The Wrap: Eddie Jones delighted with “proper Test match” win over Wales

Geoff Parkes Columnist

By Geoff Parkes, Geoff Parkes is a Roar Expert

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    The Cheshire cat lurking within Eddie Jones burst into full view immediately after his England side secured a hard-fought 12-6 win over Wales at Twickenham.

    Grinning from ear to ear, Jones described the contest as “a proper Test match”, and he was clearly delighted with his side’s ability to control a game that, despite the close scoreline and a controversial ‘no-try’ ruling against Wales, was never in doubt for the home side.

    Jones certainly seemed happy with the work of TMO Glenn Newman who, even if he was the only person at the ground to believe that Anthony Watson got a touch to a loose ball in the in-goal before Gareth Anscombe, happened to be the only man whose opinion counted.

    Whatever may or may not have happened had the call gone in Wales’ favour, England were better organised, able to exert far more pressure on Wales than vice-versa, and were more skilful and decisive in clutch moments.

    This was evident as early as the third minute when Owen Farrell, who continues to mature into a fine all-around player, kicked with purpose and intent expertly into space.

    Wallabies fans – and Kurtley Beale – need no reminding of Jonny May’s willingness to chase kicks, and his pace, slide and collect to finish was pure class.

    May didn’t have as much work to do for his second try, the beneficiary of concerted pressure from his pack freeing up Joe Launchbury on the left edge, who delivered a superb left-handed, round-arm release for the score.

    Elite players derive motivation from manifold sources, but it was as if this commanding performance from Launchbury was his way of extending a middle finger to Wales coach Warren Gatland, who had left him out of last year’s Lions tour to New Zealand.

    After their domination of Scotland, Wales this week – in particular, flyhalf Rhys Patchell – were given far less time and space in which to operate and as a result, looked ponderous by comparison to their hosts.

    They also missed the spark of Leigh Halfpenny from the back, and in the process, decisively lost the kicking (and catching) battle.

    This was the domain of England custodian Mike Brown, who was named man-of-the-match – a single handling mistake on such a greasy night an outstanding return.

    England rugby international Mike Brown

    (AFP PHOTO / ADRIAN DENNIS)

    Wales’ fortunes improved as the game loosened up in the second half, a thrilling counter-attack seemingly setting up a try for centre Scott Williams, only to be denied by a desperate tackle by replacement Sam Underhill.

    This attack and others were sparked by Gareth Anscombe who, after taking over the playmaker role, looked as assured as Patchell hadn’t.

    But for all Wales’ improved endeavour, England maintained their composure and their nine-point buffer until it was too late for Wales to do anything other than secure a consolation bonus point.

    In the aftermath, there were inklings of criticism that England, given their dominance in the first half, never managed to truly put Wales away and that the All Blacks will have lost no sleep as a result.

    Frankly, this is a question that doesn’t need to be asked or answered right now. England is focused on winning the Six Nations and their tactics and execution – for the conditions and opponent on the day – were exactly what was required.

    Bear in mind that Farrell never once kicked for goal from a penalty – a quite remarkable turn of events, where on most other days he could have counted on Wales transgressing at least once to keep the scoreboard ticking over.

    This unusual quirk is in no way intended as a slight on referee Jerome Garces, who in fact was impressively calm, relaxed and accurate throughout.

    A more predictable outcome ensued in Dublin, where Ireland soon raced to a match-winning lead, scoring eight tries to easily account for Italy by 56-19. Italy displayed flashes of promise and ability but, typically, only after the contest had been decided.

    Twenty-one-year-old Matteo Minozzi showed great spark and looks to be a player of real potential, but the Azzurri badly need one or two big forwards to step up and assume the leadership mantle that for too long has been borne solo by the at times superhuman 34-year-old Sergio Parisse.

    Tadgh Furlong and Robbie Henshaw are two major injury concerns for Ireland, and while Joe Schmidt’s squad depth is impressive, should the Six Nations come down to a decider against England – as it appears likely – he will need his top liners to be fit enough to travel to Twickenham.

    simon-zebo-ireland-rugby-union-2016

    (AP Photo/Kamil Krzaczynski)

    If the England-Wales game was “proper rugby” it’s hard to know what to make of the Brisbane Global Tens, taken out this year by the Blues, 10-7 in the final against the Hurricanes, courtesy of a late, hard-earned try in heavy contact by George Moala.

    While everyone knows this result means nothing with respect to Super Rugby, winners are grinners and it is so long since the Blues have won any silverware that even the bulky, Year Ten metalwork project masquerading as a trophy will be welcome at Eden Park.

    Another misfire was the Hurricane’s teal uniform – an unnecessary venture away from their distinctive yellow and black, and one that made viewing of their matches against the Waratahs and the Blues far more difficult than it needed to be.

    Whatever one’s take on the rugby – which at times closely resembled sevens and at others provided glimpses of forward structure – participating players will be rewarded with a comparative boost in match fitness entering the Super Rugby season.

    In that respect, it was a privilege to witness the performance of 44-year-old Andrew Walker for the Brumbies, playing long minutes and not at all looking out of place alongside professional players less than half his age.

    The tournament will likely prove beneficial for a number of Queensland and NSW women’s players, a number of whom put themselves into the frame for a professional contract with the Australian Sevens program, and others for the 15s.

    Heading that list was 17-year-old Alycia Fakaosilea, who proved that you don’t need to be built like a stereotypical rugby player to be a good one. She was named the player of the tournament, winning a shiny new wok for her troubles.

    While lacking the presence and sense of occasion of a world circuit sevens event, one thing the Tens got right was not to clog the schedule with meaningless Bowl and Plate matches.

    But with only lukewarm crowd interest in Brisbane, Super Rugby coaches there under sufferance rather than choice and no prospect of other northern hemisphere clubs joining the fray even after only two years, the longevity of the Tens must be under question.

    If Jerome Garces was relaxed at Twickenham, how about New Zealand referee Paul Williams, who was on the whistle for Edinburgh’s last minute 29-24 win over Leinster.

    Calling Leinster halfback Jamieson Gibson-Park over for a word about trying to milk a penalty, Williams might have been expected to say something like “Blue nine, don’t try any of that stuff again.”

    Williams, channelling Kiwi brotherhood perhaps, instead chose a more familiar route, calling out “Hey, Jammo.”

    Great to see the refereeing fraternity loosening up somewhat, although Welsh fans with an angry eye towards Glenn Newman might beg to differ.

    Geoff Parkes
    Geoff Parkes

    Geoff is a Melbourne-based sports fanatic and writer who started contributing to The Roar in 2012 under the pen name Allanthus. His first book, A World in Union Conflict; The Global Battle For Rugby Supremacy, was released in December 2017 to critical acclaim. For details on the book visit www.geoffparkes.com. Meanwhile, his twin goals of achieving a single figure golf handicap and owning a fast racehorse remain tantalisingly out of reach.

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    The Crowd Says (212)

    • Columnist

      February 12th 2018 @ 6:52am
      Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 6:52am | ! Report

      UPDATE

      Scotland got their Six Nations campaign back on the rails overnight, scoring a 32-26 win over France at Murrayfield.
      This was the classic game of two halves – a frantic, running first half where both sides scored two tries, before the game evolved into a more attritional finale, with Scotland adapting better, Greig Laidlaw kicking six penalties to make the difference.

      France showed flashes of brilliance in the first half, winger Teddy Thomas was again slippery, but as replacements and fitness queries kicked in, they reverted to more ineffectual individual play in the second. They may still cause headaches for England and Wales but clearly still have a long way to go to develop a consistent, test quality side.

      Scotland will be pleased to erase the memory of Cardiff, but despite the improvement it’s unlikely that Eddie Jones will lose much sleep.

      • February 12th 2018 @ 3:54pm
        cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 3:54pm | ! Report

        France are not fit enuf to play the way they play – at fast pace without break .

        i think there was like one play that went on for like 3 minutes !

        it seems to me the coach is still having a look at different players.

        i said once in these pages that LaRochelle’s center Geoffrey Doumayrou is very good , in form and has pace. he showed that last night.

        but not sure if they have a flyhalf to play super fast running rugger. maybe Camille Lopez….

      • Roar Guru

        February 12th 2018 @ 4:11pm
        The Neutral View From Sweden said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:11pm | ! Report

        A great Test to watch. And good to see that Scotland’s revival is not all hype. Laidlaw made a huge statement in his “comeback”.

        But what is going on with Finn Russell? He has probably been the worst player on the paddock two weeks in a row. And his mistakes cost points. A lot of points.

        Not sure there is anything new to say about France… Been there. Done that.

        • Columnist

          February 12th 2018 @ 5:22pm
          Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:22pm | ! Report

          Russell does seem to be off his game NV. He’s a good player, let’s see how he goes in the coming rounds.

    • February 12th 2018 @ 7:06am
      concerned supporter said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:06am | ! Report

      Thanks Geoff,
      Two things that stood out for me.
      1/ Gareth Anscombe was outstanding for Wales, in particular when he moved from No 15 to 10.
      2/ Offside, offside. A very fine line between onside & offside with the England rush defence.
      A second referee like the NRL maybe? A simple to police offside rule?Defence won the game for England.

      • Columnist

        February 12th 2018 @ 7:49am
        Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:49am | ! Report

        Hi cs

        Not sure that two referees are the answer. But can we get more productivity out of the two assistant referees?

        Agree that beating the offside line is a blight on the game. But I’m also in the camp that believes that when you break down replays, many of the instances that look like off-side in real time are not actually so. And there is also a grey issue around ‘when is the ball actually out?’ with halfbacks seemingly now allowed to place their feet and hands on the ball and be protected.

        Heard an interesting interview with Scott Robertson who explained how the Crusaders changed their defensive mindset and switched to what i think he described as an ‘extreme rush defence’ or something like that – obviously with great success!

        • February 12th 2018 @ 12:09pm
          ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 12:09pm | ! Report

          Regards the grey area when is the ball out Geoff.

          I recall watching Saracens first game of this season.

          Virtually the first ruck of the game I watched Saracens half back Wigglesworth rake the ball to the back with his foot. He then picked the ball up and put it down again in his preferred position at the back.

          He then surveyed the territory as the seconds ticked by then picked the ball up again and proceeded with his clearing box kick.

          I remember thinking… Gee how more contrived can our game become.

          • Columnist

            February 12th 2018 @ 1:12pm
            Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 1:12pm | ! Report

            I’m a bit torn Clarke. I hate seeing examples like that one you’ve outlined. The leeway that halfbacks get sometimes borders on the ridiculous. If they’re messing around like that they should be fair game.

            On the other hand I also don’t want to see defences all over the receiver ten yards behind the advantage line…

            • February 12th 2018 @ 3:41pm
              cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 3:41pm | ! Report

              @ Geoff Parkes

              having watched quite a few matches , now im struggling to remember which one –

              but in one match the ref was giving more leeway to defence , saying the ball is out when the s/h was having a rest behind the pack.

              am wondering was it Raynol ?

              what happened to the 5 second LAW?

              for that matter what happened to the straight scrum feed???

              last week in 6N it was many free kicks for “crooked feed” . this week i can hardly remember one – DUH.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 4:52pm
                ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:52pm | ! Report

                Yes I think you are right. In one 6N match the referee yelled out ball out on a couple of occasions and there was also some emphasis on players binding to the ruck fully. May have been the same match.

                None of that in R2 however.

              • Columnist

                February 12th 2018 @ 5:25pm
                Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:25pm | ! Report

                Yes CUW, the crooked feed clampdown seemed to run out of puff pretty quickly didn’t it?

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:47pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:47pm | ! Report

                @ ClarkeG

                now that u mention it – it is same match

                and Mathew Raynol – many think he is the best in France 😀

                he said to Parrise ” look Sergio – im not here to help you , im here to referee the match…” sweet 😀

              • February 13th 2018 @ 8:38am
                ClarkeG said | February 13th 2018 @ 8:38am | ! Report

                Yep . if only more referees took that advice.

              • February 14th 2018 @ 8:38pm
                cuw said | February 14th 2018 @ 8:38pm | ! Report

                dig this 😀

                ” England coach Eddie Jones hits back after World Rugby admit Wales were robbed by TMO mistake in Six Nations defeat at Twickenham ”

                http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5388031/Jones-hits-World-Rugby-admit-Wales-robbed.html

    • February 12th 2018 @ 7:15am
      Cynical Play said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:15am | ! Report

      The gap was small between England and Wales. The kicking game of England was superior and their mid-field defence was effective. Wales lacked the creativity of the England 10-12 pair. Otherwise, Hansen will lose little sleep over any serious challenge for the World No 1 ranking. England could have been penalised alot more for ruck infringements but the Ref kept the game flowing well I thought.

      • Columnist

        February 12th 2018 @ 8:00am
        Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:00am | ! Report

        Yeah it was a small gap CP, but it was there. That difference in creativity in the halves (and composure) counted for plenty.

        • February 12th 2018 @ 10:06am
          Fionn said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:06am | ! Report

          I think England need a better back-row if they want to seriously challenge New Zealand—the back-row just doesn’t look dynamic or balanced enough to me, and I know that Vunipola and Hughes are injured—and I think they need to promote George to starting hooker sooner rather than later too.

          That being said, I think England look like the better coached team than the All Blacks currently. Since the 2016 Spring Tour until the end of 2017 the All Blacks were not the same team as that from 2011-15. I suspect the All Blacks are still the better team by a way though based on the individual brilliance of many of the All Blacks, but they aren’t playing as cohesively as a team.

          • Columnist

            February 12th 2018 @ 10:23am
            Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:23am | ! Report

            Agree that they are missing the impact running of Billy Vunipola Fionn.
            Although he’s out so much these days he’s almost not worth considering as a regular now?

            • February 12th 2018 @ 10:28am
              Fionn said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:28am | ! Report

              That’s a fair point, Geoff. Hughes is a very good backup though, and would certainly start at number 8 for the Wallabies were he available, I think.

              For England’s sake I hope I am wrong, but I can see disaster striking by the 2019 WC in the form of injuries given the injury rates in the Premiership.

              England still doesn’t have the depth of New Zealand. Maybe not even of South Africa if the rumours are true and Rassie is looking to use far more foreign based Boks.

              • Columnist

                February 12th 2018 @ 10:43am
                Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:43am | ! Report

                They’re both good points.

                If Erasmus really is able to ‘pick the best of the best’ then it’s ‘game on’ again for the Boks. But he will still have to manage quotas and preparation very carefully.

                Jones wants to win a World Cup, the clubs want to manage and use their players in the premiership. So there are some tensions yet to be played out there. There is also the matter of Eddie’s typical ‘use by’ date coming up soon – certainly before the RWC starts.

                So yes, as well as England have been going, there are potentially some tricky times ahead.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 4:02pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:02pm | ! Report

                if all are fir England will play with Billy at 8 , Sam Underhill at 7 and Robshaw / haskell at 6.

                i think Eddie worries about the leadership on field – hence the oldies like Hartley , Robshaw , Haskell, Brown.

                tho he has made Farrell VC , Eddie knows he is a divisive figure and can be an irritant to opposition and the ref.

                u got to wait till year end matches – when Michael Rhodes will be qualified and Brad Shields will be in England – to se what the selection policy is.

                Here is a name to watch out for – JACK WILLIS of Wasps. he is a 6.5 , maybe around 20 years old and built like Haskell 🙂

                he was MOM last night when Wasps’ 14 men ( for 60 minutes no less) beat Quins by a mile .

              • February 12th 2018 @ 4:44pm
                Ben said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:44pm | ! Report

                Cuw….Excuse me for having reservations about your opinions on good or bad players after you almost harassed me off the site for daring to say Vaea Fifita would be an AB…not good enough you said.
                Or when i ascerted Ben Smith would be an AB…too small you said.
                Or the most ridicule you gave me when i said James Lowe has defensive issues preventing him from being an AB…

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:44pm
                FunBus said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:44pm | ! Report

                The intriguing thing will be when everyone’s fit, what Jones thinks about Simmonds. He could play 7 which would mean a much more dynamic backrow. Lawes Vunipola and Simmonds ticks most boxes.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:53pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:53pm | ! Report

                @ FunBus

                i read somewhere that Eddie thinks SS is a 7 – probably coz he is very small compared to the two giant 8s he has.

                btw , Nathan Hughes returned after 4 moths for Wasps , and looked ok tho a little unfit :).

                Laws tho good at club level is not that great at 6 at test level , methinks. same goes for itoje. both are good for a stop-gap 20 minutes but not a full match.

                i think he is there at 6 becoz the lineout is less strong when there is no Haskell or Hughes. SS is like Pocock or Hooper when it comes to lineout.

                Nathan Hughes and James Haskell are genuine lineout options. when neither plays Laws or Itoje have to play at 6.

              • Roar Guru

                February 12th 2018 @ 11:00pm
                Rugby Fan said | February 12th 2018 @ 11:00pm | ! Report

                You can’t leave out the Curry twins and Jack Clifford when thinking about back row options because they have been in the mix before. Then again, it may well be that Jones decides he hasn’t got enough matches left to give everyone playing time before the Cup, so ignores them, even when the are back from injury.

              • February 13th 2018 @ 11:56am
                Fionn said | February 13th 2018 @ 11:56am | ! Report

                I’m not sure if either Lawes or Itoje will ever be great 6s, FunBus, but I guess time will tell.

              • February 13th 2018 @ 4:56pm
                cuw said | February 13th 2018 @ 4:56pm | ! Report

                I think Clifford is not a contender anymore , just like Teimana Harrison.

                unless of course there is a plethora of injuries and Eddie has to fall back to oldies.

                the latest news is that Sam Symonds is injured and out and Nathan Hughes is fit and in to the squad.

            • February 12th 2018 @ 7:42pm
              FunBus said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:42pm | ! Report

              There’s no issue with Billy V other than bad luck. His recent injury is a fractured arm. There’s no suggestion that there’s fundamental underlying problems.

              • Columnist

                February 12th 2018 @ 8:54pm
                Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:54pm | ! Report

                Yes FB. But gee, if there’s any bad luck around Billy V sure knows how to sniff it out!

              • February 12th 2018 @ 9:22pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 9:22pm | ! Report

                @ Geoff Parkes

                i think its the way he plays – he seeks contact and now everyone is ready for it.

                i think he is very like Sione Loaki – runs straight a the opponent and hopes to roll him over.

                last time he played NZ easily nullified his threat – they infact kicked to him and tackled him.

                will be interesting to see if BV has changed .

              • February 13th 2018 @ 11:17pm
                RugbyNovice said | February 13th 2018 @ 11:17pm | ! Report

                @ cuw

                That’s true, although the last time he played NZ was 2014 – think he’s improved a lot since then.

                Agree that the way he plays leads to him getting injured more, though.

      • February 12th 2018 @ 9:28am
        adastra32 said | February 12th 2018 @ 9:28am | ! Report

        What is always interesting is how little, from a NH perspective, that SH observers appear to just not get the tribal nature of the 6N. These games are not the RC. They are much more visceral. If Wales beat England, their year is complete as far as the fans (and the nation) are concerned. They can lose every other game, but they will have (perceptibly to them) been successful. Hansen might well feel comfortable…if he didn’t get it.

        • Columnist

          February 12th 2018 @ 10:56am
          Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:56am | ! Report

          You’re dead right adastra. While I guess it’s natural for people here to frame everything in terms of the AB’s or Wallabies, the game is so much bigger in the UK, and the Six Nations so entrenched, that almost nobody references this rugby in terms of the SH. It is what it is in its own right.

          It’s lucky for NZ that Hansen has been involved in it himself and so is under no false illusions. It’s also ironic that most kiwi fans would consider that the stream of NZ coaches going to the UK and France is for the benefit of their game, when the coaches themselves – to a man – would say that they are the ones to benefit, and NZ rugby by extension, on their return.

          • Roar Guru

            February 12th 2018 @ 11:53am
            Derm McCrum said | February 12th 2018 @ 11:53am | ! Report

            “ It’s also ironic that most kiwi fans would consider that the stream of NZ coaches going to the UK and France is for the benefit of their game, when the coaches themselves – to a man – would say that they are the ones to benefit, and NZ rugby by extension, on their return.“

            Say it ain’t so, Geoff. That’s verging on heresy in parts of this parish.

            • February 12th 2018 @ 1:03pm
              Lara said | February 12th 2018 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

              Great way to learn another system , inside knowledge for later on in one’s coaching career …..take Sir H and the big H ….used it well.

            • February 12th 2018 @ 1:06pm
              aussikiwi said | February 12th 2018 @ 1:06pm | ! Report

              I don’t know how either of you know what the coaches would say “to a man” but it seems to me there would be benefits both ways, they are not mutually exclusive alternatives. Presumably kiwi coaches are hired by NH clubs/nations because of what they bring to the table.

              • Columnist

                February 12th 2018 @ 1:16pm
                Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

                That’s true ak, and of course the clubs get a huge benefit. But I’ve spoken with many SH coaches and certainly all of them would say that they were the main beneficiary from the experience.

                Let’s call it a win/win 🙂

              • February 12th 2018 @ 2:51pm
                Taylorman said | February 12th 2018 @ 2:51pm | ! Report

                Yes it is a win win but let’s not forget why theyre going, at all. Because since professional rugby started they haven’t been able to manage the demands of either the quality nor quantity of players or coaches required.

                And you’d be kidding yourselves if you said NZ or Oz ave ‘benefitted more’ from the likes of having gats, Schmidt, cotter, Eddie Jones than the north have.thats just silly.

                And yes Hansen and Henry got some nice fuzzies from their northern experience but Henry was always going to be a success, and he learned much of losing his autocratic style here as he did in Wales because Tana was still pulling him up after he started.

                Hansen still required years of grooming…8 in fact, he wasn’t ready in 2007 and even in 2011 we took it as a leap of faith.

                So although the coaches might have ‘benefitted’ from their experience that is marginal compared to the benefits they provided the other country.

                They turned losses into wins there, they bring home nice fluffies from the tourist shops here.

                Yes it rounds them, but it doesn’t make them.

              • Roar Rookie

                February 12th 2018 @ 4:56pm
                piru said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:56pm | ! Report

                you guys have it all wrong, they said it to ‘a man’.

                The real question is which man did they say it to?….

      • February 12th 2018 @ 2:24pm
        Perthstayer said | February 12th 2018 @ 2:24pm | ! Report

        CP

        Wales were not good enough to have won. England made more tackles, ran fewer metres, made fewer turnovers and committed double the amount of penalties.

        If Williams had dived earlier he would have scored (May slid around 10 metres when he scored).

    • February 12th 2018 @ 7:26am
      Sherry said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:26am | ! Report

      Thanks for the rundown, Geoff. Expert as usual. These controversial tries usually don’t stay that way after viewing them at leisure on YouTube from different angles and in slowmo. Anscombe needed a few more inches on his reach – he didn’t ground the ball he nudged it forward, alas. England’s defence was first class. Underhill’s speed and technique in denying Williams should make the hilight reel. Good point you make re Jones tailoring a gameplan for a particular opponent on the day. We’ll see the difference when England plays Ireland. Be nice if, after that game, human eyes are smiling and feline grins have shrunk.

      • Columnist

        February 12th 2018 @ 7:53am
        Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:53am | ! Report

        Yes, you make a fair point about the Anscombe ‘try’ Sherry. Watching it I thought it was a try, but I could also see why the TMO denied it.

        Great to see the boys have got the Underhill tackle video up with this article. Jones must have been delighted to get a contribution like that from his bench.

        • February 12th 2018 @ 4:06pm
          cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:06pm | ! Report

          @ Geoff Parkes

          cannot agree with that assertion.

          listen to the ref. he says that GA did not touch the ball !!!

          as i said yesterday in another post – had he said that GA KOed the ball in the process of trying to ground it , i can live with that.

          but to say GA had no touch and only AW touched it down is pure lunacy. he seriosly needs an eye examination.

          else we need the rugger ball to be just like the T20 bails – that light up on touch !!! 😀

          • Columnist

            February 12th 2018 @ 4:18pm
            Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:18pm | ! Report

            I agree, Anscombe clearly made contact with the ball. Perhaps the TMO meant that he didn’t touch it with sufficient downwards pressure? Who knows?

            • February 12th 2018 @ 4:40pm
              cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:40pm | ! Report

              ok MR. GP

              now this is the thing i want to ask all the LAW experts.

              where are the terms “Downward pressure” in the Laws?

              it is not here : http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=8

              confusing the confused is no way to grow a game 😀

              • February 12th 2018 @ 6:44pm
                ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 6:44pm | ! Report

                Cuw go to law 21.

                It describes how the ball can be grounded to score a try.

                One way is to press down on it which implies downward pressure.

            • Roar Guru

              February 12th 2018 @ 4:56pm
              The Neutral View From Sweden said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:56pm | ! Report

              To me it looked like Anscombe’s hand hit the side of the ball and not the top of the ball.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 5:09pm
                Taylormam said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:09pm | ! Report

                It did, but you can score a try with downward pressure from the side of the ball provided it’s above the centre of the ball. Many tries are scored running in with one hand around the top placing the ball sideways. The shape allows for that.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 5:32pm
                Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:32pm | ! Report

                I don’t think there is a specific law about ‘downward pressure’ in try scoring. It seems to me to be that refs look more at factors like the nature of the body’s contact with the ball and the ground and the degree of control of the ball.

                Looked to me more like he knocked-on as there was no control. That law applies to the whole of the field of play, including the in-goal. Watson had clear control.

              • Roar Rookie

                February 12th 2018 @ 5:39pm
                piru said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:39pm | ! Report

                Downward pressure matters only if the ball is not in anyone’s possession.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:29pm
                ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:29pm | ! Report

                Why would the knock on law be relevant or anything else for that matter.

                He either pressed down on the ball to score a try or he didn’t.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:33pm
                Taylormam said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:33pm | ! Report

                And it wasn’t in anyone’s possession. There was definitely downward pressure as the ball went down as he touched it. It’s whether the hand ball and ground were all engaged at a point immediately as or after he touched it, and that looked the case to me, just.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:44pm
                Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:44pm | ! Report

                It’s relevant ClarkeG because I don’t think he pressed down on the ball. I think he was in contact with the ball – and from his perspective, it continued in a forward motion. That’s a knock-on mate.

                But like the try, the ref didn’t give that either – so we move on

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:58pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:58pm | ! Report

                @ Neil Back

                there lies the problem – coz we are arguing more about semantics than the outcome her in a rugger sense.

                The TMO never said anything of a knock forward ( and as i said above i can live with such a reasoning ).

                He said that GA did not touch the ball. listen again if u like. that only AW touched the ball. that was nucking futs !!!

                so we need a ball like the T20 bails – that light up to contact 😛

              • February 12th 2018 @ 8:03pm
                Taylormam said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:03pm | ! Report

                Nah, think you’ve talked yourself into that one Neil, as a lesser likely option.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 8:37pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:37pm | ! Report

                read this

                ” The anatomy behind the try that never was as Wales suffer at the hands of TMO in narrow England defeat ”

                http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5378919/The-anatomy-try-never-was.html

              • February 13th 2018 @ 9:16am
                ClarkeG said | February 13th 2018 @ 9:16am | ! Report

                Cuw that article confuses the situation as well.

                It talks of downward pressure being a grey area although those words are not in the law book and apparently the match officials talked of grounding which is in the law book.

                As long as I can remember the ball can be grounded by pressing it. That’s what the law says. Why that can be described as grey who knows… well some people apparently like to create greyness probably to explain away what actually happened.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 8:59pm
                Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:59pm | ! Report

                Well, the only thing for sure, and the only thing that matters Mr T, is that it wasn’t a try.

              • February 14th 2018 @ 8:30am
                aussikiwi said | February 14th 2018 @ 8:30am | ! Report

                “…the only thing that matters …is it wasn’t a try…..”

                Given that World Rugby has now stated that it was a try, I guess you might want to rephrase that.

                Maybe “the only thing that matters is that Wales were wrongly deprived of a try”.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 9:18pm
                ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 9:18pm | ! Report

                Neil mate my point is if you’ve already decided he didn’t press down on the ball then it’s no try.

                In that case there would be no need to consider anything else including whether he knocked it on or not.

                Why these simple questions (same with the forward pass ) have to be confused with fluff like you have just posted is puzzling to say the least.

                I mean …

                ” refs look more at factors like the nature of the body’s contact with the ball and the ground ” …what???

                ” That law applies to the whole of the field of play, including the in-goal.”…well thanks for stating the obvious but so what.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 9:39pm
                ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 9:39pm | ! Report

                Come March Eng denied try and 6N title in almost identical circumstances v Ire…let’s say.

                Its OK Neil. It wasn’t a try and that’s all that matters.

                Yeah sure.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 10:02pm
                Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:02pm | ! Report

                Clarkey, you’re tying yourself up in knots over nothing. It really comes down to two simple observations:

                Refs in the box and on the pitch seem to interchange the concept and application of ‘downward pressure’ and ‘control of the ball’ when awarding scores, depending on what they see and their subjective view of it – and the stated laws don’t seem to help much in getting rid of that subjectivity or those terms.

                Second, It looked more like a knock-on to me – which is different to saying ‘he didn’t press down on it’ – it adds he didn’t have control either. Which to my first point, may explain a subjective call from the TMO.

                Quite simple mate. You don’t have to agree and I apologise wholeheartedly if I offended your intelligence.

              • February 13th 2018 @ 10:49am
                ClarkeG said | February 13th 2018 @ 10:49am | ! Report

                Neiley it comes down to one simple observation which is my point…yet I’m the one tying the knots. Yepppp.

                Gee now you’re talking about referees interchanging concepts for heavens sake.

                It gets boring when you can’t address points specifically and revert to diversions and condescending remarks regards others intelligence.

                One more point. The relevant law is simple and self explanatory.

              • February 13th 2018 @ 11:54am
                Neil Back said | February 13th 2018 @ 11:54am | ! Report

                OK

                I – don’t – think – that – constituted – downward – pressure

                Feel addressed now?

              • February 13th 2018 @ 12:21pm
                ClarkeG said | February 13th 2018 @ 12:21pm | ! Report

                Gee I think you might have finally got the point… I think.?

                But you didn’t actually explain the relevance of the points you raised but I’m now way beyond the point of caring.

                Neil…it has been s blast. 🙂

              • February 13th 2018 @ 3:12pm
                Neil Back said | February 13th 2018 @ 3:12pm | ! Report

                Likewise. Let’s do it again sometime soon, particularly now that I know I can’t actually insult your intelligence.

              • February 13th 2018 @ 4:34pm
                ClarkeG said | February 13th 2018 @ 4:34pm | ! Report

                However Neil you will need to lift your game quite significantly you wee charmer.

                So you’re not going to (can’t) explain the points then. OK 🙂

              • February 13th 2018 @ 4:57pm
                cuw said | February 13th 2018 @ 4:57pm | ! Report

                @ The Neutral View From Sweden

                http://www.planetrugby.com/news/loose-pass-407/

                ” This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with four eyes and staying power…

                Video nasty…”

      • February 12th 2018 @ 12:32pm
        ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 12:32pm | ! Report

        Can’t agree with that Sherry. I have watched the incident several times at my leisure and again this morning after reading your post.

        Each time I see clear evidence of Anscombe grounding the ball, with the benefit of slow mo and even pause and frame advance admittedly, all tools available to a TMO.

        The theory that us humans can watch the same thing but come to quite different conclusions lives on.

        • February 12th 2018 @ 2:54pm
          moaman said | February 12th 2018 @ 2:54pm | ! Report

          ClarkeG “The theory that us humans can watch the same thing but come to quite different conclusions lives on.”

          I don’t think there is any doubt that is an actual fact mate.( And not of the ‘alternate’ variety either!).

          • February 12th 2018 @ 5:05pm
            ClarkeG said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:05pm | ! Report

            Yes I was being a little facetious.

            But being totally blunt. I don’t see how anyone watching that coverage with due care, as opposed to a quick glance, can come to the conclusion there was not a fair grounding of the ball for a try.

            • February 12th 2018 @ 8:04pm
              Taylormam said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:04pm | ! Report

              Yep, me too.

            • February 12th 2018 @ 8:17pm
              cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:17pm | ! Report

              @ ClarkeG

              irrespective of fair or not from a rugger sense, for the TMO to assert that GA did not touch the ball was insane.

              is he superman ??? to notsee something almost all thought they saw.

              for me., the whole issue with the decision is – if it is a try or not , butt that the TMO came out with an explanation everyone bar him and Eddie Jones believe to be fact!!!

    • February 12th 2018 @ 7:38am
      taylorman said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:38am | ! Report

      Yes I thought England were fortunate to win, but took their chances better. Wales threatened several times but got done by the poor TMO decsion- an obvious try to all but the poor sighted or minded, and were undone by the excellent tackle of Underhill who went under a player who had already started sliding in..pretty special tackle.

      Two other chances, one chipped out, one wasted by the blindside flankers own brilliant run and poor kick.

      Farrell made the difference in the end, turned up when others in the Welsh side didnt. MOTM(?) Brown is a clown as we all know..

      Can see why Jones would be happy, but Id say he’d be concerned as well. England didnt put up too many chances.

      • Columnist

        February 12th 2018 @ 7:59am
        Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:59am | ! Report

        Maybe England thought that taking more risks, creating chances, fracturing the game and potentially creating counter attacking opportunities might play more to Wales’ strength T-man? When they finally did break loose they were very dangerous.

        Whereas a pressure, territory game might suit themselves better, even if it potentially kept the score closer?

        • February 12th 2018 @ 10:31am
          taylorman said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:31am | ! Report

          Possibly, but remove Farrell and they were mediocre across the team, particularly the backs and loosies. Agree though, they did enough to do the job and it was the Welsh that took the risks and suffered.

          Both sides look injury plagued so no doubt these wont be the teams we’ll end up playing, many- I get about 10-12? to come in across both sides.

          Good match though, had some special moments- Mays first try, Underhills tackle, as Fionn says Launchberrys in poass to May etc. Anscomb even got around quite a bit.

          • Columnist

            February 12th 2018 @ 10:48am
            Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 10:48am | ! Report

            I’d say that was pretty close to England’s first choice team T-man.
            Halfback, No.8 but not too much else would be different.
            Wales certainly more disadvantaged by injury, but that’s really part and parcel of the game these days isn’t it?

            • February 12th 2018 @ 4:13pm
              cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:13pm | ! Report

              this may be as of now. But going forwards , there are other options comming into the scene.

              Vunipolla , Hartley , Cole ,

              Launchbury , Itoje ,

              Robshaw , Underhill , Vunipolla.

              Youngs , Ford ,

              May , Farrell , Teo , Watson ,

              Brown.

              Marler , George , Sinkler ,

              Kruis / Lawes ,

              Hughes / Haskell / Symmonds

              Care

              Tuilagi / JJ / Slade

              Daly / Nowell

            • February 12th 2018 @ 5:39pm
              Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:39pm | ! Report

              Not really Geoff. It’s not about the 15, it’s about the bench these days, and England’s is currently (when all available) just about the best in the world. Rarely does a side improve when the bench is emptied, but it often does in England’s case.

              • Roar Guru

                February 12th 2018 @ 6:17pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | February 12th 2018 @ 6:17pm | ! Report

                Rarely does a side improve when the bench is emptied, but it often does in England’s case.

                The All Blacks between 2014-16 used the bench to perfection and won many Tests due to the sheer quality of their bench players. They virtually changed the way all teams use their “finishers” nowadays.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:36pm
                Taylormam said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:36pm | ! Report

                Yes, that all stopped when the entire bench were sold overseas. I believe they were even told to take the bench with them.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:59pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:59pm | ! Report

                yes , now they also use the footy-style seating 😀

              • February 12th 2018 @ 9:07pm
                Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 9:07pm | ! Report

                Care to name that ‘entire’ overseas bench – and your starting 15?

              • February 13th 2018 @ 1:51am
                Taylorman said | February 13th 2018 @ 1:51am | ! Report

                Faumuina, Cruden, Kerr Barlow, Sapoaga have been almost permanent test bench members and have come on and improved the AB performance more than any other bench you can name. Picking at semantics will not see you in a good light Neil. But have a go anyway…ooh, that’s not a whole bench….ooh but the bench isn’t a real park bench.

                Go on, make your comments, and point out how many of Englands bench are playing here this year. The four are a better bench than England can dream of.

              • February 13th 2018 @ 6:15am
                Neil Back said | February 13th 2018 @ 6:15am | ! Report

                So you’re not going to then?

                OK

              • February 13th 2018 @ 4:59pm
                cuw said | February 13th 2018 @ 4:59pm | ! Report

                Victor Vito , Steven Luatua , Seta Tamanivalu ….

      • February 12th 2018 @ 3:32pm
        Ben said | February 12th 2018 @ 3:32pm | ! Report

        The non awarding of the try wouldve only affected the margin they lost by.
        They came away with 3 then went back to halfway for the kickoff.
        If the try was awarded and they got the conversion…back to halfway for the kickoff.
        So the dynamic would not have changed.
        They only got 3 more points after that.. 12-10.
        There was a lack of creativity by the welsh. It was almost league like..just running at the dee line all day then kick.
        Aaron Shingler at 6 was great imo. He looked the goods and outplayed any of the English loosies.
        I think Faletau and Warburton in the mix with Shingler wouldve made a big difference.

        • February 12th 2018 @ 4:16pm
          cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:16pm | ! Report

          the dynamic of the game would have certainly changed had a try been awarded.

          England in such a case would have attacked a lot more knowing one score means defeat – even by 1 point.

          • February 12th 2018 @ 5:14pm
            Ben said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:14pm | ! Report

            Well thats not true…when Wales got to within 6….one score….England didnt attack more.
            You dont seem to understand what the dynamic means.
            Nothing changed after the awarding of the penalty as opposed to the try.
            It still resulted in a kickoff at halfway thus not changing the dynamic.

            • February 12th 2018 @ 5:44pm
              Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 5:44pm | ! Report

              The truth is, with a Welsh try, particularly that early in the game, the dynamic of the game could have just as easily completely changed as stayed exactly the same, in the positive or the negative for either team. There is just no way of knowing.

              Far better to stay in the actual rather than the hypothetical.

              That’s also what’s on the final scoreboard.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 6:16pm
                Ben said | February 12th 2018 @ 6:16pm | ! Report

                Another one who doesnt understand…
                The dynamic did not change…both ways….penalty or try…resulted in a kick off from halfway…not a dropout …not a lineout..not a scrum…so nothing wouldve changed after either result.
                The penalty resulted in a kickoff from halfway.
                The awarding of a try wouldve resulted in a kickoff from halfway…thus not changing what happened immediatly after.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 6:44pm
                aussikiwi said | February 12th 2018 @ 6:44pm | ! Report

                But it would have been a different kick off at a different time and with more points on the board for Wales. You can’t possibly know that everything else would have played out in an identical manner. The probability of that happening is infinitesimally small.

              • February 12th 2018 @ 7:29pm
                Neil Back said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:29pm | ! Report

                The scoreboard would have changed. By more points. And it’s a try. Potentially has a far greater psychological effect – or not.

                You’re being too narrow in your definition of ‘dynamic’ and possible consequence.

                Please don’t be so arrogant.

              • February 13th 2018 @ 2:15pm
                Ben said | February 13th 2018 @ 2:15pm | ! Report

                Arrogant…pot……kettle…..

              • February 12th 2018 @ 8:10pm
                cuw said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:10pm | ! Report

                @ Neil Back

                ” narrow minded ”

                ” arrogant ”

                who invited TRUMP to the forum ? 😛

        • Columnist

          February 12th 2018 @ 4:20pm
          Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

          Good call on Shingler Ben, he was very good against Scotland too.

          • February 13th 2018 @ 5:02pm
            cuw said | February 13th 2018 @ 5:02pm | ! Report

            late bloomer it seems – the commentary said he is 30 .

            Shingler and Navidi only there becoz of injury to all of Warburton , Lydiate and Faletau .

    • Roar Guru

      February 12th 2018 @ 7:56am
      Machooka said | February 12th 2018 @ 7:56am | ! Report

      Morning G… thanks for a proper read like!

      Enjoyed the Welsh v Poms game and thought Wales unlucky at times… but England played the conditions and were deserved in their hard fought win.

      Not sold on the Tens… and like how tragic a comp if those Blues can manage a win!?! 🙂

      • Columnist

        February 12th 2018 @ 8:07am
        Geoff Parkes said | February 12th 2018 @ 8:07am | ! Report

        Morning Chookster,

        Yeah, not sure what the future is for Tens. It’s a bit like the old New Zealand medium pace bowler Bob Cunis… neither one thing or the other!

      • February 12th 2018 @ 1:32pm
        Rugby Tragic said | February 12th 2018 @ 1:32pm | ! Report

        Yeah well, just goes to show how good those Tahs are hey Bro? ??

        • Roar Guru

          February 12th 2018 @ 4:58pm
          Machooka said | February 12th 2018 @ 4:58pm | ! Report

          Bugger… were da Tahs playing?

          My bad 🙂

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