Forget about the World Cup, enjoy this win for what it is

Jack Quigley Columnist

By Jack Quigley, Jack Quigley is a Roar Expert

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    So thin they are, the margins at the top.

    If the All Blacks score a late try this article spends most of its time teeing off at Bernard Foley’s goal kicking for costing the Wallabies the game for the umpteenth time, or asking what competition Stephen Moore won that entitles him to continue to accrue token Test caps despite being a complete liability.

    But the All Blacks didn’t score the winning try at the end. The Wallabies won. The Wallabies went and bloody won it. So let’s celebrate that, it’s not often you beat the best team in the world at anything.

    It’s been 805 days since we last beat the All Blacks and Lord knows we’ve earned the right to soak this one up.

    Credit to Micheal Cheika, as bad as the Wallabies were in June, it takes some coach to take that team and have them beating the All Blacks by October. If Foley could kick straight they’d have beaten them in August.

    Michael Cheika Australia Rugby Union Wallabies Bledisloe Cup Rugby Championship Test Rugby 2016

    (AAP Image/SNPA, Ross Setford)

    Mention also for the backing Nathan Grey got from Cheika when the Wallabies were at their lowest ebb.

    We all threw stones at Grey after the defensive debacle in Sydney, it’s only fair that we highlight how terrific the Wallabies were defensively in Brisbane. Only 11 missed tackles in 80 minutes of rugby against the weapons the All Blacks have at their disposal tells one story, but the other story was how organised it all looked. Gone was the panic and confusion, in their place was a calmness and understanding of individual roles.

    Jack Dempsey was the correct choice for man of the match. The blindside flanker had a huge night. If he wasn’t the ball runner he was the support player. If he wasn’t making the tackle he seemed to be first in over the ball.

    Greg Martin made the excellent point during commentary that as a defender you never get a shoulder on Dempsey. His footwork is terrific and it allows him to dodge big tackles which means more often than not he’d going forward, even while being dragged to ground.

    A terrific shift and one that puts Dempsey in pole position for the 6 jersey for the European tour.

    Players making jerseys their own is becoming a theme of this side. A very pleasing theme.

    After several months of chopping and changing and Test rugby auditions, Cheika appears to have settled upon his favourites.

    The back three have locked themselves down. Israel Folau did his usual thing of scoring a try and always beating the first man when running the ball but we expect that from him now. Marika Koroibete scored again, a real finisher’s finish in the corner. Reece Hodge scored again and nailed a crucial penalty goal late on.

    Israel Folau Wallabies

    (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)

    Sean McMahon showed again how good he can be when he’s on. Adam Coleman was faultless once more. There is so much John Eales about Adam Coleman. Not just the playing ability but the aura of calmness that seems to float around him. Coleman will be one of the all time Wallaby greats by the time he’s done.

    It can’t be understated how much belief this young Wallabies squad will take from the result in Brisbane. The Wallabies have at times been on the nose for their steadfast belief in their own methods, often unwilling to even entertain the idea of abandoning the game plan. This result will only serve to strengthen that resolve, but as long as they are winning, that is seen as an admirable trait.

    Take, for instance, the two penalties in front of the posts mid way through the second half. As countless Australians shouted at their television for the Wallabies to take the gift three points on offer, Will Genia took a quick tap, and Michael Hooper opted to kick for the line.

    Luckily for Hooper, the second time it paid dividends as Koroibete crashed over to score as a result. But those decisions say a lot about the belief of this side right now, and why they won that game. The All Blacks played cautious rugby in the wet conditions, the Wallabies chased the game. The better team deserved to win and did.

    There were bad parts, too. But nothing new, just the stuff that hasn’t been ironed out yet. Primarily Foley’s kicking and Moore’s selection. Ball handling was pretty terrible and Will Genia threw his fair share of hospital balls to some unfortunate receivers.

    But that’s for another day. Talk will now turn to the European tour and inevitably, the World Cup. For now, let’s just enjoy this. The All Blacks are the best rugby team on the planet, by a long way, but tonight the Wallabies beat them. How good.

    Jack Quigley
    Jack Quigley

    A long time sports writer and podcaster, Jack has spent the majority of his media career covering football and rugby. He recently joined The Roar on the back of penning a viral Facebook rant aimed at the Wallabies which attracted 60,000 likes and more than 6,000 shares. You can follow him on Twitter @Jack_Quigley.

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    The Crowd Says (259)

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:51am
      Hugo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:51am | ! Report

      Well said, Jack. And we got a lot of praise from the NZ journos, too. Be nice if the WBs could wear those great jerseys on the EOTY tour. It would also be nice if we didn’t have to play the Baa Baas or Japan and could take this victory into the game against Wales.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 5:50am
        DrTootr said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:50am | ! Report

        Agreed. We should wear these indigenous jerseys more often and why not start with some of the EOYT tour games.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:07am
          Dally said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:07am | ! Report

          Yep. Wear them all the time, every game.

          Great win Wallabies, was stoked for them when that siren sounded, they deserved the win. Played with a lot of heart and passion. Loved it.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:20pm
          me too said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

          Disagree. Great message and all that, but much prefer the plain aussie gold tops. look at the allblacks jumper – beautiful and clean – it would lose and bit and become very dated if they threw fern swirls and other cultural symbols over it.
          Just pure gold tops with a green neck please.

          • October 23rd 2017 @ 1:53am
            Carozza'sNose said | October 23rd 2017 @ 1:53am | ! Report

            Wrasse those jumpers forever and create a ‘Pointing of the Bone’-style traditional dance as a response to Haka.

            60 thousand years should not be wasted on an others young nation! !

            • October 23rd 2017 @ 10:18am
              Charlie Turner said | October 23rd 2017 @ 10:18am | ! Report

              Do you know the difference between the Hakka and your pointing the bone suggestion? Shows you know nothing about either culture.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:53am
        Curl said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:53am | ! Report

        Thanks for another good article Jack, I am enjoying your writing.

        Re. The Baa Baas and Japan, I dont agree with you Hugo for a couple of reasons:

        1. The BBs game should be a fantastic spectical, something Ausi Rugby needs more of.
        2. Both games should allow Cheika to rotate some of his players.
        3. It should allow the wallabies to consolidate there recent good work with more wins before Europe.
        4. It will be good for the game both here and in Japan.

        I say, lets go play.

        • Roar Guru

          October 22nd 2017 @ 9:31am
          PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:31am | ! Report

          also the players get to experience playing in japan before the rwc there

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:55am
            Bring Back...? said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:55am | ! Report

            They should play Japan but the baa baas is silly – nothing good can really come of it. Anyway, it’s locked in so let’s rest TPN, Coleman, Hooper, McMahon, Genia, Foley and Folau as the guys who seem to have played a lot of rugby. Last night’s game was bruising and these guys should be rested. Start with Moore as Hooker and captain, AAA and Robertson. Tui and Arnold with Dempsey, Hannigan and Timani. Beale at 10 and Hunt at 12. Hodge to fullback and Speight on the wing.

            • Roar Guru

              October 22nd 2017 @ 11:09am
              PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:09am | ! Report

              Baa Baas game is purely for the much needed ARU revenue.

              Only players who haven’t had much game time should start.

              So rest Sio, TPN, Kepu, Coleman, Hooper, Genia, Foley, Hodge, Kuridrani, Folau.

              Also rest Beale and McMahon because they are injury prone.

              So out of yesterdays starters at most start
              Tui (close enough to a starter), Dempsey, Koroibete.

              01 Slipper (back playing NRC)
              02 Ulese (he needs more game time)
              03 Faulkner
              04 Arnold
              05 Tui
              06 Hanigan (so he can be measured against competitors for his jersey)
              07 Dempsey
              08 Timani

              09 Phipps
              10 Hunt
              11 Speight
              12 Meakes
              13 Kerevi
              14 Rona
              15 Banks

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:03pm
                Bring Back...? said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

                No issue with that but was assuming guys like Robertson, Koreibeti and Hannigan would be picked given their incumbency and limited game time.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:09pm
                Rebellion said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:09pm | ! Report

                I would like to see a centre combination of Kerevi at 12 and Hodge 13 trialled during the BaaBaa’s game and can’t see any point wasting a jersey on Hanigan when he’s clearly not good enough. If Chieka won’t give Higginbotham anymore than 1 test per year to settle in, then he should be trialling one of the ex force players or anyone of the other eligible backrowers from the five sides.
                Phipps is also a waste of time and space – we know what we’re going to get and that is a scrumhalf with an inexcusably unreliable pass.
                Give Powell a start and anyone else off the bench.
                Hunt at 10? What is going on with you PeterK – you used to be one of the more considered posters on this forum

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 1:20pm
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:20pm | ! Report

                yeah Koroiebete instead of Rona that was a mistake

                Robertson should be dropped

                Hanigan is there

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 1:23pm
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:23pm | ! Report

                Rebellion – With Phipps and Hanigan I am accepting the reality that Cheika will select them.

                My preference would be they get dropped completely.

                However at least they can be either shown up by the baa baas or get much needed game time if they have to come on due to injury

                Rather than Hanigan I would like Phillip from the force.

                Any number of halfbacks instead of Phipps.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:24pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:24pm | ! Report

                Rebellion, I want to see the 12. Kerevi, 13. Hodge combination at all, but I suspect that Hodge will need a full year of SR at 13 before he is ready to play there in internationals.

                That said, to me Hodge looks like a longterm 13 or 15. I hope he plays primarily at 15 due to his big size and the fact that he has the capacity to be a strong defender.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:29pm
                curl said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:29pm | ! Report

                Agree!

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 1:33pm
                ThugbyFan said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:33pm | ! Report

                Not a bad team PK, but take a look at the announced WB squad. The only regular 5/8 in the WB squad selected against the Baa Baa is Duncan Paia’aua. Quade Cooper didn’t make the squad so is definitely finished as a WB player until M.Cheika moves on.

                I would say M.Cheika wants to see how DP will go in that position and if he looks good, then take him as reserve to B.Foley. I know he’s mostly played IC for Reds and Queensland Country but all his early games and junior reps were at 5/8 I believe. Even better, the bloke can tackle.

                So here are my backs for the Baa Baa game. J.Gordon, DP, Curtis Rona, Bill Meakes, S.Kerevi, Izaia Perese and K.Hunt at fb. Plenty of speed and every one of them can tackle, so not a bad set of backs at all? N.Phipps and T.Banks as reserves.

                I put K.Hunt instead of Banks as he and DP are cool heads who would be needed to plot and control the backline moves.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:37pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:37pm | ! Report

                I mean I hope he plays primarily at outside centre.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:47am
        mania said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:47am | ! Report

        Nicest WBs jersey s ever. Stylish and actually has meaning. WBs made 2 loud statements that night

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 5:52am
      RedandBlack said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:52am | ! Report

      Yeah – Congrats Oz – good game, great win. Certainly it was earned. Enjoy.

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:50am
      stainlesssteve said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:50am | ! Report

      Well done, Wallabies….Anyone remember me saying the Wallabies can be dangerous this year? Against the vast tide of opinion? Reward for effort, now, and easily could have been in Dunedin.
      Well done Cheika, sticking with the plan; looks like a good plan now!
      OK, there have been lots of mistakes and missed tackles, but that’s due to huge pressure, in the SA NZ AU games, and once more, we have had great dollops of sublime rugby this year.
      Let’s hope the Southern Hemisphere acquits itself well in the north now….infallibly would be nice, but nobody can really expect that after last night
      Nice to see the indigenous stripe start off with a win. Great looking jersey.

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:53am
      Rt said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:53am | ! Report

      I really enjoyed the game and was pleased with many aspects of the wallabies game , particularly their defensive commitment. The All Blacks commitment to each and every test they play is admirable.

      You are so right about the margins at the top.

      Having said all that I do think this was possibly the weakest NZ team they’ve fielded against the wallabies for some time and certainly the weakest since Chicago last year. No I’m not seeking to detract from the win. You can only beat what’s in front of you.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:02pm
        Fathom said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:02pm | ! Report

        Agree..by the same token the ABs were outplayed by a bunch of no hopers from the Aus super rugby fiasco.

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:08am
      blagblah said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:08am | ! Report

      Now please go humble england and thier supporters

      • October 23rd 2017 @ 1:06am
        adastra32 said | October 23rd 2017 @ 1:06am | ! Report

        A good win WBs. But there was me thinking that a new sense of reality was indicated by the non-euphoric nature of much of the reaction:

        “Now please go humble england and thier supporters”

        This England supporter welcomed your victory. However, if you think that the WBs are going to humble ANY of the teams up here, then you need to get a much bigger reality check.

        Yesterday and today it is a European Cup weekend. Have a look at the first 60 minutes of Leicester Tigers vs. Castres if you want to see the sort of ‘humbled’ play that the likes of Ben Youngs, Ellis Genge, Jonny May, Dan Cole and George Ford are likely to offer Aus come November at Twickenham.

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:08am
      Connor33 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:08am | ! Report

      Jack – I always enjoy your write ups. But the Foley bashing is getting a little long in th e tooth.

      Foley hit 19 straight this year.

      In his career, his shot on goal as a percentage is, I belive in the high 70s, possibly 77-78%, but I need to double check that. Have you got access to this on hand? If so, can you please share it.

      Lima has a kicking percentage of 69% and hit two good goal. One hitting the cross bar. Foley missed a few tonight, one being from out wide, yet hits in the high 70s. Sometimes you have an off night — ever more so in the wet. And no doubt you know that your planting foot is on wet turf making it that much more difficult.

      But as I said, I really enjoy your articles — but perhaps be a little more balanced in the criticism re Foley. The guy plays his heart out. He’s the best we have. He’s had some very good games this year, but continues to cop it.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:21am
        Rt said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:21am | ! Report

        Agreed.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:23am
        riddler said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:23am | ! Report

        well put connor but we are in the minority on this blog who give foley a fair shake..

        • Columnist

          October 22nd 2017 @ 8:11am
          Jack Quigley said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:11am | ! Report

          Totally agree with you guys. I’m tired of the Foley bashing, too. But the reality is that his kicking flaws continue to be a major thorn in the side of this team, we can’t just ignore it because it’s been said before.
          If Mitch Marsh continues to not make any runs or take any wickets, people will keep pointing out how something should probably be done about that.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:34am
            Connor33 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:34am | ! Report

            Thank you for the response, Jack. Trust me, I really enjoy your article. But any mention of Foley this week was only goi g to kick off the stream that we have below.

            I’d be very interest in seeing the data: I think I saw in the SA 2 game that he had hit 177 out 228 kicks. About 77%.

            What was Burke’s percentage?

            Mortlock’s?

            Beau dan Barrett?

            Lima?

            Jantes?

            If we can get this data in front of us, I reckon we can have a constructive conversation?

            • Roar Guru

              October 22nd 2017 @ 10:47am
              PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:47am | ! Report

              Burke kicked them from 50 metres out not just 40 metres so straight percentages is not a fair comparison.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:37am
                Connor33 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:37am | ! Report

                Let’s get the exact numbers of how many he shot from the 50m arc?

                But before we go there–can anyone fill in the blanks above? From Mortlock through to Jantes? (Including how many kicked and also slotted, aswell as the percentage)

                Let’s just get this basic data, which I can’t seem to find. It should be out there right?

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:11pm
                soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:11pm | ! Report

                http://goalkickers.co.za/

                only goes back to 2011. ranks foley 145th of all international kickers using whatever system they’ve devised (you’ll have to ask them about that). they have foley as a -5 value added with goal kicking

                “A kicker with a negative Value Added actually lost his team points due to poor kicking relative to other professional goal kickers and given the difficulty of his kicks.Value Added is rounded to the nearest whole number.”

                it should be said theres a few double entries in there so could be a bit higher than 145

                edit: doesnt seem like they have 2017 in there so youll have to check elsewhere for that. hopefully theyre still doing it, its a good little website.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:49pm
                Connor33 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:49pm | ! Report

                So does a kick in WC game mean more than one that is not–the latter having less pressure than the first.

                There’s a whole bunch of variable we could throw into the game.

                We just need:

                Shots Succeeded
                ———————–
                Shots Attempted

                = percentage ( for each players’s entire career, not up to 2016 — something up to date).

                **Hoping Nic or someone on the Roar can drag this data. Do any of the Nzers have percentages on Ab kickers?

                It’s just a joke that we spend so much time debating kickers when we don’t have the stats for their entire careers.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:47pm
                soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:47pm | ! Report

                connor, length and position seem to me to be the only crucial ones to take account of and the website does that, and it gives flat goals kicked / attempted if you dont want to factor that in.

                has it for the 5 yr period up to this year.

                seems about as good as you’ll get so i cant offer more or better info to inform you than is on that site.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:03pm
              Chris R said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

              I’d like to see Foleys % for kicks more than 35m out, he’s a fair weather schoolboy kicker. Has cost the wallabies a lot of points because they don’t take kicks at goal they should be

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:14pm
                Eeds said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

                Also won nsw a super rugby title, aus a TRC and a World Cup quarter as well as top spot in the group stage as I remember it…

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:15pm
                Wallace footrot said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:15pm | ! Report

                As good as foley is at short range, he does nt have the technique or legs for long range which is critical for a world class place kicker. He is a machine around the park and as a play maker, he is the best all round we have. But that does not make him the best goal kicker. As Jack said it is an issue that needs to be addressed. It is nothing personal against the guy. Mick Byrne has complemented Reece badge as one of the best technique and it is technique that keeps high accuracy and distance. If you study Foleys technique against say Johnny Wilkinson’s or Dan Carters or even Johnathon Thurston’s you will see the differences. As foley does not have the distance his kicking from sidelines always has a more acute angle as he cannot reliably take it out further…this in turn opens him up to charge downs and at the very least increased pressure from runners. It’s in the physics of contact and his follow through or lack there of, height of the ball placement and contact angle…..maybe he has very tight hamstrings, or perhaps its just his anatomy but its just his power is not there as it should be.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:30am
        Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:30am | ! Report

        Connor, two things.

        1. Foley only takes easy kicks at goal, rejecting a lot of penalties other kickers try, thereby raising his percentage artificially.

        2. He has hot streaks where he kicks everything, but then he has nights when he is awful off the tee (Dunedin best example). Every kicker has off nights, but Foley is too streaky to be our goal-kicker, it haunts us in too many big matches.

        We should have Hodge practicing every day so that hopefully he can take over full time kicking duties.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:37am
          Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:37am | ! Report

          That’s rot. Your relentless anti Foley rants are bizarre. You’re now making stuff up. His play last night was good, his distribution and defence was excellent. He easily outplayed his opponent who youn rate higher. Hes a world class 10 and your bias is world class. You slag him on pretty much every forum but to slag after that win is just plain sad. Kicking last night on a wet night with a heavy ball was difficult for all.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:41am
            stainlesssteve said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:41am | ! Report

            aren’t the balls waterproof these days?

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:42am
            Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:42am | ! Report

            Interesting contribution.

            Did you either (a) read my comment or (b) watch the match?

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:48am
              Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:48am | ! Report

              Foley”artificially raises his kicking percentage”.??!! What a whacky assertion.

              He just takes easy shots? How do you write this stuff?

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:49am
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:49am | ! Report

                Do you see him taking many penalty kicks more than about 40m out, or from the right side of the field, or do the Waratahs and Wallabies when he is kicker usually kick for the corner in such situations?

                Nick Bishop described his goal-kicking as something along the lines of ‘barely average’, and Nick was right. By all means call him ‘world class’ and get Paul Cully and the rest of the Sydney Morning Herald media to agree with you (ignore the fact that the Blues are the only NZ SR team he might have started for), but at the end of the day even if he is the best option at 10 for the Wallabies at present, we should be trying to create competition for the goal-kicker.

                Hodge should be training kicking constantly and if he improves should take over the duties, because Foley is not a good enough goal-kicker over the long run.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:47am
                Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:47am | ! Report

                He kicks 15 in a row recently but you conveniently write that off. I’ve lost track of the number of games Foley has won at the death with a clutch kick under pressure, but whatever you do Fionn, don’t acknowledge those. His current form is excellent. FOX gave him their highest rating for his last match in SA, but you ignore that. He comprehensively outplayed lima last night, forcing Shag to shift him. Credit form you? His ball running. line breaks, distribution and passing since June have ignited the backline and underpinned the recent form improvement, but you give him no credit… Why? Because your biassed. You have written articles going back to 2015 repeatedly criticising him. You seem to focus on him. You have been bagging him for years, and have not let any opportunity go without putting in the boot. Bias dear Fionn is when you apply different standards to players you don’t like.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:52am
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:52am | ! Report

                Well, one of them was Scotland, but we were only in that position because of his horrible play earlier in the match, such as missing a bunch of easy kicks and getting charged down when under no pressure leading to a Scotland try. We lost the Dunedin Test (possibly robbing us of the Bledilsoe) due to his poor kicking.

                Then he goes and kicks 15 in a row, saving our bacon against South Africa twice. Then he has two poor showings.

                As I said, too hot and cold—not the longterm kicker that we want even if he continued to play 10.

                He didn’t comprehensively outplay Lima though, did he? They both had poor games. You speaking nonsense doesn’t make it true.

                ‘Bias, dear Cynical Play, is when you apply different standards to players you like.’

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:02am
                Charlie Turner said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:02am | ! Report

                Fionn is absolutely correct you can find the data to support his comments here http://goalkickers.co.za/#graphicSection .Foley has a flaw in his technique (stabbing) and its staggering Mick Byrne hasn’t corrected it. For me though it’s Foley’s passing that’s his weakness and the ground ball pass at the 3′ mark with a two man overlap is a great example.

                Stainless is also correct modern balls are waterproof! It may look water logged when it comes off Foley’s boot but water has nothing to do with it. Rain and wind effect the ball flight but a good technique and strike help mitigate both variables.

                I’m not a Foley fan but I’ll give him one thing, he’s a tough little bloke.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:42pm
                Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:42pm | ! Report

                Charlie Turner, Fionn is not “absolutely correct”. The data you linked shows only 6 Nations stats. It’s completely useless to demonstrate Foley’s kicking stats. Nice try though.

                In fact if you or Fionn had bothered to look for useable stats you would have seen categorically that Foley compares well in the goal kicking comparison

                http://linebreakrugby.com/2016/06/rugby-kicking-stats/

                better than:
                Cruden
                Sopoaga
                Barrett
                Mo’unga
                Cooper (by a mile)
                CLL

                on par with
                Carter,
                Lambie
                Jantjes
                Pollard

                and this
                https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wallabies/analysing-the-goalkicking-stats-of-the-wallabies-five-top-options/news-story/17c6e3f0ed4398286beaec868485741e

                and B Barrett is the worst goal kicker according to this
                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11736133

                But don’t let that stop you Fionn. Keep spewing the misinformation ‘bro.

                Your comment “Foley is not a good enough goal kicker” looks foolish and ill-informed, or is it just bias. And stop mis-quoting Nick Bishop. He has never called Foley’s goal kicking as “barely average”

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:11pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:11pm | ! Report

                Charlie, I wouldn’t bother. Cynical Play never lets empirical evidence or facts get in the way of his preconceived notions.

                CP claimed midway through the Super Rugby season—after the Brumbies had given the Waratahs a drubbing in Sydney—that the Waratahs were ‘the best Australian team, and getting better’. Facts don’t really matter with CP. CPs agenda comes through clear as day.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:58pm
                soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:58pm | ! Report

                CP perhaps its just that you couldnt figure out how to use the website. it loads to 6n as a default but you can change it to any comp or all internationals.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:02pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:02pm | ! Report

                Soapit, either that or Cynical is just cynically misrepresenting the facts and data. It suits his angle more.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:22pm
                Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:22pm | ! Report

                I worked the website fine. It actually says Foley kicks better than BB, QC and most other SH kickers. BF 75-76%. BB 69%. QC is 60% at best. Still Fionn shouts me down. Really hates to be proved wrong

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:29pm
                Taylorman said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:29pm | ! Report

                Think youll find Barrett had better stats in tests in 2017 than any of them. Those sites are useless. One dates back to 2016, the sa one hasnt updated since March! I mean who publishes a stats site and doesnt update it for seven months?

                Youre really discussing goalkicking ability based on last seasons stats? Well thats really useful isnt it.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:01pm
                Taylorman said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:01pm | ! Report

                Of the seven tests I could easily find the numbers Barrett kick 42 from 50 goals this year at 84%. I havent got the other Arg and SA ones but that wont change it much.

                Wont be anyone this year with that rate in tests I wouldnt think.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:31pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:31pm | ! Report

                Cynical, I don’t think I’ve ever claimed Barrett or Quade are better kickers than Foley. All three of them are pretty average goal-kickers.

                Lealiifano and Lance have been the best Aussie kickers for a couple of years by far. Check the 2016 stats and it the site backs that up.

                The point being, initially, that I made was that Foley isn’t a great goal-kicker. More to the point he is wildly inconcistent, and I would rather someone who kicks 70% consistently than someone who kicks, overall, at 75%, but oscillates between days of 100% and 30-40%, which is Foley.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:48pm
                Reverse Wheel said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:48pm | ! Report

                Fionn, just so you know, that frustration you feel about CP’s one-eyed view of Foley – well there’s plenty of us who feel the same way about you. We get it. You don’t rate him. We don’t need a dozen posts on every article rehashing the same old opinions to remind us.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 7:37am
                soapit said | October 23rd 2017 @ 7:37am | ! Report

                CP you could just say “yes you were right foley at 76.6%”

                no one ever claimed he wasnt better than some kickers out there and setting up that straw man is a fairly clear attempt to distract .

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 1:47pm
                Terry said | October 23rd 2017 @ 1:47pm | ! Report

                From the daily Telegraph.

                I spat my rumbo out when i read the last two sentences.

                Bernard Foley : rating 6

                It was almost Dunedin deja vu.

                In New Zealand’s South Island the Wallabies were made to rue a series of missed Foley kicks and his misfires almost cost Australia again.

                Foley missed two conversions and a penalty in the second half.

                The Wallabies playmaker also found the wet ball hard to handle.

                But you don’t win a Test against the All Blacks unless your playmaker is doing something right, and Foley’s composure and decision making proved vital.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:22am
            Jameswm said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:22am | ! Report

            CP – Foley did not have a good game. Way too many errors. Forget the goal kicking.

            • Roar Guru

              October 22nd 2017 @ 9:35am
              PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:35am | ! Report

              Foley defended better than usual.

              However he had 5 turnovers, Beale 4. Those 2 combined made up half of the 18 wallaby turnovers.

              Foley kicked poorly in general play as usual.

              His running game which is a strength was ineffective last night. Certainly not a good game.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:14pm
              Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:14pm | ! Report

              He set up the most crucial play of the game beautifully laying on Folau’s try. Some critical defensive efforts. Took on the line despite being targeted. Errors? Every player made errors. But he got the attack working well enough to beat the best team in the world, in conditions that suited them more than us. Foley is the whipping boy pretty much every game from the usual suspects on this forum. His goal kicking won us the draws against SA in the past 2 games. He was close to best on ground last match. Still …. he’s a Tah so put the boot into him, eh?

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 12:24pm
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:24pm | ! Report

                rubbish

                Genia passed to Beale who passed to Folau who beat 2 players to score.

                Hooper did the lead up work making a good run to get behind the defence to start it.

                Foley had nothing to do with it.

                Go back and look at it at the 39th minute.

                Foley didn’t set up any tries.

                He was involved in the Koroibete try but Folau did more to set that up for than Foley , check that out at the 56 min mark.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:23pm
                mikeylives said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:23pm | ! Report

                He didn’t have his best game, but the Koroibete try was largely down Foley’s quick and very good long pass under pressure creating a simple 2 on 1 for Folau and Koroibete.
                He also showed plenty of courage to shrug off a huge rib snapper and get straight back into it – that doesn’t go unnoticed by teammates.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:56pm
                Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:56pm | ! Report

                That pass made that try, no question. It was a try-making pass under huge pressure.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:48pm
                Connor33 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:48pm | ! Report

                PK. That 39th minute try was on the back of 12 phases. The Beale pass was the last phase and his role was an understated, but a good one that put Folau on the front foot. Beale had two other touches in the 12 phases including the kick return and beating a player to kick things off.

                Foley played a critical role that led to the break out down the left flank between the 3rd and 4th phase I think. He looped and passed to Beale.

                Looking at all 12 phases in their totality, it needs to go down as one of the best Australia has scored all season.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:23pm
                Rebellion said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:23pm | ! Report

                You should write science fiction novels CP – you’re a natural?
                Foley got pushed off in tackles and had a shocker in general play – someone actually counted above that he turned the ball over 5 times and he almost lost the match with his boot like he did in Dunedin last month.
                What a Star !

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:54pm
                Taylorman said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:54pm | ! Report

                Yes his last two tests hes been pretty average, to poor. His link pass for the Koro try was the best thing he did all night, but some things were diaboloical.

                On those two performances Id be looking change him, maybe for Cooper, maybe try Hodge or even Beale as a stop gap.

                Interesting theres not a better lineup for the position, its the quarterback, pitcher equivalent for rugby so you’d think everyone would be dying to play it, especially in oz.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:13pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:13pm | ! Report

                There’s a lot of pressure on you as a 10, a lot of decisions have to be made in a very short period of time. Playing 12-15 you have so much more time, and get to run more, don’t have to be so technically proficient at passing and the like.

                I agree, however, it is sort of the marquee position. I especially would have thought that this current generation would be full of aspiring 10s as they would have grown up being inspired by Larkahm.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:22pm
            Selector said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:22pm | ! Report

            I am all for reducing the Foley bashing, particularly on his kicking, but saying he was anything other than terrible last night shows your bias in his favour. He has had some very good form in recent matches, but if there was any option on the bench, I would have dragged him with 30 to go.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:30am
          PiratesRugby said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:30am | ! Report

          The Wallabies win in spite of Foley not because of him. But now is not the time to harp on about the glaring deficiencies in Wallabies’ coaching and selection – we beat the All Blacks. Even if the starting XV were all Waratahs, any team that beats this All Black team is entitled to celebrate.
          I’m looking forward to Super Rugby 2018, with Genia, Hodge and Korobeite coming back for the Rebels. Has Coleman signed with anyone for 2018? Crossing fingers.

          • Roar Guru

            October 22nd 2017 @ 11:14am
            PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:14am | ! Report

            Cheika deserves credit for this game not just grudging silence to not criticise him for a day or so.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:28pm
              Ruckin Oaf said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:28pm | ! Report

              Yep this game is a plus in Cheika’s ledger.

              And if he keeps getting results like this he will finish well in the black.

              To my mind though he’s got to get a few more good results to break even first.

              Still let’s hope we’ve seen some “green shoots” for Australian Rugby

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:50pm
                Connor33 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:50pm | ! Report

                And this is a game that we weren’t expected to win of the 4 remaining.

            • October 23rd 2017 @ 12:06pm
              PiratesRugby said | October 23rd 2017 @ 12:06pm | ! Report

              Given your analysis of Foley’s game above, I’m not sure a lot of credit is owed to Cheika. But for Foley, we might have smashed the ABs. Although Genia’s anticipation of the ABs switch play off the back of the scrum led to Hodge’s try. It was either great instinctive rugby from Genia or, more likely, homework by the Wallabies. Cheika can rightly take the credit for that.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:30am
        Pie Thrower said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:30am | ! Report

        Foley deserves every bit of criticism that comes his way. His kicking for goal isn’t up to standard, his kicking in general play is poor and his kicking for Touch is short. Defensively he is a liability. He had a shocker last night.

        If a bloke called Quade turned in a performance like Foley did last night there would be lynch mobs out for him

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:31am
          riddler said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:31am | ! Report

          pie-man… you are drawing a very long bow in assuming that quade would have made the tackles that foley made today..

          i saw he missed one.. but that was not the cause of the try.. our revolving door defense still has some issues..

          and in general the lad defended in his channel.. and completed some cracking tackles..

          i counted 3 errors.. beside the goal kicking.. which i agree to disagree with people on..

          bad pass in the 3rd minute..

          and two dropped balls..

          in between there was some very good defense.. some good scrambling to fall on the chip.. a charge down and some good distribution..

          a great game, no it wasn’t, but as bad as some people, equally no it wasn’t..

          on a side note… anybody see where quade finished in the pilecki medal count? 😉

          • Roar Guru

            October 22nd 2017 @ 9:37am
            PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:37am | ! Report

            5 turnovers

            What about kicking out on the full despite being yelled at that it was taken back?

            Foley did defend well, better than his usual efforts.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:44am
              Sgt Pepperoni said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:44am | ! Report

              He obviously didn’t hear

              Gonna rate the players on their hearing now?

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 10:07am
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:07am | ! Report

                the other players near him did, his fault for not paying attention to a ref yelling at him.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:13am
                riddler said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:13am | ! Report

                which players?

                who was near him?

                and if so why didn’t they tell him?

                on many occasion i remember telling a teammate when they could or could not kick it out..

                also watch it again.. foley took an age to kick it and it was a good kick..

                you really think he would give the kiwis a lineout just inside our 22 on purpose??

                really pk you do like to draw a very long bow..

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 10:16am
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:16am | ! Report

                of course he didn’t do it on purpose, he was focused on his kick and shut out everything else, he could hear Barnes but had tuned him out called selective hearing.

                Players need to tune out all the noise except for the ref and their playmakers calls.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:22am
                Sgt Pepperoni said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:22am | ! Report

                ‘he could hear Barnes but had tuned him out called selective hearing’

                I reckon he flat out couldn’t hear him. Also nobody near him. Atmosphere looked amazing – would’ve loved to have been there

              • Roar Rookie

                October 22nd 2017 @ 11:54am
                Dwards said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:54am | ! Report

                I was there. Right in front of that kick – the ruling was based on being touched in flight and Foley had no idea. We had no idea. There is no way he could have heard Barnes who barely could keep up with the ball.

                Atmosphere was spectacular.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:34pm
                Internal Fixation said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:34pm | ! Report

                He was also absolutely flattened in a tackle a minute earlier. Head was probably still ringing.

                Tough customer for all his flaws.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:52pm
                Reverse Wheel said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:52pm | ! Report

                You’re being daft PK.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:10am
              riddler said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:10am | ! Report

              pk.. would you be so kind as to have the minute and sec of those 5 turnovers.. personally don’t remember them but am more than happy to be proved wrong..

              you know how it is in this trump age.. people throw out random stats and the masses assume that they must be true!

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 10:19am
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:19am | ! Report

                I am not going to that much effort to please you.

                The official stats list him at 5 turnovers on multiple sites , that is good enough for me.

                It confirms the number of times I remember him dropping the ball, a pass that hit the deck, or losing the ball in a tackle.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:43am
          Col in paradise said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:43am | ! Report

          I agree totally Foley was the only Wallaby who had a crap game – he had a dog of a game. I have been watching the news and reading some sport coverage and was wondering if I was imagining how bad he played as seems they are being a bit gentle on him . We cannot win the world cup with Foley at 10 – and the Poms and Jones will be hoping he plays at Twickenam!

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:49am
            riddler said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:49am | ! Report

            i pretty sure, not 100% confident by all means..

            that you have zero idea what jones is thinking..

            foley i hope will be at 10 and i think we have a good sniff of rumbling the pommies if we get the breakdown right..

            as for the wc.. who knows.. anyone can win on their day..

            enjoy the victory of today.. tastes great!

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:24am
            Jameswm said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:24am | ! Report

            Col who else is there? There’s no guarantee Quade would have done any better

            • Roar Guru

              October 22nd 2017 @ 9:38am
              PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:38am | ! Report

              There are no guarantees, but it is poor squad selection to not have a backup 10 though.

          • Roar Guru

            October 22nd 2017 @ 9:40am
            PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:40am | ! Report

            Beale didn’t have a good game either, he made far too many errors as well.

            He looks back to his bad old days in taking the high ball. I would have grave doubts on him being the fulltime f/b now , the other team would keep hoisting bombs his way.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:54am
              Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:54am | ! Report

              It’ll never happen, but Kerevi and Hodge are both making claims to play 12 for the next few matches.

              I think Beale might be a little tired. I would rest or bench him against the Barbarians and against Japan.

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 10:08am
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:08am | ! Report

                Hodge yes, Kerevi no since he gets very little game time

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:28pm
            William Tell said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:28pm | ! Report

            Give it up – analyse him all you like….Foley is the 10. He will be so long as Cheika has that little tuft of hair at the front of his skull.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:19am
          Sgt Pepperoni said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:19am | ! Report

          I reckon Foley’s kicking in general play has massively improved. Particularly in terms of distance but also they seem to have fixed the charge down issue which was a major killer

          Last year his kicks were a hapless pop gun. This year at least a workmanlike field mortar. Still a way to go to reach Hodgeys howitzer. Byrne effect perhaps?

          Also Foley’s defence last night – and the whole Aus defence – was complete commitment. I feel that’s where they have turned things around

          Credit where credit is due

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:32am
            The Stranglers said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:32am | ! Report

            Sgt Pepperoni- that is a grouse pseudonym

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:47am
              Sgt Pepperoni said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:47am | ! Report

              Thanks mate

              Although ‘Sgt Pepperoni’ being liked by ‘the strangler’ is a joke that writes itself

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:32pm
            William Tell said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:32pm | ! Report

            What’s not to like about the chance to learn on the job at the top level of any international sport. Who’d knock that back.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:04am
          Bing said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:04am | ! Report

          The biggest issue for me with Foley is he shouldn’t kick for the line or for goal. I can handle him in the team just stop use him as his kicking is popgun at best and it makes me cringe especially when Hodge is in the team.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:33pm
            Ruckin Oaf said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:33pm | ! Report

            OK so he shouldn’t kick fair enough. His passing is fairly poor at times too so maybe he shouldn’t do that either. His tackling isn’t great so there is another thing that he shouldn’t be doing and he’s not all that good under the high ball so that’s, yet again, another thing he shouldn’t be doing.

            So why is he in the team again? And why at fly-half ?

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:50pm
              Bing said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:50pm | ! Report

              Why does he clear from inside the 22 or penalty kicks when Hodge can kick so much further? Foley’s clearing kicks barely gain 20 metres. Let Foley concentrate on running the backline and the easy close in goal kicks.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:09pm
          Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:09pm | ! Report

          Foley’s got the best stats of any SH kicker coming into this year. Dont believe Fionn’s misinformation.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:16pm
            Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

            What ‘misinformation’ is that, champ? Me saying that he is a hot and cold kicker?

            I’m also presuming you didn’t look at Charlie’s link, or check the history of

            That figures, your agenda is clear as day.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:26pm
              Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:26pm | ! Report

              The link supports my comment. Did you actually do the comparisons?

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:41pm
            Rebellion said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:41pm | ! Report

            Cynical Play, out of curiosity – are you a 14 year old bra-burner or member of the young Labour party?

            Why are you so ‘stood on’ when your provincial side’s coach and most of your players are unjustifiably selected in the national side.

            Can’t you just enjoy the favourable injustices in peace.

            Your posts are just so ridiculous I sometimes wonder what you expect readers to think ??

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:47pm
              Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:47pm | ! Report

              Rebellion your posts inspire me. but you cant spell. You, Fionn, Marto …it’s like A Marx Bros movie. Marto is definitely Harpo. Fionn is definitely Groucho, You must be the ugly one. You voted No didn’t you?

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:25pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:25pm | ! Report

                The irony of you criticising someone for spelling incorrectly by writing ‘can’t’ as ‘cant’, while starting a sentence with a lower case letter and throwing in random capital letters in sentences.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:31pm
                Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:31pm | ! Report

                Sweetie if he’s going to have a crack at me for being in the Labor Party which I’m not (only a drooler would consider that an insult) he might check the spelling. It catches out the poorly read, that word. It seems also you probably meant to criticise my punctuation but couldn’t spell it, right?

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:01pm
              bigbaz said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:01pm | ! Report

              Ahaha Reb, has anyone seen CP and ‘Twas in the same room together, maybe sharing a drink with Alan Jones.

          • Roar Rookie

            October 22nd 2017 @ 4:19pm
            Paulo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:19pm | ! Report

            I couldn’t care less about Foley and his kicking. Just want to point out some misinformation.

            CP – you disregard the stats from goalkickers.co.za because they only look at 6 countries. Then list 3 sites to back up your claims.

            One site actually uses the goalkickers.co.za as their source, so based on your own rules, we discount that one.

            One looks at just Aussie kickers, so again, have to discount it, based on same assumption of not enough comparison. If 6 countries is not enough, then 1 country is surely not enough.

            The other makes some assumptions which invalidate the data. Namely that the kicking difficulty is normalized due to randomness of where tries are scored or penalties taken. Tries and penalties are not taken randomly. If you do not trust your kicker, you do not take difficult penalties, you kick for touch. This undermines the assumption the stats are based on.

            All in all, goalkickers.co.za is the most objective, they do not have an agenda to discredit Foley. And it does seem to be the most robust kicking analysis around. Sorry.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:01pm
              Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:01pm | ! Report

              Foley kick at over 79%. Best in SH on the stats you mention.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 7:34am
                Ruckin' Oaf said | October 23rd 2017 @ 7:34am | ! Report

                Yeah and if I stand a foot away from a dart board I can hit the target nearly every time.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:13am
        Rock said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:13am | ! Report

        He have been largely good with ball in hand this year in test matches, but his kicking from both off the tee and in hand have been very average at best.

        These are part of his role in the the team he is selected for and if this Australia team are to become a consistent top side then these parts of his role need to be much better.

        It doesn’t matter ‘how hard he tries’, if he’s not performing every part of his role on a consistent basis (which he has not) any criticism is fair and reasonable.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:41am
        advrider-oz said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:41am | ! Report

        Leave Foley alone. He is best 10 we have by a long shot.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:33am
          Hoppers said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:33am | ! Report

          As a QC and Reds fan I heartedly agree.

          I’m very tired of the Foley and Tah bashing on this site. Foley gives it his all, every game and although he has his off nights, his kicking is sound enough.

          It was our poor restart receives that did us in, in Dunedin, as much as Foley’s kicking. Anyone note how much better our restarts have been of late?

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:37pm
            Ruckin Oaf said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:37pm | ! Report

            Hey Hoppers,

            Mate the Wallabies can select me at fly half if they like.

            I’ll give it my all you can count on that. I’d be bloody hopeless though – but I’d sure give it my all.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:50pm
            Rebellion said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:50pm | ! Report

            I’m sorry but that is a poor comment.
            The Tah bashing is primarily on Chieka’s continuous and unapologetically biased selections of Hanigan, Phipps & Robertson with some people (myself included) of the opinion that Hooper has been a protected species which has caused a superior No.7 (Pocock) or 7’s (Pocock & Gill) to make room for him at any cost.
            You won’t see me complaining about Kepu or Folau (QLDer) and I’ve rated Dempsey highly since witnessing his progression in 2016. I’ve got no problems with Foley at 10 but it’s very typical of Chieka’s bias that he has given him zero chances this year. Pretty poor considering he outplayed Foley in a Wallabies jersey last season

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:22pm
            Drongo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:22pm | ! Report

            Quade is better and proved it last year when he played better than Foley in every game they both played in. I support Cheika and recognise the good things Foley does. He is a competent player. But QC is better in every area, except defence where they are about equal and he is much better at steering the team around.
            Cheika deserves full credit for this win but selection has long been his weakness and the selection of Foley as the only 10 in the side is a selection blunder that will cost the Wallabies dearly if it isn’t rectified asap.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:17pm
              Rebellion said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:17pm | ! Report

              Foley is better at taking on the line himself – this and a reduction in pace has been the biggest hinderence to Cooper since his knee recon after 2011 RWC

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 8:21pm
                Ruckin' Oaf said | October 23rd 2017 @ 8:21pm | ! Report

                “Foley is better at taking on the line himself”

                Yep that just leaves every thing else that Cooper is better at 🙂

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:57pm
              Reverse Wheel said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:57pm | ! Report

              I’d argue that selection is the biggest weakness of the roar rather than Cheika. Some deadset dud judges of rugby here. Refer above.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:02am
        Terry Tavita said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:02am | ! Report

        hodge had a blinder last night..he was also 100 percent from the tee on the mud..and they weren’t easy strikes..

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:06am
        soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:06am | ! Report

        76.6% career connor. mid 70’s andthis with the benefits from a risk free approach to taking shots from his captain.

        he’s had some very good games but some shockers and deserves to cop it at times (and you cant be so naive to not know theres plenty of conjecture over whether he’s the best we have).

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:10pm
          Connor33 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:10pm | ! Report

          I thought he was closer to 77-78.

          How many has he attempted?

          How many slotted?

          And out of curiosity, what’s the source? I’d be curious to know if there are stats for other kickers on it?

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:00pm
            Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:00pm | ! Report

            see my entry above

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:48pm
              Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:48pm | ! Report

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:07pm
                soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:07pm | ! Report

                thats a blog article that references its stats to a website that does not work.

                given the .za one works well and can be checked im going to mark that one as more reliable for now.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:02pm
                Cynical Play said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:02pm | ! Report

                Works for me

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 7:38am
                soapit said | October 23rd 2017 @ 7:38am | ! Report

                i wish i could be sure you are understanding what it is that supposed to be working

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:13pm
            soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:13pm | ! Report

            posted it above but its form here

            http://goalkickers.co.za/

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:31am
        Ian said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:31am | ! Report

        Totally agree also.

        The Foley bashing is just a bunch of Queenslanders spreading bile because their favourite simply isn’t of the same standard. He’s a very good player but he isn’t as good as Foley.

        No amount of bashing Foley will make your boy a better player.

        • Roar Guru

          October 22nd 2017 @ 9:46am
          PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:46am | ! Report

          Evidence based criticism is not Foley bashing. The facts are he is an inconsistent goal kicker with limited range.

          He makes a lot of errors in a lot of games including this one.

          His general play kicking lacks distance and good decision making in its placement, they are nothing kicks.

          He has improved his passing game a fair bit though.

          He deserves to be the 10 for the rest of the year but based on the 2 previous games where he was very good but not on this one.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:51pm
        Simoc said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:51pm | ! Report

        Foley played better than the NZ 10.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:08pm
        Rob Malcolm said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:08pm | ! Report

        Agreed

      • Roar Guru

        October 22nd 2017 @ 7:51pm
        Timbo (L) said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:51pm | ! Report

        Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

        Here is a thought experiment:
        Put a degree of difficulty weighting on Bernard and Lima’s kicks – like at the diving.

        Foley is potting 70% of single degree of difficulty attempts, Sopoaga, is 60% of Degree 5 attempts.

        Hoops just doesn’t ask him to do the hard stuff, because he knows he can’t get them over the bar..

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:00pm
          Reverse Wheel said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:00pm | ! Report

          Two misses from the sideline and one from 45 out in the rain. Yep, gimmes.

          • Roar Guru

            October 23rd 2017 @ 9:47am
            Timbo (L) said | October 23rd 2017 @ 9:47am | ! Report

            Look at the bigger picture,

            If the 2 from the sideline were penalties they would have kicked from touch. 45 m should be doable.

            • October 23rd 2017 @ 12:07pm
              Wallace footrot said | October 23rd 2017 @ 12:07pm | ! Report

              Definitely doable for a professional. He is a little general around the park but his place kicking technique is flawed and he should not be taking them from tries scored wide out or anything longer than 30 metres in front. I dont know how Mick or somebody has not corrected his technique but I do know Mick is a big fan of Reece Hodges technique. Perhaps it is just Bernards anatomical mechanics, which if the case is hard to correct, but I would like to see him swing more through the ball….greater follow through, with the ball place higher and more upright to increase the contact zone. What is worse is the continued misses in front will eventually have a detrimental effect on his generally kicking as he will lose confidence.

              • Roar Guru

                October 23rd 2017 @ 5:08pm
                Timbo (L) said | October 23rd 2017 @ 5:08pm | ! Report

                I think Reece loses a bit of accuracy as he gets closer to the sticks. Full respect to that cannon mounted to his right boot though.

                Quade and Jono are better options up close, What about Beale? I no his longer range stuff is OK, how about Up close? Any Wasps followers out there?

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