Folau has broken the 12th commandment

Rugby Tragic Too Roar Guru

By Rugby Tragic Too, Rugby Tragic Too is a Roar Guru

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    So Israel Folau believes he is entitled to spread the word of his religious beliefs.

    How dare he do this.

    If the 11th commandment is ‘thou shalt not get caught’, than the 12th commandment is ‘thou shalt not express religious view-points that happen to contradict popular public opinion’.

    Doesn’t he realise that he should only pretend to be living in a free society.

    Middle class Australia will not forgive such an act. Middle class Australia is of course a place where you can have any opinion, so long as it is the opinion that we all agree you should have.

    The thing is it isn’t really his opinion in the first place. If you read the old-testament it says some pretty heavy stuff when it comes to sexuality. Some of which I am now too scared to mention.

    For if I mention what is actually in the book of Leviticus, am I to be vilified? I myself don’t agree with the teachings but I don’t think that will be remembered.

    Now I hate to be that person. You know the one that has sat quietly at the dinner party listening to a bunch of self-righteous ‘you know whats’ before blurting out the unpopular view-point to balance the discussion.

    I am that person now when I point out that being a devout traditional Christian, (or presumably any other major religion), would only leave you with one opinion on the matter.

    Israel Folau has simply answered a question relating to traditional religious beliefs. If we are condemning him than we are condemning every single person that practices traditional religious beliefs. This is very difficult territory.

    Frankly, he is entitled to express this view point because it is what he is fundamentally free to do. He is free to promote his religion in the same way that Hindus are free to spread the word that Ganesha, an elephant headed god, protects you from obstacles. It doesn’t matter how far fetched the belief is because who are we to judge it?

    If it is taught in a place of worship than you are entitled to shout that from a mountain-top, or a computer keyboard, no matter how grotesque or inconvenient the view point may seem. These teachings have, after all, been around for literally millennia. Millenials on the other hand seem to think this is irrelevant.

    Israel Folau

    (Photo by Mark Nolan/Getty Images)

    We don’t have to agree with such traditional beliefs but we can’t cry foul when someone points them out. As responsible citizens we should be protecting Folau’s right to express his traditional religious view points regardless of whether we agree with him or not.

    Now, let’s not confuse political and religious beliefs. They are not one and the same.

    In this case Folau has obviously related this view-point to the teachings of his religion. We can-not and should not question that. The Rugby AU as his employer needs to back off. It’s none of their business. In the same way none of us should have to answer to our employers about our spirituality.

    We are all free to believe that an imaginary man in the sky is overseeing everything in the universe. We are free to believe that an old book is the word of god. I am sure we all agree that we should be free to do so right?

    Well that book says pretty much exactly what Folau has expressed. So to question Folau’s right to say what he said, but at the same time believing everyone should have religious freedom, is plain and simple hypocrisy.

    May I remind you that you are also free not to believe any of it.

    But you are not free to choose which religious beliefs are acceptable. Not yet anyway.

    Until we have rid the world with what I am free to suggest is utter nonsense, i.e. religion, we must accept others rights to believe it, and to preach it from any platform they wish.

    Israel Folau is free to let the world know that he believes anything that he grasps from his religion and we have no right to question this belief nor his right to express it.

    That is freedom people. Specifically religious freedom. It is a fundamental right.

    Now back to your dinner parties and your hypocritical ideologies.

    Pass the Dom Perignon somebody, I wish to now move on and discuss the inequitable distribution of wealth.

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    The Crowd Says (438)

    • April 8th 2018 @ 3:58am
      farqueue said | April 8th 2018 @ 3:58am | ! Report

      The author is damn right.
      The scarier thing is it’s 2018 and we all generally agree that you can’t really believe everything you hear on tv or read on internet….but base your life’s beliefs and practices on something written by who knows about some magical character that looks after us all….but still allows really bad stuff because once you are dead you will go to a fantastic place where things will be really good again…. sounds legit… where do I sign.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 5:05am
        Zane said | April 8th 2018 @ 5:05am | ! Report

        Eleventh Commandment? And, even, a 12th? Just trying to get a new angle are you? Zzzzzzzzz
        Go back to sleep and write something worth reading.
        This topic has been beaten to death already

        • April 8th 2018 @ 5:46am
          Ben said | April 8th 2018 @ 5:46am | ! Report

          Yet you still bothered not only to read the article but post a comment……

          • April 9th 2018 @ 1:34pm
            Zane said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:34pm | ! Report

            How do you know I read the article Ben? One only merely has to glance at the headline to work out what its about!

        • Roar Guru

          April 8th 2018 @ 9:14am
          Jokerman said | April 8th 2018 @ 9:14am | ! Report

          Tragic too. It’s a subject that is deemed, in my eyes, as not worthy of comment. I say that meaning it’s blatantly unacceptable so why even bother expressing a view when any open minded, evolved person can see that it’s not worthy of debate – it’s just wrong, and it embarrasses Australian Rugby.

          Clearly Folau has made an error here. He has made comments that are distasteful and had he made these words in a employment set-up, Folau or his company would be in a bit of trouble.

          Some religions can be anti-women’s rights; if there are bigoties contained it doesn’t give someone the right to express.

          Folau is expressing discrimination based on sexuality.

          If an All Black came out and did this I’d be mortified, and so I have empathy for the Australian’s that feel let down and embarrassed by this.

          The debate is not about whether this is right or wrong the (the answer is so clear). It’s going to be how the Australian rugby team and their sponsors handle this. They’ve been embarrassed, and let down by one of their most marketable players.

          The values of David Pocock is where the paradigm has to shift to.

          Choose peace, love and accept. Don’t judge. Simple stuff really.

          Namaste

          • April 8th 2018 @ 9:25am
            Ben said | April 8th 2018 @ 9:25am | ! Report

            “Folau is expressing discrimination based on sexuality”

            How is Falau discriminating here? If you don’t like it… move on!

          • April 8th 2018 @ 9:25am
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 9:25am | ! Report

            Jokerman

            So freedom of speech is not okay? freedom of religion… not okay?

            Folau answered a question based on his religious beliefs. we don’t have to agree with it but we can not pick and choose which religious beliefs are accpetable. he has broken no law. He has not discriminated. he has not even stated it is his opinion. he was asked what did he think was Gods opinion. he answered that.

            as for your beloved All Blacks… when Julian Savea was arrested for domestic violence did that warrant any mortification on your part or embrrassment? Did Aaron Smiths behaviour in a public toilet, or Jerome Kaino’s infidelity warrant any such social hyperbole on your part?

            pass the Dom Perignon somebody, i’m in the mood for more middle class hypocrisy…. 🙁

            • April 8th 2018 @ 9:47am
              Taylorman said | April 8th 2018 @ 9:47am | ! Report

              Well yeah, in those two instances they were both given what they deserved, dame here, so dont get your point.

              The biggest and most important impact here is what the statement as a high profile and admired rugby player has on the vulnerability of young or not so young people, or rugby players.

              I dont know but Id suggest it is a very scary world out there for those players who are right at this minute struggling with the acceptance in this game as a gay person and player.

              This is more important than those preaching is right to comment, some evrn trying to distance the man behind the words from the book itself.

              And for those supporting Folau with that right, you maybe right, but you have also ‘likely’ ( you or I dont know whether that is the case) made it that much more difficult for those currently out there now to manage their position more easily.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 10:01am
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:01am | ! Report

                Israel Folau is not responsible for the teachings of a church. He is not responsible for the mental health of young people. Who are more than there sexuality.

                Had folau come out and said something like, ‘gay people should not play rugby’ than you’d have a point but last time i checked Israel Folau has actively campaigned against homophobia in his sport of rugby union. In 2014 he was an ambassador for the Bingham Cup which is an international gay Rugby union tournament.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 11:00am
                Ben said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:00am | ! Report

                Rugby Tragic Too goes BANG!

              • April 8th 2018 @ 2:02pm
                Taylorman said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:02pm | ! Report

                True, but he is responsible for what he said, and what came across was when certain people meet the right conditions, they go to hell. Gays, that dont ‘repent’ go to hell. His words, not the chirch’s.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 2:28pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:28pm | ! Report

                taylorman his church has been saying this for almost 2 thousand years

            • Roar Guru

              April 8th 2018 @ 10:02am
              Jokerman said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:02am | ! Report

              Oh Tragic what in life made you so cynical !? And a homophobe? Laughable stuff.

              People will make mistakes, and I never judge anyone but you and Folau do. I always say unless you’re perfect, don’t judge anyone.

              Aaron Smith’s only indiscretion was against his partner. Only his business really.

              The All Blacks are pretty cool eh? This is just something that wouldn’t happen to them.

              Luckily the Wallabies don’t have your mindset, Tragic.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 10:08am
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:08am | ! Report

                who’s a homophobe? for all you know i am as gay and as proud as they come?

                and julian savea? you fail to mention him.

                were you mortified and embarassed by his arrest and charge for domestic violence?

              • Roar Guru

                April 8th 2018 @ 10:31am
                Jokerman said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:31am | ! Report

                You’re iether a homophobe or in the closet ! Tell us which one ?

                A proud closet…?!

                Laughable stuff. Poor old (the real one ) Rugby Tragic. Getting his name used like this !

                Please just promise me you’ll never go by Jokermantoo!!

              • April 8th 2018 @ 10:33am
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:33am | ! Report

                who’s the homophobe now?

                You are inferring i’m in the closet in a derogatory manner….

                Middle Class hypocrisy alert!!!

            • April 8th 2018 @ 12:30pm
              Marlin said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:30pm | ! Report

              The only thing that baffles me here is how did it get oxygen? Who cares what Izzy thinks? He doesn’t appear that smart

            • April 8th 2018 @ 3:13pm
              john ryan said | April 8th 2018 @ 3:13pm | ! Report

              Sorry I don’t regard Mormonism as a Religion its a cult read the book of Mormon its a hoot.
              only in America
              Take some time & read Kingdom of the Cults its an eye opener

              • April 9th 2018 @ 1:08am
                Rand Curtis said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:08am | ! Report

                john ryan, where to start… First Izzy in not a Mormon. Although born into a Mormon family he is now an evangelical Christian. Second, I’m not sure what you mean when you say cult- but that’s OK you’re not sure either. Third, there are now more “Mormons” outside America than in. Again, not sure what your point is.

                On this topic in genera, I agree with RTT in this respect. Popular culture does not negate the basic human rights of freedom of expression and religion. It didn’t negate them when those rights were denied to gay folks 20 years ago when the culture was different, and it won’t 20 years from now when the popular culture changes again. Will it?

                Taylorman, “I dont know but Id suggest it is a very scary world out there for those players who are right at this minute struggling with the acceptance in this game as a gay person and player.” My friend what about the man who believes in God? Is he comfortable in this conversation?

                I for one do believe. Not in a “magical person” but in benevolent and intelligent “Heavenly Parents” who probably have a good laugh now and again at our infantile and ridiculous assertions that we have it all figured out. Let’s all wait 100 years or so and take a good look back before we claim the moral high ground. Myself included, of course.

          • Roar Rookie

            April 8th 2018 @ 12:53pm
            Die hard said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:53pm | ! Report

            Yours is always a pleasant read

          • Roar Rookie

            April 10th 2018 @ 5:44am
            Kabous said | April 10th 2018 @ 5:44am | ! Report

            Jokerman
            ‘evolved person can see that it’s not worthy of debate – it’s just wrong’

            Bit of a contradictory statement – evolved enough to see it is not worthy of debate yet not evolved enough not to do so?

            Lets compare it to rugby where God made the rules of the game with only one difference – if you get penalised just once you die.
            Who wants to play such a game? Got no choice, when you have a brain that works (or not), you are in it.

            Not 5 min in you are penalized for offside. Off to the gallows you go.

            Enters Jesus who paid for your offside. You go free and get to play again.

            Offside again, but now just a yellow card so you can gaze at your navel in the sinbin wondering how to stay out of trouble.

            God says he is not messing about, he is holy – mighty tight rules. But He is BigTime love by making a way out.

            His game, his rules.
            True story…

            Folau wasn’t judging, only mentioned the penalty.

        • Roar Guru

          April 8th 2018 @ 10:45pm
          SandBox said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:45pm | ! Report

          The eleventh commandment is no-one talks about the 10 commandments…and the 10 commandments are whatever the sponsors say they are. Money both talks, and tells you what to say, or not to say. Zamyatin, Orwell & Huxley were on to something all those years ago

      • April 8th 2018 @ 8:16am
        Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 8:16am | ! Report

        farqueue (lovw the name) love your post.

        I might add the irony of what is essentially what people criticising Folau are saying. They are saying that there should be a general understanding of what is okay and what is not okay in terms of social viewpoints, and we should not deviate from this.

        Wouldn’t it be great if there was say a book that pretty much outlined this.

        Yes if only there was a ‘good book’ that we could refer to to base our lives on….. hmmm

        • April 8th 2018 @ 9:46am
          Yabba said | April 8th 2018 @ 9:46am | ! Report

          Your ‘good book’ is a mish mash of myths and legends of a mob of middle eastern goatherders, and third hand write ups of dubious origin about a political stirrer who may not have even existed. People with functioning brains see it for what it is, an internally massively inconsistent load of badly expressed drivel.

          I’ve gone and committed blasphemy. Take me out and stone me to death. That’s what the ‘good book’ says. A strange sort of free speech.

          • April 8th 2018 @ 10:06am
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:06am | ! Report

            yep

            all religion in my opinion is ridiculous.

            doesn’t change the fact that we are being hypocrites when we advocate religious freedom until we realise that it conflicts with our middle class progressive viewpoints.

            then we all act shocked and horrified before clambering for our copy of Dawkins’ The God Delusion for a bit of respite, before next week speaking out against islamaphobia or some such.

            Its either freedom of speech or nothing. Can’t have it both ways.

            • April 8th 2018 @ 10:58am
              Yabba said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:58am | ! Report

              As is often stated, free speech does not apply to shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre. Folau’s statement is akin to that, being absolutely harmful and distressing to young people struggling to come to terms with their own ‘god given’ sexuality. He should keep his stupid, irrational mind farts on such matters to himself, to avoid unnecessarily causing deep pain to others. Just because his head is full of brainwashed garbage, it does not mean that he should use his position to inflict that garbage on others.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 11:17am
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:17am | ! Report

                can you reference specifically what he said and the context of it?

                just so i can gauge where your anger is coming from? Obviously you are angry at the christian church? do you believe we should shut the christian church down? You relaise of course there viewpoints are indeed that of the muslim faith? are you preparedto show such anger towards them for practising and preaching their beliefs?

              • April 8th 2018 @ 12:54pm
                northerner said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:54pm | ! Report

                That reference came, I believe, from Oliver Wendell Holmes in a US Supreme Court ruling. The case involved a conscientious objector who was jailed for opposing the draft in WW1, and that was the justification of the time. It was subsequently superseded by a much more reasonable court ruling, to the effect that speech, all speech, could only be constrained if it involved “incitement to imminent unlawful action.”

                And that’s pretty much where the US stands today on the issue of free speech. Folau’s statements, distasteful as they may be, are nowhere near meeting that standard. Australians need to grow up and understand that in a genuine free speech country, they’re going to hear a lot of unpleasant, offensive and incorrect things. The appropriate way to deal with them is to disprove them, not stifle them.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 3:03pm
                Rob said | April 8th 2018 @ 3:03pm | ! Report

                northerner is spot on. Folau’s views fall well within the bounds of free speech. I 100% disagree with Folau, but he has every right to express his views. We need to prioritise free speech and religious freedom above offence (as long as no laws are being broken).

              • Roar Rookie

                April 9th 2018 @ 2:17pm
                piru said | April 9th 2018 @ 2:17pm | ! Report

                That would be relevant if anyone were trying to silence him and if this were an issue of free speech.

                It isn’t

                It’s an issue of an employee contradicting their employer’s public position

              • April 12th 2018 @ 10:05pm
                Mark said | April 12th 2018 @ 10:05pm | ! Report

                No its not

                You either have Free Speech or you have Censorship

                When you have Censorship where do you stop

                Who decides what should be Censored

          • April 9th 2018 @ 1:10am
            Rand Curtis said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:10am | ! Report

            Yabba, if I used that kind of language to describe something you found important in your life what would your reaction be?

        • April 8th 2018 @ 12:23pm
          Ojp said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:23pm | ! Report

          You can always check with the Australian men’s cricket team about what is OK and not OK to discuss in company; evidently they know all about ‘the line’.

    • April 8th 2018 @ 4:13am
      MH01 said | April 8th 2018 @ 4:13am | ! Report

      Between Christianity and Islam, which cover over 50% of the worlds population, people are shocked that Israel has pointed out …. that to this day these two major religions still do not accept same sex relationships ….. really ? Cause this was not clear for over a 100 years?

      What I find completely hypocritical is how many who are not Christian , criticise Christianity etc etc …. suddenly choose to accept the concept of hell. Welcome to current society – find “words” that hurt your “feelings” and play victim. And be completely hypocritical that you shall not allow someone to have a differing opinion – at which stage your will label them a bigot of some sort .

      For the whingers out there , leave Israel alone, head down to your local church or mosque , and be a hero , asking them to change the rules – blame the rules and not the player !

      As for Qantas – and their diversity policies like gender appropriate where staff are told not to use terms such as husband, wife , Mum and dad …… really …… this is sane ? People should have a look at the current Qantas diversity policy ! The sponsor has issues , not Israel.

    • April 8th 2018 @ 5:22am
      Ben said | April 8th 2018 @ 5:22am | ! Report

      Theres a book called The Mau. Its about Samoas struggle for independence from colonialism. In it theres a cartoon which has a picture of 2 missionaries dressed fully from head to toe holding bibles telling some half naked samoans to put some clothes on. The next picture shows 2 palagis sunbathing naked in modern day samoa with 2 samoans dressed head to toe holding bibles telling them to put some clothes on.
      My point is back when the first palagi missionaries arrived in the islands they forced the islanders to get rid of their gods and a lot of their cultural beliefs and forced christianity upon them.
      To this day any visit to any of Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Cook Islands, Niue shows christianity is extremly strong and part of everyday life in the islands. It is all encompassing.
      Now, the modern day palagi is trying to tell polynesia all that christian stuff we forced on you, well its rubbish. You know how we taught you people homosexuality is a sin well now we are telling you its not.
      To some extent colonialism still exists.
      The palagi telling, no forcing, polynesian people what to believe, what they say is right or wrong. The palagi making the rules for polynesians.
      Why cant Folau believe what he believes and express that belief.
      The palagi has done so for 100s of years.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 10:10am
        Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:10am | ! Report

        well said

        • April 10th 2018 @ 7:37pm
          Ruckin Oaf said | April 10th 2018 @ 7:37pm | ! Report

          Yeah RTT colonialism was such a great thing.

    • April 8th 2018 @ 6:07am
      JJJ said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:07am | ! Report

      Go back to sport, Roar.

    • April 8th 2018 @ 6:10am
      Malo said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:10am | ! Report

      Another pointless I am so morally superior than you article, drawn up by the Alan Joyce brigade.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 10:19am
        aussikiwi said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:19am | ! Report

        Haha so desperate to attack the progressive view that you didn’t even read the article.

        The author is a right wing virtue signaller like you.

        • April 8th 2018 @ 10:36am
          Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:36am | ! Report

          no i’m not a right winger

          I’m a progressive socialist.

          But nevermind, i believe in free speech now that it is not necessarily the vritue of the left. Hence i’m not a hypocrite and refuse to give up on my values.

          sigh

          • April 8th 2018 @ 12:44pm
            Ruckin Oaf said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:44pm | ! Report

            “…. but we can not pick and choose which religious beliefs are acceptable….”

            AND

            “….. i believe in free speech …..’

            So you’d have to be both for and against heresy/blasphemy , interesting couple of positions you’ve adopted there.

            • April 8th 2018 @ 12:53pm
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:53pm | ! Report

              I am for people to practice their religion and I believe its all nonsense.

              thats the ideology freedom of speech

              “I disapprove of what you say but i will defend to the death your right to say it” (Voltaire… allegedly)

              • April 10th 2018 @ 9:09pm
                Ruckin Oaf said | April 10th 2018 @ 9:09pm | ! Report

                What so female genital mutilation that’s ok with you when it’s a religious practice ?

          • Roar Guru

            April 8th 2018 @ 2:42pm
            JamesH said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:42pm | ! Report

            Freedom of speech/religion =/= freedom from criticism. Folau can voice his opinion, but if a lot of people find it offensive then they can call him out for it. And if he is found to have breached a code of conduct that he effectively signed up to then he faces the consequences.

            Nobody is trying to imprison the guy.

            • April 8th 2018 @ 2:48pm
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:48pm | ! Report

              there should be no code of conduct in a work place that prevents a person from answering a philosophical question based on their religious beliefs.

              We are not all here to play judge and jury.

              Some things need to be left to go through to the keeper

              • Roar Guru

                April 9th 2018 @ 9:26am
                Wal said | April 9th 2018 @ 9:26am | ! Report

                Where do you draw the line though RT2.

                There is some truly horrendous stuff in the new and old testament and Quarn.
                Where do we draw the line in term of what is hate speech and what is freedom of religion?

                If Izzy was an everyday person or member of the church, he may have gotten a small amount of blowback on twitter but most people wouldn’t care.

                But he’s not on 2 counts he works for The ARU who like QANTAS or many other large organisations that have social media policies the employees sign up to, don’t like it find other employment or challenge it in court as discriminatory employment practices until then you are bound to them.

                The second leads directly on from the first. He has a significant public profile, with that comes a certain understanding that you are going to be scrutinised more than the general public.

              • April 9th 2018 @ 9:57am
                concerned supporter said | April 9th 2018 @ 9:57am | ! Report

                Wal, you say.
                “The ARU who like QANTAS or many other large organisations that have social media policies the employees sign up to, don’t like it find other employment or challenge it in court as discriminatory employment practices until then you are bound to them.”
                Wal, you are perfectly correct in what you say. Had a chat recently with a local solicitor whose client had been dismissed by Qantas. At the initial court appearance, Qantas was represented by Senior & Junior counsel, 2 partners & 2 Solicitors from their solicitors, Ashurst.
                Costs were discussed if the dismissed employee lost. The dismissed Qantas employee withdrew, as they would have been bankrupted if they lost. We all know that Qantas is not short of money. They give RA in the vicinity of AUD 15- 20 Million each year.
                Also, do you remember DONE DEAL IN SEVEN’S SEX SAGA
                AMBER Harrison has agreed she won’t sue her previous law firm over their handling of her dispute with Channel 7 after her messy affair with boss Tim Worner, and in return, she won’t pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills. Ms Harrison’s

            • April 8th 2018 @ 4:59pm
              MH01 said | April 8th 2018 @ 4:59pm | ! Report

              All for freedom of criticism – though , that is not what this is , this is stupid ideology agenda – in the simplest of terms, he said sinners go to hell, but if they repent , they have an out clause ! It’s the basic premise of Christianity, all your brother and sisters can be saved from hell – been around for 100 years .

              So what gives people the right that their sexual beliefs trump Folaus religions beliefs ? Please explain ! Is this freedom ? Cause if he gets reprimanded for this, it’s not freedom….. his getting punished for his religious beliefs which are at odds with his sponsor ! Very diverse…

              • April 8th 2018 @ 9:41pm
                Crackerjack said | April 8th 2018 @ 9:41pm | ! Report

                Mate, what are you talking about? He hasn’t been reprimanded or punished! I get the feeling you would like him to just be, just so you can make a point and feel a tad more smarter and feel vindicated….

      • Roar Guru

        April 8th 2018 @ 10:33am
        peeeko said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:33am | ! Report

        fail, Malo

    • April 8th 2018 @ 6:13am
      Daz said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:13am | ! Report

      Mark Twain is quoted as saying “never let the facts get in the way of a good story”. In this case he might extrapolate that to say never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

      A phobia can be defined as an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something. But the meaning of the word homophobic has been conveniently expanded by the righteously outraged to encompass anything that anyone can find even remotely offensive to homosexuals.

      I fail to see how Folau either in his twitter statement or in his behaviour demonstrates a classic phobia to homosexuals. I further fail to see how what he said could in any way be classified as hate speech. He never said homosexuals should go to hell or in any way abused them or vilified them. He was merely stating a widely held multi-denominational religious teaching.

      So let’s get our facts straight.

      For those who like to shame and put people in the public stocks the worst apple that could be thrown at Folau would probably carry the label socially dumb and insensitive. Insensitive because, as someone else pointed out, some poor kid struggling with his or her sexuality may feel more guilt about who they are. But then again guilt is the currency of most religions.

      My own takeout from reading the bible is that God/Jesus was/is in the business of saving souls. Do souls have a gender? I can’t seem to recall anywhere in the bible where Jesus gave preference to or excluded any kind of gendered or gender confused soul. By all accounts one soul in particular he hung out with was pretty well used. I mean does anyone believe if there is a heaven or a hell there will be male and female toilets?

      And let’s remember curtailing freedom of speech is a two-edged sword. If we curtail Folau’s freedom to express what to him is obviously a deeply held religious belief then we also deny our own ability to counter that belief with logical, rational arguments of our own. Discussion rather than becoming educated goes underground where it can likely ferment and both sides are the poorer for it.

      If we slur Folau as homophobic or seek to ostracize him because of his behaviour then we are just as guilty ourselves of doing what we accuse him of.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 11:10am
        stella coles said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:10am | ! Report

        Gender confused is an insult ! Don’t you think !

        • April 8th 2018 @ 11:35am
          Daz said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:35am | ! Report

          No I don’t think so.

          In a former occupation a long time ago, when it was the comfortable fashion to denigrate gays and transgenders I had cause to speak to many people going through the process of transitioning from one gender to another. I admit I brought all the usual prejudices and assumptions of my generation to bear on them.

          But after talking to them for a while I felt nothing but compassion. Without meaning to sound slick they honestly didn’t know whether they were Arthur or Mather. It was an agonizingly painful decision for them to change sex. I felt and witnessed first hand the awful and soul searching choices they had to make along the way.

          • April 8th 2018 @ 11:52am
            Daz said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:52am | ! Report

            Mind you I’m not talking about all of us men who like to wear our wives slinky satin panties to work under our suits. Everyone does that don’t they? The only trouble is you need to wed a fat bottomed woman. But we all know how hot and sexy fat bottomed women are. It’s a song right? 🙂

        • April 9th 2018 @ 1:23am
          Rand Curtis said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:23am | ! Report

          Have you met any transgender teenagers? “Gender confused” is often a perfect description. Maybe we should all assume good intent when someone tries to express themselves using this piss-poor medium.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 11:19am
        Thomas English said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:19am | ! Report

        Well said.
        While I don’t agree with most of what Folau said, he shows plenty of courage to say it.
        We live in a world where everyone thinks everyone’s else’s opinion is just as important (or at least they pretend they do), but none of these people actually practice what they preach.

        To the best of my knowledge, no one called Pocock out for actually breaking a law, nor expressing an opinion.

        • April 8th 2018 @ 12:29pm
          Ojp said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:29pm | ! Report

          Really?

          You’ve never read anything critical of Pocock along the ‘should stick to rugby’ line ?

          • April 8th 2018 @ 5:15pm
            MH01 said | April 8th 2018 @ 5:15pm | ! Report

            Feel free to dig up one of these many sources that pocock got critised for his personal beliefs that insulted someone’s “feelings” he got huge praise from the media cause he got offended by “words” on a rugby pitch…. so now 29 others on the pitch have to be careful they don’t offend his feelings…. the absurdity is that pocock is called a hero and Folau a bigot ….. Media loves pocock , it’s only on fan sites he was criticised as clearly common sense had failed , and he turned what happens on a rugby pitch each weekend into an agenda .

        • April 8th 2018 @ 12:34pm
          Daz said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:34pm | ! Report

          Even though I vehemently disagree with everything he says, my life to let him say it. Just for the record it was not Voltaire who said that but someone close to him.

          If you want to mount a logical, reasonable, rational argument against my beliefs then I will meet you on the field of courteous, honest debate.

          But If your blind passion overrides reason then like the FBI hostage negotiator program teaches, you are incontrovertibly unreachable. It’s like a see-saw. Emotion up, reason down and like the father of modern journalism said, never the twain shall meet.

          • Roar Guru

            April 8th 2018 @ 10:40pm
            SandBox said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:40pm | ! Report

            Agree. Is Rudyard Kipling the father of modern journalism?

      • April 9th 2018 @ 8:34pm
        Campbell Watts said | April 9th 2018 @ 8:34pm | ! Report

        What?!? No male or female toilets in heaven?

        I thought it was damnation without relief in hell? Must be a lot of crossed legs in heaven! 😉

      • April 12th 2018 @ 10:12pm
        Mark said | April 12th 2018 @ 10:12pm | ! Report

        Well said

        I don’t agree with him – but he has a right to say what he believes (and be criticised for it) and for others to express their contrary beliefs

        Its called debate – which is good for society

        As opposed to those who think they know best telling everyone what they must think, when they must think it and how they should think it

        Has NO ONE read 1984?

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