Same sex marriage has been around in various countries for over 15 years. In which of those countries is polygamous, bestial or underage marriages now also prevalent ?

                How does allowing consenting same gender adults an equal right to marry automatically lead to the marriage of children ? Especially considering the historical changes to the marriageable ages in this country.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 3:28pm
                Karl K said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:28pm | ! Report

                You can throw barbs all day- but the fact remains that if everyone agreed on everything the world would be a very boring place.

                If you don’t think that there are strong minority groups alive in the country that would see all of those detestable acts legalised then I’m sorry but you are wrong.

                You can argue that my opinion is stupid and immature but at the end of the day I’ve at least put my name behind it and tried to voice my opinion reasonably.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 3:40pm
                Ruckin Oaf said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:40pm | ! Report

                “You can throw barbs all day-”

                Glad to.

                “If you don’t think that there are strong minority groups alive in the country that would see all of those detestable acts legalised then I’m sorry but you are wrong.”

                And what do these groups have to do with same sex marriage – roughly nothing.

                “You can argue that my opinion is stupid and immature…..”

                Indeed that is the likely reaction to a stupid and immature opinion.

                “I’ve at least put my name behind it..”

                Well nope you’ve put part of a name behind it. And what extra weight does your name give exactly?

                “……..and tried to voice my opinion reasonably.”

                Again nope you’ve tried to conflate homosexuality with bestiality and pedophilia that’s not reasonable it’s ignorant and offensive.

              • September 14th 2017 @ 4:59pm
                Karl K said | September 14th 2017 @ 4:59pm | ! Report

                “And what do these groups have to do with same sex marriage – roughly nothing.”

                Roughly everything actually. The Greens have stated this is only the beginning, and that they will definitely push for polygamy once this is through. We will probably vote it through as well. Simply because we are the most apathetic nation on the face of the earth.

                h ttp://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/greens-confirm-gay-marriage-is-just-the-start/news-story/e907aec54b7ee4ad020bc425c5a71040

                “I’ve at least put my name behind it..”

                Well nope you’ve put part of a name behind it. And what extra weight does your name give exactly?

                Sorry, see my first post. Sometimes it only logs me on as a guest. It’s no extra weight- it just shows that I’m not afraid to have my opinions voiced online come back to me personally. Rather than just having a username.

                “……..and tried to voice my opinion reasonably.”

                Again nope you’ve tried to conflate homosexuality with bestiality and pedophilia that’s not reasonable it’s ignorant and offensive.

                I don’t believe it is offensive to state my own opinion, just as you are not afraid to voice yours.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 14th 2017 @ 5:59pm
                piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:59pm | ! Report

                You just posted an Andrew Bolt article as evidence

                Bro you’re done

              • September 14th 2017 @ 6:27pm
                Ruckin' Oaf said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:27pm | ! Report

                Hey Karl K,

                Same sex marriage has been around for over 15 years now. How many countries have moved from legalising same sex marriage to legalising polygamous marriage.

                Roughly none.

                And if you want to quote the greens quote the greens. why you’d quote Andrew Bolt as an authority on green policy is beyond me.

                “I don’t believe it is offensive to state my own opinion, ….”

                Well I’m glad we can agree on ignorant as least. And here’s the thing buddy if you write something offensive it’s offensive. Doesn’t matter if it’s opinion or not.

            • Roar Guru

              September 14th 2017 @ 3:28pm
              XI said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:28pm | ! Report

              Animals, children and inanimate objects can’t consent. Your argument is invalid.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 5:15pm
                Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:15pm | ! Report

                Well for children that would depend on the definition of what age someone remains a “child” and whether they are capable of consent or not is matter of some debate.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 10:49pm
              scottd said | September 14th 2017 @ 10:49pm | ! Report

              well I know what i was doing at 14 🙂

          • Roar Guru

            September 14th 2017 @ 2:25pm
            PeterK said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:25pm | ! Report

            nothing , at least you would have multiple husbands to commiserate with

            • Roar Rookie

              September 14th 2017 @ 2:47pm
              piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:47pm | ! Report

              Imagine how much easier it would be to get the yard work done

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 3:02pm
                PeterK said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:02pm | ! Report

                yep drink my beer whilst watching the rugby and supervising all my husbands and wives work

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 5:17pm
                Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:17pm | ! Report

                Ha ha ha, in my imagination it’s so perfect.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 14th 2017 @ 5:20pm
                piru said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:20pm | ! Report

                You’d definitely need some sort of roster, but imagine when it was your week off!

              • September 14th 2017 @ 8:08pm
                Max Power said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:08pm | ! Report

        • September 14th 2017 @ 3:29pm
          Mapu said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:29pm | ! Report

          why shouldn’t gay people be miserable to?

        • September 14th 2017 @ 3:29pm
          Mapu said | September 14th 2017 @ 3:29pm | ! Report

          Na just kidding…I love you honey

      • September 14th 2017 @ 1:18pm
        Jake said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:18pm | ! Report

        yeh and?

      • Editor

        September 14th 2017 @ 1:52pm
        Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:52pm | ! Report

        Yup.

        • Roar Guru

          September 14th 2017 @ 2:26pm
          PeterK said | September 14th 2017 @ 2:26pm | ! Report

          Good, I respect that, you are at least consistent

          • September 14th 2017 @ 7:37pm
            soapit said | September 14th 2017 @ 7:37pm | ! Report

            id be open to it peter but i think it would perhaps make legal rights more complex but the main reason it wont change for some time on this is because the status quo isnt discriminating against a portion of society based on how they were born
            and this is where the separation lies.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 8:27pm
            #10 said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:27pm | ! Report

            Pete /Josh – polygamous marriages can’t, by definition, have equal love. The idea of marriage is that two people love each other equally, that they want to commit, to each other, for life.

            Now, how does a third or fourth person fit into this equation? Let’s assume it’s the bloke who has the multiple wives (the idiot). The wives obviously wouldn’t love each other equally, and certainly not as much as they each love the husband. The husband, well, he’s probably going to have a favourite – so he’s not loving people equally, and clearly isn’t committed to one person (as both his wives are). So what you’ve got is two wives who, assuming they’re both completely in love with the husband, are both going to have a husband who’s love & commitment falls well short of what they’re offering him.

            This is actually the antithesis of entering an equal, committed, loving relationship this whole debate is about. So, I guess you can stick this one on the bestiality / harbor bridge / kids pile.

            • September 15th 2017 @ 3:50am
              soapit said | September 15th 2017 @ 3:50am | ! Report

              funny how many of these arguments ;like “why not allow polygamy” only seem like good points because they are so random and irrelevant nobodies bothered to consider it previously and dont have the obvious reason against at the tip of their tongues.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 15th 2017 @ 10:55am
                piru said | September 15th 2017 @ 10:55am | ! Report

                yep – I actually love when they bring up polygamy, when you ask them to explain why it’s bad you get hilarious stuff like the above

              • September 15th 2017 @ 7:20pm
                mickyo said | September 15th 2017 @ 7:20pm | ! Report

                The Syrian immigrant to Germany with 4 wives and 25 kids, scoring 30,000 euros does OK, the Muslims in England who marry, divorce, marry, divorce, marry, divorce western style but stay married in a Muslim sense love setting up their wives on single mothers pensions all in their own council flat on pensions and frequent different flats when they want love that as well.

    • Roar Guru

      September 14th 2017 @ 1:09pm
      AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:09pm | ! Report

      I love this, Josh.

      I have nothing against Folau – honestly, he can say whatever he wants, and vote whichever way he wants – but his tweet stinks of hypocrisy.

      With his words, and the emojis, it strikes such a positive tone, but it’s nothing positive at all. It’s almost impressive how light-heartedly he’s announced he won’t support something.

      • Editor

        September 14th 2017 @ 1:52pm
        Josh Elliott said | September 14th 2017 @ 1:52pm | ! Report

        Couldn’t agree more AD, cheers.

      • Roar Guru

        September 14th 2017 @ 5:16pm
        Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:16pm | ! Report

        Why wouldn’t love and respect have positive tones?!?

        • Roar Guru

          September 14th 2017 @ 5:24pm
          AdelaideDocker said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:24pm | ! Report

          “I love and respect all people for who they are and their opinions. but personally, I will not support gay marriage”

          AKA: I don’t mind the gays, but they shouldn’t have the same rights as I do as a straight dude.

          Again, I don’t care if he votes no. Thousands will.

          But to say it in a tweet in which the individual manages to switch very quickly between acceptance and rejection in one bloody sentence is hypocrisy, not matter who says it.

          • Roar Guru

            September 14th 2017 @ 5:55pm
            Ralph said | September 14th 2017 @ 5:55pm | ! Report

            in other words..

            Well now you just putting words in his mouth he didn’t say.

          • September 14th 2017 @ 6:17pm
            Toth said | September 14th 2017 @ 6:17pm | ! Report

            Its very clearly done to distance himself from any spray. ‘How do I show my disaproval of same sex marriage without tarnishing my brand?’ Prior to asking that, the first draft pf the tweet was ‘I’m homophobic and I don’t support same sex marriage’

          • September 15th 2017 @ 12:47pm
            clipper said | September 15th 2017 @ 12:47pm | ! Report

            I don’t think he connected the two, AD – most people just tweet without thinking – you would expect more after all the backlashes that can happen.

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