It’s time fantasy football started paying out Roar Guru

By, is a Roar Guru

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    Fantasy football – or, in our world, SuperCoach NRL – has morphed to focus on each and every game. It is an unexpected goldmine for rugby league that has attracted and developed a new breed of follower.

    The biggest fantasy league is SuperCoach (SC), and last season over 130,000 fans signed up to play.

    Kids, teenagers, mums, dads and even their parents are forced to watch every match to see how the players in the team they are ‘coaching’ are earning points.

    Surely there could be no more deserving winner than 2017 SuperCoach champion Sam Rohlf, who was diagnosed with bowel cancer three years ago and managed his team from three different hospitals. He took home a $50,000 prize.

    This is an amazing story, and it’s staggering how Sam was able to focus for 26 weeks, making some brilliant close calls. No doubt the excitement of SC and having to pull out all stops to ward of thousands of other players helped him get through such a challenging time in his life.

    The prize may seem plentiful, and it was able to fund a trip to New York for Sam, his wife and three kids, but the SuperCoach revenue numbers are huge and Sam’s cheque should have been multiplied by 10 or even 20.

    (Cameron Spencer/Getty Images)

    You don’t have to be a genius to work out the huge amount of money that SC creates for its owners.

    The NRL needs to be attacking the rank and file fans and the battlers. SC gives them a reason to watch every match instead of just their favourite team, but to be competitive in SC you must be able to watch every game and have ready access to social media and the extra stats and analysis tools. Many fans simply cannot afford Foxtel or a News Corp subscription to keep up to date with late changes.

    The NRL have NRL Fantasy. Yes, they are both fun and attract an audience, but the SuperCoach players who can afford the gold stats packages and Foxtel are like the privileged NRL teams who have third-party agreements over the poorer or more remote clubs.

    The huge array of digital adverts that we are forced to endure every time we log in to SC surely would be sufficient to fund exposure to statistical figures for every fan. Somehow it seems counterproductive not to encourage and enhance interest by giving the fans more information.

    Every fan log-in creates revenue, and for 130,000-plus fans just to buy the paper each day during the season adds up to a big payday for the NRL and News Corp, and if you add the other variables, like stats packages, then you really do need a maths degree to work out the profits.

    It is difficult to know how many fans play fantasy football for fun or whether they just want to win first prize regardless of the amount, but why do you think corporate bookie Matthew Tripp offered $1 million in his tipping competition in 2011? The 100,000 members who played more than covered the prize.

    The NRL and News Corp are at risk of losing their monopoly if they continue to squeeze the lemon too hard and offer embarrassingly low prize money.

    The New South Wales State of Origin team for the 2018 series remains a mystery, with new coach Brad Fittler facing plenty of selection headaches. So we want you to tell us - and all your mates - who should start for Blues in Game 1 with our team picker.

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    The Crowd Says (59)

    • Roar Guru

      February 15th 2018 @ 8:29am
      The Barry said | February 15th 2018 @ 8:29am | ! Report

      Good call Scott.

      The SC gold package costs about $20 for the season. I have no idea how many players purchase it but everyone in the regular head to head and draft leagues that I play in does. It only takes 2,500 players to purchase the gold package to cover the 50k prize money and I’ll bet London to a brick there’s heaps more than that…like 10-20 times that number.

      Then there’s the subscription fee to the Telegraph if you want to unlock SC articles, which I think is about $20 a month. I don’t bother with that.

      So the Tele must be raking in some handy coin from SC.

      Like a lot of people the comps I’m in have a $50 entry fee and prizes for winners.

      Out of interest how effectively are you able to apply your ratings and analytics to SC Scott? What’s your track record like?

      • Roar Guru

        February 15th 2018 @ 8:46am said | February 15th 2018 @ 8:46am | ! Report

        Hi Baz,
        You have not even touched on the Digital adverts and the cost just to log in and read the actual digital paper.

        It is exciting for the game that Fantasy footy has attracted this new blood and it would be even better if they could attract even more by making things more affordable for everyone.

        Baz, I have never played SC simply because I devote so much time to my real job, but I am considering having a crack this year. My challenge is to match my weightings with SCs; they certainly rate some stats higher than I do but it is what it is and adjustments can be made.

        The SC community seem a great bunch of guys who live and breath what they do.

        I am certain the NRL do not realise the goldmine that Fantasy could be for them if they marketed it correctly. They should give Matt Tripp a call.

        • Roar Guru

          February 15th 2018 @ 8:46am
 said | February 15th 2018 @ 8:46am | ! Report

          Who is your captain and Vice captain?

          • Roar Guru

            February 15th 2018 @ 11:03am
            The Barry said | February 15th 2018 @ 11:03am | ! Report

            Too early to tell Scott.

            I’ve picked a squad but it’s very conditional on players being picked for round one. Eg ive got Taane Milne in my squad but who knows if he’ll play backrow, centres, off the bench or not even in the 17.

            I tend to pick a consistent solid scorer as captain. Someone like Smith, Gallen, Mannering pick up 60-70 points every week with the odd higher score. Money in the bank.

            Players like Rapana will score 130 one week but then back up with a couple of 30-odd scores.

            I’ve been burnt before trying to select a captain based on their opposition. Eg Tedesco’s playing the Knights this week, he should be up for a monster. Next thing you know, he’s concussed after three minutes and scored four points.

            I’d recommend giving it a crack. It adds an extra dimension to the season and really does generate some personal interest in fixtures that might ordinarily be a bit ho hum.

            In terms of stats there are also some excellent websites that present SC stats.

            It would be really interesting (for me anyway) to get an insight at the end of the season into how your ratings compared to SC weighting – without giving away any trade secrets or IP of course…

            • Roar Guru

              February 15th 2018 @ 1:04pm
     said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:04pm | ! Report

              Smith, Gallen and Mannering probably cannot go any better than last year and are priced accordingly, I would be looking for players with upside who are under priced.

              • Roar Guru

                February 15th 2018 @ 3:29pm
                The Barry said | February 15th 2018 @ 3:29pm | ! Report

                Haha…every year there are teams of articles predicting the decline of these guys and every year they aim up.

                Smith is regularly 15 points better than the second best hooker. He’s as close to a must have as you get.

                Gallen and Mannering regularly pump out 70+ averages. Manners went berserk in the latter half of last year.

                I don’t think I’ll get all three in, but I’ll likely have 2/3.

                The trick is finding the rookies that are a) going to start and b) score well so they increase in price.

                Guns n Cows… ? n ?

              • February 16th 2018 @ 11:43am
                Albo said | February 16th 2018 @ 11:43am | ! Report

                That’s the idea Scott ! But easier said than done. I jumped into SC three years ago, and I am still trying to learn the best strategies to play the game well. Whilst I have improved each year, I have a long way to go to get near some of the top scorers. I love the concept and as such it means you watch every game every round very closely, and to give yourself every chance you need to spend plenty of time mid week keeping your ear to the ground about possible injuries or sneaky ins or outs of advertised teams. You can easily get caught out if you don’t check the actual teams to take the field that are only finalised one hour before kick off. And you need to forecast ahead for likely player changes around Origin times. And as Baz mentions you need a fair bit of luck throughout the year especially if you nominate some likely types at good prices early on who might not even get a run or get limited game time. And you need to be aware of the player point scoring mechanism to balance your team within the pricing constraints of the cap. There’s a lot to it, but for the footy lover that can afford the time, I highly recommend giving it a go. Just on the captain & vice captain selections, you can change these weekly, but most will anchor a consistent high point scoring type in general, where guys like Cam Smith & Simon Mannering fit the bill , being 80 minute players with plenty of ball touches & tackles. But as they are consistently high scorers they are also then priced accordingly. My regulars here would likely be Cam Smith , Jake Friend , & Nathan Cleary.

      • February 15th 2018 @ 11:02am
        Mushi said | February 15th 2018 @ 11:02am | ! Report

        Yep they’re probably pulling in a decent return but are we really attacking a traditional media outlet for super profits?

        The other way to look at it. Try running your own comp without their infrastructure? How much would you pay to have some one do it for you?

        If the SC gold is so prevalent then clearly people see value in it so it seems fairly priced.

        Scott’s argument only really holds water if google start sending me a cheque for every search I do.

        • Roar Guru

          February 15th 2018 @ 12:59pm
          The Barry said | February 15th 2018 @ 12:59pm | ! Report

          Fair points Mushi…don’t get me wrong I’m not attacking the Tele.

          Im not saying SC gold isn’t fairly priced – I wouldn’t think about entering a season without it. And SC itself can be played for free.

          It is a tiny % of revenue that goes back in prizes. There’s one 50k prize and 999 key rings that to my understanding haven’t been delivered yet. News flash: SC player wants an increase in SC prize money.

          But your points are well made…I’d play if there were zero prizes so there’s not really much imperative for them to increase the prize money.

          • Roar Guru

            February 15th 2018 @ 1:32pm
   said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:32pm | ! Report

            Baz, Mushi,
            I will give you 2 reason why they should increase the prizes:
            1. They can more than justified it with the monumental profits they make from the multiple revenue streams
            2. If they dont, someone will produce a fantasy game that will blow them out of the water with multi million dollar prizes.
            Monopolies are great if you don’t have any opposition. Remember the TAB before corporates?

            • February 16th 2018 @ 6:50am
              mushi said | February 16th 2018 @ 6:50am | ! Report

              On your first point we are going to need to agree to disagree on the Telegraph making monumental profits. Does that aspect turn a profit, yes which is kind of the point of a business, but I think we’re vastly over estimating the value of on line advertising if we’re labelling it monumental.

              Your second point doesn’t really make sense.

              You’re making an, in my view an incredibly ill founded, assumption that the reason people play is based on the end prize money. I think if you randomly polled people in the street most participants wouldn’t be able to tell you the exact details of the prize pool.

              I’ve played online fantasy sports sine 1997 in the US and I can’t recall a prize pool led strategy to get my “business” that’s the elephant in the room with your analysis. You could actually look at how developed fantasy sports markets have behaved over a 20-30 period and draw conclusions form that or take a single tipping comp example from almost a decade ago.

              You do have DFS which targets the “money angle” but both of daily and traditional fantasy seem to be coexisting really well as completely different product offering. Traditional fantasy tends to be led by three things scale, content and user interface.

              And that’s reasonably obvious right? There exist so many other avenues to make better probability weighted attempts to earn money that surely that can’t be the motivation behind fantasy. If you are arguing that it is you’re also arguing that the NRL fantasy market is completely irrational and there for increasing the prize pool is unlikely to do anything.

              Then you’ve got your “Monopolies are great if you don’t have opposition” Well yeah… a monopoly can’t actually exist if there is competition.

              That aside, I think even an intellectually disabled badger can see that a prize pool is a terrible barrier to entry. Literally anyone can replicate a prize pool if they have cash, typically with barriers to entry you say “how much would it cost for a new entrant to replicate it” in you’re stunning example it is the exact same amount. There literally no inherent incumbent advantage to prize pool unless the bank starts giving me extra value for dollars sourced from telegraph dollars.

              So if your argument is that end prize money is the main driver of success (rather than the critical mass angle like so many other social/interactive media platforms) the telegraph is already screwed. Gambling companies can outspend it and smaller operations can offer limited player pools to give you a better probability weighted return.

              “If” you are right and the end purchasing decision will be driven by prize pool (and the amrket suddenly becomes rational as well) then the best bet for tele (the NRL should actually be supporting a broader platform as it would create price tension for endorsement and broaden the marketing for their product) then the actual best decision for the Telegraph is to stop investing in supercoach and try to sell the platform.

              • February 16th 2018 @ 7:05am
                mushi said | February 16th 2018 @ 7:05am | ! Report

                Apologies for some of the disjointed paragraphs. I had to stop for a bit and come back to it I was that astounded by the reasoning of Scott’s original post

              • February 16th 2018 @ 7:43am
                BA Sports said | February 16th 2018 @ 7:43am | ! Report

                Plus 1 to all of this.

                Like Mushi, I have played Fantasy Sports in the US for well over a decade playing in multiple leagues in both the NFL and MLB every season – many of those leagues I have played in for multiple years – with my Dynasty League team (3 time champion 🙂 ) i have had for 9 years. I have never paid a cent or won a cent – I play because it is fun – fun way to make friends, fun way to play against friends, and a fun angle for enjoying the games.

                People who want money will (in the majority) play the daily leagues (or weekly I guess in the case of the NRL) – Win your money there and now – not have to wait six months to collect.

              • Roar Guru

                February 16th 2018 @ 9:15am
       said | February 16th 2018 @ 9:15am | ! Report

                You contributed more than one “disjointed paragraph”, but on this forum, that is your right and I always welcome your input.
                Allow me to clarify……
                I do think the prize pool is paltry – yes! But I did not call for an increase and it is not an incentive for me.
                What I would like is for everyone, especially the battlers, to have equal chance of winning and while ever participants need to fork out for stats, tools, podcasts and subscriptions either newspapers in hard copy or digital as well as a Foxtel licence it will not be a level playing field.
                The game should be encouraging these fringe players to sign up and stay interested each and every week.

              • February 16th 2018 @ 10:00am
                mushi said | February 16th 2018 @ 10:00am | ! Report

                Thanks for giving me permission to post multiple paragraphs Scott. Much appreciated.

                “I do think the prize pool is paltry – yes! But I did not call for an increase and it is not an incentive for me.”

                “Sam’s cheque should have been multiplied by 10 or even 20.” Scott Woodward

                “The NRL and News Corp are at risk of losing their monopoly if they continue to squeeze the lemon too hard and offer embarrassingly low prize money” Scott Woodward

                I’ll let the title slide, as I don’t know what you submitted to the roar, but those two statements suggest you’re being a little free and loose with the truth there.

                “What I would like is for everyone, especially the battlers, to have equal chance of winning and while ever participants need to fork out for stats, tools, podcasts and subscriptions either newspapers in hard copy or digital as well as a Foxtel licence it will not be a level playing field.
                The game should be encouraging these fringe players to sign up and stay interested each and every week.”

                Great do we want to tackle peace in the Middle East tomorrow if we’ve got spare time?

                To achieve what you are asking we would need to ban any communication on rugby league that requires payment. So for starters we need to renege on the pay TV deal.

                Then you’d also need to somehow limit how much time every individual could spend watching or reading about rugby league. Not sure how we do this with out some kind of 1980’s soviet style intrusion but hey.

                If I look around society am I really struck with the epiphany of hey you know what the government should intrusively regulate rugby league media like no other industry to ensure free access with no advantage for friendly online fantasy sports.

                I’d think the gambling industry would be better first port of call if you genuinely cared about the battler

                Also this “battler” rtehtoric is at complete odds with a strategy focused on the 1 winner in 130,000 participants. You can’t logically run a what about the fringe participant line and focus your engagement strategy on the winner.

                But the big question is… why

                People are enjoying fantasy sports all around the globe under this model. The vast majority are actually more competing against mates or in groups, winning for the vast majority of individuals is tied to that small competition . There would be tens of millions of teams in leagues around the world with 0 prize money offered by the web site.

                Are all those people doing it wrong?

                Most are competing in leagues that match their level of investment in time and information, which are incredibly easy to find.

                There are a litany of paid access sites that will provide analysis on every major fantasy sport.

                If people are finding value in SC gold, which obviously they are, why deny the producer the basic rights available in our society to monetise that value creation.

        • Roar Guru

          February 15th 2018 @ 1:07pm
 said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:07pm | ! Report

          I would be more than happy to run 2nd to someone like Sam Rohlf, we need more people like him playing and winning prizes.

          • February 16th 2018 @ 7:09am
            mushi said | February 16th 2018 @ 7:09am | ! Report

            That’s great, I I don’t think anyone is begrudging Sam being looked after but do we really think the best way to implement social policy is via increased prize money in super coach. Because that seems to be your argument here.

            Call me crazy, but I was thinking that policies around the financial safety net for sufferers of terminal conditions would probably be better delivered by state and federal government, I’m not really seeing the basis for improving people’s lives via an increase in the super coach prize pool.

            I was also unaware that only those true of virtue would be gifted the super coach crown.

            • Roar Guru

              February 16th 2018 @ 9:17am
     said | February 16th 2018 @ 9:17am | ! Report

              As you have called yourself “crazy”, I wont bother.

    • February 15th 2018 @ 9:48am
      peeko said | February 15th 2018 @ 9:48am | ! Report

      well said Scott. I love fantasy and it increases my watching of games immensely. I have only ever played draft styles comps and dont understand the attraction of comps where everyone tries to pick the same players.

      • February 15th 2018 @ 10:16am
        BA Sports said | February 15th 2018 @ 10:16am | ! Report

        I am with you peeko; I have played fantasy baseball and NFL for over a decade – great fun. So when the NRL and AFL rolled out their versions and people could have the same players, it made no sense to me, so i bailed on it pretty early.

        I see now they have finally started to bring in draft leagues so i am contemplating giving it another go.

        If they bring out a dynasty league where you can draft lower grade players to sit outside your top 25, I am all in…

        • February 15th 2018 @ 12:24pm
          peeeko said | February 15th 2018 @ 12:24pm | ! Report

          just make sure you get a league where everyone gives it a go.

      • Roar Guru

        February 15th 2018 @ 1:15pm said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:15pm | ! Report

        It is no different to recruiting for an NRL team; you try and find players cheap who will develop into guns. Most people I talk to seem to pick players who killed it last season which I find fascinating.

        • February 15th 2018 @ 4:54pm
          peeko said | February 15th 2018 @ 4:54pm | ! Report

          still, a draft means its more like a real comp because you cant all have cameron smith

          • Roar Guru

            February 15th 2018 @ 5:17pm
   said | February 15th 2018 @ 5:17pm | ! Report

            48% of people have Cam Smith and he costs $667,400. That is poor value for mine based on what he did last year when he won everything.
            He has gone up from $525,800 to $667,400 and cannot possibly go any better.

            • February 16th 2018 @ 7:23am
              mushi said | February 16th 2018 @ 7:23am | ! Report

              But you’ve got to factor in:
              – You don’t have unlimited transactions so need to target some players as “buy and hold” rather than “trading” otherwise you end up with 25 up and comers and no elite producers. So you need some Warren Buffet to offset your Hedge Fund
              – two players production is multiplied so the two most expensive guys on your roster are actually cheap
              – non-player roster spots are dead money during games so players that will always be on the “field” actually have more inherent value to your team
              – The aim isn’t for outright production/value but above fair value replacement production late in the season

            • February 16th 2018 @ 7:24am
              BA Sports said | February 16th 2018 @ 7:24am | ! Report

              The fact that 48% of people have him is what ruins it for me. There is 1 Cameron Smith, so only 1 person per league should have him

              • February 16th 2018 @ 8:18am
                mushi said | February 16th 2018 @ 8:18am | ! Report

                To be fair US fantasy kind of went through this cycle as well. I think the most popular competitions on ESPN around the turn of the millennium were the big group salary cap ones (with no prize money but that’s probably why ESPN has no one playing fantasy now.. oh wait).

                People had always done the draft ones (mainly manually) but it seemed the “value” based cap leagues were the gate way to what we have now on line.

              • Roar Guru

                February 17th 2018 @ 12:30pm
       said | February 17th 2018 @ 12:30pm | ! Report

                And lucky it is the Storm

            • Roar Guru

              February 16th 2018 @ 10:00am
              The Barry said | February 16th 2018 @ 10:00am | ! Report

              Scott – Smiths value has increased because the salary cap has increased and players have gone up accordingly.

              Smith averaged 75 last season which puts him in the elite category and does it regularly. More importantly he’s regularly 15 points better than the next best in his position.

              He gets defensive stats, he gets attacking stats, he kicks goals and he plays 80 minutes.

              He’s the set and forget king and only needs to be traded if he gets injured. Which historically he doesn’t.

              I get that you need to find players to make money. But more importantly you need to score points.

              • Roar Guru

                February 17th 2018 @ 12:33pm
       said | February 17th 2018 @ 12:33pm | ! Report

                I take your point mate. I just think he had a 10/10 season and he has no upside.
                Note that last years winner did not buy him for round 1.

              • Roar Guru

                February 17th 2018 @ 1:02pm
                The Barry said | February 17th 2018 @ 1:02pm | ! Report

                I guess it’s valid to wait a few weeks and see if his price goes down and you can get him cheaper. Prices don’t change until round 3 though.

                There’s also two or three fewer trades this season than previously and I’d rather use them elsewhere.

                The last few seasons have shown that you’re basically sacrificing 15 points every week not having Smith in your team.

      • Roar Guru

        February 16th 2018 @ 9:26am said | February 16th 2018 @ 9:26am | ! Report

        Not only do more people watch, but they watch every pass and tackle.

    • Roar Guru

      February 15th 2018 @ 11:19am
      Paul D said | February 15th 2018 @ 11:19am | ! Report

      I used to do the Sportsbet AFL fantasy comp with a workmate a few years ago, mainly to try and win a free bet each week, best I ever got was 79th out of about 8000 players in 2014 & one free bet for $25 that i turned into $360, and I spent probably 1-2 hours each week doing research.

      I don’t even want to know how much time would need to be invested to go top 10 in the big show.

      That being said, don’t go down the path of demanding changes to suit your supercoach addiction – I remember someone writing an article here saying that late changes to the 22 should be banned because it ruins supercoach and he got pelted with tomatoes all the way to the exits

      • Roar Guru

        February 15th 2018 @ 1:17pm said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:17pm | ! Report

        I am happy with things and lucky to have the tools at my disposal but it would be better if more mums and dads could play and be competitive. It is a real opportunity for a new demographic.

    • February 15th 2018 @ 11:47am
      Kris said | February 15th 2018 @ 11:47am | ! Report

      You are not factoring in that these are licenced products for which the newspapers have to pay. The leagues own their stats/data/fixtures.

      • February 15th 2018 @ 12:25pm
        peeeko said | February 15th 2018 @ 12:25pm | ! Report

        i think Fox keep their own stats which they share with other news companies?

        • February 15th 2018 @ 12:45pm
          Kris said | February 15th 2018 @ 12:45pm | ! Report

          Not in the AFL. They buy them off Champion Data who are owned by the AFL.

          • Roar Guru

            February 15th 2018 @ 12:49pm
            Paul D said | February 15th 2018 @ 12:49pm | ! Report

            Not sure if Champion is wholly owned, I seem to remember talk of a 49% stake (I suppose majority shareholding might as well be ownership though).

            Certainly it was enough for the AFL to crush their longtime local partner Catapult Data in 2015 and essentially award the contract to themselves.

            • Roar Guru

              February 15th 2018 @ 1:22pm
     said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:22pm | ! Report

              Very astute of the AFL to own their own Stats just like they have with their own ground. Take note NRL.

          • Roar Guru

            February 15th 2018 @ 1:21pm
   said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:21pm | ! Report

            Yep, Champion were also used for Sportsbet at the time I believe for NRL.

      • Roar Guru

        February 15th 2018 @ 1:19pm said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:19pm | ! Report

        Thanks mate, yes I have factored that in. Fox and the NRL use different stats.

        • February 16th 2018 @ 12:27pm
          Kris said | February 16th 2018 @ 12:27pm | ! Report

          Which means a cost. Even 2 people per game x $100 x 201 games = $40,000. In truth allowing for overheads you won’t get much change from $200,000 minimum.

    • Roar Pro

      February 15th 2018 @ 1:21pm
      Chris Charlton said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:21pm | ! Report

      Anyone got any funny, rugby-league inspired team names? Asking for a friend. I’ve used Guns n Moses and Scorgasm FC before, looking for inspiration…. for my friend

      • Roar Guru

        February 15th 2018 @ 1:27pm said | February 15th 2018 @ 1:27pm | ! Report

        You may have just produced a new nick name for Corey Norman – “Guns”

    • Roar Guru

      February 15th 2018 @ 2:34pm
      Nat said | February 15th 2018 @ 2:34pm | ! Report

      Hi Fellas. How much time does it take for you to do this each week? I got involved with one a few years back but found it too time consuming and very hard to catch if missed just one time. Has it been simplified in the last few years? Better access to info, as you’ve discussed, maybe?

      • Roar Guru

        February 15th 2018 @ 3:37pm
        The Barry said | February 15th 2018 @ 3:37pm | ! Report

        I have an hour or so commute to and from work so most of my research is done there.

        And by research I mean reading articles on my phone which I’m doing anyway.

        I probably spend a few hours a week but I think it’s how long is a piece of string.

        Most challenging part for me is keeping an eye on final team lists an hour before kick off when I’m busy and adjusting my team accordingly.

        • Roar Guru

          February 15th 2018 @ 4:28pm
 said | February 15th 2018 @ 4:28pm | ! Report

          Again underlines the extraordinary effort by last years winner Sam Rohlf.

          • Roar Guru

            February 16th 2018 @ 9:32pm
            The Barry said | February 16th 2018 @ 9:32pm | ! Report

            Yeah…but as he said himself, he had a fair bit of time on his hands

      • Roar Guru

        February 15th 2018 @ 4:26pm said | February 15th 2018 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

        I do the work anyway so it is no extra, but you are correct that the attrition rate would be huge as the season progresses with info hard to come by.
        It has to be a simply design for the rank and file otherwise they will drop out.

        • Roar Guru

          February 15th 2018 @ 5:01pm
          Nat said | February 15th 2018 @ 5:01pm | ! Report

          Thanks. Sounds like not much has changed. I’ll have to maintain my efforts as an average tipster.

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