The Roar’s 2017 AFL trade period report card – every club graded, as voted by you

Josh Elliott Editor

By Josh Elliott, Josh Elliott is a Roar Editor

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    The 2017 AFL trade and free agency period came to an end yesterday and we asked you to help us grade the performance of every club.

    Thanks to all those who put in their votes. We’ve tallied them up and I’ve put in my own personal grades for each club as well. In some cases you and I are on the same page – in others, that is very much not the case!

    Adelaide Crows

    In: Bryce Gibbs, Sam Gibson, pick 12, pick 39, pick 77, Melbourne’s 2018 first-round pick, Carlton’s 2018 second-round pick, Carlton’s 2018 third-round pick, Melbourne’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Out: Jake Lever, Charlie Cameron, Harrison Wigg, pick 16, pick 54, pick 73, pick 91, Adelaide’s 2018 second-round pick, Adelaide’s 2018 third-round pick, Adelaide’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Adelaide overpaid for Bryce Gibbs – there’s no way to get around that fact when you look at the sheer amount of draft capital given up to secure him.

    However, by virtue of the inclusion of a future second-round pick from Carlton, the deal is a better one than it was last year, and worth doing to give the team some hope of improvement on the personnel front next year.

    Further to that, they more than balanced this out by getting a very good return for Jake Lever, and a significantly overvalue return for Charlie Cameron.

    They lost those players, and that’s a bummer, but at the end of the day they’ve got the mature midfielder they want to bolster their team, pick 12 this year, and two-maybe-three top 20 picks next year.

    Also, thanks for giving Gibbo a lifeline.

    The Crowd’s grade: B (53 per cent)
    My grade: A

    Bryce Gibbs Sam Gibson Adelaide Crows AFL

    (Photo by Scott Barbour/Getty Images)

    Brisbane Lions

    In: Charlie Cameron, Luke Hodge, pick 15, pick 18, pick 40, pick 44.

    Out: Tom Rockliff, Josh Schache, pick 12, pick 20, pick 43, pick 75.

    Brisbane successfully landed both of the players that they wanted to in Charlie Cameron and Luke Hodge, while finding deals for those they wanted to move on, albeit not until the final moments of the trade period.

    However they didn’t really win any of their individual deals – pick 12 for Charlie Cameron is overpaying no matter how you look at it, and picks 25 and 40 for Josh Schache goes vastly in the opposite direction.

    It should be an enormous concern for the AFL that a Queensland-based team is forced to pay so much to bring a local player home, but is expected to receive so little in return for a Victorian player who wants to leave.

    The Schache deal was made even worse by the fact they then used pick 25 to upgrade pick 20 to pick 15 – is that really all a bloke taken at pick 2 in 2015 was worth?

    The net result is that they’ve essentially traded Tom Rockliff and Josh Schache for Charlie Cameron and two years of Luke Hodge, plus some minor pick shuffling. That’s not good.

    The Crowd’s grade: B (46 per cent)
    My grade: D

    Carlton Blues

    In: Matthew Kennedy, Darcy Lang, Matthew Lobbe, pick 10, pick 30, pick 73, Bulldogs’ 2018 second-round pick, Adelaide’s 2018 second-round pick, Geelong’s 2018 second-round pick.

    Out: Bryce Gibbs, pick 40, pick 58, pick 95, Carlton’s 2018 second-round pick, Carlton’s 2018 third-round pick, Carlton’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Carlton finally made the call to trade Bryce Gibbs and it was a good one – they got a more than fair price from the Adelaide Crows considering his age, and that allowed them to spin off minor pieces into deals for Matthew Kennedy and Darcy Lang.

    In addition to that they still get to keep a good hand at this year’s draft boasting two picks inside the top 10 and another inside the top 30.

    Trading out most of their own future picks for the 2018 draft is something that could come back to haunt them if they once again have a low finish, and that seems more likely than not with Gibbs gone.

    However they’ve balanced it out by investing in other clubs’ second-round picks which should help them match bids for what might be a bumper crop of father-son players in 2018.

    The Crowd’s grade: B (37 per cent)
    My grade: A

    Collingwood Magpies

    In: Sam Murray, pick 70, Sydney’s 2018 third-round pick.

    Out: Collingwood’s 2018 second-round pick.

    Collingwood made only a single transaction for the entire trade period, and that transaction was to trade out their 2018 second-round pick – potentially a top 25 pick if they again have a bad year – for a rookie-listed player with no profile and who has never played a game, and some spare change.

    That restructure of the list management team cannot come soon enough.

    The Crowd’s grade: D (45 per cent)
    My grade: F

    Essendon Bombers

    In: Jake Stringer, Devon Smith, Adam Saad, GWS’ 2018 second-round pick.

    Out: Pick 11, pick 30, Essendon’s 2018 second-round pick, Essendon’s 2018 third-round pick.

    The Bombers identified three very talented targets and managed to secure them all without selling the farm to do so – vitally, they still retain their first-round pick in next year’s draft. Bravo.

    Jake Stringer obviously has some ways to go before he can really be considered a winner but if in his time at Essendon he hits form anywhere near the level of his 2015 season he’ll have been a massive bargain.

    Devon Smtih and Adam Saad are both your classic underrated types who Victorian fans will now get a closer look at and come to love. Smith in particular will surprise many with just how high his cieling is.

    The Crowd’s grade: A (68 per cent)
    My grade: A

    Adrian Dodoro Essendon Bombers AFL

    (Photo by Michael Dodge/AFL Media/Getty Images)

    Fremantle Dockers

    In: Nathan Wilson, Brandon Matera, pick 2, pick 66, pick 71, pick 83.

    Out: Lachie Weller, Harley Balic, Hayden Crozier, Fremantle’s 2018 second-round pick, Fremantle’s 2018 third-round pick, Fremantle’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Things looked to be teetering on the edge of disaster when Lachie Weller asked for a trade – Wilson in, Weller out didn’t really seem like much of a net gain of talent this year, if any at all.

    But then Fremantle asked for pick 2 for Weller – a fine young player, but by no means worth pick 2 – and they got it. Snowballs have had better chances of success in hell than that request did, and yet here we are.

    As a result Fremantle have two top five picks at the draft (while still retaining next year’s first) and a roughly even amount of talent coming into versus going out of the club. Winner winner.

    The Crowd’s grade: A (52 per cent)
    My grade: A

    Geelong Cats

    In: Gary Ablett, pick 24, pick 58, Richmond’s 2018 third-round pick, Gold Coast’s 2018 fourth-round pick, Carlton’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Out: Steven Motlop, Darcy Lang, pick 53, Geelong’s 2018 second-round pick, Geelong’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    The Cats completed their mission in this trade period which was to land Gary Ablett and, thanks to the wildly unbalanced free agency compensation pick that came their way from the AFL, managed to do so while retaining two top 25 picks this year, although they gave up their 2018 second-rounder.

    However, they did ultimately fall short on pursuits for both Jake Stringer and Jack Watts, and lost Darcy Lang – for a team that has talked about ‘rebuilding’ its list, their focus was entirely on recruiting a 33-year-old.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m as excited as anyone for the second coming, and it may well win Geelong a flag in the short term – but if you take the sentiment out of this it would be seen as a significant gamble.

    The Crowd’s grade: B (43 per cent)
    My grade: B

    Gary Ablett AFL Geelong Cats

    (Photo by Scott Barbour/Getty Images)

    Gold Coast Suns

    In: Lachie Weller, Aaron Young, Harrison Wigg, pick 19, pick 41, pick 50, pick 54, West Coast’s 2018 first-round pick, Essendon’s 2018 second-round pick, Geelong’s 2018 second-round pick, Fremantle’s 2018 third-round pick.

    Out: Gary Ablett, Adam Saad, Brandon Matera, pick 2, pick 21, pick 24, pick 26, pick 37, Gold Coast’s 2016 second-round pick.

    Pick 2 for Lachie Weller.

    Look, I understand the argument that a somewhat mature player who actively wants to be at the club is potentially more valuable to Gold Coast then a new draftee, no matter how talented.

    I understand the point of view that Weller is more likely be at the club in four years time than a fresh draftee, who may leave for peanuts after his initial contract.

    But that kind of defeatist logic should not be used by AFL list managers. If you’re giving up on your ability to retain players before they even arrive at the club, you’re going nowhere.

    And if you have to pay a talented-but-not-elite player $4 million over five years and give up pick 2 in the draft just to get them to your football club, you’re not much of a football club.

    The Crowd’s grade: C (34 per cent)
    My grade: F

    GWS Giants

    In: Pick 11, pick 28, pick 57, Fremantle’s 2018 second-round pick, Essendon’s 2018 third-round pick.

    Out: Devon Smith, Nathan Wilson, Matthew Kennedy, pick 25, pick 71, GWS’ 2018 second-round pick.

    The Giants again made the best of a disappointing situation when several players wanted out and by moving quickly in the early part of the trade period were able to beat both Gold Coast and the Bulldogs in the race for Essendon’s pick 11.

    The Crowd’s grade: C (56 per cent)
    My grade: B

    Hawthorn Hawks

    In: Jarman Impey, pick 43, pick 68, pick 75.

    Out: Luke Hodge, pick 34, pick 44, pick 62, Hawthorn’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    What exactly is it that Hawthorn hate so much about taking draft picks anywhere in the first half of the night?

    Jarman Impey offers speed and could be a solid pickup, and I appreciate that their hands were a bit tied this year by having little available to trade.

    Still, it surprises me that they didn’t at least consider pursuing free agency a little more, and I’m not sure what their overall list strategy is at the moment. I’m not sure they’re sure either, which is worrying.

    The Crowd’s grade: C (50 per cent)
    My grade: D

    Melbourne Demons

    In: Jake Lever, Harley Balic, pick 31, pick 36, Adelaide’s 2018 third-round pick.

    Out: Jack Watts, pick 10, pick 66, Melbourne’s 2018 first-round pick, Melbourne’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Melbourne paid a lot to recruit Jake Lever but he will prove to be worth every penny – there’s no other player his age who is anything like him, and the Demons will find themselves a with a unique, elite player in their backline for ten years to come.

    Harley Balic I like too and he came cheap. No complaints.

    Unlike most I am guessing, I reckon trading out Jack Watts was a good call. He’s been little other than a headache for near on ten years and there’s a point where it’s just not worth the effort anymore.

    Melbourne will have a quiet few years at the draft table but have assembled more than enough talent to take them to the pointy end of the ladder over the next decade.

    The Crowd’s grade: B (52 per cent)
    My grade: A

    North Melbourne Kangaroos

    In: Pick 91, St Kilda’s 2018 third-round pick, West Coasts’ 2018 third-round pick.

    Out: Sam Gibson, pick 46, North Melbourne’s 2018 third-round pick.

    North Melbourne made noise about Dustin Martin and Josh Kelly this year but ultimately delivered nothing.

    I’m glad that the Roos didn’t decide to trade in players who wouldn’t take the club forward just for the sake of appearing active, but there’s no mistaking it – this is a failed trade period.

    The Crowd’s grade: D (40 per cent)
    My grade: F

    Port Adelaide Power

    In: Tom Rockliff, Steven Motlop, Jack Watts, pick 46, pick 59, pick 62, pick 63, pick 95, St Kilda’s 2018 second-round pick, North Melbourne’s 2018 third-round pick.

    Out: Jackson Trengove, Jarman Impey, Brendon Ah Chee, Aaron Young, Logan Austin, Matthew Lobbe, pick 31, Porth Adelaide’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Port Adelaide traded out six players this year and ultimately came away with no real return for any of them other than to clear out a bit of salary cap space.

    This is counterbalanced by the fact that they brought in three players, certainly a net gain of talent, without really giving up anything either.

    They have essentially lost depth but gained talent, and many see that as an excellent result for the Power, one that can push them to premiership contention.

    Personally, I’m a long way from being sold on the idea. Motlop and Watts have consistenly been headaches for their previous clubs and I’m not conviced things will be different at Port Adelaide.

    Rockliff is a player I like and a solid enough recruit, but I have my doubts as to whether he’s the missing link between Port Adelaide and a premiership.

    Acquiring Rockliff and Motlop as the only two free agents of note left on the list at the end of the year and Watts, a player rejected by his own club, feels more like taking what you can get than targetting what you need.

    They haven’t sold the farm to bring in any of these players but they’ve tied up something in the area of $1.5 million to $2 million of salary cap in long-term contracts for them.

    That comes at an opportunity cost and if these players don’t lift Port to the next level in 2018 they may find themselves regretting being too eager instead of waiting for the right time to strike and make a big signing.

    The Crowd’s grade: A (67 per cent)
    My grade: D

    (Photo by Michael Willson/AFL Media/Getty Images)

    Richmond Tigers

    In: Pick 20, pick 25, pick 53.

    Out: Pick 15, Richmond’s 2018 third-round pick.

    Didn’t do much, didn’t need to.

    The Crowd’s grade: C (45 per cent)
    My grade: C

    St Kilda Saints

    In: Logan Austin, pick 34, Port Adelaide’s 2018 fourth-round pick, Adelaide’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Out: Pick 59, pick 63, St Kilda’s 2018 second-round pick, St Kilda’s 2018 third-round pick.

    A variety of creative attempts to trade picks 7 and 8 for mature talent or shuffle them higher in the draft order ultimately came to naught, but that’s by no means a bad result for St Kilda, if not a particularly attention-grabbing one. There’s nothing wrong the slow, patient play.

    The Crowd’s grade: C (44 per cent)
    My grade: C

    Sydney Swans

    In: Collingwood’s 2018 second-round pick.

    Out: Sam Murray, pick 70 and Sydney’s 2018 third-round pick.

    Out goes the rookie who never played a game, in comes a second-round draft pick. Only a small piece of business but a very nifty one.

    The Crowd’s grade: C (40 per cent)
    My grade: B

    West Coast Eagles

    In: Brendon Ah Chee, pick 21, pick 26, pick 37, Gold Coast’s 2018 second-round pick, Hawthorn’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Out: Pick 50, West Coast’s 2018 first-round pick, West Coast’s 2018 third-round pick.

    We’ll need to see how things pan out over the next few years with the draft before definitively saying whether or not the deal with Gold Coast was a mistake, but for a team that looks headed for the cliff to trade their future first-round pick out strikes me as a recipe for disaster.

    The Crowd’s grade: C (49 per cent)
    My grade: D

    Western Bulldogs

    In: Josh Schache, Jackson Trengove, Hayden Crozier, pick 16, Fremantle’s 2018 fourth-round pick.

    Out: Jake Stringer, pick 28, pick 41, pick 83, Bulldogs’ 2018 second-round pick.

    I thought that the Jake Stringer deal had become a lose-lose situaiton and if you looked at them accepting pick 25 and pick 30 for him that seemed to be the case.

    However they followed this up by making two quality deals to bring in pick 16 and Josh Schache, essentially at the overall cost of Stringer and two second-round picks.

    I still have to knock them down a few points for passsing up their chance at pick 11 when it was on the table, but they’ve ultimately done well, much better than I expected.

    On Thursday morning I had them pegged for an F as the slowest students in the class, but they turned it around admirably.

    The Crowd’s grade: B (35 per cent)
    My grade: B

    Josh Elliott
    Josh Elliott

    Josh Elliott may be The Roar's Weekend Editor, but at heart he's just a rusted-on North Melbourne tragic with a penchant for pun headlines - and also abnormal alliteration, assuredly; assuming achievability. He once finished third in a hot chilli pie eating contest. You can follow him on Twitter @JoshElliott_29 and listen to him on The Roar's AFL Podcast.

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    The Crowd Says (232)

    • Roar Guru

      October 20th 2017 @ 8:55am
      Rick Figjam said | October 20th 2017 @ 8:55am | ! Report

      Gambling wins you the flag, Josh. Playing safe wins you the spoon.

      GO CATS!

      • October 20th 2017 @ 1:16pm
        Brian said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

        Or in your case gambling gets you a Prelim Final thrashing.

      • Roar Pro

        October 20th 2017 @ 10:27pm
        Alphingtonian said | October 20th 2017 @ 10:27pm | ! Report

        Geelong will get nowhere near a flag next year and after that it’s glasses down as they are forced in to a huge rebuild. Their whole list management strategy over the last 6 years has and will continue to be a huge failure.

        • Roar Guru

          October 21st 2017 @ 9:18am
          Rick Figjam said | October 21st 2017 @ 9:18am | ! Report

          Didn’t you write some $h!t article about how they’ll get flogged in the semi against Sydney?

          • Roar Guru

            October 21st 2017 @ 9:46am
            Cat said | October 21st 2017 @ 9:46am | ! Report

            On Friday night, the Cats face the Swans at the MCG in a do-or-die semi-final, where we’ll witness the Geelong wave that has been building since 2011 finally come crashing down in a furious, chaotic mess, leaving many naive or unsuspecting fans dumped and gasping for air.

            Yeah, he did.

            • October 21st 2017 @ 2:42pm
              Peter the Scribe said | October 21st 2017 @ 2:42pm | ! Report

              Big deal he was one week early on what did happen on the preliminary

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:11am
                Don Freo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:11am | ! Report

                He has still been constantly wrong about one of the most successful clubs this century and this last decade.

            • Roar Pro

              October 27th 2017 @ 3:55am
              Alphingtonian said | October 27th 2017 @ 3:55am | ! Report

              I was one week early. I forgot we were playing a team with a worse record in finals at the MCG in recent times than us. Still got to love our dismal Prelim result…What’s that now, 3 Prelim losses under Scott? The last two in a row absolute smashing’s with only Hawthorn’s inaccuracy (12 scoring shots to 1 in the last quarter 2013) saving us from a third? Scott now ranks as one of the worst finals coaches of all time and with top 4 finishes he’s clearly the worst by some distance in the modern era. You watch I’ll be proven right Geelong are on the brink of disaster over the next 3/4 years and will never win another flag as long as Cook and Scott are at the helm.

            • Roar Pro

              October 27th 2017 @ 3:55am
              Alphingtonian said | October 27th 2017 @ 3:55am | ! Report

              I was one week early. I forgot we were playing a team with a worse record in finals at the MCG in recent times than us. Still got to love our dismal Prelim result…What’s that now, 3 Prelim losses under Scott? The last two in a row absolute smashing’s with only Hawthorn’s inaccuracy (12 scoring shots to 1 in the last quarter 2013) saving us from a third? Scott now ranks as one of the worst finals coaches of all time and with top 4 finishes he’s clearly the worst by some distance in the modern era. You watch I’ll be proven right Geelong are on the brink of disaster over the next 3/4 years and will never win another flag as long as Cook and Scott are at the helm.

              • Roar Guru

                October 27th 2017 @ 7:11am
                Cat said | October 27th 2017 @ 7:11am | ! Report

                Always an excuse. Face it, you were wrong. I do like how the wave was imminent now its 3/4 years away. Keep saying it, even a broken watch is right twice a day.

      • October 23rd 2017 @ 1:16pm
        Harsh Truth Harry said | October 23rd 2017 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

        Then what have the cats done since 2011 because it hasn’t worked.

        • Roar Guru

          October 27th 2017 @ 7:13am
          Cat said | October 27th 2017 @ 7:13am | ! Report

          What has Essendon done since 2000 besides disgrace the entire sport and Australia as a whole?

    • October 20th 2017 @ 9:08am
      Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:08am | ! Report

      Very happy with wce trade period, shows faith in players like duggan, sheed,,Venables, partington etc to take next step. With the retirement and delisting the thinking behind having more 2nd round picks than clogging the list up with players picked in 80s is sound and I trust the recruiting dept. Rebuild is not a word used at WC because the cliff never comes.

      • October 20th 2017 @ 9:20am
        I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:20am | ! Report

        The cliff has arrived. Your boys will finish 14th – 16th next year.

        • October 20th 2017 @ 11:18am
          Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:18am | ! Report

          Maybe, but it will only be for one year if it happens, will be back in contention in two years imo

          • October 20th 2017 @ 11:34am
            I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:34am | ! Report

            Geez those kids are going to develop fast.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 12:06pm
              Anthony said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:06pm | ! Report

              They will with Sam Mitchell to learn off.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 12:12pm
              Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:12pm | ! Report

              Apparently we were cooked last year with old has beens and still ended up 6th, a few retirements and apparently we’re still cooked because we will be to young

              • October 20th 2017 @ 12:53pm
                I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:53pm | ! Report

                Only because you’re guaranteed 11 wins from your home umpires…actually, I’ll retract my previous statement; you’ll scrape into 8th, get walloped in the elimination final and miss out on decent draft picks, yet again.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 1:34pm
                Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:34pm | ! Report

                Sounding like the conspiracy theorists who said bulldogs only won the premiership due to hometown umpiring IAP.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 1:37pm
                KingKongBundy said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:37pm | ! Report

                Typical victorian puller

              • October 20th 2017 @ 2:01pm
                rusty said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

                I think West Coast have done well. There is a number of very good young west aussies that fall in the 15-30 range such as Naughton, Allen and Taylor. All were all Australian and I think West Coast will get 2 of them. Probably won’t get Naughton.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 2:25pm
                I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:25pm | ! Report

                No need for a conspiracy theory when there’s over a decade of data to confirm it:

                https://thearcfooty.com/2016/04/23/freekicksathome/

                How’s that for an outlier?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 4:10pm
                Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:10pm | ! Report

                Not that amazing it Confirms that home teams receive receive rub of the green nothing more.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 6:57pm
                I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 6:57pm | ! Report

                Didn’t notice the dot on the far right hand side? Don’t they teach kids how to read graphs in school anymore? Or are you wilfully ignorant?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 7:45pm
                Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 7:45pm | ! Report

                It’s about free kicks how does that cause victories?

              • November 19th 2017 @ 3:26pm
                Tez said | November 19th 2017 @ 3:26pm | ! Report

                Anyone that looks at free kick statistics and claims it shows bias from the umpires has no idea how sport or data works.

                Unless you can demonstrate the free kicks were not warranted then maybe you should just be quiet and stop proving to every one that you’re not too bright

              • October 21st 2017 @ 12:39am
                Anthony said | October 21st 2017 @ 12:39am | ! Report

                Funny, That same graph also says we get the second most frees AWAY from home as well, guess those Victorian umps must love us as well right…

        • October 20th 2017 @ 1:37pm
          guttsy said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:37pm | ! Report

          If Nic returns to form in the ruck and around the ground I would expect them to be challenging for the eight because of their great backline and forward line talls.

          If West Coast wave a magic wand and somehow get a good midfield that is fast and have a talented small forward to not only kick some goals but also provide serious headaches for the opposition then they are a top 4 team.

          Interesting to see how next year pans out for them.

          • Roar Guru

            October 22nd 2017 @ 11:04am
            gameofmarks said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:04am | ! Report

            Surprised they didn’t go after Hartung. He is a gun winger and if people disagree because of his defensive pressure then I would counter and ask them if he is any worse than Gaff or Jetta.

      • October 23rd 2017 @ 2:53pm
        Scott said | October 23rd 2017 @ 2:53pm | ! Report

        West coast is gonna finish in the 8 or at worst just out of it. This new stadium will be sold out every week and worth a good few goals a game. I’m tipping 10-12 home wins next year. They basically got all them picks for a slight downgrade next year. Throw in a few away wins and I just cannot possibly see them finishing near the bottom, so it really was a good trade imo

        • October 23rd 2017 @ 3:35pm
          Macca said | October 23rd 2017 @ 3:35pm | ! Report

          Scott – I think the draw will play a big part for the Eagles – if they can get a lot of 50/50 games at home (tipping them more to 60-40) rather than teams that will beat them anywhere or teams they would beat anywhere it might push them in contention.

    • Roar Guru

      October 20th 2017 @ 9:16am
      Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:16am | ! Report

      I’ve just submitted my votes and they’re pretty closely aligned to yours, Josh, including those where you differed substantially from the crowd. The only real difference was on Port, who I’d give a B to, purely because I rate Rockliff so highly and I think Motlop could still potentially turn out to be a big game performer, even if he is inconsistent.

      I disagree the Doggies should have taken pick 11, because that was conditional upon us giving up our second round pick (28?) and Stringer. The result would have meant we’d finish the trade period with picks 9, 11, Crozier and Trengrove.

      Yet by turning Stringer into two picks and then using them smartly, we’ve finished with picks 9, 16, Schache, Crozier and Trengrove. Personally, I’d rather have Schache and pick 16, than pick 11. We’ve also addressed three gaps on our list.

      • October 20th 2017 @ 9:25am
        I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:25am | ! Report

        I agree Dougie. I suspect that there was a larger strategy all along, not just to throw Stringer out for the highest pick possible. I’m very happy with the outcome. It certainly changes the dogs forward line structure, and it will be interesting to see how it pans out. Having numbers 1 & 2 draft picks in the forward line, both around the 2 metre mark, gives us a 10 year forward line to build around. We just need to get the balance right, with some good crumbers to support them and apply pressure.
        Hopefully we pick up a small forward and a good ball using midfielder with our two first round draft picks. We will have solved our back line, forward line and midfield issues in one offseason. The bonus too is that Bonti can play full time midfield, or be a third forward (good luck with that third defender).

        • Roar Guru

          October 20th 2017 @ 9:46am
          Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:46am | ! Report

          I reckon we’ll take Nick Coffield with our first pick. He’s a smart, rebounding defender who uses the ball exceptionally well and has a sharp turn of speed. He’s rated to go around pick 9 or 10 and he hails from the same suburban club as Bontempelli and Lipinski (as well as Zaharakis, Vlastuin and Caddy). He’s captain of the Northern Knights, so he fits our policy of going with quality people who can play and are fierce competitors.

          • October 20th 2017 @ 11:37am
            I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:37am | ! Report

            Sounds good, but I hope not. We have enough rebounding defenders (wait til Roake Smith gets a good run at it) – what we need is Andrew Gaff, or a junior equivalent.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 12:30pm
              Mattyb said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:30pm | ! Report

              Good work Dougie pumping up your Eltham boys,your learning from Don and Macca.
              I agree with IAP though,I think we’ll go for mids again,one outside mid with skill and someone with pace,we have half backs aplenty.
              Crozier I’d say is fringe at this point but I think we’ll play him half back and move JJ forward,I think we’ll keep Bont forward if we can. I imagine Boyd will continue to be developed in the ruck,he’s shown very little as a forward and now we can develop Schache.
              We need to convince Cloke to retire so we can keep Crameri. Using a list spot so Cloke can coach I don’t like,just make him a coach not on the playing list and pay him out that way.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 2:30pm
                I ate pies said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:30pm | ! Report

                I agree Matty; get rid of Cloke and keep Crameri. If he’s fit, which he’s saying he is, he’s a very handy forward to have.
                I haven’t given up on Boyd becoming a good forward. Confidence is the key for him, and he didn’t have a good run at it this year (thanks to some team mates is what I’m hearing). I reckon he’ll take a big step forward next year. Probably swap out of the forward pocket into the ruck with Roughy I’d reckon.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 3:20pm
                Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:20pm | ! Report

                I agree on de-listing Cloke. Can you delist a contracted player (and just pay him out)?

                With the draft, I suspect they will just pick the best player available, like usual, provided they meet their criteria of being of good character. Coffield is 190cm, quick and very versatile. His best position is half-back because of his footy smarts, but he has been used up forward and onball as well.

                http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/afl-draft-prospect-and-northern-knights-captain-nick-coffield-proving-his-value/news-story/662adb27c5a8b019b6ee7b0001738303

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:16am
                Don Freo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:16am | ! Report

                Matty, don’t put Macca and me in the same sentence. I have to have another shower now.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 12:55pm
              Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:55pm | ! Report

              Wait till next fa, with WC trading next years first rounder compo for gaff would nullify.

          • October 20th 2017 @ 2:03pm
            rusty said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:03pm | ! Report

            Bontompelli is from East Fremantle.

            • Roar Guru

              October 20th 2017 @ 3:21pm
              Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:21pm | ! Report

              Is your real name Kevin Sheedy? Have you seen Martians today?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 4:26pm
                Mattician6x6 said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

                Maybe he meant JJ? Only east freo player @ bullies I think.English was from souths ?

      • Roar Guru

        October 20th 2017 @ 10:28am
        JamesH said | October 20th 2017 @ 10:28am | ! Report

        I agree that the Dogs did well out of a difficult situation, but you’re forgetting that they still would have had two third round picks and 2018’s second round pick had they dealt with the Dons on pick 11, which could probably have been packaged up for Schache in some way instead of 25 and 40. In other words, there is every chance they would have ended up with 11 and Schache.

        Alternatively, they could have offered a slide from 11 to 18 for Schache (possibly even with a later/2018 Brisbane pick thrown in) while holding onto their third rounders and their 2018 second rounder.

        I have little doubt that they could have been better off taking pick 11 and 48 for Stringer and 28; it’s more that they still did pretty well after that deal evaporated.

        • Roar Guru

          October 20th 2017 @ 10:56am
          Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 10:56am | ! Report

          It’s true I forgot we traded away next year’s second round (pick 36?). But you’re wrong about the rest. If we’d accepted your club’s first deal, we wouldn’t have been left with any picks to trade for Schache, other than future / 2018 picks. Unless you’re suggesting that we turn pick 11 into two picks and use one on Schache – but even that would be unlikely to result in the unused pick being as good as pick 16. As for third round picks, the only one we traded that we held before the trade period began, was pick 41 for Crozier.

          • Roar Guru

            October 20th 2017 @ 12:36pm
            JamesH said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:36pm | ! Report

            You would have had Essendon’s pick 48 (originally 46) as well – that was part of their revised offer for Stringer.

            The point is, with the deal having been done for pick 11 in the first few days you would have had plenty of time to work out a deal for Schache and hold onto 11, or at least not have been any worse off than you ended up. Use your imagination!

            It was still a good outcome, given where things sat yesterday morning. I just think it’s a stretch to say that taking the two second rounders produced a better result.

            • Roar Guru

              October 20th 2017 @ 4:16pm
              Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:16pm | ! Report

              I don’t think you’ve really thought your comments through properly JamesH, because they don’t make much sense, even with a lot of imagination.

      • Roar Guru

        October 20th 2017 @ 1:39pm
        Col from Brissie said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:39pm | ! Report

        I thought the Bulldogs came out well in the end. I hope you have kinder words for SOS now seeing he gave you pick 16. Overall that was a good deal fro both clubs. Doggies got another first rounder this year while Blues got Kennedy, a second rounder this year and next year.

        A win/win for both clubs which is what you want to see in trade period.

        • Roar Guru

          October 20th 2017 @ 3:26pm
          Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:26pm | ! Report

          Cheers Col. I was skeptical of SOS’s performance when he was at GWS because he had a lot of misses with very high picks and it’s not hard to have a handful of successes when you get close to 20 picks inside the top 20 across three seasons. So I was skeptical of him when he first arrived at Carlton, but I agree, he has done an excellent job so far at Carlton. The trade with the Doggies was a strange one, as it definitely seemed in our favour, but he did a brilliant job at standing his ground last year with Gibbs and then extracting two first round picks for him this year.

          • October 20th 2017 @ 3:36pm
            Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:36pm | ! Report

            PD – Perhaps SOS was making up for getting Charlie Curnow with the pick you gave us for a couple of second rounders back in 2015!

            In reality the blues needed a second round pick for Kennedy and another second round pick for points to bid on father sons next year more than they needed 16 or 40 – getting 30 as well gets them close to level.

            • Roar Guru

              October 20th 2017 @ 3:40pm
              Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:40pm | ! Report

              I guess that 2015 exchange is another win-win for both clubs. We picked-up Dunkley, who became a premiership player in his first year and supposedly has great leadership qualities, and Kieran Collins, who is a developing young key defender.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:54pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:54pm | ! Report

                PD – I suspect by the end of 2018 the gap between Dunkley & Collins and Curnow will be a yawning chasm.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 4:26pm
                Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

                Haha, maybe. That’s speculating beyond my powers. All I know is that Dunkley is already a regular 22 player (he only missed games this year with an injury) and a favourite of Bevo’s. Collins is still an unknown. I gather Curnow will be very good and played all season this year with Carlton, but it’s much easier to play a full season in your second year with Carlton than to play a full season in your first year with the Doggies (in a premiership year), so I’m happy with the trade.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 4:36pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:36pm | ! Report

                It was a bit difficult for Curnow to play every game in his first year given he had glandular fever then injured himself.

                I think Dunkley will be a fine servant for you – but I think Curnow will be something very special and people will question how he got so far down in the draft in a year or 2.

                Hopefully this years swap works out as well for both clubs.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 4:46pm
                Col from Brissie said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:46pm | ! Report

                Dougie, points wise the 3 picks Carlton got based on ladder position this year is about 400 more than the 2 picks they gave up. So from that view Carlton won but as I said it was a win/win for both teams.

                I think Kennedy has the potential to be better than what pick 16 might have got us in this years draft plus 2 second round picks is a good result. I am as happy as you are.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 4:55pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:55pm | ! Report

                Hey Col – it will be interesting to see what the points difference will be between our 2018 second and third round picks and the Adelaide and Bulldogs second round picks we now have because I think it is only the points the blues will be interest in.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 5:23pm
                Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 5:23pm | ! Report

                Glad we’re all happy campers, Col. I don’t rate 3rd round picks as very useful unless Simon Dalrymple is your recruiting man, so a points assessment is not an evaluation technique I would give much credence to. Don’t know much about Kennedy, but he sounds okay without being special.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 5:26pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 5:26pm | ! Report

                Or SOS – MacReadie in last years third round, Williamson in the 4th and J Silvagni in the 4th in 2015.

    • Roar Guru

      October 20th 2017 @ 9:41am
      JamesH said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:41am | ! Report

      I don’t understand why so many people gave Brisbane a B. I went for a C, rather than a D, since I think they had to cut their losses on two guys who have been battling mental demons in the last couple of years, plus Hodge’s creaky body will be offset by the much needed leadership he’ll provide. There will be a bit of pressure on Cameron to play his part.

      I get your concerns about Port but I feel like your D is a bit of a token controversial rating for this piece. The Power really need polish in their forward half and, for all their flaws, Motlop and Watts can at least deliver that. Apparently they had enormous salary cap space too, thanks in part to Essendon paying Ryder’s and Monfries’ wages last year.

      • October 20th 2017 @ 11:39am
        sammy said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:39am | ! Report

        I think Port has added to the 2 areas that they were already strong in and not added to the area which got exposed against the better teams and that was the defense. It is true that statistically theirs was one of the tightest defences but the draw probably helped in that regard having played some of the weaker teams on double ups. If for example they had not brought in Watts but had gone after a Saad type player it would have really helped them. Another big key back would have also been a good get for them. Saying this as a crow supporter, if a team cannot win enough of the ball in the middle against them then look out as going forward they will be strong

        • October 20th 2017 @ 12:14pm
          1870 said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:14pm | ! Report

          Actually that’s incorrect. Only had 2 thrashings all year. Lost close ones against the better teams and that was due to poor forward 50 entries and poor conversion. So they actually have addressed their weaknesses. In those closer losses, in some they had more scoring shots and inside 50s by a long shot.

          • Roar Guru

            October 20th 2017 @ 12:46pm
            JamesH said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:46pm | ! Report

            Spot on, 1870. Their defence will be ok because they have some quality young players there who will only get better in 2018. Anyone who watched the way they butchered the ball in their final would surely agree that some silk in the forward half is their biggest need.

            Rockliff is arguably surplus to requirements but you can never have too many good ball-winners.

          • October 20th 2017 @ 2:07pm
            sammy said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:07pm | ! Report

            fair enough, but i suppose the perception outside of Port is that if you can break even or get on top of their midfield, the defence is suspect. I think their midfield was what provided the cover for their defence and it was really only when it was gotten on top of that the defence was exposed. I have to clarify that they have a very good midfield and that certainly helps make sure your team gets the ball going in the right direction

      • October 20th 2017 @ 12:09pm
        David C said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:09pm | ! Report

        Well Brisbane did as well as they could with the cards they were dealt. They had no control over Rocky leaving and got a good compo pick. Rocky will be missed but he has been injury prone and being in his late 20’s was better off going to a contender than staying at Brisbane. They had to get Cameron, it’s very rare for a “go homer” to be in their favour. They paid overs but you have to for contracted players, same as Gibbs. Schache has a big question mark over him and the lions did the right thing by him. They will pick up Ballinden in the draft to replace him. They did not have anyone like Cameron on the list, a true natural small forward with x-factor. They also ended with a similar set of draft picks to what they entered with. They are building a very solid list. I gave them a B. If they had done their deals earlier they may have made other moves but the picks swap at the end was clever to get them higher in the draft and extra draft point coverage for Ballenden.

        • Roar Guru

          October 20th 2017 @ 12:43pm
          JamesH said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:43pm | ! Report

          “They did not have anyone like Cameron on the list, a true natural small forward with x-factor”

          …other than Taylor 😉

          C isn’t a bad score, it’s just ok, and I felt that’s how Brisbane’s trade period ended up. B should be reserved for a clearly good period, with A being outstanding.

          I think they should have told Cameron they would go hard at him next year when he was out of contract. He isn’t going to be critical to have in 2018 and I’m sure he would have coped for another 12 months. Same with GC and Weller (but even moreso).

          I agree that their final pick swap with Richmond was smart.

          • Roar Guru

            October 20th 2017 @ 12:52pm
            Paul D said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:52pm | ! Report

            Lewis Taylor? Ha!

            He hasn’t got pace or x-factor.

            He is small though.

            I think the fact both clubs rate these players and were prepared to pay highly for them will reflect well for the future relationship between players & club. I don’t like the idea of waiting 12 months just to get them in the discount bin. It makes the player think their worth isn’t as great, they will be pressured and damaged by having to stay at a club they want out of – getting them now is the right thing for both parties.

    • October 20th 2017 @ 9:49am
      Felix said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:49am | ! Report

      I am still amazed that Geelong would pursue a soon to be 34 year old with a bung shoulder and soft tissue injuries.Add to that they didn’t address the forward line problems of Menzel and Hawkins. Where is there list management strategy?

      • October 20th 2017 @ 9:53am
        Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:53am | ! Report

        Felix – Getting Ablett does address the forward line problems. Him playing out of a forward pocket rotating with Dangerfield in the middle makes them very potent.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:26am
          Don Freo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:26am | ! Report

          It’s not as if you are talking about any 34yo. You are talking about Gary Ablett. He just won his club’s B & F only playing 65% of the season.

          I get querying Sam Mitchell or Luke Hodge but this is Ablett. Normal logic doesn’t apply here. Gazza goes beyond the normal. His talents may be diluted with age but only to the level of a normal 28yo A grader.

          • October 23rd 2017 @ 8:44am
            Peter the Scribe said | October 23rd 2017 @ 8:44am | ! Report

            Come off it Don, my Aunty could’ve won Gold Coast b and f and she passed away 9 years ago.

            • Roar Guru

              October 23rd 2017 @ 9:01am
              Cat said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:01am | ! Report

              She couldn’t manage:

              Ranked 2nd in Inside 50s Per Game
              Ranked 2nd in Disposals Per Game
              Ranked 1st in Centre Clearances Per Game
              Ranked 4th in Score Involvements Per Game
              Ranked 3rd in Kicks Per Game
              Ranked 9th in Contested Possessions Per Game
              Ranked 5th in Effective Disposals Per Game
              Ranked 1st in Clearances Per Game
              Ranked 5th in Stoppage Clearances Per Game
              Ranked 10th in Metres Gained Per Game

              But Gary Ablett Jr did last year. Those rankings are GC team rankings either, they are AFL wide rankings.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 9:07am
                Macca said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:07am | ! Report

                Gee Cat, a reasonable person would think that pick 19 might have been good value for someone who is performing at such a high level.

                It seems to be a far cry from the broken down spud he was just last week.

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 9:13am
                Cat said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:13am | ! Report

                Please quote me where I said any such thing. Stop misrepresenting the truth to make yourself look smarter.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 9:20am
                Macca said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:20am | ! Report

                Cat – I am not trying to make myself look smarter – just pointing out your hypocrisy.

                Last week you were constantly banging on about how Ablett has averaged less than 14 games a year for the last four years (ie broken down spud) and were dismissive of anyone who pointed out that in those last 4 years he still managed an AA (2014) and B&F (2017) – suddenly once he is in the hoops you see all the stats he was ranked in the top 10 last year.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 9:35am
                Don Freo said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:35am | ! Report

                You’re making the same point as Cat yet somehow turning it it into an argument. Why do you do that?

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 9:39am
                Cat said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:39am | ! Report

                And he is still 34 years old (will be for most of season 2018 anyway) with an injury history. Pick 19 on its own, as you and others have suggested, is simply too much for a player with likely limited time left in the game.
                There is a risk. That risk lowers his value. If Gaz hadn’t had 2 shoulder recos and hammy issues then yes, pick 19 alone wouldn’t have been enough on its own. But he did unfortunately.

                I’ll be 100% honest, i never looked at Ablett’s stats for 2017 until after the trade was completed. I didn’t need to. I knew I wanted him home regardless of what they may have said, if the trade price was right. Once the deal was done I started to see some impressive stats quoted in all the ‘The Return’ articles so I decided to take a deeper dive.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 9:51am
                Macca said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:51am | ! Report

                Don – I made the same points as Cat is this week last week, Cat argued against them – I am not arguing with Cat this week, just pointing out the miraculous change in Cat’s opinion as soon as Ablett got to Geelong.

                Cat – “I’ll be 100% honest, i never looked at Ablett’s stats for 2017 until after the trade was completed. I didn’t need to.” Then perhaps you should have been more accepting of the arguments put forward by those of us who had. If you wanted to argue then you really did need to look at his stats.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 1:34pm
                Don Freo said | October 23rd 2017 @ 1:34pm | ! Report

                Nah.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 10:23am
                Peter the Scribe said | October 23rd 2017 @ 10:23am | ! Report

                Impressive stats Cat except for the one qualifier, “per game”. He will be 35 next year with suspect hamstrings and shoulders and your belief that the Geelong medical team are so superior to everyone else is ridiculous. My proof….Mitch Clark and Steven Motlop.

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 10:37am
                Cat said | October 23rd 2017 @ 10:37am | ! Report

                Peter, Peter, Peter when are you ever going to learn basic reading comprehension? I’ve never claimed Geelong’s medical staff is far superior to anyone but GC. Pretty sure 16 other teams would say the same thing too. Doubt many GC fans would debate it very strongly either.
                Steven Motlop? You really have no clue do you? Don’t answer, I already know you don’t. Motlop has played 22, 24, 17, 20, 24 and 23 games since he made it into best 22.

                Of course it is ‘per game’ Peter, that’s what an average is!

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 1:24pm
                Peter the Scribe said | October 23rd 2017 @ 1:24pm | ! Report

                My point is who cares what he averages per game if you get s third of s season from him? Only two blokes past 34 I know deserved to play on Tuck and Harvey. What you forget is the only reason he hasn’t retired already is he was playing for a hopeless team who needed every game they could get from him. You’ll be lucky to get 8 games from him next year and meanwhile he destroys the culture and precedent you set by axing aged stars.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 2:29pm
                Don Freo said | October 23rd 2017 @ 2:29pm | ! Report

                The fact they are the only 2 blokes you know indicate some limitations on your frame of reference, Peter.

                If he plays 2/3 of a season, it will be well worth it. What makes you think he’ll only play 1/3?

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 4:11pm
                Peter the Scribe said | October 23rd 2017 @ 4:11pm | ! Report

                If you’re going to comment to me read my post properly Don Freo. Two blokes past 34 years of age, only ones deserved it were Harvey and Tuck. Think Ablett will get more games than this year or less being a year older?

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 5:07pm
                Don Freo said | October 23rd 2017 @ 5:07pm | ! Report

                Yep, that’s what I read…hence my response.

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 10:43am
                Cat said | October 23rd 2017 @ 10:43am | ! Report

                BTW Peter, Ablett will be 34 next year. Facts, they matter.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 3:06pm
                Scott said | October 23rd 2017 @ 3:06pm | ! Report

                I reckon Geelong will prob finish top or close to it with Ablett. If he stays fit it’s hard to see them losing any games with Dangerfield, Ablett and Selwood in the midfield. I watched my Eagles dominate for years with judd, Kerr and Cousins. We also had cox but outside that we really only had 2 other A graders in the team. The game is won in the midfield and I can barely see them losing a clearance with those 3. Watch how good the average players around them start looking next year, when they can set themselves up knowing they’ll win most clearances

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 4:35pm
                Cat said | October 23rd 2017 @ 4:35pm | ! Report

                Two blokes past 34 years of age, only ones deserved it were Harvey and Tuck.

                And Ablett’s career is far superior to either of those two so no reason to think its a forgone conclusion he can’t keep going too.

      • Roar Guru

        October 20th 2017 @ 9:56am
        Cat said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:56am | ! Report

        Maybe if you actually took a closer look instead of shallow analysis you’d see they did inquire about Stringer and Watts.

        The biggest issue for Geelong’s forward line is one everyone ignores. No fit small forwards for virtually the entire year. Big forwards, like Hawkins (who btw is one of only 3 forwards in the game to kick 50+ goals in each of the last 2 years) are only as good as those around them. Hawkins was a one man show for the most part.

        Ablett will also play forward a lot of time, when he is in the middle it will allow Danger to go forward more. Between them they are easily capable of kicking 80+.

        • Roar Guru

          October 20th 2017 @ 11:01am
          Rick Figjam said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:01am | ! Report

          I’d say they’ll kick 100+ if both remain fully fit.

          Both extremely dangerous offensive midfielders as opposed to Selwood — a more defensive midfielder.

          All three in the midfield will be cream-in-your-pants stuff.

          • October 20th 2017 @ 11:04am
            Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:04am | ! Report

            Is that between them or each Rick? 😉

            • Roar Guru

              October 20th 2017 @ 11:26am
              Rick Figjam said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:26am | ! Report

              Each — that’s conservative also. 🙂

          • Roar Guru

            October 20th 2017 @ 11:13am
            Cat said | October 20th 2017 @ 11:13am | ! Report

            100+ is very possible, I was trying to go with the minimum, no reason they can’t kick 40+ each

            • October 20th 2017 @ 1:07pm
              Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:07pm | ! Report

              Cat – It’s amazing, just a few short days ago Ablett was a broken down old man who could only manage “roughly 50%” of a season, now he is set to become one of the few players to top 50 goals in a season.

              It’s amazing what those blue and white hoop can do.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 1:31pm
                Cat said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:31pm | ! Report

                What you thought I’d pump up his value before the trade happened? HAHAHAHAHA. Nothing I’ve said before or after is inaccurate, just two different view points.
                When you are looking to bring a player in you look at the worst case scenario, when that player is on your list, you look at the best case.
                Being close to his family, being happy and having a medical staff that I rate as far more competent that the GC staff I honestly believe will do wonders for Gary.
                We’ve all seen players battle through injuries. Its hard enough to do when you are mentally feeling good. Even harder when life is kicking you in the guts.
                Given what we now know has transpired in Gary’s personal life with the loss of his dear sister, one can only begin to guess what kind of effect that had on Ablett for the last year, surely it was weighing on him.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 2:01pm
                Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

                What a crock Cat, you were caught out and you know it, even worse by a Blues supporter, one of the kind that think SOS is a genius as you accrue more wooden spoons than any sustainable forest can supply.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 1:49pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:49pm | ! Report

                Cat – I didn’t say you said anything wrong, just find it odd that you were willing to argue so vehemently against paying anything of substance for Ablett (remembering that your opinion wasn’t going to change what you actually paid) and yet as soon as he becomes a Cat it seems you got a champion for a song.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 2:18pm
                Cat said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:18pm | ! Report

                Blah blah Blah harry isn’t it time for your afternoon nap little boy?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:07pm
                Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:07pm | ! Report

                You know you have someone when their comeback is blah, blah, blah. Cat was caught out and doesn’t like it? Not so beige in the real world is it cat? Also, throwing in some irrelevant Personal tragedy to cover your argument was extremely low.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 2:30pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:30pm | ! Report

                Ho Hum Harry – “SOS is a genius as you accrue more wooden spoons than any sustainable forest can supply.” How many wooden spoons have we accrued since SOS’ first trade and draft period with the blues?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:10pm
                Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:10pm | ! Report

                Macca have you actually looked at your clubs record since 1995? It is an absolute disgrace. You call SOS a genius for what? You are still awful and all these picks aren’t going to change that fact.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 2:30pm
                Cat said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:30pm | ! Report

                Never said there isn’t risk Macca. It’s a risk I am willing to accept though. I’ve always thought Ablett was a good get at the right price. I never wavered from that.
                Did I try to undervalue him? Sure, a bit maybe, that’s what happens when half the forum was putting a 2009 Gary Ablett price on him and when GC was demanding a best 22 player plus Geelong pay the players full wage plus draft pricks.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:14pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

                Hopeless Harry – So SOS’ first trade & Draft period in charge is 2015 but he is being judged on everything back to 1995? You really need to raise your game if you want to challenge people.

                As for history – when was the last time Essendon won a final? Or if that is too long ago when was the last time the got within 5 goals in a final?

          • October 20th 2017 @ 2:42pm
            Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:42pm | ! Report

            Seriously what are you on Rick and Cat?!!! 100 goals between them ! You guys are in la-la land! Cats are spent and you’ll be lucky to get 10 games from him! All you have done since 2011 is make up the numbers with no real strategy at all. You have tried to get a flag with dangerfield and it failed. Your youth are awful! You are gone and have no hope for the future.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 2:47pm
              Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:47pm | ! Report

              Yeah the Cats have been making up the numbers since, unlike your blokes – how did your 3 final appearances from 2011 until now go for you? What is the average losing margin?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:11pm
                Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:11pm | ! Report

                And there goes one of the beige eight defending his king despite correctly calling the great wise cat out on his inconsistencies.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:17pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:17pm | ! Report

                Hopeless Harry – yesterday you wanted people to have their opinions challenged, but as soon is yours is challenged you resort to petty insults, do you see the irony?

    • October 20th 2017 @ 9:52am
      Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 9:52am | ! Report

      I am with the crowd more than you Josh on the blues, I don’t think this trade period was as successful as the previous 2 simply because we had to give up more but to get the 2 players we wanted in Kennedy and Lang as well as improving our 2018 draft position while going from 3, 40 and 58 to 3, 10 & 30 in this years draft for the loss of Gibbs is a pretty good performance.

      I would also say that getting what we got for Gibbs this year should lead to some re-evaluating of the blues previous 2 years strategies by some of the critics, given the biggest criticism was that we should have traded a player like Gibbs earlier while they still had currency – whereas we got 2 years out of him to help with the development of the numerous young blokes we were still able to bring in and then still got a great price.

      • Roar Guru

        October 20th 2017 @ 10:34am
        Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 10:34am | ! Report

        Yep, the fact you got two first rounders for Gibbs at the age of 28 made him a must-trade. He wasn’t critical to the fabric of your team and he rarely turned matches, so he won’t be missed terribly. There is enough development in “the kids” to allow them to blossom without him around them. You now have a lot of young talent in the squad with good draft picks to come, meaning that if you continue to draft well you should have a core group of talent all at a similar age. Now you need to identify a ruckman that can takeover in 3 years time.

        • October 20th 2017 @ 10:39am
          Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 10:39am | ! Report

          PD – I disagree with some of you assessments on Gibbs, I think we will miss him terribly this year but you are correct it was too good an offer to turn down and without him the other youngsters will get more opportunity – I am really hoping David Cuningham has a big 2018, has the combination of clean hands and burst speed that could make him a special talent if he can put it all together.

          Great observation about a ruckman, I wouldn’t be surprised if the blues take one in the rookie draft or with a late pick this year and make one a bit more of a priority in 2018 – probably through trading.

          • October 20th 2017 @ 12:17pm
            sammy said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:17pm | ! Report

            getting the Blues 2018 second round pick was a key to the deal as assuming Carlton have another development year and finish in a similar position to this year, it really means that pick 16 that was part of the trade downgrades to pick 20-22 but in a so called better draft and the swap of the crows 2nd rounder for Carltons 3rd rounder also is only a drop of maybe / hopefully 5 or 6 places – so in real terms it COULD be that Gibbs only cost the crows pick 10 and a downgrade of some picks and for that I give it a tick of approval. Last years deal was for 2 1st round picks or pick 13 and Cameron or McGovern and that would have hurt a lot more

          • Roar Guru

            October 20th 2017 @ 12:38pm
            Col from Brissie said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:38pm | ! Report

            Macca, I disagree with you on this. Like Josh I give SOS an A for this trade period. Losing Gibbs might mean some short term pain but we might have only had him for a couple of more years. We get in Kennedy and Lang who could turn into 10 plus year players, a top 10 pick this year as well as getting back into the second round and a future second round pick and lost a future third round pick,

            We go into this draft with pick 3 which will give us access to a good midfielder, pick 10 which maybe gives us another young midfielder or mid/fwd type player and maybe speculate on a tall with pick 30. Add these players with our young crop from the last couple of years and the future is looking good. Getting Lobbe adds to our ruck stocks behind Kreuzer and Phillips. He might not play much senior football but he will be there if needed.

            Remember next season is year 3 of our rebuild. I think SOS has put us in a good position for the future.

            • Roar Guru

              October 20th 2017 @ 12:50pm
              JamesH said | October 20th 2017 @ 12:50pm | ! Report

              I was tossing up between an A and a B but it was definitely a good trade period for your boys. Kennedy for 28 and Lang for a ham sandwich is still waaaaaaaaay unders. They will really add to your midfield strength and depth.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 1:14pm
              Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:14pm | ! Report

              Col – I am not complaining about this trade period by any stretch, just that I have the last 2 being A’s and this year I would grade slightly lower, B (or maybe a B+) seems about right to me.

              As I said getting to players in and improving our draft position in 2 drafts is a pretty good return for losing 1 player.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:35am
                Don Freo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:35am | ! Report

                Macca, you may well have a Purple Boy from the delisted free agents. If Zac Clarke’s knee is now OK as is being claimed, he has such a strong pack mark around the ground and such mobility, he will be picked up somewhere. You’ll get first dibs.

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 12:20pm
                Col from Brissie said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:20pm | ! Report

                Don, agree a fit Clarke would be a good addition, but after picking up Lobbe from Port I doubt the Blues need him. If they are looking to add someone through the PSD I would think they would be looking at speedy mid/fwd types.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 2:43pm
              Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:43pm | ! Report

              Oh yes behold the wondrous SOS! What a list! What a club! Any chance you might start winning a few games or still more spoons to come in the great master plan of the mighty SOS?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 2:56pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:56pm | ! Report

                Harry – in the 2 years since SOS’s first trade period with the blues the blues have won 0 spoons while your blokes have won 1 – do you believe it is SOS’ efforts at Carlton that caused the bombers to win the spoon?

                Alos in those 2 years the blues have won 13 games to the bombers 15 – if you don’t think the blues have won any games surely the same logic applies to your mob?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:17pm
                Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:17pm | ! Report

                The bombers were being dragged through hell by the AFL yet we instantly bounce back, play finals, become a destination club for real players, not just b grade kids, and go straight ahead of your club by everyone’s acknowledgement. How does that even happen Macca? Col? Surely what we went through would give you your chance yet we disappear in hell for a few years and instantly return better than you and now premiership favourites. How can that even happen?

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 9:00am
                Peter the Scribe said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:00am | ! Report

                I’ll tell you how, Carlton are a shocking organisation simple.

              • October 20th 2017 @ 3:21pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:21pm | ! Report

                “The bombers were being dragged through hell by the AFL yet we instantly bounce back” The issue started in 2013, it is a very slow “instant”.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 9:53am
                Macca said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:53am | ! Report

                Peter – Yeah it was all about Carlton and nothing to do with the fact Essendon had a dozen senior players walk back into the side.

            • October 20th 2017 @ 3:14pm
              Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

              So Lang a ten year plus player suddenly Col? Hmmm, couldn’t get a game in a slow, ageing list yet now a ten year player. Well it will be ten years without a final at your rabble.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 4:59pm
                Col from Brissie said | October 20th 2017 @ 4:59pm | ! Report

                Well HTH I did say they could turn into 10 plus year players but you can spin it anyway you like. Your opinions based on your past comments mean nothing to me. I just hope for your teams sake Smiths knees hold up, Stringer can get over his personal problems and Saad can learn to defend rather than just run and bounce the ball when he gets it.

              • Roar Guru

                October 20th 2017 @ 5:25pm
                Pumping Dougie said | October 20th 2017 @ 5:25pm | ! Report

                That’s the spirit, Col. ?

              • October 20th 2017 @ 5:08pm
                Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 5:08pm | ! Report

                When he gets it is a good point Col – he only averages about 16 possessions a game over his career, with his best season being his first with about 17.

      • Columnist

        October 20th 2017 @ 1:52pm
        Ryan Buckland said | October 20th 2017 @ 1:52pm | ! Report

        I would disagree Macca, I think this was the best of the three. The Gibbs trade is the cherry, and I would anticipate 2018 is the year Carlton will bottom out. I would give Carlton an A grade if I was grading, but I didn’t grade I instead had tiers and I had Carlton in the winners tier.

        Fair call on the timing of the Gibbs trade though.

        Ultimately Carlton was able to realise that kind of value because of the specific circumstances of the Adelaide Crows, which there is no way the Blues would have foreseen when they should’ve traded him two years ago. But you’ve got to take what you’re given. There is also the small matter of Carlton sending its 2018 second round pick to Adelaide, which could very well end up being immediately after Adelaide’s 2018 first round pick if the Crows win the flag and the Blues win the spoon.

        • October 20th 2017 @ 2:07pm
          Macca said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:07pm | ! Report

          Ryan – I agree that the 2018 second rounder is a bit of an issue but I think the blues would be expecting Ben Silvagni (or Manton or Hickmott) will require a second round bid so whether it is 19 or the two second rounders they now have is pretty irrelevant.

          On which of the past 3 trade periods is the best, I still think the one you rated a 3 (2015) is the best given we ended up with 4 first rounders plus Plowman (and Kerridge & Lamb) with Menzel & Yarran being busts for their clubs but we can agree to disagree – what I think we could agree on is that if we took them as a collective across the 3 years SOS would get an A

      • October 20th 2017 @ 2:04pm
        Harsh Truth Harry said | October 20th 2017 @ 2:04pm | ! Report

        Blues fans should be wary commenting about anything until their miserable club pulls themselves off the bottom some decade. I love how this worshipping of Silvagni continues while the club continues to do nothing. Do we get two games against you rabble next year? Boy I hope so. Without Gibbs you are even worse and that’s saying something.

        • October 21st 2017 @ 10:26am
          Pumping Dougie said | October 21st 2017 @ 10:26am | ! Report

          Is that you mattyb? LOL.

        • Roar Rookie

          October 21st 2017 @ 10:40am
          Pedro The Fisherman said | October 21st 2017 @ 10:40am | ! Report

          Sheesh truetigerfan – I thought that handle was make believe but hey – what an unusual real name? If you ever find out who your parents are then you might want to ask them why they gave you that unique moniker!
          PS: hard to be your neighbour – I live in a house, not at the caravan park!

          • October 23rd 2017 @ 12:14pm
            Harsh Truth Harry said | October 23rd 2017 @ 12:14pm | ! Report

            ha ha ha! love it Pedro…be careful TTF also claims you are me and others….even authors in here apparently!

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