UPDATE: Rugby Australia issues statement on Israel Folau article

By AAP,

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    Israel Folau has revealed he offered to walk away from his Rugby Australia contract in the wake of his controversial comments on homosexuality and that tension remains with the game’s administration over the issue.

    The Wallabies fullback wrote a lengthy piece on sports website Players Voice on Monday night, addressing the fallout from his Instagram message and reiterating his deep religious convictions.

    Folau said that in a meeting last week with RA chief executive Raelene Castle and Waratahs CEO Andrew Hore, he gave his bosses the option to sack him.

    “I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable – that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn’t be worked through – I would walk away from my contract, immediately,” Folau wrote.

    Folau, who is off contract at the end of this season, rubbished claims that the inflammatory social media comments was designed to ensure he got a release from RA so he could move back to rugby league.

    “This is not about money or bargaining power or contracts. It’s about what I believe in and never compromising that, because my faith is far more important to me than my career and always will be,” he said.

    But before Castle attempts to negotiate a new deal for Australia’s most potent attacker before next year’s World Cup in Japan, she will need to resolve the friction Folau still feels remains over the social media saga.

    “I felt Raelene misrepresented my position and my comments, and did so to appease other people, which is an issue I need to discuss with her and others at Rugby Australia,” wrote Folau.

    Rugby Australia statement:

    Rugby Australia will not sanction Israel Folau for his comment posted on a social media platform on April 4.

    Referring to an article written by Folau and published online overnight, Rugby Australia Chief Executive, Raelene Castle said: “In his article, Israel clearly articulated his religious beliefs and why his faith is important to him and has provided context behind his social media comment.

    “In his own words, Israel said that he did not intend to upset people intentionally or bring hurt to the game. We accept Israel’s position.

    “Rugby Australia will use this experience as an opportunity to remind all employees of their obligation to use social media in a respectful way.”

    © AAP 2018

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    The Crowd Says (720)

    • April 17th 2018 @ 1:28am
      Gormon Kinchley said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:28am | ! Report

      I wish he had. Australian rugby has enough problems before it gets involved with a homophobic controversy from its biggest star, who then says he’s being persecuted for stating some of his stupid beliefs.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 4:46am
        mania said | April 17th 2018 @ 4:46am | ! Report

        agree. let the bigot go
        let him have his religion and convictions, in private.
        remove him from rugby and then he wont have this platform to spout his rubbish.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 6:57am
        Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:57am | ! Report

        • April 17th 2018 @ 9:10am
          Tissotime Time said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:10am | ! Report

          Compelling missive

          • Roar Guru

            April 17th 2018 @ 10:04am
            jeznez said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:04am | ! Report

            Was very glad to read that – I wish he’d said some of these things immediately the internet started lighting up.

            A few posters have said they thought his view was likely that all are going to hell – I thought this comment unlikely since he had plenty of time to offer a clarification. Now he has finally spoken.

            I’m pleased to see him being inclusive in the response. I’ll disagree with him that homosexuality is a sin and consider it extremely unlikely that his Almighty is real anyway.

            I’ll always have a bit of a problem with anyone who claims to know over and above all the other myriad beliefs out there which the right one is.

            From reading that he strikes me as having been unthinkingly cruel, rather than lashing out intentionally to single out a particular group. I’m not as appalled at his opinion as I was.

            A big part of the anger and backlash from the public was that he has always appeared such a genuinely good guy.

            Am very glad he has spoken out to supply some context to his views, although I think they are still hurtful to a segment of the population that deserves our support.

            • Roar Rookie

              April 18th 2018 @ 1:53am
              tsuru said | April 18th 2018 @ 1:53am | ! Report

              I largely agree jeznez. It occurs to me that this whole issue SHOULD have been a non-issue. Folau’s religious beliefs are obviously important to him and I think the great majority of people on the Roar accept that. And that’s where it should have stayed – important TO HIM. It’s really not my business and it certainly isn’t important to me what a rugby player’s religious or political beliefs are. So he should have (and should in the future, along with anybody else who gets asked such a question} said “I have strong beliefs on this issue, but I don’t need to share them with anyone.” It baffles me why people would want to rely on a rugby star or any other prominent personality for guidance on religion, politics, or anything outside their obvious area of expertise.

              • Roar Guru

                April 18th 2018 @ 6:17am
                Mick Gold Coast QLD said | April 18th 2018 @ 6:17am | ! Report

                “It baffles me why people would want to rely on a rugby star or any other prominent personality for guidance on religion, politics, or anything outside their obvious area of expertise.”

                … unless it is Bono who just a day or two ago, here, was declared to be “a much better role model” than Israel Folau because he offers his expert view on hurty Federal policy on illegal immigrants and his expert view on evil coal mining ventures which have satisfied stringent Federal and State scrutiny and testing in the courts.

                Too bad if you are a young bloke in the north west of NSW hoping to jag an apprenticeship locally but without a handsome income, a luxurious lifestyle and fame to bring attention to your plea.

              • April 18th 2018 @ 12:59pm
                Phil said | April 18th 2018 @ 12:59pm | ! Report

                I also agree mostly with jeznez,tsuru,but your point about keeping his religion to himself goes against what a lot of these branches of the church preach ie you should spread the word.The Jehovas are a good example,as it part of being in it that you have to go and knock on peoples doors to “enlighten” them.
                Maybe Israel is just following his church guidelines.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 9:35am
          The Battered Slav said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:35am | ! Report

          You go Israel. Don’t let no woman tell you what to do.

          “I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent.” Timothy 2:11

          Also, i think you’re being a little bit light on the sinners Izzy, after all, they aren’t just going to hell:

          “And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them shall surely be put to death’ Leviticus 18:22

          This is the word of God (who just so happens to be a petty, psychopathic busybody intent on killing his own ‘creations’ for the way they were ‘created’).

          …and people wonder why nobody respects religious beliefs these days. Bring on the Inquisition, starting with that heretic Pocock.

          • Roar Guru

            April 17th 2018 @ 9:45am
            Ralph said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:45am | ! Report

            Thank you for this pointless misuse of bible verses, I hope you feel better now.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 10:15am
              The Battered Slav said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:15am | ! Report

              Misuse?

              …so could you please enlighten me as to their correct use?

              This’ll be fun

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 10:43am
                Ralph said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:43am | ! Report

                This is neither the time nor the correct forum to discuss a complex book of over 23,000 verses that spans thousands of years, plumbs the depths of the human heart, was written by multiple cultures and is not intended to be used as a kind of ‘justification machine’ for people searching for a verse or two to back up their predetermined bias or build straw men arguments they can then demolish.

                Sorry to disappoint.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 11:36am
                avonjeff said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:36am | ! Report

                What did Folau Do? That is surely the point. Leave quoting biblical texts to those qualified to do so. The bible is very contentious and if you regard it as the inerrant word of God you might like to extend your studies a little bit.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:24am
                jeznez said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:24am | ! Report

                You’d better tell Israel – it is exactly what he has done. In his own words:

                My response to the question is what I believe God’s plan is for all sinners, according to my understanding of my Bible teachings, specifically 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10:

                Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor the drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:13pm
                Ex force fan said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:13pm | ! Report

                That is the translation from Ancient Greek. If you go back to the Greek it is not so clear. The word homosexual didn’t exist in the Greek. See my post elsewhere for the explanation on how the translation ended up with homosexual when a betting translation would be sexual exploitation that include pimping, pedophiles etc.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:15pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:15pm | ! Report

                yeah the ancient greeks are hardly synonymous with homosexuality,I say with a skewed roll of my eyes.

                ‘Not that theres anything wrong with that’ to quote my favourite tv show of all time

                because theres not

                but to everyone on here thats not the point.

                the point is freedom of religion as a basic human right

                folau can believe that and he can answer theological questions on the subject, even if you don’t agree with him

              • Roar Rookie

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:51pm
                Batdown said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:51pm | ! Report

                Folau’s opinion of gays going to hell is a disgrace. The gay community need to know that such rhetoric is unacceptable to them and their families.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:40pm
                jeznez said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:40pm | ! Report

                Hi Ralph – saw your response to the double post at the bottom of the 400+ comments. Thought I’d shift it up here where it is easier to deal with.

                You said:

                Please jeznez.

                Explain to me the context of this book.

                Describe this kingdom of God that it speaks about.

                What on earth does this old fashioned word sinner mean exactly?

                If the bible also says, “all have sinned” (Romans 3:23) who then can be righteous?

                If no one is righteous then do we conclude no one will inherit anything?

                Otherwise we are quoting and speaking about things we know very little about. Scratching the surface, being led into false conclusions like; my cat has four legs, my dog has four legs, therefore my dog is a cat.

                For mine, I cut Mr Folau some slack, he is a young man who sees in part and is no where near the end of his journey.

                I’m not sure why you are asking me to explain context? I’m just pointing out that Israel seems to be cherry picking verses to support a certain view.

                This seems to be what you are complaining about people doing. We should be on the same side but I feel we have opposing views.

                My take is that Folau’s citing 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 to support a position is the exact ‘justification machine’ to back up their predetermined bias you complain of above.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:43pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:43pm | ! Report

                cheery picking verses

                is he to recite the entire bible?

                every religious leader must not now cite verses without first reading the whole bible out loud?

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:52pm
                Ralph said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:52pm | ! Report

                Jeznez,

                I see now, yes I agree. I am already on record suggesting Mr Folau should try discretion, it is not any sign of weakness. How anyone expects to have intelligent discourse on such complex issues though sound bites and single verses is beyond me.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:57pm
                jeznez said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:57pm | ! Report

                Cheers Ralph.

                Apologies if I have misunderstood your take on this, throughout this sorry saga.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 3:04pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:04pm | ! Report

                I agree, I think I initially thought I misunderstood what Ralph was getting at, but we’re now broadly in agreement.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 3:12pm
                Akari said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:12pm | ! Report

                Thanks jeznez for that as I too can now see where Ralph is/was coming from.

                And thank you Ralph for clarifying.

            • Roar Guru

              April 17th 2018 @ 5:23pm
              Cadfael said | April 17th 2018 @ 5:23pm | ! Report

              Well said, Ralph.

          • Roar Guru

            April 17th 2018 @ 11:36am
            Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:36am | ! Report

            What a Bizarre choice to make a point.
            You have added sexism to the list, which frankly makes the teachings of the bible look even more anachronistic and irrelevant to civilized society. It puts Foolau in a worse light, not better.

            I counter your subservient female passage with one that says that he, as a slave to RA should respect his master’s wishes.

            Unless of course you are being sarcastic, then well done!

            • April 17th 2018 @ 1:05pm
              The Battered Slav said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:05pm | ! Report

              Sure am.

              Got plenty more too.

              Have a quick look at what the bible has to say about menstruation and uncleanliness. Some seriously misogynistic guff right there…

              The fact that anybody takes this fairy tale of murder and abuse seriously at all, let alone picking and choosing which bits are ‘the word of god’ and which are to be conveniently ignored, is absurd when viewed through the lens of rational thought.

              But then again Izzy is a rugby player, a damn good one, so I’m not so sure why everyone is shocked that he doesn’t display the erudite and articulate qualities we look for in scholars, when he is far from that.

              Let the guy voice his prejudices for crying out loud, then let his employer decide whether they think he is damaging or improving their brand. In other words the market will decide, that is our collective god these days.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 1:45pm
                Machpants said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:45pm | ! Report

                Yeah the tattoo one is particularly relevant, having his own surname tattooed onto his chest breaks a lot of rules in the bible

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 1:57pm
                rebel said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:57pm | ! Report

                Thats right Mach, but in the very article that this Roar story is based on, Issy expresses that he is not perfect and has lost his way at times. He’s never claimed anything different.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:18pm
                The Battered Slav said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:18pm | ! Report

                Rebel,

                All those things Izzy says he did, but repented for, are choices. Sure you can choose not to make certain choices. that’s self-evident.

                Boozing, stealing, lying, idolotry, even getting a big gaudy tatt of your own name splashed across your chest, these are all choices people choose to make.

                A person’s sexual attractions are not a choice, yet he (or rather, the people who tell him what to believe, i.e. the Hillsong cult) think such people should repent (i.e. deny their true nature and live a life of lies by denying themselves the ability to express themselves intimately in the way they are driven to do). This is dangerous advice to young impressionable people struggling with their sexuality, and not at all analogous to sorting yourself and no longer boozing/womanising.

                Either way, my point stands, he can say whatever he (or rather his cult leaders) want, but then again his employer can determine whether his moral grandstanding is compatible with their brand. Fair enough on both accounts.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:33pm
                rebel said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:33pm | ! Report

                Slav, I agree sexual orientation is not a choice, never stated otherwise. I am not in anyway a follower of Hillsong either.
                I was pointing out why bring up Issy’s ‘sins’ as means of painting him as a hypocrit. He has never hidden from his failings. it is just another strawman arguement, which there have been countless in regards to this topic.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 4:46pm
                Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 4:46pm | ! Report

                As much as I would like to bundle Hillsong with Assemblies of God, (they are both Pentecostal) but are separate denominations.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 6:30pm
                paul said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:30pm | ! Report

                All these verses would sound crazy if spoken today but not so crazy thousands of years ago. Cultural change is vast you gotta understand how things worked then.
                Slavery was very different. it was not captured people but people who had nowhere to turn due to no welfare state so attached themselves to a family – the bible actually encourages and empowers slaves. The early church let slaves be leaders.
                Tattoos were a symbol of being a pagan. Christians were not pagans. I could go on. But just saying “this is crazy” doesn’t work. Much of what you believe to be wise now will seem weird to your grandkids. Give it 2000 years and it will seem crazy. You gotta understand context.

              • April 18th 2018 @ 1:06am
                Sam said | April 18th 2018 @ 1:06am | ! Report

                I completed Religious Studies at University many years ago and am a non practising high-church Anglican. I think it is very important to highlight the complexity of the bible. The Old Testament and New Testament carry very different messages. The OT speaks in places from the perspective of the hebrew judaeic monotheism and a vengeful deity. At the same time it highlights a gentler tone in other places. The NT carries the parables of Jesus and his story. It’s reasonably consistent with the “do unto others as you’re have them do unto you” vibe. Some of it is meant to be read literally and some of it definitely not to be taken literally. It takes a lifetime of study, not just of the bible but of bible scholars and biblical philosophers to understand how to read and interpret it. We still then need to understand how different denominations of Christianity agree and disagree on scripture. Remember also that the Bible was not written by 1 person, it was collated by comittee eg Corinthians is St Paul’s view of Jesus’ teachings. At the end of the day Israel Folau must accept the impact his words have on others. It is the responsibility of his teachers and the elders of his church to teaching him perspective that comes with age. He was baited into responding and could have simply said “my beliefs on this topic are already well known”.

        • April 18th 2018 @ 9:17am
          Gormon Kinchley said | April 18th 2018 @ 9:17am | ! Report

          I had read it before then. Doesn’t change my views on the guy.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 6:59am
        Redsfan1 said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:59am | ! Report

        That’s funny that you call him homophobic yet feel discrimination against his religion is fine. Hypocrisy at its worst.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 8:08am
          lesterlike said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:08am | ! Report

          Discrimination against religious bigots is fair game when they attack people on race, gender (i.e things people are born with). RA should have thrown him to the curb.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 8:19am
          Rugbyfan86 said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:19am | ! Report

          so Folau throws stones at people. People throw them back and he cries persecution. What a tosser.

          Take your bigotry elsewhere Folau

          • April 17th 2018 @ 8:43am
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:43am | ! Report

            • April 17th 2018 @ 8:53am
              Rugbyfan86 said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:53am | ! Report

              Can you stop telling everyone to read that as though it’s going to fix our obviously wrong views. I’ve read it. I doesn’t change a thing.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 9:25am
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:25am | ! Report

                you havent read it

                if you did you would see he isnt homophobic at all

              • April 17th 2018 @ 12:11pm
                Phil said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:11pm | ! Report

                Don’t worry RT,you will never change some people’s ideas once they have decided on something like this.I thought it was an excellent article by Izzy and can’t help but admire him even if I don’t agree with his views.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:05pm
                aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:05pm | ! Report

                Nonsense. He is just using an incorrect biblical justification for his homophobia. All gays deserve to go to hell unless they repent if their gayness. If that isn’t homophobic nothing is.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 6:45pm
                Jokerman said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:45pm | ! Report

                It’s great that they allow net services on the ward.

              • Roar Rookie

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:55pm
                Batdown said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:55pm | ! Report

                Yes but making his opinion known that a fathers son or daughter who is gay is destined to go to hell by god is wrong. Is this a role model our children should follow? I say NO.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:40am
                Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:40am | ! Report

                So he is ok with homosexuals but believes that they are gong to hell because his cult has told him so.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:40pm
                Christo the Daddyo said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:40pm | ! Report

                Come on RTT – just because someone says they’re not homophobic doesn’t mean that’s the truth. Surely you can’t be that naive?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:19pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:19pm | ! Report

                depends on what homophobia is

                hes not calling for exclusion on this earth and he advocate gay rugby.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 10:46am
          Jack Russell said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:46am | ! Report

          What’s wrong with discrimination based on religion? Religion is a choice, mostly based on utterly fictional and abhorrent ideas. No different to discrimination against neonazis or communists.
          If you want to find hypocrisy, look no further than Qantas, who considered dropping their association with RA yet happily signed deals with Emirates. Owned by a government that openly wants to persecute homosexuals.

          • Roar Guru

            April 17th 2018 @ 11:57am
            Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:57am | ! Report

            Well to start with, discriminating against a religious group is illegal. They are protected under Commonwealth Law.
            But voicing your opinion on their and their members practices, views and teachings are fair game, have at it!
            You can’t petition the government to ban their organization.
            You can petition the government to ban practices of their organization.

            Hypocrisy doesn’t make you wrong, much like Folau’s desecrated flesh (tattoos) it does dilute the strength of the message though.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 2:20pm
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:20pm | ! Report

              the Aust Human Rights Commission would beg to differ

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:22pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:22pm | ! Report

                No. It wouldn’t.

                Rather than try and understand the legislation you’ve just cherry picked a sentence that you think suits your view.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:33pm
                Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:33pm | ! Report

                I made a lot of points here, you will need to be more specific about which one I got wrong.
                If you think freedom of religion allows you to break the law, you are sadly mistaken.
                If you think the government haven’t banned religious practices including genital mutilation of minors, you are sadly mistaken.
                The religions weren’t banned.
                If you think I can’t speak out about those practices, you are sadly mistaken.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:40pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:40pm | ! Report

                you can not have religious freedom and specifically oppose some teachings

                sorry that is not religious freedom

                breaking the law id different.

                Folau has merely answered someones theological question, that is not breaking the law

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:41pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:41pm | ! Report

                Then we don’t have religious freedom.

                Because that can be the case.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 3:05pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:05pm | ! Report

                AHRC say we do have religious freedom as part of human rights law

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 3:27pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:27pm | ! Report

                It also says there are limitations.

                You said if there are limitations we don’t have free speech. By your definition, we do not have free speech.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 4:46pm
                Mushi said | April 17th 2018 @ 4:46pm | ! Report

                We don’t have completely free speech, never had and never will

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 4:51pm
                Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 4:51pm | ! Report

                AHRC also state that you can’t Advocate for or insight violence or discrimination against a protected group. This takes precedence over free speech. So no, we don’t truly have freedom of speech, and that is a good thing.

                The AHRC have a lot to say about the child abuse built into some religious doctrine as well.

                So, No true religious freedom either, also a good thing.

                Or RT, are you going to advocate for right to child abuse as well?

              • April 18th 2018 @ 2:47am
                Milan said | April 18th 2018 @ 2:47am | ! Report

                Stop speaking nonsense for goodness sake man.

                The guy is homophobic by definition because he thinks being gay is sinning. He is using bible terminology to justify it. Not acceptable, absolutely not acceptable.

                If that is what you want our children to be brought up believing then I feel for you and all your cohorts. I personally will be teaching mine that inclusion and respect are non negotiable and that if they want to judge somebody then to do so on the cleanness of their actions and nothing else.

                Interesting that ‘greed’ is one of the sins.

                So is this the same greedy folau who left the nrl (which he had always dreamt of playing) for bigger bucks to play an enemy code in afl?

                Is this also the same greedy folau who every time his aru contact is coming up for renewal has his agent flout his name around the nrl and overseas rugby in order to extort every last penny (on top of his already massive contract) out of the aru?

                Don’t worry aru and all you sympathisers of folau. All that matters to you is that folau resigns and plays in the World Cup which i guarantee will happen. But don’t you worry about the tough time that gay people will have to suffer because of your bigotry.

                Now go take a running jump the lot of you

              • April 18th 2018 @ 1:55pm
                Brisvegas said | April 18th 2018 @ 1:55pm | ! Report

                Milan your opinion is important

      • Roar Guru

        April 17th 2018 @ 7:37am
        PeterK said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:37am | ! Report

        he clearly is not homophobic, read the entire transcript

        • April 17th 2018 @ 8:21am
          Rugbyfan86 said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:21am | ! Report

          He’s homophobic.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 8:43am
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:43am | ! Report

            read the article he clearly isn’t

            how do you explain his endorsement of gay and lesbian rugby?

            • Roar Guru

              April 17th 2018 @ 8:57am
              Wal said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:57am | ! Report

              I agree he clarifies things in the article very well.
              2 Points
              Why has he taken so long to effectively say God plan is for all Sinners to go to Hell unless they repent.
              And in the meantime, the original comments have caused division and potential hurt.
              Bigotted or not it is a very insular view of the world to condemn anyone for not following in your belief system.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 9:08am
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:08am | ! Report

                is it not understood by everybody in society that christians believe all sinners need to repent?

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 9:49am
                Ralph said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:49am | ! Report

                Wal, can I suggest to you that following Christ is not a system of rules and is not hinged on spouting the correct or approved set of beliefs or opinions. At its heart it is entirely a relational thing.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 9:55am
                Wal said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:55am | ! Report

                Nope, there are many houses of the Christian church and some don’t even believe in Hell,
                but in the context of the tweet, he was actually replying to a specific group without any broader explanation. Something RA has asked he does in the future.
                The size of the reaction would also suggest that many people either didn’t take his meaning as that or did understand it either. So why take 3 weeks to clarify. In the meantime tweeting about persecution?

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 10:05am
                Wal said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:05am | ! Report

                Sorry Ralph was replying to RT2

                My view is this is the best and most loving version of Christianity. Where people define their faith in actions and love rather than a prescribed doctrine.
                People like the Wayside Chapel.
                Jarrod McKenna
                Father Chris Riley

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 10:37am
                Ralph said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:37am | ! Report

                Good on you Wal, no apologies required.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:16pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

                Archbishop Desmond Tutu is another extremely inspiring human being from what I’ve read of him.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 1:22pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:22pm | ! Report

                Tutu is very much in love with rugby also from what I have heard.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:23pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:23pm | ! Report

                they all still believe sinners need to repent

                im not saying what is sin, that i dont care about, because i don’t believe any of it

                im just sayin, that christian faith is founded on the fact that we all sin.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:52pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:52pm | ! Report

                Really? Before you were claiming all true Christians had to believe that being gay was a sin.

                If you no longer believe this, then that’s great. Check out Desmond Tutu’s views if you want an example of a Christian who clearly doesn’t believe being gay is a sin.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:57pm
                DNZ said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:57pm | ! Report

                Took so long because his agent had to find some crafty PR company to develop a strategy to mitigate the fallout of this situation. I am fine with him holding those beliefs, but religion is really more of an excuse for holding an opinion than a thoughtful justification. This is clearly about brand protection at this point in time as the fallout got bigger and bigger. Again that is fine, but anyone who can jump between LDS and a random pentacostal denomination like the Assemblies of God cannot hold such deeply found beliefs that they will never change.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:58pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:58pm | ! Report

                yes if they are fair dinkum because it is written in black and white, otherwise they are making a bit of a mockery of their own religious text

                i’ve never said i agree with any of it btw. its all nonsense.

                thats not the point though

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:04pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:04pm | ! Report

                So Rugby Tragic Too, are you seriously claiming that Archbishop Desmond Tutu isn’t fair dinkum in his Christianity?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:05pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:05pm | ! Report

                Desmond Tutu is a great man

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:07pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:07pm | ! Report

                Doesn’t answer my question, Rugby Tragic Too. Do you claim that Desmond Tutu isn’t ‘fair dinkum’ in his beliefs about Christianity because he disagrees that gay people go to hell?

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:30pm
                Wal said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:30pm | ! Report

                Even the current Pope only defines gay sex as a sin. Being Gay is not a sin in itself.
                Since marriage equality, all my gay friend can join me in the sin-free marital bliss!!

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:34pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:34pm | ! Report

                I am no expert but i believe since his daughter left his church for her gay wedding he has come out dead against homophobia but at the same time he refused to bless his own daughters gay wedding so not to embarass his church. He too is conflicted on a very complicated situation.

                He is also retired from leadership of the church for ateast a decade by now i’d imagine.

                One thing is for sure, religion and modern society are conflicted. Its nobody’s fault and no 1 man has the answer.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:34pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:34pm | ! Report

                Thanks for answering the question. Please don’t obfuscate the issue, I didn’t ask what his Church believed, but what he personally believed.

                There is nothing to suggest his own views on gay people are conflicted. Just that his views are different from his church.

                Utterly irrelevant that he has retired for a decade. It does not change the fact that he is still a Christian former Archbishop and is definitely a ‘fair dinkum’ Christian.

                It’s good that you’ve just admitted that devout Christians don’t have to have the same views as Folau though. That’s a start.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:45pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:45pm | ! Report

                we are assuming he is still a devout christian?

                it doesn’t sound like it to me

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:48pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:48pm | ! Report

                Aaaaah, and there it is. You’re claiming a retired Archbishop (due to age) isn’t a devout Christian because that means you can maintain your position that Folau’s is the only position a devout Christian can have.

                Interesting “logic”.

                With that comment you’ve convinced me that it is never worth replying to anything you have to say ever again.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:56pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:56pm | ! Report

                im saying Desmond Tutu himself came out and basically said he can’t worship the god of his church becasue god is homophobic

                if you read the bible and follow it as the word of god there is no other way to view gay people. sorry its in their balck and white. we should not be judging folau anymore than any other devout christian that follows the word of god.

                Now i recognise some christians ignore that bit, good on them, thats what i’d do.

                but this isn;t about you or me

                this is much larger

                freedom of religion is a fundamental part of a free democratic society

              • April 17th 2018 @ 3:22pm
                Akari said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:22pm | ! Report

                Well done, Fionn.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 5:44pm
                double agent said | April 17th 2018 @ 5:44pm | ! Report

                “Why has he taken so long to effectively say God plan is for all Sinners to go to Hell unless they repent.”

                It’s not that long ago all Christians believed this.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 2:56pm
              HarryRugby said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:56pm | ! Report

              RTT, I have yet to meet a Christian that is not judgemental of others but oblivious (or it’s ok for me) to their own shortcomings. Not a lot to worry about for gays going to Hell – no evidence that Hell exists
              The bible is said to be written by many people over hundreds of years- sounds like Chinese whispers to me.
              Every morning I walk down to the big trees at the bottom of my garden to talk with the fairies. That, I find very relaxing (especially with coffee in hand) and strongly suspect that those seeking a higher being are missing out .
              I firmly believe that my fairy tale is better than your fairy tale (Bible)

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:58pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:58pm | ! Report

                yes agree with everything you say

                except when you call it my bible

                i think its all nonsense

          • April 17th 2018 @ 8:47am
            Jameswm said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:47am | ! Report

            He treats gay men as the same sinners as the others mentioned in that biblical passage, and all sinners must repent. He’s no more homophobic than he is anti drunks.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 9:31am
          aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:31am | ! Report

          Saying gays will deservedly go to hell just for being gay is homophobic. The article just dresses up the homophobia to make it appear more palatable.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 10:16am
            The Battered Slav said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:16am | ! Report

            yep, massive fig leaf, to use a biblically inspired term

        • April 17th 2018 @ 1:08pm
          aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:08pm | ! Report

          Yeah sure, he loves gay people, but they deserve to go to hell just by virtue of being gay. Because thats what his wonderful and just god supposedly says. Not homophobic at all. Oh wait……

      • April 17th 2018 @ 10:42am
        Brisvegas said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:42am | ! Report

        So IF is prepared to walk away but RA didn’t pursue this option that would resolve ongoing media space including sponsors the question should be WHY NOT RA???

        • Roar Guru

          April 17th 2018 @ 12:05pm
          Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:05pm | ! Report

          My takeaway from Raylene’e statement is that the “discussions” were merely a first step, one of many, and she wasn’t too happy with the outcome.

          Watch this space for Folau being blindsided by a Queen’s Side Castle, he might find himself in check mate sooner than you think.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 1:10pm
            John said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:10pm | ! Report

            The worst they could do is fire him and that isn’t really going to affect him if he is prepared to walk.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 9:10pm
            Chris Love said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:10pm | ! Report

            Lol @ checkmate. Australian Rugby would be the only loser in this. While no one is bigger than the game. Australian Rugby needs Izzy a whole lot more than Izzy needs Australian Rugby.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 12:13pm
        In Brief said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:13pm | ! Report

        Apart from the fact it wasn’t homophobic

    • April 17th 2018 @ 1:58am
      Malo said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:58am | ! Report

      Well done Izzy don’t let these incompetent idiots tell you what to believe. You are worth more to Australia, probably about 15 pts per game, so they will grovel all over ya. Well done. Raelene go back to the doggies, that’s right they are stuffed now due to your incompetence on salary cap issues. Go to nz.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 3:15pm
        HarryRugby said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:15pm | ! Report

        Malo, not very constructive.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 3:29pm
        Akari said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:29pm | ! Report

        Well done. Raelene go back to the doggies, that’s right they are stuffed now due to your incompetence on salary cap issues. Go to nz.

        Wikipedia states, Castle was born in Wagga Wagga, New South Wales, Australia.

        Might have been best to do a bit research here, Malo.

    • April 17th 2018 @ 2:05am
      Keith of WA said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:05am | ! Report

      And of course there’s always more to a story…..

      So…. even the article above is written to portray him in a manner in conflict to what he actually wrote….

      It’s worth taking the time to actually read it….

      • Roar Guru

        April 17th 2018 @ 7:38am
        PeterK said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:38am | ! Report

        most of the dog whistlers calling him homophobic etc won’t bother, facts get in the way of their hate and labeling

        • April 17th 2018 @ 9:12am
          JL said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:12am | ! Report

          I don’t care what he believes or if he is or isn’t homophobic.
          Just don’t make comments like that on a public forum. Easy as that.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 9:26am
            Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:26am | ! Report

            he can’t answer someones question on social media?

            ever heard of the human right of religious freedom?

            • Roar Guru

              April 17th 2018 @ 9:49am
              Ralph said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:49am | ! Report

              There is such a thing as discretion.

            • Roar Guru

              April 17th 2018 @ 12:52pm
              Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:52pm | ! Report

              Have you ever actually investigated what right he has under Australian law?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:59pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:59pm | ! Report

                Article 18 of the ICCPR states:

                Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.
                No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice….

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:01pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

                If he wants to build a church and tell those that choose to worship in it, that gays are going to hell, he’s free to do so.

                That doesn’t protect his right to make public comments though.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:09pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:09pm | ! Report

                TWAS

                ‘This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in PUBLIC or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and TEACHING.

                He is allowed to TEACH others in PUBLIC

                in this case he answered someones question (teaching) in public

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:13pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:13pm | ! Report

                He is allowed to teach others who submit themselves to teaching.

                That means he is publicly allowed to have a church. ie. not in hiding.

                It doesn’t mean he can publicly preach things to anybody in the street.

                No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice

                Surely telling people they are going to hell would be coercion…

              • April 17th 2018 @ 3:02pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:02pm | ! Report

                TWAS hate to break it to you but he answered somebody’s question

                you say ‘He is allowed to teach others who submit themselves to teaching ‘

                yep excatly, you’ve just talked yourself into stating that what he did was perfectly okay

                that person submitted to his teaching by asking him a theological question.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 12:51pm
          soapit said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:51pm | ! Report

          peter just because its a label doesnt mean it has only one definition. i would say that someone who believes a group are doing something wrong for being born a certain way shows prejudice against them even tho he doesnt act on it and would therefore qualify.

          certainly there are worse examples out there though and i know you agree it doesnt do much for the debate

        • April 17th 2018 @ 1:21pm
          aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:21pm | ! Report

          PeterK, calling Folau’s views homophbic does not equal hate. His views are, objectively, homophobic. If you are gay you deserve to go to hell.

          Pity you don’t take your own counsel about not labelling or insulting others.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 5:36pm
            Reverse Wheel said | April 17th 2018 @ 5:36pm | ! Report

            Are we still here? I’m not sure how he could have been any clearer but you just don’t care, you want to push your own barrow and to hell with truth.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 7:16pm
              timber said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:16pm | ! Report

              So to get this straight, the line is that Folau is not homophobic, the imaginary God he worships is the actual homophobe and Folau has no choice but to cede to his wishes?
              Freud would be impressed with that level of duplicity.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 8:02pm
              aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:02pm | ! Report

              The truth, Reverse, is that IF was clear in the article that gay people are egregious sinners who deserve to go to hell just for being themselves, ie living as the gay people that they are. No matter if they are otherwise saintlier than Mother Theresa, their activity in a loving consensual relationship consigns them to hell.

              That is a homophobic view, and it is Folau’s view. For all the hundreds of posts you have made on the topic, you keep avoiding that reality.

              You get quite abusive and offensive if people do not accept your arguments. The fault is actually in your arguments, they are logically flawed and unpersuasive.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 7:38pm
          aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:38pm | ! Report

          Says the person who labels others as dog whistlerd and haters.

    • April 17th 2018 @ 2:13am
      brian said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:13am | ! Report

      oh gawd, the second coming of ill-fated rugby will find this article soon.

    • Roar Guru

      April 17th 2018 @ 2:35am
      The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:35am | ! Report

      I recommend everyone to read the column that Folau has written. It is a great read and even if I don’t agree with his views, I have a lot more respect for him after reading his take on this “saga”.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 6:41am
        i miss the force said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:41am | ! Report

        you think HE wrote it?

        • April 17th 2018 @ 6:49am
          Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:49am | ! Report

          If HE didn’t? who did?

          • April 17th 2018 @ 7:22am
            i miss the force said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:22am | ! Report

            his manager. ever heard of a ghost writer?

            • April 17th 2018 @ 7:26am
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:26am | ! Report

              he hired a ghost writer to write an article?

              you are some numpty

              • April 17th 2018 @ 8:11am
                Kangajets said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:11am | ! Report

                Rugby tragic

                Naivety at its finest, if you don’t think sports people use ghost writers .

              • April 17th 2018 @ 8:44am
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:44am | ! Report

                not for a few paragraphs they don’t

                its not his autobiography

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:03pm
                Crackerjack said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

                For a man who is religious RRT…you treat people on this forum like crap…hence people don’t believe in religion being the answer. Your living proof of that! So much disdain and transparent hate.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:08pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:08pm | ! Report

                im not religious

        • April 17th 2018 @ 8:16am
          aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:16am | ! Report

          Maybe his pastor? It reads like a sermon.

        • Roar Guru

          April 17th 2018 @ 12:14pm
          Timbo (L) said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:14pm | ! Report

          What is the beef?
          If he got a media professional to write this on his behalf or at least proof read it, it will be the smartest thing he has done in the last few weeks.
          If he wrote it himself, well done, it doesn’t read much like his media persona, but it is a lot easier to write cohesively with the benefit of review and edit than speaking on the other end of a microphone.

          • Roar Guru

            April 17th 2018 @ 12:34pm
            The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:34pm | ! Report

            (…) it is a lot easier to write cohesively with the benefit of review and edit than speaking on the other end of a microphone.

            Agree Timbo (L). Night and day. Anyone can try to work hard at the gym for an hour (and be totally focused on that) and then try to say something smart and thoughtful right after that and they shall see. As an extra bonus, let someone ask you some pretty daft questions and see how smart your answers will be.

            Not saying that most sports people are intellectual giants, but they rarely have any kind chance to express themselves in an intelligent way and most of them a very aware that anything they say that is just a millimeter outside the normal circle of cliches is at risk creating negative and unwanted headlines.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 12:38pm
              Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:38pm | ! Report

              Yeah, I agree with this.

              Anyway, as I said I would hope that it wasn’t ghost written by someone as I just like the thought of the words being substantially their own, but what is important is that it seems that these words genuinely reflect Folau’s feelings, and he got the chance to get his side of the story out. I agree with both of you that it would be much harder to do that in front of a microphone.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:08pm
                jameswm said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:08pm | ! Report

                He’s signed off on those words being his own by publishing them. I don’t really care to what extent it was written by him. If he got someone to help him write it, to help him articulate his ideas better – I’ve got no issue.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:12pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:12pm | ! Report

                Fair, James. You’ve convinced me.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 6:42am
        Daveski said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:42am | ! Report

        Ahh yes but do you reckon he really wrote it ? I have my doubts just from the one small passage above. “Untenable” doesn’t sound like an Izzy Folau word if you know what I mean.

        • April 17th 2018 @ 7:47am
          Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:47am | ! Report

          im sorry but your comment smacks of racism.

          a pacific islander doesn’t have a vocabulary? honestly your the one that should be hauled into RA

          • April 17th 2018 @ 7:54am
            Neil Back said | April 17th 2018 @ 7:54am | ! Report

            You need to calm down buddy. I don’t see how you can automatically assume this is a racist comment.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 9:48am
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:48am | ! Report

              ‘doesn’t sound like an izzy folau word if you know what i mean’

              i think it is clear what he means!

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:36pm
                The Battered Slav said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:36pm | ! Report

                The hell are you talking about?

                It doesn’t sound like an Izzy Folau word because he can barely string a sentence together.

                Why? Because he probably isn’t that bright, not because he’s Polynesian.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 8:02am
            Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:02am | ! Report

            What a disgusting allegation, Rugby Tragic. I cannot claim to read Daveski’s mind, but I do know that in his comment he referred to Folau the individual only and not to Pacific Islanders in general. I think you should apologise.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 8:21am
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:21am | ! Report

              Methinks thoust protest too much sir!

              its pretty obvious what he was eluding too and you know it

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:27am
                jeznez said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:27am | ! Report

                alluding

              • Roar Rookie

                April 17th 2018 @ 12:48pm
                Sage said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:48pm | ! Report

                Actually, it’s where your thoughts first went obviously. Perhaps your protest was a bit indicative. My first thought was that it related to his intellect and the use of the word untenable and I see the point. Virtually every prepared media release is not written by the actual person, particularly in sport. Words are powerful and have to be used judiciously, Isyy now knows that better than most

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:47pm
                Christo the Daddyo said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:47pm | ! Report

                Seems to me that he was simply referring to the fact that Folau is a professional footballer. And the reality is that many footballers can barely string two words together, let alone write a piece as eloquent as this one.

                But interesting you went straight to racism. Probably says a fair bit about you don’t you think?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:01pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

                never heard anyone read any other players article and it be automatically assumed to be a ghost writers.

                take Clyde Rathbone, when he was writing for the roar, don’t recall anyone jumping to any such conclusion.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 2:35pm
                Wal said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:35pm | ! Report

                Nope, but I might ask the question if it was written by Brad Thorn, Wayne Bennet or Geoff Toovey.
                Not necessarily questioning their intellect just words like untenable don’t seem part of their vernacular.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:47pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:47pm | ! Report

                Wal fair enough

                i’ve always found Folau articulate…

                curious

              • April 17th 2018 @ 3:21pm
                HarryRugby said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:21pm | ! Report

                You win the prize for most crap written in one day.
                Question. Will you go to hell for writing crap?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 8:37pm
                Adsa said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:37pm | ! Report

                Harry has a point Tragic, you have written the most crap in a day, your not Michael Essa by chance?

              • Roar Rookie

                April 18th 2018 @ 10:01am
                Sage said | April 18th 2018 @ 10:01am | ! Report

                Well spotted Adsa. Has a very similar odor I agree

          • April 17th 2018 @ 9:03am
            Daveski said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:03am | ! Report

            Nothing to do with his racial background or culture RTT and everything to do with my observations of Israel the linguist in the numerous interviews he’s given over the years. Maybe he’s just one of those people far more eloquent in writing than in spoken word.

            And I’m a big fan of that website and it’s published a lot of really interesting articles of late but when you call yourself Players Voice geez you want to make sure it’s 100% the words of the player in question.

            • April 17th 2018 @ 9:51am
              Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:51am | ! Report

              im sorry but what you are saying can only be construed one way

              folau is articulate

              hes clearly written this himself

              it sounds like you are taking a racial stereotype to form your opinion

              • April 17th 2018 @ 10:07am
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:07am | ! Report

                No, it can be construed multiple way – neither Neil or myself interpreted it the way you did.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 11:07am
                Daveski said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:07am | ! Report

                RTT if you want to fling accusations that’s fine. You’re obviously hyper-sensitive around this. As I said, it was an observation on the individual.

                Let me put it this way. I could totally see Tatafu Polota Nau using the phrase “this situation is untenable”.

                Izzy? Not so much.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 12:50pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 12:50pm | ! Report

                Daveski if that is the case than I apologise for misinterpreting what you meant.

                Israel Folau is articulate and a very thoughtful person.

                He wrote that article

                i’m sure he had someone read over it as anyone would but that was from his heart.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:05pm
                Daveski said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:05pm | ! Report

                Thanks RTT. I agree the piece comes across as sincere and personal.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:14pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:14pm | ! Report

                No problem again I apologise, I now see what you meant.

                It’s funny you mention Polota Nau because it was a debate I had with someone many roars ago that has made me a bit sensitive to stereotypes of intelligence on some cultural backgrounds.

                I remember someone stating Polota-Nau was just another ‘meathead’ essentially, obviously that perosn had assumed as such based on his cultural background, and of course Polota-Nau is a bit of a nerd (for want f a better term).

                So that may explain how I jumped to that conclusion.

                Sorry mate

              • Roar Rookie

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:44pm
                Batdown said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:44pm | ! Report

                Folau’s hate speech about Gay’s going to hell is despicable. He should be ashamed of his comments. He is not.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:37pm
                The Battered Slav said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:37pm | ! Report

                Folau is articulate, hahahahahahahaha

                I’m not sure you know what articulate means if you think this word describes Folau.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 2:49pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:49pm | ! Report

                yes i guess listening to him speak in sentences should have set me straight?

        • Roar Guru

          April 17th 2018 @ 8:26am
          The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:26am | ! Report

          Daveski

          For sure someone has edited the text, but seriously, that is common practice even when the greatest writers in the world publish something also.

          • April 17th 2018 @ 8:30am
            Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:30am | ! Report

            There’s editing and there’s editing.

            Sort of like ‘the truth’…

            https://youtu.be/-Nc88_ZEfxg

            • Roar Guru

              April 17th 2018 @ 8:52am
              The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 8:52am | ! Report

              So what are you saying Fionn?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 9:02am
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:02am | ! Report

                I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it was ghost written. It is clearly crisis control, and if I were in his position I think I’d get someone experienced in crisis control speeches/articles to write it. And it definitely does have a different tone to what we hear from him in interviews.

                Not that I doubt the honesty of that message. He probably truly believes every word.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 9:21am
                Brisvegas said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:21am | ! Report

                Daveski your comment smacks of racism you know what I mean

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 9:30am
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:30am | ! Report

                To me, that is perfectly fine. It is his thoughts, his story, and his name under the column. And I think it is obvious that Izzy has been involved from start to finish when this text was written/produced.

                I have been working with editing for many years, and I think some people would be shocked if they saw the raw manuscripts some very famous writers delivers.
                I would compare it to songwriting. If you listen to the first raw demos and compare them to finished result (when other musicians, producers, sound engineers, friend et al have delivered input) it is usually something that sounds pretty different. Does that make the songwriter a fraud? Absolutely not. Without the idea, the spark, the feeling, the story, there would have been no song at all.

                I am not so sure that I would put Izzy’s text under crisis management label, He is not exactly defusing the situation IMHO. To me, it seems he taking an even firmer stand (and gives many reasons why he is doing that).

              • April 17th 2018 @ 9:47am
                Reverse Wheel said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:47am | ! Report

                He would have written it and had it reviewed and edited by others. This whole discussion is really just nothing more than a feeble mud-slinging exercise by people struggling to maintain the rage.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 9:52am
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 9:52am | ! Report

                Neutral, I like Daveski’s comment of: ‘when you call yourself Players Voice geez you want to make sure it’s 100% the words of the player in question.’

                Reverse wheel, I have no rage whatsoever, but good try.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 10:25am
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:25am | ! Report

                ‘when you call yourself Players Voice geez you want to make sure it’s 100% the words of the player in question.’

                I am, sorry Fionn (and you know I respect you and enjoy chatting with you) but now you are splitting atoms in absurdum. As said, pretty much all texts that are published on any kind of professional platform has been “touched” by more than one person. This has been going for hundreds of years and is accepted by almost all under the sun as the best way to communicate/tell stories.

                Why should we have a different set of standards when judging Izzy than pretty much all winners of the Nobel Price in literature? Should masters like Hemingway, Pinter, Grass et al be disqualified due to other people have helped them create the final result?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 10:29am
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:29am | ! Report

                I think there is a difference between editing of work and significant re-writes. I am always annoyed when I read a self-proclaimed ‘autobiography’ only to find out that it was ghost written or there was a collaborative writer.

                For all I know it could have been primarily Izzy’s writing, but as I said, it is very different in tone to how he speaks.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 10:51am
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:51am | ! Report

                Of course, there are different levels of editing, but you and Daveski “demanded” 100 percent “own words”.

                The main thing for me is that Izzy has communicated and he has done it rather well. As said before, I don’t agree with him, but I do understand him and his choices better now. If someone else helped him to achieve this, I actually salute him for being humble enough to realize that if he tried it all by himself chances are that neither I or anyone else (who disagrees with him) would understand from where he is coming.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 11:18am
                Daveski said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:18am | ! Report

                Neutral I agree and I’m happy to re-assess and admit I probably didn’t see the forest for the trees and got too hung up on whether it’s truly his writing it not. I’ve read the article and agree it explains his position very well with some very interesting background context.

                He’s entitled to his opinion. The article explains the origin of the opinion. He might want to be a bit more judicious in what he says publicly while he’s still playing and being paid well to do so.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:53am
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:53am | ! Report

                All good Daveski.

                To be fair, before I started to work in the media and publishing business (I did not start as an editor, takes years of in-house work before one can do that) I had no clue how things worked and I was not exactly happy or comfortable when I found out that my texts should be “touched” by others (like many other overconfident young guns I thought I was so special and needed no help from others). That all changed when I had my first big cover story published, hence I worked with an editor who made me look very good and skillful. There was no way I could have produced that kind of quality by myself.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 10:58am
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 10:58am | ! Report

                Fair point. 100% isn’t required, and I wouldn’t know the exact percentage. But I do think that the writing should be substantially the player’s own. Editing should perhaps be limited to primarily punctuation and sentence structure, and correcting incorrect words.

                I do agree that Izzy has communicated his feelings well, regardless of my feelings about them, and it is good that he had a way to make his voice heard and explain his position, as opposed to having to do it via quotes/misquotes in the media, or a speech where he may not feel comfortable doing so.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 11:18am
                Reverse Wheel said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:18am | ! Report

                People write differently from how they speak. All the time. I don’t get why you’re spending so much time on this Fionn. You have zero evidence that he didn’t write it. It just seems like you have an axe to grind.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 11:20am
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:20am | ! Report

                I’m trying to avoid doing more thesis readings.

                To be honest, I wish that this had all blown over as now I’m worried that he might leave the sport. It would have been better if had agreed not to publish any more material. I do reckon the guy who asked him on twitter was probably trying to bait him though, even though Folau thought he was genuinely looking for guidance.

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 11:35am
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:35am | ! Report

                As always Fionn, I enjoy discussing all things in life with you.

                Here is a little story from editing world: Not a master by any means, but a very famous writer like Dan Brown (The DaVinci Code) hardly write one single word in his books. He has a full team of writers and researchers working for him. He is more a project & production manager. And he far from the only international bestseller working like that.

                It might sound absurd but in many ways are sportspeople more honest how their autobiographies have been produced hence they are very open that other people have helped them to write the book.

                And as a final note, the relationship between a writer and an editor can at best be similar to the relationship between a tight drummer and bass player and the stars on vocals and guitar. If they “feel” and “feed” of each other, the final product can be extremely good and spectacular.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:00pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:00pm | ! Report

                Yeah, look, you’re right, and I understand that writing and editing is a collaborative process.

                I still hope that the writing was substantially Izzy’s own and merely touched up by an editor as the words seem to have more power and meaning to me that way.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:16pm
                aussikiwi said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

                How do you know he wrote it? Not that it matters much, but you seem obsessed with the question.

                The piece merely confirms Folau’s indoctrinated, institutional homophobia. If you are gay you deserve to go to hell just for being gay. That is homophobia at its finest.

                Throwing around casual accusations of racism doesnt alter this fact but reflects badly on you.

              • April 18th 2018 @ 5:10am
                GoGWS said | April 18th 2018 @ 5:10am | ! Report

                Sorry for being oendantic but I prefer ‘anti-gay’ to describe people like Folau. I doubt he has a phobia regarding homosexuality let’s be honest. People can be anti something and have their reasons, however ill-conceived or plain wrong the my may be. I know people throw around the label homophobic these days but I think most of the people it’s applied to are just anti-gay rather than having a phobia.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:25pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

                Fionn for all we know he wrote every last word of it

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 1:30pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:30pm | ! Report

                Why?

                Because a repetitive Folau fanboy insists he did?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 1:35pm
                Fionn said | April 17th 2018 @ 1:35pm | ! Report

                Rugby Tragic, you’re right. Personally, I hope he did write every word. Even if he didn’t though, I’ve been convinced it doesn’t matter.

              • April 17th 2018 @ 5:16pm
                Nico’larse said | April 17th 2018 @ 5:16pm | ! Report

                OR for all we know, it was 100% ghost written. But why does it really matter?
                Izzy put his name to it and hence regardless of who actually penned it, the words represent his beliefs on the matter.
                The bigger question surely is “will anything more come of this?”

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 3:24pm
                rebel said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:24pm | ! Report

                You are calling someone else a repetitive fanboy?

              • Roar Guru

                April 17th 2018 @ 3:27pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 17th 2018 @ 3:27pm | ! Report

                When has my retort been repeatedly typing “read this”?

              • April 17th 2018 @ 6:24pm
                rebel said | April 17th 2018 @ 6:24pm | ! Report

                The old specific constraints. It’s only repetitive if you use those two words apparently.
                Top shelf today.

              • April 18th 2018 @ 1:18pm
                Taylorman said | April 18th 2018 @ 1:18pm | ! Report

                ‘And he far from the only international bestseller working like that.’

                Yes true Swede James Patteson is another who churns out novels in the same way. My fave Wilbur Smith certainly use to write alone and would release one every two years on his former wife’s birthday.

                As he’s got older he’s taken to Ghost writers simply because the demand for his style is still there and sells.

                But the latest efforts are like Patteson’s popcorn editions, light romps. Nothing like when he was at his peak with The Courtneys of Africa, the Egyptian series, and several one offs, the Sunbird etc

                For these guys its now purely for the $$…as is everything these days…

              • Roar Guru

                April 18th 2018 @ 3:32pm
                Corne Van Vuuren said | April 18th 2018 @ 3:32pm | ! Report

                Yeah T’man, Wilbur Smith is by far my favourite author.

              • Roar Guru

                April 18th 2018 @ 4:14pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | April 18th 2018 @ 4:14pm | ! Report

                Aye, Wilbur Smith is a master.

              • April 18th 2018 @ 6:57pm
                Fionn said | April 18th 2018 @ 6:57pm | ! Report

                I’ve never actually read anything by Wilbur Smith, but certainly seems to have universal acclaim here.

                Which of his novels would you recommend that I start with?

    • Roar Rookie

      April 17th 2018 @ 2:36am
      William Dalton Davis said | April 17th 2018 @ 2:36am | ! Report

      https://www.playersvoice.com.au/israel-folau-im-a-sinner-too/#hav7TQv6f5fJ1HvL.97

      In case anyone was Interested. Bit of an eye opener.

      • April 17th 2018 @ 11:16am
        Ben said | April 17th 2018 @ 11:16am | ! Report

        Naturally- being the “new age” Australian – i simply scoffed at the 4th paragragh. 😉

        #IstandwithIsraelFolau

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