Reds coach slams door shut on Quade Cooper

Darren Walton Roar Guru

By Darren Walton, Darren Walton is a Roar Guru

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    Queensland coach Brad Thorn has slammed the door shut on Quade Cooper, saying the superstar outcast will remain just that despite admitting the Reds lack inspiration following Saturday night’s Super Rugby drubbing in Sydney.

    Thorn also all but ruled out a return for fellow Wallabies back Karmichael Hunt following the Reds’ 37-16 loss to the NSW Waratahs at the SCG.

    But it was Thorn’s determination to leave Cooper out in the cold that will most bewilder and frustrate Queensland fans after the Reds’ insipid attacking play yielded just one try – and even that came from an intercept.

    Queensland and Wallabies great turned commentator Tim Horan took to Twitter to urge the first-year coach to turn to Cooper to solve the Reds’ woes.

    “Think its time now for Brad Thorn to call back @QuadeCooper into Reds team. Have to create opportunities and play with some width,” Horan posted.

    But that won’t be happening any time soon, if ever, on Thorn’s watch.

    “Quade’s been playing club rugby. He’s been playing well, but we’ve just been working with the guys we’ve got there,” Thorn said when asked if he’d closed the door on the 70-Test playmaker.

    When reminded that only he could bring Cooper back into the fold, Thorn appeared to draw a line in the sand.

    “Like I said at the start of the season, we’re going in a different direction, so that’s all I’ve got for ya.”

    Despite having a cocaine possession charge against him dropped in court last month, Hunt hasn’t been sighted at the Reds since standing himself down following his arrest in late December.

    Like Cooper, Reds fans shouldn’t expect to see the dual international back any time soon.

    “Yeah well, he hasn’t been in and he’s not playing club rugby at the moment so that doesn’t look to be happening,” Thorn said.

    Queensland veteran and stand-in captain James Slipper is backing Thorn’s young side to turn their season around after losing their past three games to lose touch with the Waratahs, Australia’s new conference leaders.

    “It’s a disappointing result but I do back the team, definitely,” Slipper said.

    “I think we’ve got a great group. We started the season really well. We’re obviously going through a rough patch.

    “We haven’t really been the same team coming back from the tour (of Argentina and South Africa), but I think we’ve learnt a lot of lessons along the way.

    “We probably learnt a fair bit tonight again, but the big thing is we get to play at home next week. We haven’t played there in six weeks so you feel lost without it a bit.”

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    The Crowd Says (156)

    • April 15th 2018 @ 2:46pm
      Ruckin Oaf said | April 15th 2018 @ 2:46pm | ! Report

      Ahh well there’s an easy decision for me. This Saturday I’ll be off to watch Souths v Brothers rather than Reds v Chiefs.

      • Roar Rookie

        April 15th 2018 @ 8:29pm
        Die hard said | April 15th 2018 @ 8:29pm | ! Report

        I was going to say ‘you are not a Queenslander.’

        But then I thought ‘actually I wonder how south’s are going’ and that you might be right

        I am going to the Reds Chiefs. Home team vs what would have been my boyhood team I can’t lose.

        • April 18th 2018 @ 9:30am
          Bootlicker said | April 18th 2018 @ 9:30am | ! Report

          ^ Are you a Queenslander ? If not, you wouldn’t understand.

      • April 16th 2018 @ 11:31am
        oldman emu said | April 16th 2018 @ 11:31am | ! Report

        Cooper and Hunt – cant Rugby AU step in and get them into another squad so they can work off their worth?

        If the QRU complain and want $$ tell them to use them or lose them

        Surely they can make it up as they go along – FFS they run the show.

    • April 15th 2018 @ 2:52pm
      Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 2:52pm | ! Report

      Quade Cooper. every coach he’s had has dropped him, except for one. what does that tell you?

      • April 15th 2018 @ 3:21pm
        Rucki Oaf said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:21pm | ! Report

        Every coach but the really successful one, yeah what does that tell you?

        • April 15th 2018 @ 3:59pm
          Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:59pm | ! Report

          the really successful one? when was the last time cooper was succesful 7 years ago… that successful coach initially left him out of his test rugby side when he took over…. favouring the brumbies flyhalf. that one?

          the one that had no control of the dressing room? and left disgraced? yes that one

          • April 15th 2018 @ 4:21pm
            Ruckin Oaf said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:21pm | ! Report

            Hey R T T

            Aww sorry I tend to judge a coach on how well his team performs not how well he massages egos

            Next you’ll be telling us that David Nucifora was a dud coach too.

            • April 15th 2018 @ 4:31pm
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:31pm | ! Report

              mckenzie was rubbish wallaby coach and left the reds in a shambloic state having had 1 lucky season a very very long time ago

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:04pm
                Hurles said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:04pm | ! Report

                Pretty sure McKenzie wasn’t disgraced, Beale was the disgrace. Hooper and the little boys club within the team supported Beale, so McKenzie honorably walked. McKenzie was an opportunity for the Wallabies to have a truely great, tactical, Australian coach. Unfortunately RA let the players be more important than the game.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:10pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:10pm | ! Report

                yeah mckenzie did nothing wrong there, thats why he quit and has gone into hiding.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:18pm
                Red Block said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:18pm | ! Report

                Actually he had a really good season in 2010 but the young group he had faded late and then the Reds obviously in 2011 and then 2012 was pretty good but a bad run of injuries cruelled them.
                Before that he coached the Waratahs in 2004 and made the semis and got them to the final in 2005 and then 2008.
                Arguably the greatest Waratah coach of all time!
                Not bad for a rubbish coach.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:27pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:27pm | ! Report

                red block, tell the truth, you are ewan mckenzie aren’t you?

                Robbie deans won 7 super rugby tiitles, is he afforder your comments as somewhat of a super coach? if then why did we sack him and give the reigns to mckenzie?

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:44pm
                Fionn said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:44pm | ! Report

                Because Deans had had 5 and a half years to fashion the team he wanted to create.

                He had some very good periods (2010 to early 2011), but ultimately it didn’t work out and he looked bereft of ideas from the RWC onwards.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:50pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:50pm | ! Report

                one idea he had was send Quade Cooper packing.

                as did very other coach since.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 7:41pm
                Fionn said | April 15th 2018 @ 7:41pm | ! Report

                Deans’ best seasons were when Quade was at the helm.

                Link’s best period was when Quade was at 10.

                Cheika’s best results in 2016 were when Quade was at 10.

                He’s gone now, but your logic seems pretty shoddy.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 7:55pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 7:55pm | ! Report

                Fionn

                Cheikas best results were in 2015 when Foley was at no 10.

                You know when we made it to the world cup final.

                Quade Coope could not make his club sides starting xv when he was in france.

                wake up and smell the coffee.

                2011 was 7 years ago. Thats the last time Quade cooper was in good form and even then it was prior to that years disastrous world cup where he was found out to be a laughable test match no 10

              • April 16th 2018 @ 7:52am
                Fionn said | April 16th 2018 @ 7:52am | ! Report

                Foley was also the starting 10 in 2014, 2016 and 2017 when results were abysmal…

                In 2016 when we were at our nadir Cheika Brough Quade in to 10 and, shockingly, our results improved.

              • April 16th 2018 @ 10:04am
                Jacko said | April 16th 2018 @ 10:04am | ! Report

                So everybodys best season was with Quade in the 10 spot yet somehow all those coaches failed to see that and all dropped Quade….I guess based on that if Souths have a great season then their coach will drop Quade then.

              • Roar Rookie

                April 16th 2018 @ 11:18am
                Sage said | April 16th 2018 @ 11:18am | ! Report

                This becomes really tedious. Constant bickering and some inane schoolyard “he said she said” commentary.
                How about this – The Reds look very wanting in attack and have done for a while.
                There is an existing contract player who has shown some flair and enterprise in the past. Many dislike him, many have a pathological loathing of him. Some think more of him but nobody thinks he can do no wrong. What is the harm in the Reds scheme of things, to at least let him have a crack. Make the performance criteria very clear and just let him have a go. Then if he is poor and creates no attacking improvement we’re not going to be a lot worse off than we are now and all the naysayers can dance around the fire congratulating themselves. Or, he may just introduce some flair where there currently is none. The only barrier really is pigheadedness. Considering the history it would be better looked at as something to either prove an opinion or accept that sometimes we can make mistakes

              • April 16th 2018 @ 11:21am
                Fionn said | April 16th 2018 @ 11:21am | ! Report

                Jacko, am I wrong in saying that Deans’ best period was 2010-11, and that Link’s best period was the Spring Tour in 2013?

              • April 16th 2018 @ 12:12pm
                Jacko said | April 16th 2018 @ 12:12pm | ! Report

                No Fionn you are spot on…The issue is that it was now 5-8 years ago and I dont see the relevance in
                the way QC was then to the way he is now. Carter was the best in the world then…..He isnt now. TBH tho I do think the Brumbies should chase QC for this season at least and stop using Kiwi 10s who dont make it in NZ. Hawera is not a good 10 and QC is better than him so Aus rugby needs to make it happen, and fast. I see no loser in that situation except maybe QC doesnt want to move, but surely he wants to play SR.

              • April 16th 2018 @ 3:19pm
                Hurles said | April 16th 2018 @ 3:19pm | ! Report

                I honestly don’t understand why individuals come on here purely to hate on clearly talented individuals. Be It Cooper, Foley or whoever. It’s the same old few that turn up every time commenting for the sake of telling everyone over and over how little they think of them. Maybe it’s time to grow up a bit gentlemen. I come to the roar genuine debate. Some of you sound like old men sitting around with nothing better to do than tell everyone how useless they are and how much you hate them.

        • April 15th 2018 @ 4:02pm
          Machiavelli said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:02pm | ! Report

          No doubt Cooper has issues and is a confidence player but you would have to think that its personal between Brad and Cooper given their playing history.

          As well, Brad is a rookie coach with fixed views that will change with time when he realizes that his players are not all like “Brad Thorn” the player and that the key to coaching is making the best with what you have.

          • April 15th 2018 @ 4:33pm
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:33pm | ! Report

            id say its because Thorn knows how much of a liablity Cooper is because he would have sat through countless team meetings as a player critiquing Coopers inadequate ability to play at the top level

            • Roar Guru

              April 17th 2018 @ 10:01am
              Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:01am | ! Report

              And despite that the Reds are giving up more tries per game this year, than they did last year in the games Quade played.

              Seems like that inadequate ability was able to work better than the players he’s chosen in his place.

              And that’s before you consider the huge drop in tries scored per game by the Reds.

        • April 15th 2018 @ 5:39pm
          Peter Kelly said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:39pm | ! Report

          When did Australia last have a successful coach – haven’t won a WC since 99 or a Bledisloe for 15 years, Cooper was still a kid.

          • April 15th 2018 @ 6:00pm
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:00pm | ! Report

            were talking about super rugby success and Quade won the competition all on his own in 2011.

            Foley never did anything to win the waratahs a super rugby title, ahem..

            • April 15th 2018 @ 6:24pm
              Morsie said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:24pm | ! Report

              Except kick the goal that really mattered.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:51pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:51pm | ! Report

                ahem

                we don’t mention things like that don’t you know.

            • April 15th 2018 @ 6:25pm
              Malo said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:25pm | ! Report

              2014 he kicked the goal that win it for the Tahs, are you kidding mate.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 7:57pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 7:57pm | ! Report

                you can’t talk about that on the roar. Anything that points out that Foley is any good is simply something we should not talk about.

                that and someones religious beliefs. we are not meant to mention them.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 9:59pm
                Peter Kelly said | April 15th 2018 @ 9:59pm | ! Report

                After Joubert penalised Sir Richie for too good.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 10:49pm
                Realist said | April 15th 2018 @ 10:49pm | ! Report

                Foley is the ICEMAN !
                Cool as ice – he missed one from right in front in Dundedin last year which could have gifted Australia a possible Bledisloe cup.
                Foley’s form during the 2016 and 2017 rugby championship has been akin to Lay Down Sally’s at the Olympics.
                Though surely Nic Phipp’s strangulation of his teammates during England’s undeadted tour of Australia in 2016 deserves a Chieka Salute
                Go Wallatahs !!!

              • April 15th 2018 @ 10:55pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 10:55pm | ! Report

                hey realist, aside from the ninsense youve sprouted

                atleast hes not playing park rugby with a bunch of real estate agents like your boy quade

          • April 16th 2018 @ 6:25pm
            Malo said | April 16th 2018 @ 6:25pm | ! Report

            2015 was exceptional

    • April 15th 2018 @ 3:09pm
      Malo said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:09pm | ! Report

      They should bring in Horan

      • April 15th 2018 @ 8:17pm
        Campbell Watts said | April 15th 2018 @ 8:17pm | ! Report

        reckon he’s probably a bit too old now Malo….

        • April 16th 2018 @ 3:22am
          Bakkies said | April 16th 2018 @ 3:22am | ! Report

          Unless he is referring to his son Alex?

    • April 15th 2018 @ 3:14pm
      Adsa said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

      So try Duncan Pauai or Stewart at 10, Lance is not going to set the back line alive, try something different Brad. It’s not often that Foley looks the superior 10 in Super or Test matches and he shined all night compared to Lance.

      • April 15th 2018 @ 3:18pm
        Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:18pm | ! Report

        Foley is the 2nd or 3rd best no 10 in the world

        • April 15th 2018 @ 3:30pm
          Bakkies said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:30pm | ! Report

          No he isn’t.

          • April 15th 2018 @ 3:35pm
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:35pm | ! Report

            yes he is. He’s the best no 10 in australia, daylight is 2nd, and the only players at test level doing a better job are obviously Barret, and then its arguable no one else. Possibly sexton is better becaise of his kicking but Foley isn’t missing much lately.

            • April 15th 2018 @ 3:59pm
              Charlie Turner said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:59pm | ! Report

              Foley might have worn the 10 jersey last night but he played at second and mostly third receiver. If you gave Lance a second decent playmaker he’d look a lot better but unfortunately that cupboards deliberately bare. The pressure will mount on Thorn to get results with home crowds averaging +/-4500 less than last years annus horribilis.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:08pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:08pm | ! Report

                Jonny Wilkinson rarely took the ball from 1st receiver.

                he still ran the game and kicked his goals. Thats what a no 10 does. That play for the team, not themselves.

                Thats why Quade cooper is and was a failure as ano 10. 1 decent season 7 years a go, where his flick passing actually came off, is not enough for the praise he receives.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:38pm
                Charlie Turner said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:38pm | ! Report

                Absolute rubbish that Wilkinson was rarely first receiver. To mention his name in any context to Foley is absurd. Caviar and Cat food.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:43pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:43pm | ! Report

                go and watch the world cup final in 2003. Ben Cohen took more ball from 1st receiver than Jonny wilkinson.

                Wilkinson was a walking football boot. Nothing more.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:51pm
                Fionn said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:51pm | ! Report

                ‘Wilkinson was a walking football boot. Nothing more.’

                Ridiculous statement. He was one of the best flyhalvs of all time.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:52pm
                Bakkies said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:52pm | ! Report

                Mourad Boudjellal said Wilkinson was Foie Gras and he went to Pate aka Fish Paste with Cooper.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:32pm
                Gray-Hand said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:32pm | ! Report

                Comparing Wilkinson to either Cooper or Foley is pretty pointless. Wilkinson was primarily a kicking flyhalf. Cooper and Foley have a running and passing game.

                It’s apples and Oranges. Foley and Cooper coukdn’t execute a game plan designed for Wilkinson’s boot, and Wilkinson couldn’t execute a running game plan designed for Foley it Cooper.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:58pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:58pm | ! Report

                Jonny wilkinson couldn’t run, never made a break, left that for Lewsey and Cohen to come in from their blindside wings to take the ball from 1st receiver, he rarely if ever laid on tries for others, he left that for mike Catt or Will greenwood.

                he kicked goals.

                That was all he did

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:46pm
                Peter Kelly said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:46pm | ! Report

                Grant Fox never scored a try for ABs was definitely a boot, game has changed a lot, comparing players from different eras and for different teams is a waste of time.
                Cooper well past his best but certainly getting paid well.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:16pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:16pm | ! Report

                Jonny played 97 tests and scored 7 tries
                Foley’s played 55 tests (49 starts) so roughly half as many, yet he has already scored twice as many tries ie 14

                this illustrates how much each player actually takes on the line.

                Wilkinson was a goal kicker. Foley is the better first five because he is better with ball in hand but he also kicks goals albeit less prodigiously.

                Of the two Foley is the better allround player.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:30pm
                Charlie Turner said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:30pm | ! Report

                RTT, you’re embarrassing yourself now.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:38pm
                Fionn said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:38pm | ! Report

                Hang on, I thought you said: ‘Wilkinson … ran the game and kicked his goals. Thats what a no 10 does. That play for the team, not themselves.’

                How do you reconcile that with: ‘Foley’s played 55 tests (49 starts) so roughly half as many, yet he has already scored twice as many tries ie 14’

                Is it about scoring more tries yourself or running the game and kicking your goals?

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:57pm
                Kane said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:57pm | ! Report

                Rugby Tragic Too so you’re saying that Sam Cane attacks the line and is a better running flanker than Hooper as he scores 25% more tries per test?

                You said Foley is a better around player by saying he is better with ball in hand but he also kicks goals albeit less prodigiously.

                You did forget to mention defence. Wilkinson was a rock on defence, Foley, less prodigiously…

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:07pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:07pm | ! Report

                wilkinson was a very good defender front on yes.

                But his lack of pace meant he was not the amazing cover defender that Foley is. This often goes unheralded in Foleys case.

                The other thing to remember, and I think its of highest importance for most on here, is that Jonny Wilkinnson never ever played for the Waratahs, so according to most roarers thats the biggest factor in determining someones worth. had he grown up playing in the eastern suburbs of sydney he’d be judged by many roarers as the worst player to have ever put on a boot.

                As for the comments on Wilkinson running things without touching the ball. I was being kind. He organised his side well but he often stayed out of the play because his running and passing games were not his strengths. He waited for opportunities to kick otherwise he hardly got involved. He played to his strengths.

                In terms of the try scoring stats it tells a story on the style of player we are discussing. Wilkinson was not the protypical no 10 that he gets credit for, is all i’m saying. Not criticising him at all.

              • Roar Guru

                April 15th 2018 @ 7:58pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 15th 2018 @ 7:58pm | ! Report

                The other thing to remember, and I think its of highest importance for most on here, is that Jonny Wilkinnson never ever played for the Waratahs, so according to most roarers thats the biggest factor in determining someones worth. had he grown up playing in the eastern suburbs of sydney he’d be judged by many roarers as the worst player to have ever put on a boot.

                Well well well RTT. As an outsider with no bones in any camp, I say that the English are a lot less popular in Australia – especially in sports – than any born and bred Sydney boy from the eastern suburbs.

                The only reason why Johnny Wilkinson is regarded as a great player in the SH is that he proved himself against the best and earned respect.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 8:09pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 8:09pm | ! Report

                you;d think so

                such is the anti waratah hysteria from the northern state even a ‘pom’ will gain favouritism over a new south welshmen.

                crazy isn’t it

                ps i ma not disrespecting him. There is a difference between observation and criticism.

                mine are merely observations.

                I loved Wilkinson as a player. He did what he did better than anyone. He kicked goals. But he was not a great all-round rugby player. Anyone thats fair dinkum would admit that.

              • Roar Guru

                April 15th 2018 @ 8:21pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 15th 2018 @ 8:21pm | ! Report

                That NSW is more “disliked” than England I find very hard to believe.

                If Wilko only was a “kicker” I seriously doubt that the two greatest players ever would take time to record a farewell video when Wilko hanged up his boots.

                But hang in there Champ 😉

              • April 15th 2018 @ 8:26pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 8:26pm | ! Report

                classic loss of argument

                a pointless hyperlink proving nothing and a patronising sign off

                text book

              • Roar Rookie

                April 16th 2018 @ 7:37am
                Paulo said | April 16th 2018 @ 7:37am | ! Report

                Different players for different teams. JW could get away with lack of running as the team around him compensated. Not sure how Foleys team compensates for his gaps. Anyone listing best #10s in the world would surely place JW near the top. Foley not nearly so high.

                As for tries scored, that’s a meaningless stat used only to support your already held view. How many World Cups as each won?

            • April 15th 2018 @ 4:07pm
              Bakkies said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:07pm | ! Report

              ‘yes he is.’

              My hole he is better than Sexton, Farrell, Sanchez, Cruden, Russell.

              I would even have the disgraced Paddy Jackson ahead of him. Jackson can at least kick out of hand and is a better defender.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:09pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:09pm | ! Report

                easily a better player than farrell, sanchez and russell.

                He has a better passing and running game than Sexton and now that he’s kikcing at 90%… hes better than sexton too.

                Cruden couldn’t cement a spot ahead of barrett so its hard to say.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:49pm
                Peter Kelly said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:49pm | ! Report

                Cruden uninjured started for Barrett to finish – Crudens biggest issue was to play in same era as the best ever first five Dan Carter.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:20pm
                Bakkies said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

                I take it you didn’t watch you the education that Foley got from the much younger Russell at Murrayfield?

                Foley can barely kick out of hand, always a charge down candidate and his defence is suspect. His passing doesn’t have a great range either.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:55pm
                Reverse Wheel said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:55pm | ! Report

                Cherry picking a single example doesn’t prove anything. For the record, I don’t rate Foley that highly (2 or 3) but I do think he’s in the top few. I thought his defense last night was pretty poor though and he needs to work on that.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:24pm
                Fionn said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:24pm | ! Report

                Whether he is the best in Aus is irrelevant to how he compares internationally. Serious question, would Foley start at any of the NZ SR teams ahead of Barrett, McKenzie, Mounga or Sopoaga?

                Would he start for any of the home nations before Farrell, Ford, Sexton, Russell, or Biggar?

                I think the answer to both of these questions are likely to be no.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:43pm
                hello said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:43pm | ! Report

                I agree fion. But I do not think you will get RTT to believe a Foley has many faults

              • April 15th 2018 @ 4:34pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:34pm | ! Report

                If foley played at those teams he would be known as a world beater.

                He’d only sit on the pine at the hurricanes because they have a once ina generation phenomenon.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:36pm
                Out plum said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:36pm | ! Report

                This is a non argument. One player doesn’t make a team. How would Farrell or Russell or Sexton slot in at the Tahs or Wallabies….probably not much better than Foley if at all. Each of those guys is enjoying playing behind a good international pack which allows them to do their thing. Foley would probably slot in pretty nicely behind the Irish, English or Scottish packs and might even out-shine those guys. Where were these guys when their packs were being dominated….classic example being RWC 15 when Farrell was nowhere. One example is not enough, but it’s always been the same….backs have a much better time of it when their forwards are going forward.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 5:52pm
                Peter Kelly said | April 15th 2018 @ 5:52pm | ! Report

                Foley has the shortest kicking ever for a first five, the WBs used Hodge to get out of there own half

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:19pm
                Taylorman said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:19pm | ! Report

                Geez for a minute there Id thought Id stumbled on a view that Foley was a world class 10 or something silly like that.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:44pm
                Out plum said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:44pm | ! Report

                Perhaps the current “class” of 10’s isn’t that great.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 6:24pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 6:24pm | ! Report

                paul kelly yet another urban myth.

                i watch rugby closely and Foley has a very good boot in general play.

                often the commentators mislead with failing to recognise this only ever harping on the odd poor kick.

                take last night Foleys tactical kicking was superb, one kick travelled atleast 60 meters on the fly.

                take the world cup final. Watch it closely. Foley completely out kicked Dan carter for 70 minutes of that match yet because Carter slotted a drop goal (which was superb don’t get me wrong) we all go away thinking Foley didn’t kick well and Crater won that battle. Apart from the drop goal it was the other way around. carter failed to find touch, kicked striaght down the throats of our back 3 etc. foley found terra firma far more often than dan carter.

                as i said watch rugby closely and watch Foleys performances and tell me he cant kick long with precision time and time again.

                is it perfect, no. but it is far better than he gets credit for.

              • Roar Rookie

                April 15th 2018 @ 8:55pm
                Die hard said | April 15th 2018 @ 8:55pm | ! Report

                It was hard to read through all that RTT. I try to be gracious, but your description of the world cup final made me realize you are delusional.

                RTT the game is available. It waa a great game. Foley went ok. But Carter was wonderful. Every article since says same.

                Foley doesn’t need you to stick up for him. He’s had plenty of great moments and he’ll have more

              • April 15th 2018 @ 10:05pm
                Peter Kelly said | April 15th 2018 @ 10:05pm | ! Report

                Foley never out played Carter at anything – Foleys only saving grace is being the best of a bad bunch in a country that still thinks Quade Cooper has talent.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 9:41pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 9:41pm | ! Report

                Die hard.

                watch it agin and take note

                i am a big believer that perception is completely different to reality. Carter failed to find touch a couple of times that lead to the wallabies getting back into that match.

                Foleys kicking performance out of hand was absolutely faultless, in fact it was amazing the amount of times he kicked to grass when Carter only drilled it straight to our back 3. I’ve watched it very closely and up until the 66th-70th or so minute technically Foley had outplayed Carter in that department at least.

                apart rom that they had similar kick/pass/run stats except that Foley made 3 times as many metres with ball in hand….

                Carter steps up slots a drop goal and the commentators who remained oblivious to the previous mistakes Carter made start lauding him. Now thats okay but credit where credit us due, up until that moment Foley had kicked better than Carter in general play in that game, really he’d played better in general play. Does Carter’s drop goal equate to his game being lauded as a great game, and Foley an utter failure, well it seems so, in the court of public opinion.

                What i’m saying is that after the game many roarers were critical of Foley, i went back and watched it a couple of times and couldn’t believe how unfair people were on Foley compared to Carter.

                I’m not saying Foley deserved man of the match, far from it. it was nothing more than a good solid performance and he didn;t kick a drop goal to put the game beyond reach. I’m saying Carter didn’t deserve the accolades of man of the match. I did notice that a lot of the footage during stopage of play centred on Dan Carter/Richie Mccaw and keiran Read. This gives the perception that they were more involved in the vistory than what they actually were. Nonu for mine was the man of the match. Carter deserved a mention for his drop goal and penalty kicking but other than that he was average.

                A lot of what we base our opinion son is pure fantasy.

                I recall watching a test match in Sydney (from memory it was a tryless draw) and hearing the commentators raving about another All Black, Keiran Read, who they were saying was ‘everywhere’ and many more accolades. I remember thinking i haven’t actually seen him do anything. so i replayed the game to see exactly what he did.

                He made a small amount of tackles and hit some rucks (nothing of note). But what i found truly amazing was that he didn’t actually take the ball into conatct until the final minutes of the match. in fact throughout the whole match he’d only touched it 3 times, twice passing and once taking into a tackle making maybe 1 metre.

                Yet the commentators namely Tim Horan was raving about him throughout the match at the same time criticising Wycliff palu for not getting involved. I noticed that every time the cameras panned to a player during a stoppage it seemed to focus on the bearded man that is Keiran Read. its obviously a TV decision to pan to the guy that best encompasses what a rugby player looks like giving the impression that they are ‘everywhere’.

                i could go on but the crux is we really need to think about where and how we form our opinions.

                In the previous seasons Foleys copped some criticism for charge downs, i’ve pointed out on countless occasiosn that not all of these charge downs have been from his hands. some from Hodge, some from DHP, a few from genia, but people don’t want this to be pointed out to them. They just want to stick to their opinions, they want the perception not the reality.

              • April 15th 2018 @ 10:08pm
                Peter Kelly said | April 15th 2018 @ 10:08pm | ! Report

                And Foley has won or been nominated for World player of the year how many times ?
                Slow night biting cause TV is rubbish

              • April 16th 2018 @ 4:37am
                Kane said | April 16th 2018 @ 4:37am | ! Report

                So the match stats for that game of Kieran’s you mention have him running four times gaining 1.5m per run and passing nine. Making 16/17 tackles. Winning 2 lineouts without loss and not being penalised.

                Palu’s stats show him running 11 times but only gaining five more meters in total despite running seven more times. Gaining 1.2m per run and passing four. Making 7/8 tackles. Winning 2 lineouts without loss and not being penalised. But lost the ball incontact once.

                How’s your memory? Is 16 tackles a small amount?

              • April 15th 2018 @ 10:14pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 10:14pm | ! Report

                Peter Kelly that is irrelevant in this discussion

                No one is saying Dan carter is not a far better player than Foley. thats obvious.

                But in that 1 game, carter was not dramatically better, in fact up until the drop gaol Foley had played better.

                My point is Foley does a lot of stuff without due credit

              • April 16th 2018 @ 12:12am
                Matt said | April 16th 2018 @ 12:12am | ! Report

                In the WC final Carter was intentionally kicking it to the Aus back 3 rather than in space.

                Kicking into space allows your chasers to peg the back 3 down which usually results in the other team kick the ball out and play restarting with a lineout.

                NZ were trying to play the game at pace and keep the ball in play. They did this by kicking straight to the Aus back 3 who then ran it back because they had the time and space to do so. NZ then attempted to turn the ball over so they could attach from broken play rather than a lineout.

              • April 16th 2018 @ 7:47am
                Peter Kelly said | April 16th 2018 @ 7:47am | ! Report

                Yet who was man of the match, in your mind Carters only contribution was a drop goal.
                You need better glasses

              • April 16th 2018 @ 10:34am
                Taylorman said | April 16th 2018 @ 10:34am | ! Report

                Wheres Rugby tragic one? I need to talk to him about his upgrade. It needs a lot more work.

                Looks more like a 2015 Essa rebuild. 🙂

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:17am
                Cuw said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:17am | ! Report

                @ Taylorman

                ” Wheres Rugby tragic one? I need to talk to him about his upgrade. It needs a lot more work. ”

                it seems like a prototype that escaped from the factory and is running around not know ing wtf 😛

            • April 18th 2018 @ 9:38am
              Bootlicker said | April 18th 2018 @ 9:38am | ! Report

              How many points has Foley missed for the Wallabies ?. I`d day over 200 easily.

          • April 15th 2018 @ 3:37pm
            Malo said | April 15th 2018 @ 3:37pm | ! Report

            He is

          • April 16th 2018 @ 10:10am
            Jacko said | April 16th 2018 @ 10:10am | ! Report

            If he visits NZ he wont even be the 2nd or 3rd best no 10 in the country let alone the world. I would rather have Barrett, Sopounga, McKenzie and mounga than Foley. There are 4-5 better 10s in the UK as well

        • April 15th 2018 @ 9:19pm
          rusty742 said | April 15th 2018 @ 9:19pm | ! Report

          Foley isn’t even the best 10 in the waratahs starting 15…laughable, however you got a bite.

      • April 15th 2018 @ 8:36pm
        Big Steve said | April 15th 2018 @ 8:36pm | ! Report

        hopefully the lance on the wallabies talk is finishsed now. he is an average player. had some good games and puts in but not a skill player.

    • April 15th 2018 @ 4:03pm
      Jacky said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:03pm | ! Report

      Only two words to describe Thorn’s “Pig Head”Bloody stupidity.He is proving to be as one eyed in his selections as the national coach and we all know how successful he is.
      If Thorn wants to have any success then his team needs to score tries and his current back line is not up to it.

    • April 15th 2018 @ 4:11pm
      enoughisenough said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:11pm | ! Report

      Hey Thorn, don’t worry about closing the door on Quade, don’t let the door hit you when you are on your way out. Looks like Thorn believes his own BS, but results, and the way the Reds are playing, tell the real story. Thorn is showing himself to be a very limited coach, and an even poorer selector of talent.

      • April 15th 2018 @ 4:26pm
        Ruckin Oaf said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

        You never know unless things turn around Cooper might outlast Thorn in Qld………..

        • April 15th 2018 @ 4:47pm
          Rugby Tragic Too said | April 15th 2018 @ 4:47pm | ! Report

          pigs as well, you know, they might out last things long enough to, you know, fly

      • April 16th 2018 @ 10:14am
        Jacko said | April 16th 2018 @ 10:14am | ! Report

        Enough……Yor are right…The way the Reds are playing tells the real story…..Guts and determination are on display in large quantities….The attack will come…….

        • Roar Guru

          April 17th 2018 @ 10:03am
          Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:03am | ! Report

          They’ve given up 45 and 37 points in their last 2 games and are still yet to face an NZ team…

          And the old “the attack will come” logic has never worked for any team in Super Rugby.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 10:09am
          Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:09am | ! Report

          They’ve conceded 40 points the last two weeks, and both to Australian teams, not Kiwi ones…

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