Live scores
Live Commentary
Australia : 3
vs
New Zealand
| 18:00

Israel Folau will become Super Rugby’s greatest try scorer

David Lord Columnist

By David Lord, David Lord is a Roar Expert

Tagged:
 , , ,

213 Have your say

    When Israel Folau crossed for his second try against the Highlanders at Allianz last night, the champion Waratahs fullback hit the 50 career mark.

    He now has his crosshairs zeroed in on Doug Howlett (59), Caleb Ralph (58), and Joe Roff (57), with Stirling Mortlock, Bryan Habana, and Christian Cullen locked on 56 as Super Rugby’s leading try-scorers of all time.

    Folau, along with Kurtley Beale, and Bernard Foley, tore into the Highlanders for a comprehensive 41-12 victory to end the embarrassing drought of 40 successive losses by Australian franchises to New Zealand opponents, lasting 722 days.

    When the big three fire the Waratahs fire, it’s as simple as that.

    The knockers are saying the Highlanders were crippled by winger Tevita Nabura being red-carded for deliberately kicking opposite number Cam Clarke in the face, and two minutes later halfback Aaron Smith was binned for a deliberate knock on.

    Sure they battled, as any side would with 14 men for 61 minutes, but not to the extent of a 41 points to 12 result, which was comprehensive.

    Last night was how the Waratahs should play every week with up to 11 Wallabies in the starting lineup.

    They were a pleasure to watch, instead of the rubbish rugby they’ve played far too often in giving away basic elements of penalties, turnovers, and missed tackles.

    Last night it was just seven penalties, 15 turnovers, and 13 missed tackles, less than half the norm.

    And for good measure, the Waratahs won all seven of their lineouts.

    What a difference those stats made in the overall performance.

    The Waratahs ran in six tries to two, covering 474 metres in the process to just 250 to dominate from the kick off and record their biggest win over the Highlanders in 23 seasons.

    The Waratahs now lead the Australian Conference by six points as the only team in the black for and against, with plus 65.

    The Rebels are minus 33, the Reds minus 110, the Brumbies minus 65, and the Sunwolves minus 155.

    It’s a big if, but if the Waratahs continue to play exciting and disciplined rugby like last night, they will be a genuine threat come finals time.

    And that never appeared possible earlier in the season.

    David Lord
    David Lord

    David Lord was deeply involved in two of the biggest sporting stories - World Series Cricket in 1977 and professional rugby in 1983. After managing Jeff Thomson and Viv Richards during WSC, in 1983 David signed 208 of the best rugby players from Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France to play an international pro circuit. The concept didn't get off the ground, but it did force the IRB to get cracking and bring in the World Rugby Cup, now one of the world's great sporting spectacles

    Rebuild announcement

    Have Your Say



    If not logged in, please enter your name and email before submitting your comment. Please review our comments policy before posting on the Roar.

    Oldest | Newest | Most Recent

    The Crowd Says (213)

    • May 20th 2018 @ 9:47am
      RTT said | May 20th 2018 @ 9:47am | ! Report

      The Waratahs have been just as good for 3 weeks now. The only difference was the quality of the refereeing.

      Just shows how much of an influence the referees performance can have on results.

      Last nights ref got the highlanders second try wrong but other than that it was a good performance by him and his tmo.

      As for Folau he is on track to take both the test and super rugby scoring record.

      Test record if he stays in the game for another few years. Super rugby record in just 1 more year.

      When he takes the super rugby record he will have exactly twice the no of tries as the next best Waratah Lote Tiquiri who scored 29 tries for the tahs from 89 games to help put Israel Folau in perspective who is already 50 tries from just 83 games (and mostly from fullback not wing)

      • May 20th 2018 @ 10:05am
        Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:05am | ! Report

        The number of times BP went to the tmo must have been a record. Do you think the refs got a bit of a talking to during the week about double checking when there’s any doubt?

        • May 20th 2018 @ 10:10am
          RTT said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:10am | ! Report

          Yes I do.

          The tmo from the crusaders v tahs game was sacked last week.

          This weeks tmo actually did his job because he knows he’d get the sack if he didn’t

          • May 20th 2018 @ 10:15am
            Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:15am | ! Report

            Plus it was George Ayoub and he never needs any encouragement to get involved.

            • May 20th 2018 @ 10:56am
              Jacko said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:56am | ! Report

              Is he an Aussie?

              • Roar Rookie

                May 20th 2018 @ 12:03pm
                Paulo said | May 20th 2018 @ 12:03pm | ! Report

                Yes he is. So we should expect all the people up and arms about conspiracies for the last week on here too, saying the win is rubbish and the ref is biased and non-neutral I guess.

              • May 20th 2018 @ 12:24pm
                Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 12:24pm | ! Report

                Except if you actually paid attention to what happened last night, the ref made every one of the decisions himself, the tmo just showed him the angles and then agreed with his decision.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:07pm
                cuw said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:07pm | ! Report

                ” Except if you actually paid attention to what happened last night, the ref made every one of the decisions himself, the tmo just showed him the angles and then agreed with his decision. ”

                as far as my understanding of rugger TMO goes – the ref has to make all the decisions.

                the TMO is there to help and provide his views – just as the assistant refs do.

                responsibility of final decision is with the ref.

                this is not the case in cricket – where the TV ump can give his decisions overriding the onfield ump.

                while most of the cricket decisions are clear cut – debates arise wrt some of the catching decisions.

            • May 20th 2018 @ 10:57am
              Jameswm said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:57am | ! Report

              Doing his job you mean?

        • Roar Guru

          May 20th 2018 @ 12:26pm
          PeterK said | May 20th 2018 @ 12:26pm | ! Report

          actually the tmo was in the refs year that he needed to look at something multiple times, then BP asked to put it on the screen, so I don’t think it was a metter of the ref checking with the tmo but the tmo being more alert than the i didn’t see anything one in the game against the crusaders.

      • May 20th 2018 @ 10:58am
        Jameswm said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:58am | ! Report

        He also should have binned Naholo on the no arms dive at TN’s legs on his second try. They played it over and over. How did they miss it and why weren’t the Tahs in the ref’s ear?

        • Roar Rookie

          May 20th 2018 @ 12:08pm
          Paulo said | May 20th 2018 @ 12:08pm | ! Report

          They seem to miss a lot of those side line tackle attempts. Seems to be a lot of no arm tackles in that area.

      • Roar Guru

        May 20th 2018 @ 1:12pm
        Kane said | May 20th 2018 @ 1:12pm | ! Report

        He’s got a high chance for the super rugby try scoring record but slim to none for the test try scoring record.

        • May 20th 2018 @ 5:34pm
          RTT said | May 20th 2018 @ 5:34pm | ! Report

          The way he’s going they’re both a matter of time

          • Roar Guru

            May 20th 2018 @ 8:23pm
            Kane said | May 20th 2018 @ 8:23pm | ! Report

            He’s currently scored exactly half of what Campese did in his first five test seasons.

            Do you think his next five will be as prolific? At the age of 34?

            Even then he’s still short of Habana.

            Slim to no chance.

            • Roar Guru

              May 21st 2018 @ 9:41am
              Wal said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:41am | ! Report

              Completely agree,
              Try looking at Joe Rokocoko and Christian Cullen who both scored their first 30 test tries in about half the time of Folau only for father time to catch up.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 10:02am
                RTT said | May 21st 2018 @ 10:02am | ! Report

                Unlike these you mention Folau only played his first ever game of rugby union 5 years ago.

                Last season he scored 12 tries (the record for a wallaby in a calendar year) and it would’ve probably been more if he didn’t rest for the EOYT.

                There’s no reason why he can’t keep scoring his usual 10 or so tries a year and in 3 years break campeses record. Certainly if he stays in he game another World Cup cycle he’ll end up on much more.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 11:12am
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:12am | ! Report

                So? Hes also Super rugbys biggest idiot. Nil respect.

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 12:01pm
                Wal said | May 21st 2018 @ 12:01pm | ! Report

                Yeah except he averages 6 tries per year, has scored 10 tries or more only twice.
                Last year was certainly a great year for him but the previous 3 years he scored a combined 10 tries.

                Even a single year like 2016(2) or 2015(1) or injuries and that time frame blows out to an age where try-scoring becomes very rare.

                In fact, only 2 players in the entire history of Rugby have scored 10 or more tries over 30
                D Ohata and H Onozawa

                Or Only 11 players over 30 have ever even scored 8 or more tires in a season something Izzy of going to have to do at least 3 times.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 3:57pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 3:57pm | ! Report

                saying he’s only scored 10 tries or more only twice is like criticsing Einstein because he only came up with two theories that changed the world

                The way he plays, and he’s been a try scoring phenomenon in both league and union, it is just a matter of time before he breaks both records.

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 3:59pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 3:59pm | ! Report

                Thanks Wal that was my next point, scoring 1 try in 2015 and just 2 in 2016 shows that he doesn’t score 10+ every year.

                Had he played Rugby from 18, he may very well have challenged for the record but as it stands I don’t see how it can be done.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 5:42pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:42pm | ! Report

                2015 and 16 in test rugby are exceptions not the norm to his whole career

                in those years he was still scoring a plethora in super rugby.

                in 2016 for instance he topped the super rugby tournament for tries with 11.

                so he’s always been a try scorer and always will be!

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 5:52pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:52pm | ! Report

                Unlike these you mention Folau only played his first ever game of rugby union 5 years ago.

                2015 and 16 in test rugby are exceptions not the norm to his whole career

                Except that’s 40% of his career, by your own submission

              • May 21st 2018 @ 5:53pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:53pm | ! Report

                yes and then in 2016 he topped super rugby for try scoring!

                and how about his nrl playing days when he was breaking try scoring records?

                he’s a try scorer… deal with it!

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:18pm
                cuw said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:18pm | ! Report

                If anyone was going to catch HABANA – it was Savea , but then he has lost the mojo.

                he had a very good strike rate before beiing dropped.

                Reiko while young does not have a high strike rate atm.

                Folau is like 50% – so he will need another 60 tests to catch Habana.

                good thing is Auzzy will play a lot of Argies and NZ in 4 nations annually.

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 7:38pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:38pm | ! Report

                No one is doubting he’s a try scorer, we’ve all “dealt with it” we’re stating that we don’t think he will more than double his current test tally before he retires to take top spot.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 7:43pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:43pm | ! Report

                kane if he plays test rugby for another world cup cycle, the way he sniffs out tries, he’ll end up on top by a fair margin.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 8:16pm
                Shane D said | May 21st 2018 @ 8:16pm | ! Report

                Folau scores on average a try every 2 tests. For any player to more than double the their test try scoring total post age 30 at that average then you must believe he is superman!

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 8:11pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 8:11pm | ! Report

                Lets just wait and see if he can finally score against Ireland first..

              • May 21st 2018 @ 8:31pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 8:31pm | ! Report

                folau scored 12 tries from 10 tests just last season. Breaking his own shared record for the most tries in a calendar year for the wallabies. to help put this in perspective this is the same amount of tries Jonah Lomu scored in 1995 from the same amount of tests.

                Had he gone onto the eoyt i have no doubt he would have scored more and may have broken the record for most ever tries in a calendar year (17) and regardless I firmly believe he was all set for the coveted rugby world player of the year award, had he toured the UK, such was his form.

                alas he decided to settle down and get married instead….

                he is in just as good as form in the past few weeks after his return from injury.

                He’s going to continue to break records.

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 9:00pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:00pm | ! Report

                No ones doubting that he scored 12 last year.

                This year will start harder with three tests against the Irish who he’s never scored against instead of Fiji, Italy, and a weakened Scottish team.

                Who is to say he won’t have another run like he has done scoring just 3 tries in 26 tests?

                Lets just wait for the Irish series

              • May 21st 2018 @ 11:03pm
                Dave from Mt Druitt said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:03pm | ! Report

                Stop trying to reason with RTT and Rugby Tragic Too. They are set to in their opinion and will not change regardless.

                I have my own opinion and while Folau does things on the field his actions are no more than what is expected of a player in his position.

                In regards to being the best player that title belongs to the player that has the ability to change the course of a game, determine the outcome or imspire his team to win regardless of the situation.

                I don’t see Folau having that ability.

              • May 22nd 2018 @ 12:04am
                Taylorman said | May 22nd 2018 @ 12:04am | ! Report

                Yeah just a bit of fun Dave. Every now and then Messa comes out with these overblown Tahs, Wallaby, Folau statements and usually gets tied up in a knot trying to paint an illusion that doesnt exist, then disappears when too many point out the flaws.

              • July 27th 2018 @ 11:34am
                Kane said | July 27th 2018 @ 11:34am | ! Report

                Ireland are fast becoming Israels bogey team as SA were Jonahs. Just can’t quite cross that white line.

    • May 20th 2018 @ 9:50am
      Bob said | May 20th 2018 @ 9:50am | ! Report

      Yep… May as well give-em the trophy now.

      • May 20th 2018 @ 10:10am
        Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:10am | ! Report

        No. But if i understand the new finals system correctly, if the tahs win oz and finish above the saffa winner (5pts behind the lions but 2 games in hand atm), they get a home qf almost certainly against a saffa or oz team, and winning that gives them a home semi. Anything can happen from there.

        Of course it’s a long way to go and I don’t think the tahs are good enough to do that this year, but it is possible.

        • May 20th 2018 @ 10:21am
          Itsme said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:21am | ! Report

          Shows what a bs finals format this system is.
          Up until last night the Tahs were sitting 5th on points.
          Conferences need to go, pity finals are what’s killing this competition.

          • May 20th 2018 @ 12:27pm
            Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 12:27pm | ! Report

            Well for them to be hosting a sf there’s a lot of wins needed so presumably they would be higher than 5th on the table. Possibly 3rd. Lots of ifs.

            You’d understand perhaps why a tournament where nz teams just every finals game might become unappealing to the other markets?

            • May 20th 2018 @ 10:09pm
              Two shades said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:09pm | ! Report

              Are you serious Wheel? So if there’s no sydney teams in the finals of league thrown one in there because it’s appealing to the game? Or no South American teams in the quarters of the Football World Cup put one in there to make it appealing! Mate, you over and over again just come out with absolute crap! How about we put the Warriors in every year to appeal to New Zealand market…your biased rants are so transparent and frankly you contribute nothing but confrontation…and the roar is poorer for it!

              • May 20th 2018 @ 11:04pm
                Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 11:04pm | ! Report

                Yes that was uber confrontational, I do humbly apologize for stating the bleeding obvious that the Australian and South African markets want to have home finals. Now why don’t you go and see if you can contribute something positive rather than another lavish serving of your own special brand of hypocrisy?

              • May 21st 2018 @ 9:18am
                Gavin said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:18am | ! Report

                Reserve Wheel

                While I understand the preference is for the finals series to have teams from SA and Australia it is pointless when they given a place in the finals by virtue of winning their relevant conferences.

                An example the Brumbies were placed 3rd in the 2017 finals series but were 9th in the overall points table and below the Blues.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 9:24am
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:24am | ! Report

                It isn’t ‘pointless’ at all.

                It means the game generates more appeal in South African and especially Australian markets. Imagine 2017 (the year of New Zealand’s greatest dominance) when it was clear from about a third of the way through the season that no Aussie team would make the top 8 (and only a few South African ones would).

                Why would the game have generated interest in those markets? People would just switch off.

                On the other hand I also understand that the integrity of the competition is undermined by the conference system.

                It’s a classic dilemma. No right or wrong answer. I personally would prefer a round robin with a top 4/8 as per S12/S14. But I can see both sides.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 12:56pm
                Gavin said | May 21st 2018 @ 12:56pm | ! Report

                A round robin competition with a top 4/8 as per S12/S14 could also mean that the Kiwi sides fill the top 4 positions.

                The Tahs would lose the benefit of playing the weaker teams in their own conference twice.

                The only way to create more appeal in South Africa and Australia is by improving their performance and winning games.

                How the saying go. You don’t practice until you get it right, You practice until you stop getting it wrong.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 4:02pm
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:02pm | ! Report

                Yep, which is the main argument for having the conference system.

        • Roar Guru

          May 20th 2018 @ 4:48pm
          Corne Van Vuuren said | May 20th 2018 @ 4:48pm | ! Report

          Well, if the Tahs continue to play with the accuracy and intensity of yesterday, then they could end up in the final.

          I just don’t see how they would win that, seemingly nigh on impossible to win a final away from home

          • May 20th 2018 @ 7:11pm
            Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 7:11pm | ! Report

            With the vagaries of the finals system a home final would be conceivable. It would essentially require them to finish ahead of SA 1, win their qf and sf (against SA 1, assuming they win) and have NZ 2 beat NZ 1 in the other semi. Now that would get the roar rowd going….

            • May 20th 2018 @ 7:28pm
              Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 7:28pm | ! Report

              By the way, I don’t expect that to happen. I think the tahs will lose to the reds away and either the rebels or brumbies. 50/50 about the chiefs too. I think they’ll win oz but be 3rd overall and come up against the highlanders or chiefs in the qf.

              • May 20th 2018 @ 8:14pm
                Faith said | May 20th 2018 @ 8:14pm | ! Report

                So, Tahs are 50/50 against the Chiefs but definitely a loss against Reds (who were thrashed by the Chiefs and Moondogs) and also iffy against Brumbies (beaten by the Clan abd a 14 man Saders team) and Rebels (thrashed by Canes and Saders) … just one win and the cup is possible. Lol. After 40 losses in a row …

              • May 20th 2018 @ 11:11pm
                Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 11:11pm | ! Report

                Tahs are in form, chiefs are travelling back from south Africa and tahs have tended to go ok against the chiefs over the years. 50/50.

                Meanwhile reds are hot and cold but will save their best for the tahs in Brisbane. It’s been a long time between drinks for them and they’re just about due.

                You know, from time to time you kiwis could not take everything as a personal affront.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 20th 2018 @ 10:51pm
                Kirky said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:51pm | ! Report

                Wheel! ~ Aussie Conference team wins a game, and they’re instant Tournament winners, good win against a whistled out Team!

                There won’t be any Australian Conference Teams in the final, if you’re honest, none deserve to be!

              • May 20th 2018 @ 11:14pm
                Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 11:14pm | ! Report

                Yeah i specifically said I didn’t expect that to happen but apparently basic literacy skills have gone missing tonight. Tahs currently stand 6th, 1 pt behind 4th, so I guess that means they do deserve to be there.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 9:25am
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:25am | ! Report

                I don’t see the Brumbies beating the Waratahs.

        • May 20th 2018 @ 6:17pm
          cinque said | May 20th 2018 @ 6:17pm | ! Report

          Tahs picked up 7 points from their LLW streak, which is better than six from DDD.

          • May 21st 2018 @ 5:35am
            Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:35am | ! Report

            “good win against a whistled out Team!”?
            Thank you, Kirky.

            You are whinging like….. like… like…. well like an Aussie! 😉
            Congratulations mate, and welcome over to the big island. Bring your esky and thongs. You will fit in with us shackle draggers just fine.

    • May 20th 2018 @ 9:59am
      Council said | May 20th 2018 @ 9:59am | ! Report

      Cullen and Howlett scored their tries from how many games a season?

      Folau from how many?

      I think I speak for most Kiwi posters here, not the vocal foolish minority that just love to stir, that it’s good to see the Aussie teams playing well and getting close for a win the last few weeks and finally snagging one.

      The one thing that makes it hard though is the over the top comments and remarks that come after a win.

      The blind fanaticism of some posters here to Folau or Foley or Hooper etc or blaming the ref when they lose is almost a pestilence on this site.

      And the same goes for those Kiwis that seem to love nothing more than riling up the Aussies or chucking in snide remarks.

      You can almost disregard comments bow as soon as you see the handle of the poster.

      I know I do.

      Sorry for the slightly off topic post.

      • May 20th 2018 @ 10:12am
        Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:12am | ! Report

        Cullen got to 50 in 8 matches less than folau. Roff was fastest in something like 15 games less. Folau 3rd fastest, faster than Howlett.

        • Columnist

          May 20th 2018 @ 10:28am
          David Lord said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:28am | ! Report

          The actual figures are Joe Roff’s 50 took 67 games, Christian Cullen’s 75, and Israel Folau’s 83.

          • Roar Rookie

            May 20th 2018 @ 10:57pm
            Kirky said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:57pm | ! Report

            Who the hell cares about how many tries any Player scores, ! it’s about winning games I would’ve thought, it’s the amount of tries on any given day that matters.

            I bet there’s very, very few know about how many tries any player has scored, as it doesn’t matter, the tries for the game at the time that counts!

            • May 20th 2018 @ 11:20pm
              Albatross said | May 20th 2018 @ 11:20pm | ! Report

              Except that’s not actually true. It’s more points, not tries that win matches Kirky.

      • May 20th 2018 @ 10:43am
        Rugby Tragic Too said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:43am | ! Report

        59 tries – Doug Howlett, from 104 games
        58 tries – Caleb Ralph, from 136 games
        57 tries – Joe Roff, from 86 games
        56 tries – Christian Cullen from 85 games
        56 tries – Bryan Habana, from 118 games
        56 tries – Stirling Mortlock, from 140 games

        and chasing them all down…
        50 tries – Israel Folau, from 83 games

        I think Cullen and Folau stand out as the fullbacks amongst wingers. Joe Roff obvioulsy as well was a phenomenon at super rugby level but only really played fullback in his last season. The rest played a lot more games to be on this list.

        Ben smith btw 33 tries from 130 games…. ahem.. . not anywhere near as good!!!

        • May 20th 2018 @ 10:47am
          Fionn said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:47am | ! Report

          I don’t think Ben Smith’s value is really in scoring tries though.

          He sets up other men far more than Cullen or Folau. He’s more of a playmaking option and an Iceman defensively (defusing high balls, being in position, knowing when to kick and how to and always making cover tackles).

          I suspect Barrett will retire with a match better try scoring rate than Carter, but I don’t think that will make him better. They’re two very different styles of flyhalves.

          Smith and Folau would both make a world 15 in my opinion. It’s just that Smith would be more likely to play fullback and Folau at right wing.

          Hogg would be in the conversation too though…

          • May 20th 2018 @ 4:08pm
            Kane said | May 20th 2018 @ 4:08pm | ! Report

            Good points Fionn

            Exhibit A: his cross field kick try assist to Dixon last night against a team with an additional back

            • May 20th 2018 @ 5:10pm
              RTT said | May 20th 2018 @ 5:10pm | ! Report

              Folau is the better player. He out points Smith in every stat imaginable. Smith just happens to often be on the better team.

              Last night we saw folaunon the better team and he was exponentially better than Ben Smith.

              • May 20th 2018 @ 6:32pm
                CJ said | May 20th 2018 @ 6:32pm | ! Report

                Agreed. Ben Smith is a very well rounded and classy player with a high work rate but Folau is a freakish talent. Both though would complement the other very well actually if they played together.

              • Roar Guru

                May 20th 2018 @ 8:40pm
                Kane said | May 20th 2018 @ 8:40pm | ! Report

                Smith has more Super Rugby drop goals so Folau doesn’t out point him in every stat imaginable.

              • May 20th 2018 @ 10:43pm
                Fionn said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:43pm | ! Report

                Stats are a pretty useless way of determining the better player.

                Smith is better defensively, better positionally, is a much better kicker and is a playmaker.

                Folau is better aerially, has more strength through contact and is better ball in hand.

                Who would you take?

                Ideally both. But otherwise I think it’s hard to argue that Folau is better.

              • May 20th 2018 @ 10:50pm
                Cuw said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:50pm | ! Report

                for what its worth , Foley thinks Ben Smith is the best atm 😀

              • May 20th 2018 @ 10:52pm
                riddler said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:52pm | ! Report

                i am an anti stats person..

                people abuse them for their agendas..

                too much bias..

                i like folau as a player, freakish skils and abilities.. not so much as a person for his rhetoric.. but that is me personally.. no biggie..

                i am though a big fan of ben smith.. great player and a classic fullback for me.. can interchange with wing and can step into 1st receiver when needed..

                and also comes across as a great guy..

                which is my kryptonite with players.. t w a t s .. look at me types.. just don’t do anything for me..

                it is not what our game is about..

                anyone who has played at any level anywhere in the world should understand that..

                not an ego machine.. it is a game to be enjoyed between mates or soon to be mates..

            • Roar Guru

              May 21st 2018 @ 7:37am
              Fox said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:37am | ! Report

              What rubbish – one game proves nothing and especially when Ben Smith went into defensive cover mode down to 13 and 14 men and some of his defence was outstanding

              Ben Smith is the better fullback – far better at reading the game defensively – far better – far better kicking game – excellent under the high ball – very quick with a great step off both feet and he can pass and off-load both sides far better than Folau and he gets far more involved in the game and goes looking for the ball more than Folau and he sets up players outside him and is a far superior positional player as well

              Would you like me to name the game Smith has out played Folau and especially at international level.

              Against the Crusaders Folau went missing in the second half and made some dreadful defensive reads and got caught out of position – a major flaw in his game defensively

              Also Folau has never outplayed Smith at the back when playing the All Blacks – never – but Smith has certainly outplayed him.

              Folau is wonderful talent but he doesn’t have the rugby brain and all round skill that Smith has. Smith has been outstanding this year but hard to get into the game in attack when your side is down to 14 men pretty much the entire game and then 13 for 10 and your job them becomes major cover defence and yet he still made a beautiful kick-pass for a try.

              Give me Smith at fullback every time and put Folau on the wing. Smith would run superb lines that would set Folau up on the flanks and especially with Smith passing and tactical kicking game. And he does not out point Smith in every stats imaginable becuse stats don’t tell you everything about a player.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 11:39am
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:39am | ! Report

                Easily. Folaus good but nothing on Smith as a fullback who is the complete package, especially on defence where Folau flounders and flops around like a wet fish grabbing at players then throwing his arms up wondering how it all happened. Smith will be on the ground giving his all despite the try being scored. Thats the difference. Smiths the hard worker.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 11:43am
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:43am | ! Report

                Smith does things like set up that brilliant RWC final try for Barrett off the counterattack.

                That’s the sort of thing that doesn’t make stats, but it was amazing play from Smith. Never seen Folau do anything like that. And that’s no slight on Folau, it is just something that no one but Smith and maybe Hogg could do.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 4:00pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:00pm | ! Report

                Folau has outplayed Ben smith at test level on atleast half a dozen occasions i can remember, including the world cup final where Smith had a stinker of a match frankly.

                Smith almost single handedly cost them the RWC before dan carter rescued them.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 4:03pm
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:03pm | ! Report

                Folau was playing on one leg and injured the entire RWC.

                Smith set up an incredible counter attacking try to put the game out of reach for Australia.

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 4:10pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:10pm | ! Report

                RWC Stats

                Total Meters
                Folau 107 Smith 73
                Meters per carry
                Folau 6.7 Smith 7.3
                Clean Breaks
                Folau 0 Smith 3
                Defenders Beaten
                Folau 3 Smith 6
                Offloads
                Folau 0 Smith 2
                Turnovers (lost possession)
                Folau 1 Smith 0

                Apart from his yellow card I don’t see a stinker of a game.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 4:26pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

                Apart from his yellow card I don’t see a stinker of a game.

                Indeed, seems he did more with less

              • May 21st 2018 @ 5:47pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:47pm | ! Report

                How about Smiths knock ons and his yellow card.

                Folau had a quiet tournament, he played on one leg, yet still managed to outplay Smith in the RWC final.

                Where did you get those stats?

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 5:55pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:55pm | ! Report

                You’ve just told us He out points Smith in every stat imaginable

                Now you’re backing up having been confronted with stats which prove this incorrect

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:29pm
                James said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:29pm | ! Report

                Smith is more of a team player where as Folau tends to be an individual.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:30pm
                cuw said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:30pm | ! Report

                Actually as far as i recall Smiths best years were at 14 with Dagg at 15.

                I think Dagg set him up for many try in that year he scored like 10 or 11 trys.

                i think it was the same time they experimented with him at 13.

                he had a good 2016 too , again when Dagg came back to the team but this time at 14.

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 7:35pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:35pm | ! Report

          • May 23rd 2018 @ 6:43am
            Coconut said | May 23rd 2018 @ 6:43am | ! Report

            It will take a very long time before anyone equals Dan Carter’s record as the greatest point scorer player of all time…

        • Roar Rookie

          May 20th 2018 @ 5:53pm
          Warpath said | May 20th 2018 @ 5:53pm | ! Report

          of that 50 tries, how many tries against NZ teams? its easy to score tries in the Australian conference but the better stat is how many were against real teams from NZ..his current %ratio is 60% (0.6) , not really that great considering cullen, roff and even latham..only thing good about that stat is that he scored 50 tries in 5 years..

          • May 20th 2018 @ 6:33pm
            Rugby Tragic Too said | May 20th 2018 @ 6:33pm | ! Report

            he’s scored plenty of tries against new zealand opposition in super rugby

            for example you may have noticed he’s scored 3 in the past 2 games against nz opposition

            and in tests for that matter, he’s scored 6 tries from 15 games, which sets him up to probably end up the highest individual try scorer against the all balcks by the time hes finished his career. In terms of wallabies only Campese (8 tries from 29 matches) and AAC (9 tries from 31 matches) are ahead of him that have scored more against the darkness.

            • Roar Guru

              May 20th 2018 @ 8:35pm
              Kane said | May 20th 2018 @ 8:35pm | ! Report

              Only two of those tries had any bearing on the matches. The one in Dunedin last year when they lost.

              Folau’s try started the game for them and gave them a chance to win, and the one in Bled 3 last year where they won.

              The others for example:

              Scoring while down 44-6 after 61min to then lose 51-20,
              scoring with nine to go while down 24-9 to then go down 27-16.
              again scoring while down 41-6 with 4minutes to go to lose 41-13,
              and finally scoring while down 54-27 with 12min to go after being down 54-6 to then lose 54-34

              • May 21st 2018 @ 10:04am
                RTT said | May 21st 2018 @ 10:04am | ! Report

                So only tries scored on the bell matter?

              • May 21st 2018 @ 11:40am
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:40am | ! Report

                No, just the ones that win matches.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 4:01pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:01pm | ! Report

                taylorman try and think about what you’re saying…

                80 minutes of rugby!

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 4:02pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:02pm | ! Report

                No that’s not my point at all.

                If you read my comment I mentioned the one he scored in the loss in Dunedin mattered as it gave them the start that was scored right at the start.

                It wasn’t scored in the last 10 while down by 30 which has zero bearing on the match.

          • May 20th 2018 @ 6:37pm
            Jameswm said | May 20th 2018 @ 6:37pm | ! Report

            You’re a Kiwi right? So hard to tell.

          • May 20th 2018 @ 6:54pm
            cuw said | May 20th 2018 @ 6:54pm | ! Report

            5 years – 80 odd matches .

            these days players have lot more chances to play.

            also if ur in tier 1 country u play at least 10 -12 tests.

            on the other hand look at the Canada captain – 20 odd tests in 5 years.

          • May 20th 2018 @ 7:52pm
            CJ said | May 20th 2018 @ 7:52pm | ! Report

            Yeah, but the better argument would be, it’s easier to score teams for an NZ team against an Oz team? Roff was in a very good Brumbies team. But all three you mention were all awesome players. I think Folau is in their class – not better. Cullen was quickest off the mark, Latham was very innovative and Roff probably the most well rounded. Cullen (at his mid-nineties very best) maybe the MVP of the lot…

            • May 20th 2018 @ 8:17pm
              RTT said | May 20th 2018 @ 8:17pm | ! Report

              For me the easiest way to decide who is best is to simply choose one if you could choose from all of them.

              Folau can do everything the others could do but more on a rugby field. He is without peer in his ability to diffuse high balls and leap to catch high balls in attack.

              The try he scored against Scotland last year for example leaping onto the shoulders of that Scotsman, was out of this world.

              He continues to dominate that facet of rugby like no one else has ever done. He is a class above all others from the list we are discussing.

              • Roar Guru

                May 20th 2018 @ 8:44pm
                Kane said | May 20th 2018 @ 8:44pm | ! Report

                For me the easiest way to decide who is best is to simply choose one if you could choose from all of them.

                Fair, just accept that some will chose different to you.

                Folau can do everything the others could do but more on a rugby field.

                Except a well rounded kicking game and great defensive positioning awareness

                He is without peer in his ability to diffuse high balls and leap to catch high balls in attack.

                Can’t argue with that.

                The try he scored against Scotland last year for example leaping onto the shoulders of that Scotsman, was out of this world.

                Agreed

                He continues to dominate that facet of rugby like no one else has ever done.

                Again I agree

                He is a class above all others from the list we are discussing.

                And this is the part I disagree with

              • May 20th 2018 @ 10:53pm
                Cuw said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:53pm | ! Report

                also Folau must be one of the very few full backs to let guys run around him in cramped spaces.

                but now Speight is doing his best to be even worse 🙂

              • May 21st 2018 @ 10:13am
                RTT said | May 21st 2018 @ 10:13am | ! Report

                I’ve seen Jed Holloway run around Ben Smith. I’ve send Ben Smith knock on, miss tackles, throw passes to no one etc etc I’ve seen Folau outplay him when they’ve lined up against each other. And I’ve seen games where Ben smith has been excellent.

                Difference is the anti Waratah sentiment is so strong that people are looking to pick holes in Folau whereas Ben smiths mistakes go unheralded.

                How did Ben smith play in the World Cup final for instance? Had a stinker of a match but no one criticised him.

                However in the UK they don’t have the bias and in a recent rugby world magaizine article in the top 100 players in world rugby Folau was rated 5th in the world. Ben Smith 47th!

              • May 21st 2018 @ 5:42am
                Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:42am | ! Report

                RTT, mate, can you just flip the record mate.
                We get it. You love Izzy.
                So do we.
                Just stop trying to make things up.

                How many RWC or Bledisloe winning sides has Izzy been in?
                That is the stat most Australian fans are interested in.

                Individual talent p11$$ing contests are pointless.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 10:06am
                RTT said | May 21st 2018 @ 10:06am | ! Report

                You’re talking about who has usually been on the better team..

                I’m talking about the better individual player

                Folau is a lot better than Ben Smith

              • May 21st 2018 @ 10:07am
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 10:07am | ! Report

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 10:31am
                Shane D said | May 21st 2018 @ 10:31am | ! Report

                Cullen scored tries that Folau would never have RTT. By the same token Folau has scored tries that Cullen wouldn’t have.
                Don’t get this whole ‘player a is better that player b’ thing personally.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 11:45am
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:45am | ! Report

                Whereas for RTT its his whole world. To have to argue from an unwinnable position is hilarious. Hes the only one here that thinks Folau is the better fullback. On and on and on… mr essa is back!😆

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 11:53am
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:53am | ! Report

                Folau can do everything the others could do but more on a rugby field. He is without peer in his ability to diffuse high balls and leap to catch high balls in attack.

                Tackle?

                Kick?

                He’s not a patch on Cullen – being good at catching highballs doesn’t relieve you of your defensive responsibilities

              • May 21st 2018 @ 4:02pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:02pm | ! Report

                Folau can’t tackle? he’s played state of origin!

                he can’t kick? he’s played AFL!

              • May 21st 2018 @ 4:04pm
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:04pm | ! Report

                ‘he can’t kick? he’s played AFL!’

                Makes no sense. He sucked at AFL.

                You’d think all professional tennis players should be able to hit forehands and backhands also, but Tsonga and Gonzales had embarrassingly pathetic backhands, and all of Karlovic’s game bar his serve is just awful.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 4:11pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:11pm | ! Report

                Folau can’t tackle? he’s played state of origin!

                he can’t kick? he’s played AFL!

                So?

                League tackling is a very different proposition. He was a winger in league and tackled other wingers – who cares?

                Plenty of AFL players aren’t great kicks

                Now why don’t you tell us how many awards he’s won?

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 5:29pm
                Corne Van Vuuren said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:29pm | ! Report

                This is just turning into my fullback is better than your fullback school yard debate, although if I had to agree with anyone here I would agree with Kane

              • May 21st 2018 @ 5:58pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:58pm | ! Report

                Im not the only one that thinks so.

                take rugby world magazine who say Folau is the 5th best player in the world. Ben Smith is 47th!!!

                The reason is simply because they don’t have the bias clouding their judgement as its a UK magazine.

                And before you say anything no its not just on last years performances because both Folau and Smith had time off.

                it was a general judgement of who are the best players in the world.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 7:08pm
                Shane D said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:08pm | ! Report

                Ahhh the article clearly says it’s based on last seasons form.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 6:05pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:05pm | ! Report

                take rugby world magazine

                You love an argument to higher authority don’t you?

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 6:08pm
                Corne Van Vuuren said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:08pm | ! Report

                Rtt, rugbyworld is just another bunch of blokes with an opinion.

                Best ever. Best 50 whatever, all just a matter of opinion.

                Every player has strengths and weaknesses, and when comparing those strengths and weaknesses who decides which strengths and which weaknesses carry most weight in ultimately getting the honour of being the best?

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:16pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:16pm | ! Report

                Corne the point is I am not alone in believing folau is a far far better player than ben Smith. as has been said in this thread.

                Folau is a top 5 world player.

                Ben Smith is a top 50 world player.

                big difference

                to be fair to Smith the last time he was great was in 2013. But that was 5 years ago. Since then he’s been in Folau’s shadow.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 7:00pm
                Shane D said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:00pm | ! Report

                Can’t be. Wales online had Smith as the 4th best player in the world in July 2017. Folau didn’t make their top 20.
                You are putting a heap on emphasis on Rugby Worlds list. Did you read the actual article? They based it on last seasons test form. About Smith they say “Despite taking a sabbatical, the quiet leader finds himself on this list”.
                Perhaps he is at 47 because he only played 4 tests last season.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 6:25pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:25pm | ! Report

                Folau is a top 5 world player.

                Then you concede that Nakarewa is a better player than Folau

                As is Owen Farrell

                Barrett is obviously a given

                Or do you just like this list because it appears to back you up in this particular argument?

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:37pm
                cuw said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:37pm | ! Report

                ” However in the UK they don’t have the bias and in a recent rugby world magaizine article in the top 100 players in world rugby Folau was rated 5th in the world. Ben Smith 47th! ”

                LOL – and did they not name O Farrell the best in the world and Itoje better than Retallick and Lawes better than Whitelock .. ? 😛

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:41pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:41pm | ! Report

                Is barrett better than farrell?

                i think last years Lions series is a great example of how good Farrell actually is. I have personally witnessed him do the same to win a title for saracens at twickenham quite a few years back and even then for a young man it was impressive. The man has nerves of steal and frankly if I could pick anyone in the world at the moment to kick goals for my life, i’d pick him.

                I think last years lions series also showed us how many of the all blacks are not as good as their fans would have us believe.

                as did the bledisloe series frankly. Apart from the 1st half of that series the wallabies had their measure.

                The all blacks are a sum of their parts, and the sum of their parts makes them the best team in the world..only just… but not every all black is the world best in their position.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:57pm
                cuw said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:57pm | ! Report

                Farrell certainly won the kicking contest in the Lions series

                OF – 11/13

                BB – 15/20

                even the ardent fans of BB wished for Cruden in those moments 😀

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 6:58pm
                Corne Van Vuuren said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:58pm | ! Report

                RTT, who do you believe is the best rugby player on the planet?

                I believe it is Malcolm Marx.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 7:14pm
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:14pm | ! Report

                Farrell in last years Lions series? He was inept in the first test and ok in the others, has the worst tackle of practically any back in world rugby and was terrible in the 6N bar the Welsh match.

                You need to get out more RTT. Farrell has stifled English back play to the point where there isnt any anymore. Hes part of the reason theyre losing now. With Ford hes the english version of Pooper…a poor combination that negates key areas of play.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 7:26pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:26pm | ! Report

                I think malcolm marx is on the rise.

                but would you truly pick him first of all the players you could pick as your 1st choice in the world?

                I know its not exciting but I honestly couldn’t go past Farrell. He’s worth more points than anyone. Holds his nerve every time its needed. Passes, runs and tackles well, kicks out of hand brilliantly, but never ever seems to miss a goal.i think flashy no 10’s are fools gold.

                My 2nd choice would actually be Reiko Ioane, 3rd would be Folau, 4th would be Jonathan Davies, then i’d start picking forwards. probably Hooper, Pocock, Marx, Itoje, Furlong and Nakawara, as my top 10 players in the world.

              • Roar Guru

                May 21st 2018 @ 7:44pm
                Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:44pm | ! Report

                The man has nerves of steal and frankly if I could pick anyone in the world at the moment to kick goals for my life, i’d pick him.

                So you wouldn’t pick Folau?

                I think last years lions series also showed us how many of the all blacks are not as good as their fans would have us believe as did the bledisloe series frankly. Apart from the 1st half of that series the wallabies had their measure.

                Yet over the last three halves of Bledisloe Footy NZ scored more points than Australia?

              • May 21st 2018 @ 7:51pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:51pm | ! Report

                kane yes if i had to pick someone to kick goals for my life id pick farrell over folau.

                The last time the all blacks played the wallabies it was the wallabies that were convincing winners.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 7:59pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:59pm | ! Report

                shane they specifically said it was based on form as obvious precedence but also class which is permanent

                Ben smith is a good player. he aint in the upper echelon though.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 8:04pm
                Shane D said | May 21st 2018 @ 8:04pm | ! Report

                Top 4 less than 12 months ago RTT or do you only refer to sources that fit your narrative?

              • May 21st 2018 @ 8:04pm
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 8:04pm | ! Report

                Five points is never a convincing win. You inflate your own teams successes and players, and undermine others. Oz won, but it meant nothing. They didnt win when they needed to, nor will the win set a precedent for more wins as the Ws will go back to losing to the ABs again.

                So that win was more about the ABs picking their battles, something they have to start doing more of to cover for losing players to the north.

                Win yes, convincing…? Not even close.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 8:35pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 8:35pm | ! Report

                taylorman i was there, it was a convincing win in a test match against the all blacks.

                Folau was instrumental in it.

                deal with it

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 8:54pm
                Shane D said | May 21st 2018 @ 8:54pm | ! Report

                So when Folaus team is the better team that’s evidence that Folau is a better player but when Smiths team is better it’s not? I admire your one eyed dedication to the cause!

              • May 21st 2018 @ 9:00pm
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:00pm | ! Report

                Only in your mind Essa, something you need to deal with every day. If that was ‘Convincing’ what happened in the first bled, and the England and Scotland vs Wallabies then? Close I suppose? Winnable if not for a forward pass perhaps? Geez youre funny.

            • May 20th 2018 @ 10:28pm
              CJ said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:28pm | ! Report

              Of course, as well, Folau never played inside a Merthens or a Spencer or a Larkham. But when he played outside JT at age 18 or whatever he was….

              • May 21st 2018 @ 10:07am
                Fionn said | May 21st 2018 @ 10:07am | ! Report

                Folau would definitely be scoring a lot more if he played on the end of a backline run by Larkham than by Foley.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 11:55am
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:55am | ! Report

                He’s not supposed to be playing ‘inside’ of anyone, he’s supposed to be a bloody fullback.

                You don’t get to claim greatness when you can only do half the job, jump, offload woo that’s great.

                Let’s see him tackle, hit a ruck, kick under pressure

              • May 21st 2018 @ 4:03pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:03pm | ! Report

                Piru he does all of those things… every week

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 4:10pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 4:10pm | ! Report

                Does he do them in a manner befitting the greatest fullback of all time, as we are being told he is?

              • May 21st 2018 @ 5:46pm
                Gavin said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:46pm | ! Report

                Everybody is entitled to their opinion and it is obvious that Rugby Tragic Too is adamant that Folau is his choice for fullback.

                However I feel that Folau talents tend to be over exaggerated when there are other players that preform the same action but are largely ignored.

                George Bridge the Crusaders fullback was outstanding last week catching high kicks and making decisive return runs. In my view he was fair better than Folau yet his performance wasn’t mentioned because he’s not the media favorite..

                When using statics you can use all the good ones but ignore the bad ones.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:01pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:01pm | ! Report

                i agree George Bridge is a good player. I’d have him in my all black squad.

                For that matter I agree Ben Smith is a good player. I agree with Rugby world magazine that he is the 47th best player in the world.

                i agree with them that Folau is the 5th best!

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 6:10pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:10pm | ! Report

                Do you agree with them that Owen Farrell is the best player in the world?

                Or that Leone Nakarawa is number three and ‘best offloader in the world’?

                Dunno about this list tbh mate

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:20pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:20pm | ! Report

                piru there is obvious bias towards british players but on the flip side there is no bias for us antipodeans.

                There is perspective in that for us when we debate who is the better player.

                Ben Smith is second best to Folau, and has been ever since Folau came over to rugby.

                There’s no shame in that.

                Just watch a replay of last weekends game. One guy is in the upper echelon of the best players in the world. The other is Ben Smith.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 6:22pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:22pm | ! Report

                So you believe Owen Farrell to be the best player in the world?

                please confirm

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:51pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:51pm | ! Report

                piru i believe they basically got the top 100 players correct. i might’ve shifted a few players up or down a place or two, (some of the women that were in there i simply don’t know enough about) but I find it a good reference point and a good piece of perspective to subside the natural bias everyone has.

                one must also consider the obvious bias they would have when judging uk players because were all human and sometimes we have our own coloured glasses on.

                but you can not deny that a UK magazine is also not going to look at antipodeans with any bias.

                So to answer your question on farrell. the long answer is If i sat down to pick a world xv i’d find it difficult to leave Farrell out because he has shown time and time again for saracens, engalnd and the lions that he can be the most valuable player in the world.

                if he didn’t play in the lions series, the all blacks win.

                That’s how good he is. Barrett does not have that influence. He’s a front foot player. A flat track bully.

                so my short answer is yes. Farrell is no 1 in the world at the moment.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 6:59pm
                cuw said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:59pm | ! Report

                yet – the only world cup winning coach in England thinks Cipriani is the best 😀

                As they say – opinions are like a–h–es , everyone has got one 😛

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 7:02pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:02pm | ! Report

                but you can not deny that a UK magazine is also not going to look at antipodeans with any bias.

                You also have to admit that they’re more likely to be swayed by high profile players from the SH.

                Folau has his face on every wallaby ad, and most Qantas ones, as with Hooper they are more likely to be aware of him.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 7:28pm
                Rugby Tragic Too said | May 21st 2018 @ 7:28pm | ! Report

                piru rugby world magazine does not deserve that kind of a comment

                i think that is enough from you

                good day

              • May 21st 2018 @ 9:10pm
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:10pm | ! Report

                Barrett has been officially named worlds best player for two years straight. The panel includes several of the worlds greats including Eales from memory.
                So no Farrell is not the best, and hes far from it. Barrett is.

                Deal with it.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 22nd 2018 @ 11:27am
                piru said | May 22nd 2018 @ 11:27am | ! Report

                piru rugby world magazine does not deserve that kind of a comment

                What kind of comment?

                Way to knock over the chess board when you’re losing

    • May 20th 2018 @ 10:14am
      Reverse Wheel said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:14am | ! Report

      Folau won’t get there unless he stays in super rugby. To state the obvious.

      • May 20th 2018 @ 11:02am
        Fionn said | May 20th 2018 @ 11:02am | ! Report

        But if he stays (and he avoids serious injury) it looks like he will get there.

        • May 20th 2018 @ 10:57pm
          Cuw said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:57pm | ! Report

          he will need about 100 games to get to 60 trys at current rate.

          perhaps by the end of next season .

          if he stays in super rugger – then he can go on and make a record that will stay untouched for a long time.

          like Caleb Ralph playing 105 games consecutively ( not mentioning all the records of Dan Carter )

          • Roar Guru

            May 21st 2018 @ 5:20am
            Kane said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:20am | ! Report

            Caleb Ralphs record is phenomenal considering how few games were played back then compared to now, but I saw on Saturday that Hoopers at 70odd consecutive games, a real chance to surpass Ralph

            • Roar Guru

              May 21st 2018 @ 12:10pm
              Wal said | May 21st 2018 @ 12:10pm | ! Report

              Didn’t realise that stat, pretty amazing for not only the position he plays but his size for that position.

              That’s a lot of big bodies smashing you week in week out.

              • May 21st 2018 @ 9:13pm
                Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 9:13pm | ! Report

                Yes agree, at flanker 70 straight is amazing, incredible even.

            • May 21st 2018 @ 5:58pm
              cuw said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:58pm | ! Report

              @ Kane

              perhaps playing less may be the reason he was able to play so long and stay fit.

              did he play test rugger ??

              i always remember him as a 7S specialist.

              he is still a fan favorite in Dubai 😀

    • Roar Guru

      May 20th 2018 @ 10:15am
      Simon Levingston said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:15am | ! Report

      At last a match where the refereeing picked up the rubbish that has been overlooked by many of the mainly NZ referees e.g. look st the missed forward passes, players entering the ruck from the side, lying on the ball, slowing down the ball, late tackles, tackling without the ball and this was just to the Hurricanes vs the Reds.

      The current mix of referees is

      7 – New Zealand
      4 – South Africa
      3 – Australia
      1 – Argentina

      The current system of having NZ referees control so many games is not working, especially when the TMO and the side line referees are also from NZ.

      The referees have so much influence in s game of rugby union it is ridiculous situation to have such an imbalance to one county.

      Super rugby is not working for Australia in its current format. The current format is killing rugby union in Australia.

      In my opinion it is time to pull out of SANZAAR and look for a new model. If NZ doesn’t like the new model it is time to cut lose and go our own way.

      • Roar Rookie

        May 20th 2018 @ 12:16pm
        Paulo said | May 20th 2018 @ 12:16pm | ! Report

        When almost half the refs are NZ it is hard to not have a mostly NZ ref team. The other unions need to work on providing more quality refs so we dont need to use as many NZ ones.

        Also, could we drop this whole biased non-neutral rubbish. Forget where the refs came from and work on improving the performance and decision making on field. Don’t see a lot of biased talk this week even though the ref was a Kiwi (and TMO an Aussie), because the decisions were mostly good. Have a good performance on field and no one should look at nationality.

        • Roar Guru

          May 20th 2018 @ 2:32pm
          The Neutral View From Sweden said | May 20th 2018 @ 2:32pm | ! Report

          Pretty sure that most Blues fans are pi$$ed off with the ref and tmo today. So maybe the Kiwi refs are just overrated?

          • May 20th 2018 @ 3:14pm
            bigbaz said | May 20th 2018 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

            There’s the rub

          • May 20th 2018 @ 3:32pm
            BBA said | May 20th 2018 @ 3:32pm | ! Report

            That’s probably true nobody ever complains about refs when they are not from NZ.

            • May 21st 2018 @ 5:41pm
              Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 5:41pm | ! Report

              Ha ha, you jest? Every ref has been harshly treated on these boards, just google any test ref and you wont take long to see complaints.

          • Roar Rookie

            May 20th 2018 @ 4:01pm
            Paulo said | May 20th 2018 @ 4:01pm | ! Report

            Fair call. Let’s bring on other refs to replace them. Where are they hanging out? I just don’t think there are a lot lining up ready to take over. I don’t care where they come from really, as long as they do the job.

            • Roar Guru

              May 20th 2018 @ 4:15pm
              The Neutral View From Sweden said | May 20th 2018 @ 4:15pm | ! Report

              Rasta Rasivhenge and Shuhei Kubo got matches last year, but this year they only get shots as AR. Bit weird hence both of them seem to be real talents and like to watch games they ref.

              • Roar Guru

                May 20th 2018 @ 5:57pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | May 20th 2018 @ 5:57pm | ! Report

                I like to watch the game the refs… missed a little “I” there.

              • Roar Rookie

                May 20th 2018 @ 7:24pm
                Paulo said | May 20th 2018 @ 7:24pm | ! Report

                Great, but we need more. If we have 4 officials in a team, considering the number of games in a weekend, we need a pretty large pool of refs to make sure we do not have any of the same nationality as a team playing.

              • May 20th 2018 @ 11:07pm
                Cuw said | May 20th 2018 @ 11:07pm | ! Report

                one issue is language – even the two guys from Japan ( Shubo ) and Argie ( Anselemi ) are not very fluent in English , and they are the best available.

                it is an issue also in not Heineken cup and even in test reffing.

                remember the English of the French refs – ” we have a deal “.

                when u put together tournaments things like language also become important.

                i think one issue that is holding back more referees is the redesignation as assistant ref.

                if not for this ” importance ” surely more guys can be given touchie job.

                considering how little they do – guess rookie refs will not be able to do a worse job than now. 😛

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 1:25pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

                considering how little they do – guess rookie refs will not be able to do a worse job than now. 😛

                You’ve not run the lines at any kind of decent level have you?

              • Roar Rookie

                May 21st 2018 @ 6:00pm
                piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 6:00pm | ! Report

                CUW I apologise for the above, that was an unnecessarily rude comment, I didn’t realise how it came out till just now.

                My point was that TJs (or ARs) at higher levels (as opposed to the clubbies) get lumped with all kinds of additional jobs.

                You’re supposed to be watching behind the ball for foul play, marking lines of touch, checking forward passes, knock ons, scrum infringements etc where the ref is unsighted as well as handle substitutions the number 4 and 5 bring to you – there’s nothing worse than repeatedly trying to get the ref’s attention when the comms have gone down and you need to send a sub on. You can guarantee if you just tell him to go play will start again straight away.

        • May 20th 2018 @ 7:42pm
          Hazzmat said | May 20th 2018 @ 7:42pm | ! Report

          Unfortunately in the current setup, when a referee has a perceived howler such as in the Crusaders v Waratahs game last week, it only supports people’s views that the refereeing was biased.

          SANZAAR needs to remember that even though Super Rugby is a province-based competition, the competition does contain teams from five nations so any perceived biased needs to be eliminated from the game.

          Let’s face it, if an SA or Argentine ref was in charge of the Crusaders v Waratahs match last week, I doubt we’d still be talking about it with as much fervour as we are now.

      • May 21st 2018 @ 11:51am
        Taylorman said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:51am | ! Report

        Oh so its now NZs fault that we provide the most refs, most players, best teams that oz should throw their toys cos the cant do match any of it? Oz should instead form a comp of poorer quality players, refs and tesms because if that. Righty i then.

        • Roar Rookie

          May 21st 2018 @ 11:56am
          piru said | May 21st 2018 @ 11:56am | ! Report

          Tman,

          Aussie fans should stop screaming at the refs every time their team loses.. you think their kids are sitting there thinking “I wanna be a ref someday” when they hear this rubbish every weekend?

    • Roar Pro

      May 20th 2018 @ 10:48am
      Andre Leslie said | May 20th 2018 @ 10:48am | ! Report

      I loved Michael Hooper’s comments after the game… where he said he couldn’t care less about the Aussie teams’ losing streak.

      He was so focussed on improving his own team and how that had led to the win.

      I like his no-nonsense style!

    Explore:
    , , ,