Ex-Wallaby says ‘we need to cheat better’

By Darren Walton, Darren Walton is a Roar Guru


193 Have your say

    Sure to cause a furore across the Tasman, former Wallaby Stephen Hoiles says Australian teams need to “start cheating better” to keep up with their New Zealand rivals.

    Upset after a serious of contentious refereeing decisions went against the NSW Waratahs in a gut-wrenching 31-29 Super Rugby loss to the Crusaders in Christchurch on Saturday, Hoiles didn’t hold back.

    “The reality is, we’ve got to start cheating better,” Hoiles said on Fox Sports.

    “That’s what we as Aussies need to do. We need to start running players off the ball.

    “We have to be a little bit craftier off the ball. That’s what Australian rugby needs to do. We can’t let the referee make all these decisions.”

    Hoiles was fuming after neither Kiwi referee Ben O’Keefe, the two touch judges or television match officials failed to act on a “cheap shot” from the Crusaders’ All Blacks prop Joe Moody on Waratahs playmaker Kurtley Beale in the lead-up to the home side’s first try.

    “That’s an elbow to the throat of a player unprotected. It’s a red-card offence. The try should not be scored. The guy should not be on the field,” former Wallaby-turned-Fox Sports analyst Rod Kafer said during commentary.

    The incident occurred in the 35th minute and marked the start of the Crusaders’ epic recovery from 29-0 down, the biggest comeback in Super Rugby history.

    Former Wallabies captain George Gregan claimed a red card for Moody would have ensured a “totally different perspective of the game” and suggested the Crusaders got away with other borderline tactics as well.

    Waratahs back-rower Michael Wells appeared to be lifted above the horizontal in the dying stages, but the tackle went unpunished as the defending champion Crusaders held on for their seventh straight win to remain top of the table.

    “They push the envelope right to the last minute,” Gregan said.

    “There’s probably a couple you could say: ‘Hang on, maybe he could blow the whistle’ but you won’t because you’ve been pushing it the whole time and that’s what good teams do and the referee lets that go.”

    Hoiles was adamant the Crusaders should have been penalised for a tip tackle, but the referee ignored Waratahs captain Michael Hooper’s plea to video review the incident.

    “I’m not saying Bernard Foley is going to kick that because he missed two sitters but they should have had a penalty on the bell with another chance to win it,” Hoiles said.

    “I don’t like the fact when a captain shows respect, doesn’t harass him all game and asks him for something to be looked at …. it’s a penalty every day of the week.”

    Waratahs coach Daryl Gibson rued “a couple of decisions proved really costly”, namely the Moody “elbow to the head”.

    But it will be Hoiles’ stirring call for Australian to “start cheating better” – especially in light of the Australian cricket team’s recent ball-tampering scandal and the infamous under-arm delivery from Trevor Chappell all those years ago – that is certain to resonate across the ditch.

    © AAP 2018
    Rebuild announcement

    Have Your Say

    If not logged in, please enter your name and email before submitting your comment. Please review our comments policy before posting on the Roar.

    Oldest | Newest | Most Recent

    The Crowd Says (193)

    • May 12th 2018 @ 10:49pm
      Malo said | May 12th 2018 @ 10:49pm | ! Report

      We need better reserves

      • May 13th 2018 @ 7:27am
        Roger said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:27am | ! Report

        Alternatively “Nard” could learn to kick better.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 8:41am
        Rugby Tragic Too said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:41am | ! Report

        or just the 3 super rugby sides…

        • May 13th 2018 @ 8:53am
          rebel said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:53am | ! Report

          He doesn’t want the Tahs axed just better subs.

          • May 13th 2018 @ 12:37pm
            RTT said | May 13th 2018 @ 12:37pm | ! Report

            The rebels should be axed and that way the tahs don’t have to provide all the talent to themselves, the brumbies and the rebels!

            • May 13th 2018 @ 2:51pm
              rebel said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:51pm | ! Report

              lucky they don’t

              • May 13th 2018 @ 3:02pm
                Malo said | May 13th 2018 @ 3:02pm | ! Report

                They do

              • May 13th 2018 @ 7:00pm
                RTT said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:00pm | ! Report

                The brumbies only have 2 local players in their side.

                The rebels as well!

              • May 13th 2018 @ 7:04pm
                Fionn said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:04pm | ! Report

                So the Tahs are going to have a squad three times the size but still only play 23 players?

                That sounds like a brilliant way of creating competition, building depth and improving.

                Wait, no it doesn’t.

                In truth, for the most part the Rebels and the Brumbies get a lot of the players that the Waratahs and Reds don’t want. Even when that isn’t the case, we need more competition than 2 teams.

              • Roar Guru

                May 14th 2018 @ 8:08am
                rebel said | May 14th 2018 @ 8:08am | ! Report

                So they don’t

          • Roar Guru

            May 13th 2018 @ 9:23pm
            Jokerman said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:23pm | ! Report

            Underarm. Some sandpaper. Now they just say ‘we’re gonna do it’.

            Sand papering the rugby ball won’t do much. Maybe look at taking the thread out before the All Blacks. A slow puncture perhaps – “Try and kick that Beaudi, haha!!”

            The bug in the hotel was silly. Of course the All Blacks were going to scan the room. Cheika would have been better to dress up as a hotel porter – in full costume, under complete disguise.

            Or be part of the hotel entertainment. Here comes the clown! Nope. That won’t work you see. Cheika will be recognised. Stick to the hotel poter.

            • Roar Guru

              May 13th 2018 @ 9:37pm
              Jokerman said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:37pm | ! Report

              Stick to the hotel potter porter 😉

        • Roar Guru

          May 13th 2018 @ 1:51pm
          Jokerman said | May 13th 2018 @ 1:51pm | ! Report

          Nah, just don’t do it. Remember Eden Park with Dane Haylett-Petty? What could of been?

          Just don’t do it. Learn. Move on, and don’t play like amateurs.

          • May 14th 2018 @ 11:03pm
            Drongo said | May 14th 2018 @ 11:03pm | ! Report

            Getting away with it makes it all ok, eh bro?

    • May 12th 2018 @ 11:02pm
      AGbanger said | May 12th 2018 @ 11:02pm | ! Report

      I understand why Hoiles feels that way but he is wrong. We should not play outside the spirit of the game just to win a bit more. I have watched the Moody elbow and subsequent try a bunch of times now and there’s no question that it changed the outcome of the game. I’ve also read the comments from some NZ fans claiming sour grapes. If those people can review that incident and be comfortable that they won fairly then I suggest for all kiwi talk about their superior rugby culture, those people at least do not understand the spirit of the game. Moody should hang his head. If winning at all costs is so important to you then congratulations on your hollow victory.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 4:48am
        Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:48am | ! Report

        Geez, and on and on it will go all week. Poor us for not being able to defend a 29-0 lead, or kick penalties when we need to. Im not going to review the incident, nor did it directly lead to a hollow victory.

        This compared to the rare mention of Daggs hit last week sets fans apart. Its clear who the biggest whing&*gers are.

        ‘Suggest all kiwi talk about their superior rugby culture’.

        Hilarious. Filed that under ‘creative whing=/ing’

        • May 13th 2018 @ 5:24am
          Ben said | May 13th 2018 @ 5:24am | ! Report

          Lol. An aussie talking about the spirit of the game and win at all costs. Rich. I suppose like Hoiles you guys know where the line is and in fact draw it and never cross it. Yes. Aussies always play in the spirit of the game ……
          Wait for the usual suspects to put the same stuck record on about ch3@ts and refs.
          Yup the crusaders not only sandpapered the ball that Foley used to miss 2 easy kicks but the ref used his remote control on it to steer it away too….

          • May 13th 2018 @ 8:12am
            AGbanger said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:12am | ! Report

            SANZAAR confirmed on Sunday morning that Moody had been cited for the hit, with the citing commissioner deciding it met the red card threshold.

            You won by cheating – it’s official.

            Grow a set and watch the incident. Mo’unga jumps over Beatles limp body to break the line. Disgraceful.

            • May 13th 2018 @ 9:04am
              Yogafire said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:04am | ! Report

              This is total BS – isn’t it?

              It angers me even further! So it’s been officially deemed a red card. He’ll miss a game or two – the net effect is ZERO.

              The system is definitely broken.

              A red card at the point the saders gained momentum definitely changed the outcome of the game.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 9:26am
                Jerry said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:26am | ! Report

                It hasn’t officially been declared red yet. It’s been deemed one IF he’s found guilty.

              • Roar Guru

                May 13th 2018 @ 9:55am
                Fox said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:55am | ! Report

                The refs missing Folau being clearly 2 metres off side from the kick with the punt resulting in a try from Foley also changed the game

                The TMO was missing in action in this game at try time unless called upon,

                It was poor refereeing all round throughout the game and the ref also failed to pull the Tahs rush defence for being off-side a few times in first half.

                It was not all one way traffic by any stretch of the imagination

                But if you are 29-0 up in 26 minutes of play you have no business losing the game poor refereeing or otherwise as Rod Kafer at least had guts to point out.

                The Ref gave Foley not one but two opportunities to puts the Tahs in front with only minutes to go but he failed under pressure and one – a grade 10 could have kicked.

                The game was lost because the Tahs failed to increase their lead and were played out of the game in the second half but still had two kicks to seal the deal.

                That ref and TMO should go back down to grade rugby.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 12:38pm
                RTT said | May 13th 2018 @ 12:38pm | ! Report

                Folau was onside

              • May 13th 2018 @ 2:53pm
                Bluffboy said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:53pm | ! Report

                Is that question

              • May 13th 2018 @ 10:05am
                Itsme said | May 13th 2018 @ 10:05am | ! Report

                Did you tw its claim the same a few weeks ago when Chance Peni took Daggs head off and took him out of the game?

                Of course you didn’t!

                Peni was subsequently cited and given 5 weeks I believe due to prior form.

                nothing annoys me more than the cry baby poor me attitude and double standards by fellow Australian fans.

              • Roar Guru

                May 13th 2018 @ 11:04am
                PeterK said | May 13th 2018 @ 11:04am | ! Report

                fox – ready to admit you are very wrong about that offside?

                Clearly 2 metres , on another you said 3 metres.


                Also the cry about offside, saders don’t rush offside as well.

                Fact is no ref or AR seems to be care about constant offside.

                Peni was yc’d and no try was scored.

                Moody wasn’t even penalised and a try was scored. Big difference.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 14th 2018 @ 7:47am
                Paulo said | May 14th 2018 @ 7:47am | ! Report

                Big difference in that Dagg was lost for the game and Beale carries on playing. Not defending Moody, but pointing out the two instances can’t be compared for various reasons.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 4:46pm
                Cuw said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:46pm | ! Report

                Moody not red carded or banned yet.

                Peni banned for 5 weeks when on field idiots did not see the gravity od a head high.

                BIG DIFFERENCE , when a player gets 5 weeks and noone on field thought it was bad DUH.

              • May 14th 2018 @ 8:02am
                Taylorman said | May 14th 2018 @ 8:02am | ! Report

                Yeah some people need to get a grip.

                Saying theres no comparison because there was a try scored. The comparison was that two badly incorrect onfield decisions were made.

                Are people actually disagreeing with that as a comparison?

                And for those preaching the tahs one was ‘worse’. Peni committed an illegal act which sidelined an All Black with injury for months, where Beale got up and played.

                That’s somehow worse is it? Because a try was scored and Peni was yellow carded.

                Some need to relook at their priorities methinks. My take on that thinking? Good job the Tahs lost if you wanna go down that track.

              • May 14th 2018 @ 8:14am
                Taylorman said | May 14th 2018 @ 8:14am | ! Report

                I mean last week we lost a top player for ages due to a foul act. No one cared too much about that at the time. This week we have a foul act that results in a try and there’s several articles and thousands of posts on it.

                Gotta wonder who the real mo?aners are.

                Where was Mr Lords righteous article on the set of refs for the dagg incident?


              • May 14th 2018 @ 1:09pm
                DNZ said | May 14th 2018 @ 1:09pm | ! Report

                Dangerous play isn’t diminished by the outcome, regardless if the player walks away from it or not. Just because Beale wasn’t injured doesn’t make the intent any less malicious or the act any less dangerous. There were a number of dubious calls that went against the Tahs on Saturday. I enjoy seeing them lose as much as the next person, but they would never have lost the game if they were playing 14 men (as they should have been).

            • May 13th 2018 @ 9:27am
              Ben said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:27am | ! Report

              You do realise citings happen a lot post match?
              Even aussies have been cited believe it or not.
              So what…..
              Its a citing that met the redcard threshold. No one is denying that.
              Happens a lot post match…sometimes it doesnt.
              If aus rugby concentrated on the controllables maybe there would be an improvement.
              Kiwis went into blame game over drive post 2007 wc vs France then realised that wont make us win. So they concentrated on improving what they can control.
              You guys will get there….but then you dont need Kiwis telling you whats wrong with Aus rugby. You guys got it sorted.

            • Roar Rookie

              May 13th 2018 @ 7:19pm
              ChrisG said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:19pm | ! Report

            • Roar Rookie

              May 13th 2018 @ 7:23pm
              ChrisG said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:23pm | ! Report

              AGBanger – which Beatles limp body did Mo’unga jump over?

          • May 13th 2018 @ 9:24am
            Ozinsa said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:24am | ! Report

            Do you feel a little silly now he’s been cited Ben and what we all saw and recognised as a blatant violent foul and was ignored and thus significantly altered the outcome of the game? Or do you still simply view a realistic take on what actually happened as sour grapes?

            • May 13th 2018 @ 10:38am
              Ben said | May 13th 2018 @ 10:38am | ! Report

              Why would i feel silly? Read my post properly. If you can….read that is.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 3:20pm
        P2R2 said | May 13th 2018 @ 3:20pm | ! Report

        hollow victory you at….sore and bad loser I say…anyway NZ are streets behind AUS in the cheating stakes….it s in your DNA mate…cricket comes to mind…any team that is 29 points up and loses the game needs to look at itself rather than looking for excuses….oh and the punch by SImmons that was not hauled up….do you hear anyone moaning about that

      • May 13th 2018 @ 4:48pm
        Cuw said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:48pm | ! Report

        Aussy shud not talk about cheating.

        I MEAN SERIOSLY GUYS – its just a couple of weeks since ur best cricketers were banned for a year and the whole team is being changed.

        Glass houses – LOl 😛

        • May 14th 2018 @ 8:13am
          Sgt Pepperoni said | May 14th 2018 @ 8:13am | ! Report

          Which country did Lou Vincent and Chris Cairns play for again?

          • May 14th 2018 @ 9:07am
            bazza said | May 14th 2018 @ 9:07am | ! Report

            Gold comment how they forget.

            • Roar Rookie

              May 14th 2018 @ 11:12am
              Paulo said | May 14th 2018 @ 11:12am | ! Report

              Still streaks behind the shackle-draggers. Didn’t McCallum dob them in? And then make Everything was cleaned up to be above reproach? A little different to ‘current’ capt and vice capt setting a newbie up for the fall.

              • May 14th 2018 @ 7:28pm
                Sgt Pepperoni said | May 14th 2018 @ 7:28pm | ! Report

                Match fixing vs ball tapering which is a greater sin?

    • May 12th 2018 @ 11:15pm
      Gavin said | May 12th 2018 @ 11:15pm | ! Report

      29 – 0 up and then lose and the referring is at fault. Get over it!

      • May 12th 2018 @ 11:19pm
        John said | May 12th 2018 @ 11:19pm | ! Report

        Agreed – big lead after 30 minutes squandered by the Waratahs. The citing commissioner will sort out Joe Moody if warranted.

        • Roar Rookie

          May 13th 2018 @ 2:15am
          Boatie said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:15am | ! Report

          The referee or his assistants or the TMO should have sorted it out at the time. 29-0 with a red card to Moody puts a totally dfferent complexion on the game than Moody being awarded the try that turned the momentum of the match.

          • May 13th 2018 @ 4:49am
            Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:49am | ! Report

            As Daggs was last week? Swings and roundabouts. Thats how it works.

            • May 13th 2018 @ 6:15am
              Daveski said | May 13th 2018 @ 6:15am | ! Report

              Mate you can’t compare the two. Peni didn’t lead to a try plus he got his punishment in the end. Will Moody get his? Hope so.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 8:55am
                Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:55am | ! Report

                Yes he will and yes you can compare the two, because both should have been dealt with immediately, if they had, in Moodys case the try would have been disallowed and Moody would have been off. In Daggs case, the offender would have also been sent off.

                The two are identical situations which if dealt with cirrectly onfield, would have received the correct outcome.

                Such a pity you cant see it that way.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 9:11am
                Fionn said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:11am | ! Report

                Peni got a yellow card, whereas Moody’s non-review meant that the Crusaders scored a try and played with 15 men. If Moody had even gotten a yellow then that is no-try to the Crusaders, pressure relieving penalty for the Tahs and the Crusaders play with 14 men and a de-powered scrum for 10 mins.

                The situations are not analogous whatsoever in terms of how they affected the game. They’re only analogous in that they were dangerous plays and should have been red cards.

                I don’t like ref whinging either, but trying to draw a comparison between the two situation should is going too far.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 9:27am
                Ozinsa said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:27am | ! Report

                Fionn, cut out this logical, reasonable analysis. It simply doesn’t fit the Aussies are whingers narrative

              • May 13th 2018 @ 9:50am
                Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:50am | ! Report

                There are differencesin the scenarios yes but the issue is identical. Incorrect onfield decisions were made. To say they cant be compared is silly.
                Both involved foul play, both resulted in citings that met the red card theshold.
                Its the emotion as a fan that clouds your thinking in terms of whether they can be compared.
                Of course they can because the best outcome for both is for on field decisions to be given more scrutiny as a result.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 9:52am
                Damo said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:52am | ! Report

                Oh so a player running in front of the ball carrier taking defenders with his elbow is the same as a dangerous tackle?. Maybe in NZ but not in the real world.
                Peni has been banned for five Super weeks, Moody gets man of the match. He should get a seosnon ban.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 9:58am
                Fionn said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:58am | ! Report

                One incident (arguably) changed he outcome of a match and was missed completely.

                The other received a yellow card and didn’t change the outcome of the match.

                I think there would have been less complaining if Moody had gotten a yellow card for that, as opposed to nothing.

                They’re similar in terms of the mistake, but the scale and impact of the different is huge.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 3:22pm
                P2R2 said | May 13th 2018 @ 3:22pm | ! Report

                Moody wont get anything….Beale is to blame…he could have side stepped him and not put his throat in jeopardy….

              • May 13th 2018 @ 3:54pm
                Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 3:54pm | ! Report

                Thats true PR2, as thats what he normally does. Sidestepped Nonu a great one in the 15 world cup so either way he would have ended on the ground.

                But thats another story, but I guess it wont have done his tackling confidence any good.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 4:21pm
                soapit said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:21pm | ! Report

                yep its clutching at straws to compare the two. its not the biggest deal in the world and dud calls do cost games occasionally so best just to admit it. it wont mean much except we may hopefully get improvement from in ref (or another ref).

              • May 13th 2018 @ 4:50pm
                Cuw said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:50pm | ! Report

                LOL – BEALE must have a really long throat 😀

                maybe like the MASK when he see a girl 😛

            • May 13th 2018 @ 8:52am
              Bing said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:52am | ! Report

              Totally different scenarios. Moody’s was in the act of scoring a try and was conveniently missed with no card. It was a game changing look the other way moment.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 8:58am
                Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:58am | ! Report

                So sad. Only reason it was game changing was because the Tahs let it. The Saders lost Dagg last week, didnt have the offender sent off so lost nearly as much advantage the incident happening earlier than Moodys from memory.

                so in your eyes would have won by more?. No one knows what would have happened afterwards but I would still have backed the Saders with Moody off.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 9:54am
                Objective said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:54am | ! Report

                Taylorman, you are seriously deluded if you believe the 2 incidents are similar, besides both being foul play. Peni’s was dealt with by the officials (YC), Moody’s wasn’t. Peni’s didn’t lead to a try, Moody’s did. Had Moody even been YC’d, try disallowed, Crusaders momentum gets snuffed out – game changer right there in. 2 point ball game. And to pretend otherwise defines your credibility as zero.
                Yes, Tahs should have defended their lead better, but to claim this had no influence and is sour grapes reflects poorly on you and condemns you to the basket of the worst of Kiwi sympathisers.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 10:58am
                moaman said | May 13th 2018 @ 10:58am | ! Report

                “Kiwi sympathisers.” Ewwwwwwwww!

              • May 13th 2018 @ 4:09pm
                Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:09pm | ! Report

                Objective, my comment was that both incidents should have been dealt on field correctly and the correct outcomes would have been achieved. Both would have been red carded, and the try would have been disallowed.

                Onfield got both wrong. The yellow should have been red, as proved at the hearing amd Moidys was obvious.

                So back on your high horse and quit the kiwi bashing. It aint about that. Its about getting on field decisions correct and both examples were recent and relevant to that cause.

                If you think kiwi refs are as a rule out to favour their own sides then you can keep that one in your own pocket.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 4:20pm
                Objective said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

                I agree it’s about getting decisions right. And if O’Keeffe and his team had got the Moody one correct, it definitely would have changed the game. You imply it wouldn’t have. Peni’s one not so.
                And it’s not about Kiwi bashing or belittling the mental capacity of NZers. You’re doing that perfectly well on your own.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 4:35pm
                Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:35pm | ! Report

                No one knows what the result would have been and Moody have walked because the Tahs were capitulating at a rate of knotts at that stage. I backed them at 29 nil down, and would still have backed them with Moody gone. Ill ignore the rest of your chil?dish comments ‘Objective’.

            • Roar Pro

              May 13th 2018 @ 9:59am
              Melburnian said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:59am | ! Report

              Peni’s challenge on Dagg was clumsy and in the act of making a tackle but there was no evidence of malicious intent and was dealt with on the field by the Referee. Moody’s was off the ball, with clear intent. There are different thresholds on the offence and Moody’s wad definitely a red card.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 4:53pm
                Cuw said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:53pm | ! Report

                really? is that why he has a history ?

                is that why he copped 5 weeks for something usually given 3?

                DUH – auusy shud not be the ones to talk about cheating – ur cricket team has ensured that ;P

              • May 13th 2018 @ 5:09pm
                Objective said | May 13th 2018 @ 5:09pm | ! Report

                Exactly, Melburnian. Taylorman & others of his ilk unfortunately allow their nationalism to override logic. Just because they have nothing else to do but write copious posts containing their drivel shouldn’t mean they are immune from being called out.

              • May 13th 2018 @ 6:07pm
                Jacko said | May 13th 2018 @ 6:07pm | ! Report

                Moody’s hit was to the chest and slipped up meaning a yellow at worst …Peni’s was deliberate taking out in the air and got 5 weeks

              • May 13th 2018 @ 6:08pm
                Jacko said | May 13th 2018 @ 6:08pm | ! Report

                Melburnian…..Moody’s hit was to the chest and slipped up meaning a yellow at worst …Peni’s was deliberate taking out in the air and got 5 weeks

          • May 14th 2018 @ 7:36am
            Dan said | May 14th 2018 @ 7:36am | ! Report

            NO it did not. Get over it.

            The Tahs squandered a 29 point lead. And D Gibson should say it to all of them at this weeks training sessions.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 2:25am
        MH01 said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:25am | ! Report

        I’m soooooo proud Moody got man of the match !

        Are you ? Look at the headline of this post….. ahhhh the light bulb goes on 😉

        Oz teams have much to learn from crusaders ….

    • Roar Guru

      May 12th 2018 @ 11:39pm
      eagleJack said | May 12th 2018 @ 11:39pm | ! Report

      I really wish we weren’t getting these types of headlines/articles after such a brilliant game of rugby. I can understand the frustration after 39 consecutive losses to Kiwi teams, but the commentary team need to show more restraint.

      There are plenty of positives to take from that match for the Tahs. Even when hanging on for grim life when losing another player to a yellow, they managed to fight for each other. And had two chances to win it at the death.

      Sure they blew a huge lead. But the Crusaders had an insane amount of possession all game and never lost their composure despite leaking points early. They are a champion side.

      The Tahs aren’t far off. I hope they can build from this.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 2:28am
        MH01 said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:28am | ! Report

        Tahs were very good. Supported them, and can say was proud of the boys as a Brumbies fan.

        It was indeed a very good game, but also were unlucky with a number of calls that did not help.

        Teams in the finals will be worried about the tahs

        • May 13th 2018 @ 8:06am
          Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:06am | ! Report

          MH ‘Teams in the finals will be worried about the tahs’

          Yeh, for about 40 minutes.

          • Roar Guru

            May 13th 2018 @ 11:09am
            PeterK said | May 13th 2018 @ 11:09am | ! Report

            no team with a good set of powerful forwards and a half decent kicking game won’t be.

        • May 13th 2018 @ 9:13am
          Fionn said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:13am | ! Report

          Yeah, I definitely preferred watching them to the Brumbies the last few weeks. Sad for the Waratahs. There are positives and negatives. They’re the type of matches you have to win – you can’t blow a 29 point lead as a professional side.

          Folau is a freakish rugby player, but I don’t know if he will be in Australian rugby next year?

          • May 13th 2018 @ 9:58am
            Chas said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:58am | ! Report

            Folau was fantastic in those first 30 mins. Couldn’t believe how determined the Crusaders were to keep bringing him into the game by giving him the ball.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 5:41am
        Ben said | May 13th 2018 @ 5:41am | ! Report

        Spot on eaglejack.
        If they could analyse what they did wrong to lose it they would go along way to improving aussie rugby. But instead……

      • May 13th 2018 @ 7:09am
        Cliff (Bishkek) said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:09am | ! Report

        EJ, I watched the match. Yes the elbow was not good and should have been called. However, leading 29 to 0 and unable to take it from there was not the referees fault. It was the players fault – they received 2 yellow cards and quite frankly I do not know how Hooper did not receive a yellow. Many times he was into the ruck and fell over the tackled player or remained there and was not pinged.

        Waratahs played well, only for the first half where the tactics took some getting used to. Then the Crusaders applied the blowtorch. And a well deserved penalty try.

        The so called “above horizontal” was a BS complaint. It was not a penalty, period. Like in the Reds / Sunwolves match, Rugby will end up being played in skirts and handbags shortly. The Thor was penalised for a legal action of rucking.

        But I will say, Referees and Match Video Referees are killing the game.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 7:47am
        Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:47am | ! Report

        Yes a lot of positives there, going 29-0 up the main one. Shows when they click and can get passes to stick they can score.

        Still thought Saders might win even at that point because the 29-0 lead was not a fair indication of the abilities of both teams. The Tahs hit a very rare purple patch and they did that against the rebels for a spell as well.

        Saders have far more resilience and did incredibly well to haul that back in within forty minutes or so.

        Tahs just have to acquire some of that same resilience and theyll start winning more. The handling and passing on some of their tries was superb.

        • May 13th 2018 @ 8:47am
          Rugby Tragic Too said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:47am | ! Report

          it would help if the NZ ref wasn’t biased ensuring the crusaders were awarded 17 penalties to the waratahs 7

          there is no way that is a true indication of the discipline of these two sides.

          I counted out atleast 5 penalties that could’ve been awarded the other way, and I counted atleast 5 penalties that he failed to award to the tahs.. 2 of which were possible red cards.

          It was a DISGRACEFUL refereeing performance!

          • May 13th 2018 @ 8:58am
            rebel said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:58am | ! Report

            Thats what Hoiles is talking about. Focus more on your quality, not the quanity.

          • May 13th 2018 @ 9:53am
            Pinetree said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:53am | ! Report

            The Crusaders had 68% territory and 59% possession, which usually leads to the opposition conceding more penalties out of desperation to get more ball and field position, so nothing surprising about that penalty count at all.

          • May 13th 2018 @ 9:53am
            Taylorman said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:53am | ! Report

            If you think that better onfield reffing will help the Tahs improve their overall game then you think that. This passage of talk was looking to set refereeing aside but good old RTTs gotta have his little cry everywhere.

            We get it. Now can you move on?

            Probably not.

        • May 13th 2018 @ 8:57am
          concerned supporter said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:57am | ! Report

          Taylorman, you say,
          ” Still thought Saders might win even at that point because the 29-0 lead was not a fair indication of the abilities of both teams.”
          So did I. I was waiting for the ref to issue a yellow/red card to NSW. It happened twice.
          The second yellow card.wasn’t N going for an intercept? He had earlier scored a try from an intercept.
          This law and reset scrum laws need to be changed by our masters.
          At about the 70 minute mark, stats appeared on the TV screen, 2nd half possession 81%Crusaders, 19% Waratahs. 2nd half territory was similar.
          Together with 2 yellow cards, it was no wonder that the Crusaders won.

          • May 13th 2018 @ 8:59am
            rebel said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:59am | ! Report

            Slap down like that has been a card for years.

      • Roar Guru

        May 13th 2018 @ 11:08am
        PeterK said | May 13th 2018 @ 11:08am | ! Report

        the Tahs are far far off.

        They did manage to get a big lead but lets face it that was largely down to a lot of very poor handling by the crusaders.

        They tightened up, played in the forwards and tahs had no answer.

        Any team with a good set of powerful forwards can expose the tahs structural flaws.

        • May 13th 2018 @ 3:16pm
          Malo said | May 13th 2018 @ 3:16pm | ! Report

          The Tahs are guaranteed in the 8

      • May 13th 2018 @ 4:55pm
        Cuw said | May 13th 2018 @ 4:55pm | ! Report

        @ eagleJack

        at one point in time the Waratahs forwards formed the perfect rolling maul IMO.

        they had an arrow-head shape with 5-deep layers.

        and there was no way the crusaders could get to the ball.

        that was really neat – tho it did not bring a try.

    • May 12th 2018 @ 11:57pm
      Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg said | May 12th 2018 @ 11:57pm | ! Report

      Agree EJ.
      If we were told yesterday that we would be pipped at the post by 2points by Crusaders we would all be pleasantly surprised.
      Amidst the outrage over the try scoring cynicism of a certain prop we need to get grateful. We did okay and almost flipped the bookies into a spin. 8 to 1 odds!
      We did okay.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 7:37am
        Itsme said | May 13th 2018 @ 7:37am | ! Report

        If you were told yesterday that you would be pipped after leading 29-0 I think you would be blaming the ref like most others in this site.
        Australian rugby is a disgrace.

        The Tahs were just lucky that the Crusaders played terribly for the first 20 odd minutes.

        Let’s not forget that the Tahs lost last week to the worst New Zealand team by quite some margin at home in Sydney.

        The delusion on this site really knows no limits.

        • May 13th 2018 @ 8:18am
          Peter said | May 13th 2018 @ 8:18am | ! Report

          You read what you want to read. Plenty of Australian posters here lamenting the Waratahs’ drop-off that meant they lost the game. They weren’t blaming one crap decision. Got that?
          It is, however, possible to hold more than one thought in your head. The other is that Moody should have been red-carded for an elbow to the throat off the ball.
          Now I understand that some NZers are convinced that all NZ rugby players are saints who only pee the best ginger ale and whose sh$t doesn’t stink. Clearly you are one of them.

          • May 13th 2018 @ 10:09am
            Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg said | May 13th 2018 @ 10:09am | ! Report

            Pete, as wonderful as my kiwi brothers and sisters are, (in rugby, hospitable warmth, genuine generosity of spirit) they don’t take criticism well. Or logical rebuttals.
            Methinks they protesteth too much, often with ‘attacking the source’ or ‘moral equivalence’ quasi-arguments.
            However, we should have won that game regardless of Moodygate.
            We did not.
            We do indeed need to get better. Foley is not a reliable kicker, either for touch or goal. When he is stuffing those things up we should take those things off him. Hooper needs to become a better captain. That’s head work.
            We were robbed last night but the most important theft was our composure. A more composed team would have taken a big breath after Moodygate and changed tactics to counter the Saders counter.

            Personally I believe that the Super and Test referee systems are poor.
            Firstly, Australia has too few good refs. Hence this referee who is inexperienced at least gets too many games. Someone like Joubert should have had this one. And why did he retire? Threats from a certain nation for a poor call?
            The laws as they exist if applied consistently could create more free attack and fairer results.
            Off side law is one.
            Every ruck has a few players rush from off side.
            Every ruck has players holding on.
            Many attacks have Moodyesque blocks employed.
            Most box kicks have the half back stepping back while his chasers step forward, a 2 metre offside every time.
            Catchers are shielded by team mates every time. The best teams also happen to be the best at hiding these one percenters in the confusion of a game.

            One nation is ahead of the game and capitalising in this softness in officiating. One nation is the best at non-rugby, whilst being simultaneously the outright undisputed champions and geniuses at real rugby.
            The answer isn’t better ‘cheating’. It is better officiating. Otherwise one nation with a ‘win at any cost’ culture may end up playing against their number two competitor- daylight.
            And at that point in this region it will be ‘game over’.

            • May 13th 2018 @ 2:23pm
              Good Game said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:23pm | ! Report


            • May 13th 2018 @ 3:01pm
              elvis said | May 13th 2018 @ 3:01pm | ! Report

              You haven’t thought this through, it sounds like the thought process that led to prohibition and other failed initiatives.
              Yes there are offences in pretty much every ruck, but by both sides, who do you penalise? The attacking team? The team whos half the ball is in? Take turns? The one the ref sees first? Every ruck leads to a penalty, there will be about 40 a game. The real challenge of the ref now is to let the game flow while ignoring breaches of the rules that don’t affect the game, which is what the best ones do.

            • May 13th 2018 @ 6:11pm
              Jacko said | May 13th 2018 @ 6:11pm | ! Report

              Ken we just cant stand tossers

          • May 13th 2018 @ 10:10am
            Itsme said | May 13th 2018 @ 10:10am | ! Report

            I’m not a kiwi but ok keep talking champ

            • Roar Guru

              May 13th 2018 @ 12:18pm
              rebel said | May 13th 2018 @ 12:18pm | ! Report

              That’s not going to stop Peter and Ken with their jingoistic rants.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 5:03pm
        Cuw said | May 13th 2018 @ 5:03pm | ! Report

        @ Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg

        watching Waratahs play – i was wondering how stupid can some of ur guys be ?

        one kicked the ball in the ruck – i mean its like 6 months since the new laws came in , does he not know.

        and then already a penalty advantage on BigT slaps the ball down – WTF??

        but then i went on to watch the not Heineken cup final and the Fenchies managed to be even stupider than Waratahs.

        the Racing 92 scrum half ( not Mach ) turns the other way and barks orders to his back – while the ball has come out of the ruck and Leinter boys pounce on it .

        ALL of this inside the Leinster 22 with scores level at 12 all.

        and the the most idiotic thing of all – which deserves the player to be shot on his own shyt !!

        scores still level 12 all . Leinster have attacking lineout at 30m inside Racing. clock teads 77 minutes.

        the Racing forward manages to steal the ball back , the scrum half passes to Teddy Thomas . the idiot instead of kicking it far down the field as possible choses to run down blind side and gets bundled into touch INSIDE Racing 22.

        off the next lineout Leinster attack , Racing are offside – and the rest is HISTORY.

        Racing lose for the 2nd time in 3 years and Leinster win their 4th Euro Cup. score 15:12

        so i guess there are lots of stupid rugger players all over the world……

    • May 13th 2018 @ 12:37am
      Misha said | May 13th 2018 @ 12:37am | ! Report

      Didn’t look like an elbow to the throat – just two players checking each other after colliding together in midfield – his push back was on Beale’s arm…

      • May 13th 2018 @ 2:22am
        MH01 said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:22am | ! Report

        And after taking Beale out, goes onto score….

        • May 13th 2018 @ 9:11am
          Jerry said | May 13th 2018 @ 9:11am | ! Report

          It’s a penalty regardless of the citing offence. He obstructed in front of the ball at the very least.

          • Columnist

            May 13th 2018 @ 2:01pm
            Geoff Parkes said | May 13th 2018 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

            Absolutely Jerry.
            Two separate issues. TMO was asleep at the wheel re obstruction. Moody obstructed Beale ahead of the ball and opened up a path for the runner behind him. That’s a penalty all day long.

            As for foul play, it looks like he cocks his forearm and makes contact with that arm. If contact was to the to the head, deemed with sufficient force, then that should be worthy of a suspension.

            I can’t tell on the limited vision on laptop I have exactly where the contact was made. I expect the citing commissioner will get to the bottom of it.

      • May 13th 2018 @ 12:15pm
        Malo said | May 13th 2018 @ 12:15pm | ! Report

        I agree I don’t think it was a penalty, why do supporters want red cards. You want a fair contest. It was a great game played by two great sides, the Tahs forwards really stood up especially Hannigan