Fear of a yellow and black planet: Richmond can be AFL’s next glamour club

Josh Elliott Editor

By Josh Elliott, Josh Elliott is a Roar Editor


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    One of my personal favourite memories as a footy fan is North Melbourne’s 2015 elimination final win over the Richmond Tigers.

    I distinctly remember sitting down at the Pancake Parlour in Melbourne Central (I’m a lifelong pancake lover) on the Saturday beforehand and reading every article in the paper related to the game.

    There were plenty – and they were all of them about the Tigers. All of them declared how Richmond, finally, were ready to break their finals duck.

    I probably read 20 or 30 articles about the game in advance of it that week. And the only one I found about North was a half-hearted attempt to explain why so little of the coverage was about North (and in looking to make this explanation, talked mostly about Richmond).

    I went to the MCG with a feeling of absolute certainty that Tiger-loving news pundits be damned, this was going to be North Melbourne’s day.

    The North banner proudly stated “Tigers don’t win finals – we do!” on one side, and “NMFC welcome refugees” on the other. Never has a club banner inspired more pride in me.

    I had managed to secure a seat in North’s cheersquad bay and had just about the best view of the action you could ask for in an MCG packed with more than 90,000 fans.

    The first half wasn’t the ideal start though – Richmond kicked nine goals to six and came away with a 13-point advantage at the halftime break.

    I knew from watching the game that despite the scoreboard, we had been the better team. We had two more scoring shots and many of Richmond’s goals had come from free kicks – not that the free kicks weren’t there, but the Tigers weren’t setting up genuine opportunities, they were being given them by a few poor mistakes.

    Coach Damien Hardwick even said sometime after that the coaching team knew the halftime lead was a “false positive”. They were being outplayed by the Roos, it just wasn’t reflected on the scoreboard yet.

    In the second half, it was. North kicked five goals to three in the third quarter to take a four-point lead, then four to two in the final term to run out the winners by 17.

    There are key moments from that day that I have remembered with a smile on my face since and will do so for years to come.

    Robin Nahas catching Troy Chaplin with the ball. Jarrad Waite kicking four to sink the Tigers’ finals hopes (and not for the first time). Brent Harvey revving up the celebrating North cheersquad post-game after every other player had left the ground.

    In the end though, nothing could beat the satisfaction of knowing that, despite the hype, Richmond were just not that good, and it had been my team who was lucky enough to deliver the AFL world a reminder of that.

    Does that make me sound like a classic North fan with a chip on my shoulder hating the big, much-talked-about Tiges? Probably not an unfair label. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a bit of footy schadenfreude every now and then if you know where the line is.

    At the time Richmond were my most hated opposition team, the one I loved beating the most.

    It frustrated me that I had never in my life seen them do anything worthwhile on the footy field, but they still got ten times the press of my beloved North, who were a halfway decent team at the time but getting little to no love for it.

    Those days are over now, because in 2017, after 37 years of slumber, the sleeping giant finally stopped hitting the snooze button.

    Richmond Tigers Grand Final AFL 2017

    (AAP Image/Julian Smith)

    The story of Richmond’s 2017 campaign has been told and retold enough times that there’s no particular need for me to go into it here.

    Besides, it’s not like there’s even the remotest chance I could ever sum it up half as good as Jay Croucher’s epic longread “Destruction Tour: How the Tigers eviscerated the rest of the AFL and everything we thought we knew”.

    (Give it another read, Tiger fans. You know you want to.)

    What is interesting to me lately is not just the fact that Richmond won in 2017, but how they’ve turned that victory into the launching pad for what could be an era of absolute domination.

    For the last decade or so, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have been the ‘glamour’ clubs of the competition.

    These teams have won a remarkable nine of the last 13 premierships, with West Coast, Collingwood, the Bulldogs and now the Tigers the only other teams to taste flag success in that time.

    Since 2006, the Hawks, Cats and Swans have qualified for finals 29 times out of a possible 33. They’re all in with a strong chance of playing in September again this year.

    When a smaller club wins a flag, we often ask the question of whether or not they can convert their success into becoming a larger fixture in the AFL landscape.

    It was asked of North Melbourne when they won two in four years in the late 1990s and it might well have happened if the club’s greatest era hadn’t been derailed by scandal shortly after.

    It was asked of the Western Bulldogs in 2016 but it doesn’t look like happening. The Dogs just didn’t have a list ready for sustained success.

    Richmond, though? Richmond have taken their breakthrough flag as a chance to move permanently up the AFL foodchain. Perhaps right to the very top.

    Case in point: this year they’ve signed up 97,331 members. That’s an improvement 24,662 on their 2017 numbers.

    Their new members alone outnumber the entire membership base of the Gold Coast Suns (11,477) or the Greater Western Sydney Giants (23,332), and are so very, very close to also overtaking the Brisbane Lions (24,730).

    They made a profit of $3 million last year, have cash reserves of nearly $10 million, and a net asset position of $27 million. They’ll probably make an even bigger profit in 2018, considering membership is up by 33 per cent.

    Oh, and did I mention that they’re (well, I’m tipping this at least) going to go back-to-back this year? There’s maybe one team in the comp who has half a chance of knocking them off at the MCG (more on that some other week), and they’re a serious longshot.

    They’ve even gotten pretty hard to hate these days. It’s difficult not to respect the leadership of Trent Cotchin, the class of Alex Rance, the passion of Jack Riewoldt, the power of Dustin Martin, the flair of Daniel Rioli.

    More than anything else, I see a bond between the playing group as strong as any that has ever been, and I admire it – am sometimes even blown away by it.

    Nothing sums it up better than the great man Cam Rose’s latest Twitter bio: “The old Richmond can’t come to the phone right now.”

    Why? Oh… cause it’s dead!

    In short: the Tigers are poised to become the AFL’s apex predator. And they might be big enough to dominate the league to an extent that no club before them ever has.

    Dustin Martin

    (Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images)

    How will we know? A second flag will go a long way, but the real race for supremacy might be found in October instead of September.

    Right now, Tom J Lynch is deciding between Melbourne’s three biggest clubs – Collingwood, Hawthorn and the Tiges – for where he’ll play his footy in 2018.

    (I guess he could also be considering staying with Gold Coast, if you happen to believe in the tooth fairy and other such things.)

    Each club has its own drawcards.

    Hawthorn has Alastair Clarkson, the best coach in the league. They also have, as pointed out by Mitch Cleary this week, some good history in keeping players on the park – of worthwhile consideration to a bloke whose season has ended early with a PCL injury.

    Collingwood has both the allure of Lynch being able to play for the team he grew up supporting, and the promise of direct access to the opportunity to build a massive media profile through the assistance of club president Eddie McGuire.

    Richmond, well, Richmond has everything I’ve already said here.

    Which would you pick if you’re a footy player right now – not just wanting to have some success in what’s left of your career, but also hoping to set yourself up for life after footy by building your public profile and gaining some valuable media experience?

    There are other machinations that come into it of course – most of the salary cap variety. It sounds like both Collingwood and Richmond will have to accept losing other players if they’re to sign Lynch, so at some point one or both of those clubs is going to have to choose to bite the bullet.

    We’ll talk about that another week, too.

    But if you were to pick right now which club you’d like to be the face of, which will be the dominant club in Victorian football for the next five or so years to come? You’d find it hard to say no to Richmond.

    And if that happens, Heaven help us all. We’ve seen how Hawthorn and Geelong have been able to maintain sustained success by continuing to attract top-tier talent home to Victoria from interstate.

    The Swans have done plenty in this respect too – and their success in luring players has been all the more admirable for the fact that moving to NSW goes against the grain for many, and that the AFL has actively tried to block them from doing it.

    If the Tigers rise to the top of the pecking order for incoming trade talent – of which, it seems, there will always be plenty – then be afraid, very afraid.

    We’re looking at a Tiger Time with length like a Westeros Winter.

    Josh Elliott
    Josh Elliott

    Josh Elliott may be The Roar's Weekend Editor, but at heart he's just a rusted-on North Melbourne tragic with a penchant for pun headlines - and also abnormal alliteration, assuredly; assuming achievability. He once finished third in a hot chilli pie eating contest. You can follow him on Twitter @JoshElliott_29 and listen to him on The Roar's AFL Podcast.

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    The Crowd Says (167)

    • July 4th 2018 @ 7:20am
      Milo said | July 4th 2018 @ 7:20am | ! Report

      Thanks Josh, I just remember 74 too and the headline cant be a bad thing either right? No need to fear a yellow and black planet. Welcome it with open arms!

      Right now Tiger supporters are loving the ride but deep down we know the path’s not set in stone, nor is the destination certain. To quote Freddie: Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? (or are we just…) caught in a landslide…?

      To my untrained yellow and black eye there’s almost a tacit conspiracy happening here. Those in press and media who’ve always hated the Tigers and their long suffering Army seem now focused on building them up to unsustainable heights in an effort to have them devour their own press and explode, tumbling back down the ladder where they supposedly belong. They cant write/say anything substantially critical so instead do the opposite in the macabre hope that by so doing the explosion will be larger and they can feast on the remnants for years to come.

      But this seems a different RFC than the one Ive known. Even from the one that won five flags in 13 years. There’s a solidarity there and a quiet resolve to continue to improve, to build and to never be satisfied. There’s no doubt that emanates from the trio of Gale, O’Neal and Balme (more recently) but seems to have infiltrated all corners of the locker room.

      There’s still eight weeks of H&A left in the season and the Tigers arent even assured of top four let alone top two. (I’ll concede we should maket the eight – but who knows). We’ve matches against a resurgent Crows hell bent on proving they can dominate the Tigers on the G, a Giants team at Spotless finally on the march and getting injured players back, the current high flying Magpies, the Cats who the Tigers havent beaten thrice in a row this century, the Dons who have finally clicked and even the Dogs who are playing with a freedom and ferocity of mid 2016 again.

      So to paraphrase Samuel Clemens: “The reports of Our Dominance are greatly exaggerated.”

      Lets put the lid back on Tiges, head down and focus on the Crows. Nowt else.

      Yellow & Black.

    • Roar Guru

      July 4th 2018 @ 7:49am
      Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 7:49am | ! Report

      The Tigers are certainly poised to go back to back but what some forget is that they are actually (new franchise sides aside) the worst performing club in the AFL era. Not one of the worst, but THE worst in relation to finals performances and ladder positions. If they do go back to back, will the 2017-2018 flags erase 37 years of pain? For the Doggies fans, did 2016 erase 62 years of pain? We just expect Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast and the Swans to contend each year and for the most part they do.The Tigers have a way to go to join the perennial contenders yet.

      • July 4th 2018 @ 9:10am
        truetigerfan said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:10am | ! Report

        HTH is back. Hello, Harry. Just can’t help yourself, dude.

        • July 4th 2018 @ 10:21am
          Milo said | July 4th 2018 @ 10:21am | ! Report

          TTF the dude is right. The real favourites are the Collingwoods.

          Coming from 13th like the Tigers, getting a new bunch of assistants (like the Tigers) to support a beleagured coach (like the Tigers), rocketing up the ladder (like the Tigers) but not beating the top side who every one thought would win the flag (like the Crows)…

          yes its hard to see the Magpies not winning it from here. With a side like this youd reckon theyd go close to equalling if not bettering their world record run btwn 27-30…

          • Roar Guru

            July 4th 2018 @ 11:45am
            Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 11:45am | ! Report

            At the completion of round 15 in 2017, Richmond were 4th at 9-5 with a % of 112.2
            At the completion of round 15 in 2018, GWS sit 6th at 8-5-1 with a % of 113.7
            At the completion of round 15 in 2018, Pies sit 2nd at 10-4 with a % of 121.9
            At the completion of round 15 in 2018, North sit 9th at 8-6 with a % of 113.4

            What does all that mean? Well it’s all about timing. The Tigers got belted by St Kilda by 67 points in round 16 last year then went on to beat mostly lowly sides in their run home including Brisbane, Gold Coast, Fremantle and St Kilda in the repeat round 23. They ended up with just 15 wins for the year and a low % of 118.3 then went nuts in the finals.
            Based on above, even North could win the flag this year. The difference is last year there was no stand out side. Adelaide and Geelong topped the ladder also with 15 wins. This year we do have a standout side and that is the Tigers so it’s not so much that even North can’t make the GF, it’s who can beat the Tigers at the G on GF day? A blowout GF looms potentially the worst since Geelong humiliated Port Adelaide by 119 points in 2007.

        • Roar Guru

          July 4th 2018 @ 12:04pm
          Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:04pm | ! Report

          I just posed the question philosophically TrueTiger. I was around in the Pies era where we went 32 years without a flag plus the pain of constant close calls in Grand Finals. After 1990, it did help, after 2010 it did help but the pain of particularly lost GF’s remains. My question is what constitutes enough modern success to overwrite the pain altogether? Is it just if you are lucky enough to be of age in a golden era? The flags of the Pies back in the 20’s and 50’s mean nothing to me clearly. I’ve seen just two flags in my lifetime of Pies devotion. Richmond fans of my vintage would have been old enough to enjoy maybe 1980 but then went an astonishing long time without both flags and finals after the 82 GF loss. I’d be interested in Hawks fans who went themselves 17 years without flags and have been spoilt rotten since or Cats fans who went 44 years without before themselves being spoilt rotten. It is a philosophical question that perhaps you can’t answer. How many flags erases the pain of being tormented by other footy fans for your finals absence and flag absence? One? Two?

          • July 4th 2018 @ 2:55pm
            andyl12 said | July 4th 2018 @ 2:55pm | ! Report

            Peter, I am a Hawthorn fan.

            The main thing about 2008 was that I got to enjoy it as an adult- I’d been 11 for our previous one so alcohol wasn’t really my thing then. I spent much of that 17 years unsure if we’d win one before I was an old man- after all, the wisdom in the early-mid 00’s was that only Carl/Coll/Ess could ever win flags out of the Victorian clubs- the other clubs wouldn’t be killed off but simply wouldn’t be able to spend on all the stuff that fell outside the salary cap.

            After ’08 I felt we’d win more, although I didn’t feel any could be as sweet as that perfect upset. Though I’d now say the sweetness in ’14 and ’15 was pretty comparable.

            Because we’ve won a flag in each of the last six decades (no other side has ever done this), the ’91-’08 drought is fairly insignificant in my mind. The only thing that sticks is that more than once in that time we had to recover from a disastrous off-field situation, and that our character in doing so is what makes us a model club (something accepted by many of our rivals).

            • Roar Guru

              July 4th 2018 @ 5:57pm
              Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 5:57pm | ! Report

              Thanks Andy, good comment. You are quite right. really 17 years is nothing and then you even have the memories of the other flags as a kid. Hawthorn just don’t keep their fans waiting for long and will probably play finals again this year. IMO the mark of a good club is to at least be in contention for a flag each decade and by that I mean top 4 and not going out in straight sets. The Hawks clearly sit way ahead of anyone else, perhaps the Cats with their three and the perennial challengers WCE and the Swans on the next rung. For Hawthorn fans to have had four in 10 years, I find it hard to even understand just how good that feels as a tortured Pies fan. it’s kind of like Austin Powers…..when he upped his ante. How can one imagine that kind of feeling?

              • July 5th 2018 @ 8:54am
                andyl12 said | July 5th 2018 @ 8:54am | ! Report

                Do you remember all of Collingwood’s GF loss run going back to 1960?

                The difference for us Hawks fans was that (a) 17 years is much less than 32 and (b) there weren’t so many missed opportunities in that time. The only real heartbreak was in 2001 but TBH we were anything but flag material from June-August that year- the heartbreak was more that we fell backwards in 2002 when we should’ve been a team on the up.

                I lived in London for most of the ’04-’06 season so I missed out on the embarrassment of the Schwab sacking, the line in the sand and all that. But ’08 was so sweet because for a long time I felt I’d been too young to properly enjoy Hawthorn’s greatest era and now I might get to see an even greater one.

                Whether the Clarkson era trumps the Jeans/Joyce era is still a matter for debate IMO. But no longer do I feel unlucky to have been born when I was.

            • Roar Guru

              July 5th 2018 @ 11:46am
              Peter the Scribe said | July 5th 2018 @ 11:46am | ! Report

              No Andy the only GF losses I can remember clearly started in 77. I was too young (thank god) for 1970. So 77, 79, 80, 81, 2002,2003,2011. So I have experienced 2 flags and 7 GF losses. In the same era Sydney have won 2 lost 4 GF’s so that’s the only side causing as much GF heartbreak that I can see at a quick glance. The talk is that the Tom Hafey Pies were getting to GF’s they perhaps weren’t good enough for in the 77-81 era but hell we drew 77, lost 79 by 5 pts and led 81 at 3/4 time by ten points so all could have been wins. In 2002 we lost to the rampaging Lions by 9 points and in the first half of 2011 Clokey was destroying the Cats before the Cats came over the top to win easy in the last.

          • July 4th 2018 @ 3:17pm
            Neil from Warrandyte said | July 4th 2018 @ 3:17pm | ! Report

            I’m probably a bit older then you Peter, as I’ve seen all 5 premierships between 67 and 80 and became a bit accustomed to continued success, to the point where it didn’t mean that much to me anymore. Instead of the usual 12-15 matches that I’d attend, I’d only go to around 6 or so during the 80’s, not because we weren’t as successful anymore, more so because we’d been there and done that for so long before.
            That was until my 4 children were born, which renewed my passion again, as I longed for them to also witness that success again with me by their side. For too long they were tormented by the team’s performance and by their peers, to the point where they questioned why they bothered.
            For me personally, the one flag last year was enough, and to see the joy in their faces was a priceless moment that I’ll never forget. For them however, they want to experience more, but the joy is never the same as the first.

            • July 4th 2018 @ 4:18pm
              Slane said | July 4th 2018 @ 4:18pm | ! Report

              Really good comment, Neil.

            • Roar Guru

              July 4th 2018 @ 6:09pm
              Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 6:09pm | ! Report

              Wow Neil, great comment. I too have an in law who sounds very similar to you. His son was born in 1982 the year you lost the Grannie to the Blues. By the time he really had passion for the sport he was ten maybe so 1992, saw finals in 95 and 2001 before waiting for the Hardwick era, finally getting his flag last year at 35 years of age. His son too questioned why he bothered going to the footy, lost a bit of interest, etc finally got the elusive flag last year. I wonder how your comment of the era between 67 and 80 would relate to Hawks fans now who have their four in ten years. Did they get a bit nonchalant by 2015? It’s a great story seeing the joy with your kids and you may well be sharing another flag with them this year.

          • July 5th 2018 @ 9:01am
            Paul Gunther said | July 5th 2018 @ 9:01am | ! Report

            2017 was enough for me Peter. Absolutely beautiful. Despite everything that has happened in my 46 years as a Richmond supporter, nothing has ever wavered my passion and love for the Yellow and Black. Winning the premiership was one of the sweetest moments of my life. It meant so much for me being able to share the ride to the GF with my kids and the day with my sister. But it takes more than premierships to build a strong, dedicated and passionate supporter base, otherwise we would all just switch our support to the current premiers.

            • Roar Guru

              July 5th 2018 @ 11:52am
              Peter the Scribe said | July 5th 2018 @ 11:52am | ! Report

              Reminiscent of the Pies in 1990 Paul. 32 year gap for us, mad passionate supporter base underneath. I guess the difference philosophically really is the close GF’s the Pies lost though if you take it back to Prelims, how many sides have got done by a few points in the prelim to the eventual winner? The what if’s are part of what makes our game great IMO. What if the bounce was kinder to Milne in the drawn 2010 GF?
              2017 for the Tigers was also that you stormed from a 15 win 118% season to steamroll everyone in the finals IMO that kind of made that whole final series an upset though you were never seriously challenged. The AFL script was meant to be Dogs 2016, Tigers 2017, Demons 2018 but can’t see that now.

    • July 4th 2018 @ 9:01am
      penguin said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:01am | ! Report

      Great article Josh. As a Swans supporter we rarely see the hype of Melbourne – AFL is on page 6 or lower of the sports pages. And the contract for the MCG for the next billion years is a slap in the face of a true national competition. Nonetheless I admire Richmond and the way they have gone about it. Hardwick is a likeable coach who has turned around his club and they play a great brand. They are my tip for the flag too, but I really hope that they and their supporters don’t develop the arrogance that some other clubs have displayed.

      • July 4th 2018 @ 11:26am
        Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 11:26am | ! Report

        “And the contract for the MCG for the next billion years is a slap in the face of a true national competition.”

        Seriously, can we all stop with this sort of whinging?

        The biggest slap in the face for the AFL is when cities other than Melbourne stay wedded to second-rate stadiums yet still want the benefits that come with having a first-rate stadium. It’s only fair that the AFL makes their views known to such cities.

        • Roar Rookie

          July 4th 2018 @ 11:54am
          Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 11:54am | ! Report

          Australia’s 2 best stadiums are in sa and wa, the biggest is in Melbourne.

        • Roar Guru

          July 4th 2018 @ 12:04pm
          AdelaideDocker said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:04pm | ! Report

          Um, what?

          As Matti says above, the biggest stadium is in Melbourne. The (subjectively, of course)best stadiums are in Adelaide + Perth. I can’t think of any “second-rate” stadiums in major cities. The Gabba isn’t too good from what I’ve heard, but all the others are above average.

          That’s an entirely silly argument, Reservoir.

          • July 4th 2018 @ 12:23pm
            Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:23pm | ! Report

            By “best stadiums” I assume you both mean the ones with the most modern facilities.

            But modern facilities matter little to the 40,000-50,000 fans- most of whom would be die-hard club members- who would miss out on tickets if the Grand Final was held at these stadiums.

            WA and SA could’ve built 100K stadiums with these same facilities. Were it not for small-town attitudes and a desire to go cheap, they probably would have.

            • Roar Guru

              July 4th 2018 @ 12:34pm
              AdelaideDocker said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:34pm | ! Report

              I cannot speak for Perth, Adelaide doesn’t need a 100,000 seat stadium. Logistically, you’d never get the space for 100,000 people in that space.

              I don’t think it’s a small town attitude, it’s literally the fact that that area probably wouldn’t handle 100,000 people in a single night.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 4th 2018 @ 12:45pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:45pm | ! Report

                The thing with Perth and Adelaide is we don’t need to cater for the mcc .
                Aylett tried his best to one day break the issue but unfortunately it never came to pass.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 12:55pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:55pm | ! Report

                “The thing with Perth and Adelaide is we don’t need to cater for the mcc ”

                Both venues have all-access memberships that take up a good chunk of their seating area. Whether the membership is titled “MCC” is hardly relevant.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 4th 2018 @ 1:06pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:06pm | ! Report

                Do they lol I know plenty of ppl who’ve shelled out for eagles and dockers membership but not to many for all access pass, face it the toffs at the MCC call the shots and its quite embarrassing the working man allows this to happen.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 1:12pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:12pm | ! Report

                There are plenty of toffs in Perth. Like Gina Rinehart.

                This doesn’t have to be a class war. Just a debate about whether a 100K or 60K stadium can fit more football fans in.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 4th 2018 @ 1:36pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:36pm | ! Report

                I thought it was you chest beating and saying the MCG is the better stadium.
                If you subtract MCC and coteries then hey presto.
                It isn’t class warfare its fairly factual that MCC members aren’t the strugglersof the working world and coterie members are more likely to be high earners aswell, you obviously believe they should be catered for personally I think its another cop out.
                Ayllett saw the writing on the wall and tried his best to cease the control the MCC has on football but ppl obviously think a cricket club should have a controlling say on the direction footy goes.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 1:17pm
                Milo said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:17pm | ! Report

                M6x6 You really shouldnt comment on stuff youve no clue about.

                “the toffs at the MCC call the shots and its quite embarrassing the working man allows this to happen.”

                Most of the MCC members are just working people who were lucky enough to have parents/friends who nominated them for membership years ago.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 4th 2018 @ 1:28pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:28pm | ! Report

                I see, so its a country club style situation that people who work and belong to a certain socio economic class can afford to have….

              • July 4th 2018 @ 1:39pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:39pm | ! Report

                M6x6, if you’re going to insist on a class war then tell us the following:

                *What class were you born into?
                *What class do you currently consider yourself to be a part of?
                *Do you aspire to be in a different class to the one you are currently in?
                *How do you treat members of other classes?
                *What place- if any- do you feel members of other classes should have in football?
                *Assuming you have working-class friends, how would you react if one of them bought an all-access membership to Optus Stadium?

              • Roar Rookie

                July 4th 2018 @ 4:36pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 4:36pm | ! Report

                Middle class, working class, no as I’m happy, as I’m in contact and have friends from all classes I have zero issues, football and watching your team in a gf should be open to all(due to the arrangement it isn’t and never will be), a working class person could not afford such a luxury as they have more pressing concerns with their money.

              • Roar Guru

                July 4th 2018 @ 3:18pm
                Col from Brissie said | July 4th 2018 @ 3:18pm | ! Report

                Matti, correct me if I am wrong but an All Access membership at Optus costs $6k per year whereas an MCC membership is $675 per year after an initial joining fee of $900.

                Both memberships are full and you have to go on waiting lists now.

              • Roar Guru

                July 4th 2018 @ 3:25pm
                AdelaideDocker said | July 4th 2018 @ 3:25pm | ! Report

                I think you’re correct Col.

                Then again, there’s only 1,300ish of the ‘BankWest Memberships’ available. I presume there’d be more than than at both the MCC and in Adelaide.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 4th 2018 @ 4:46pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 4:46pm | ! Report

                Both are a luxury the normal bloke could afford.
                My issue col is the MCC world’s to much influence on the direction the afl takes and locking it in for the extended period is bad policy. God atleast its slightly better than 1996 when wce had to play a home final at the MCG because of a MCC demand of having 1 final per week.
                Anyone who thinks the MCC doesn’t create part of the system that they financially benefit from is burying their head from a truth so inconvenient al gore will probably produce a doco about it.

              • Roar Guru

                July 4th 2018 @ 3:50pm
                Cat said | July 4th 2018 @ 3:50pm | ! Report

                I suspect those stadium, if they suddenly found themselves hosting GF’s regularly would seek to increase these ‘all access’ memberships substantially.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 4:20pm
                Slane said | July 4th 2018 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

                It’s the waiting list for the MCC that’s the killer. It’s reasonably priced, but if your parents didn’t put you on the list at birth you might as well not even bother signing up.

              • July 5th 2018 @ 2:12am
                Reservoir Animal said | July 5th 2018 @ 2:12am | ! Report

                OK M6x6, here’s an idea- why don’t SA and WA build 100K stadiums, reserve 95K of those seats for people other than ground members, make ticket prices for those 95K seats cheap, and use this apparent egalitarian-ness as justification for taking the Grand Final (and numerous other major events) off the MCG?

                That’s right, because SA and WA don’t actually care about the “working man” any more than the MCC does. In fact, I’d argue they care less, given that the MCC has 75,000 seats for people other than ground members, and also has better public transport facilities (something highly important for those who can’t afford a car) than most other venues in the country.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 5th 2018 @ 10:44am
                Mattician6x6 said | July 5th 2018 @ 10:44am | ! Report

                So amongst what is a nah nah nah nah nah comment by yourself ra and nothing more I will remind you that if you subtract MCC, coteries and corporates you will find that wa and sa are more than capable of hosting. The public transport debate you are suddenly injecting shows me you have little understanding of location of these stadiums or fact there are are multiple public transport options in Perth that do take patrons right outside the complex via bus or a short walk from two train stations
                In Perth you also have the major hotel of the city next door to the stadium so just another option that could be utilized by ppl travelling.
                Fact is the afl got into a situation where catering for MCC members became an issue and the promise of tourism dollars for the Vic govt for an extended period was enough to make them bedfellows. Issue that arises is over such a period it will be unsustainable and with wce, adl, fre, port and Syd in all likelihood being integral to the financial viability of the comp the decision is one that may possibly kill the goose.

              • July 5th 2018 @ 11:15am
                Reservoir Animal said | July 5th 2018 @ 11:15am | ! Report

                “if you subtract MCC, coteries and corporates”

                *You can’t subtract corporates from the Grand Final. There would be lawsuits galore.
                *You can’t subtract MCC either. The same thing exists at every venue in the country, just under a different name.
                *Coteries- not sure here. But unless you provide detailed analysis I’ll assume you have no case to advance, given your record.

                “here are are multiple public transport options in Perth that do take patrons right outside the complex via bus or a short walk from two train stations”

                From what I’ve heard it takes over 80 minutes to get a sellout crowd onto all the buses. Please provide evidence if I’m wrong.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 5th 2018 @ 11:58am
                Mattician6x6 said | July 5th 2018 @ 11:58am | ! Report

                You’re wrong, buses to the various locations around the greater metro area leave every 5 mins, rather regularly don’t you think considering all options available.
                Now if I’m not mistaken a very small % of seats are available to members/fans of the competing sides at a exorbitant price.
                The optus stadium members are minor in comparison to MCC members so is not a point worthy of discussion.
                Your comment of lawsuits galore just adds weight to my view that this deal is in no way to support your average footy fan so thanks.
                Coeteries etc you will find multiple afl released figures and ticketing breakdowns online consider it a project.

              • Roar Guru

                July 5th 2018 @ 11:54am
                Peter the Scribe said | July 5th 2018 @ 11:54am | ! Report

                Yes Slane and that is why it is frustrating to see MCC members leaving empty seats for big games when they hit the snowfields instead.

              • Roar Guru

                July 5th 2018 @ 12:10pm
                Cat said | July 5th 2018 @ 12:10pm | ! Report

                For 2017 AFL Grand Final:

                1. Competing Club Members 16,000 – 35,000
                2. AFL Clubs (18) 0 – 10,000
                3. MCC Reserve 16,000 – 26,000
                4. AFL Members 13,000 – 23,000
                5. AFL/Medallion Club Members 3,000 – 5,000
                6. AFL Entitlements/Contractual Obligations 5,000 – 30,000
                7. Competing Clubs 0 – 5,000
                Total 100,000 (approx)

                $150-$410 depending on category is not ‘exorbitant’ either.

              • July 5th 2018 @ 12:14pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 5th 2018 @ 12:14pm | ! Report

                It’s pretty clear you can’t prove anything to me.

                But even if you put aside all the issues I raised, there is the other question of how any state or city could organise a Grand Final with a week’s notice? This is not just some random game of tiddlywinks that we’re talking about.

                There is the “Super Bowl option” of awarding the event on a rotational basis around the country with bids submitted and awarded years in advance. Something tells me this method wouldn’t satisfy you.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 5th 2018 @ 12:47pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 5th 2018 @ 12:47pm | ! Report

                Nah that would be OK, thing you have forgotten is this conversation started by your extremely naive statement that the MCG was the best stadium, I countered it was the biggest but in no way the best and if we where to subtract certain groups the afl pander to adl and Perth clearly have the facilities to hold such an event successfully especially if the afl cared about the common footy fan.
                Cat- it is exorbitant and with all other costs associated with businesses local and multi national making hay it is a fairly difficult and costly process for fans from WA to attend.
                RA-As I’ve said before on the roar I am OK with it being at the MCG but when your arguments are clap trap and ever changing as they have been during this exchange it does show me that amongst the chest beating a light bulb has gone off and you are suddenly aware the recent deal was shady and benefits one state only.

              • July 6th 2018 @ 12:01am
                Reservoir Animal said | July 6th 2018 @ 12:01am | ! Report

                Nothing clap-trap about my arguments, just that there are umpteen reasons to keep the game at the G and they’re too much to bring up in one post.

                The AFL know that if they only do what’s good for one state then the other states would break away and form a national comp on their own terms. That’s why they give some advantages to some states and other advantages to other states. Balancing it out isn’t always easy but there’s a reason why AFL is the country’s number one football code.

                I can’t wait until the day when every state (barring Tasmania) has a 100K football stadium. By god that would make the code an unbelievable spectacle.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 6th 2018 @ 9:51am
                Mattician6x6 said | July 6th 2018 @ 9:51am | ! Report

                How? Multiple games every year played in front of 1/4 filled stadiums isn’t good for the comp.
                Wce would continue being the only club capable of getting in close to sellouts each home game regardless of opposition.
                The afl knew the Vic govt would offer financial support to keep the many cement blocks of the comp floating that are Vic based for what is an investment in tourism dollars which with a lack of large scale Industry is what keeps the Victorian economy going ( won’t have unfair gst distro for much longer).
                The advantages of having it at the MCG benefits one state only and no matter how many snipes you make about small towns, trading hours (obviously never been to London as our trading hrs are longer) etc show to me your argument are a paper bag filled with water.

              • July 6th 2018 @ 10:39am
                Reservoir Animal said | July 6th 2018 @ 10:39am | ! Report

                I’ve been to London and believe me a night out there is 100 times more fun than a night out in Perth. The Northbridge fishbowl and its dominance by Ben Cousins and John Kizon doesn’t really do it for me.

                WA has a history of threatening secessions and breakaways but then they realise it’s not really in their interests. Seems like this time they’ve used the threats to bribe the Feds into giving them excessive GST revenue but we all know they won’t use the money to build a stadium worthy of an AFL Grand Final. Similarly, the West Coast Eagles would’ve gone down the WA path of forming a breakaway football comp by now if they genuinely thought they deserved better.

              • July 6th 2018 @ 11:13am
                Jon Boy said | July 6th 2018 @ 11:13am | ! Report

                Res, you have lost it mate like Don Freo your . starting to waffle crap……….Night out in London, get real who cares…… stick to the footy.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 6th 2018 @ 12:43pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 6th 2018 @ 12:43pm | ! Report

                Jonboy somehow he has tried to turn a snipe about trading hours into a different subject altogether.
                Can you imagine if gf was in WA ppl could make a week of it visit the wineries, world class restaurants, surfers the many renowned breaks and let’s not forget the fishing north of Perth.
                Melbourne is a nice city but red needs to sto speaking as if it’s one of the great metropolises of this planet.

              • July 6th 2018 @ 12:53pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 6th 2018 @ 12:53pm | ! Report

                Of course there are metropolises outside Australia that are far more fun to visit than Melbourne, but nobody proposes holding the Grand Final in another country (or do they?).

                I don’t think any other city deserves the Grand Final more than Melbourne, but I reserve special criticism for WA because of their famous Wait Awhile, un-Australian, secessionist attitudes (funny how you can call for a national competition while also wanting out of the country). Correct me if I’m wrong, but was Optus Stadium 13 years in the making despite record revenues from the mining boom?

                Even your local parochial newspaper knows something’s wrong.


              • Roar Rookie

                July 6th 2018 @ 1:14pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 6th 2018 @ 1:14pm | ! Report

                Correct me if I’m wrong but the billion dollar undertaking took a level of engineering and design that does take time, building something always takes more time than t@rting up a fossil.
                Bringing up political thought from over 100 years ago is pointless and does not reflect the views of the majority of west Aussies as we are smart enough to realise our economy is tied intrinsically to the whole.
                You may not realise but the only non parochial papers in Australia are the Australian and the financial review though the owners do dictate editorial direction.

            • July 4th 2018 @ 5:42pm
              Joe B said | July 4th 2018 @ 5:42pm | ! Report

              RA, it is not a case of WA and SA “going cheap”, it is simply a case of economics. The cost can not be justified. How often would the ground host over 50 or 60k? The AFL lobbied both state govts for better facilities, which they have duly delivered… but did they offer exclusive GF hosting rights for 30 years? No. Did they offer 1 GF to host? No. It would make no difference if the capacity was 80k (100k – MCC members).
              It is GROSSLY unfair that the AFL favours MCG tenants, and to a lesser extent, the other vic teams, by gifting them home ground advantage for the GF. The GF does not need to be hosted at the highest capacity ground… and that is a fact! So stop your whinging about how the GF has to be hosted at the MCG, and how many fans will miss out. Non-vic fans miss out on tickets for the GF, and if you do snag a ticket in the ballet it is high up in the stand where the view is rubbish, and still costs hundreds of dollars – not to mention the horrendous cost of flights and accom. I would happily pay double for a GF ticket to Perth Stadium, far cheaper, better views, state of the art… and double price tickets mean the AFL doesn’t lose money.

              • July 5th 2018 @ 1:43am
                Reservoir Animal said | July 5th 2018 @ 1:43am | ! Report

                “How often would the ground host over 50 or 60k?”

                Again, a typical small-town, don’t-think-big attitude. No city in the world would ever get built if its planners applied that same sort of fear factor against the costs. If SA and WA really wanted their new stadia to host Grand Finals they should’ve discussed this with the AFL at the time of construction and found out what a worthy capacity was.

                Capacity matters. Otherwise we’d play Grand Finals in my local park- you know, at least then everyone who gets a ticket would be close to the play?

              • July 5th 2018 @ 12:09pm
                Joe B said | July 5th 2018 @ 12:09pm | ! Report

                The AFL doesn’t pay for the infrastructure, but benefits from it. You have a naive understanding of economics.
                Why should victorians, and Victorian clubs have exclusive rights to the AFL GF when the AFL benefits from massive state infrastructure spend from other states? Your arrogance and entitlement blind you to the fact it is supposed to be a nationwide competition… and there should be a notion of fairness, not corrupt entitlement.

              • July 5th 2018 @ 11:38pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 5th 2018 @ 11:38pm | ! Report

                “the AFL benefits from massive state infrastructure spend from other states?”

                They clearly aren’t such massive spends given that they’re intentionally making their stadium small compared to the MCG.

                If WA and SA were willing to spend on a 100K stadium (which we know they won’t do- WA and SA locals on this page have even said so) then I’d be happier with them moving the GF there. Though there’d still be the issues about those cities lacking the tourist and nightlife facilities that Melbourne has- hell, Sydney has far inferior nightlife to Melbourne and they’re supposed to be bigger and more cosmopolitan.

                The AFL Grand Final is the biggest event on the Australian sporting calendar and its popularity is a key reason why AFL is the nation’s number one football code. It’s not something to be handed around as if it were a Christmas gift.

              • Roar Guru

                July 6th 2018 @ 9:02am
                Paul Dawson said | July 6th 2018 @ 9:02am | ! Report

                Reservoir, what you never acknowledge is that the reason the MCG is so huge is because the Victorian state government passes all the redevelopment costs onto the MCC – which is able to afford to rebuild the stadium itself because it holds the grand final hostage. The decision to keep the grand final in Melbourne has nothing to do with the AFL really – what it actually does is illustrate the limits of the AFL’s power, nothing more.

                I am in the process of putting together a forensic economic and political analysis of the grand final that will blow out of the water all of the chest beating arguments you have made, most of which appear to be based on economic lala land figures. Should debut next week. Stay tuned.

              • Roar Rookie

                July 6th 2018 @ 12:55pm
                Mattician6x6 said | July 6th 2018 @ 12:55pm | ! Report

                Looking forward to it Paul, your articles are always a good meaty read.

            • July 4th 2018 @ 6:27pm
              Gyfox said | July 4th 2018 @ 6:27pm | ! Report

              The only people who would miss out if the GF was in Adelaide or Perth instead of the MCG are the 35,000 MCC members. That would make it a real footy fans’ Final. Sorry, Melbourne!

              • July 5th 2018 @ 1:39am
                Reservoir Animal said | July 5th 2018 @ 1:39am | ! Report

                But Gyfox, why are MCC members (and the actual number of seat they get is closer to 20K) any less of the footy fan type than members of the Adelaide Oval or Optus Stadium?

        • July 4th 2018 @ 12:09pm
          Jon Boy said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:09pm | ! Report

          Re-True national competition i did answer your question last week about Fairness (not whinging ) in a true national comp. not the present VFL style we now have .I am in full support of a MCG GF but the traveling in the home and away season is way out proportion. We have accepted it will probably never change despite the former CEO saying they were fully aware of it and were ” looking at it”. To back up my fairness (not whinging) issue it would be great if everyone took the effort to read the research on the effect of sport’s people on air flight’s but i doubt Richmond ,Pies and Geelong fans are interested in that ….How could you blame them.

          • July 4th 2018 @ 1:00pm
            Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:00pm | ! Report

            From memory, your answer conveyed that we couldn’t get the sort of equality you’re seeking unless we severely reduce the number of clubs in Melbourne.

            Unless you’re willing to say which clubs you’ll get rid of and how you’ll get rid of them without seeing numerous court cases that would give the code a full-time negative image for a generation or two, your talk is as cheap as can be.

            • July 4th 2018 @ 1:23pm
              Jon Boy said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:23pm | ! Report

              It is very EASY to have just a LITTLE bit more intestate travel for Victorian teams to travel more but you are like the VFL you do not really want to think about it. (can understand that) It can be done without getting rid of clubs although North should go to Tassie ,Bulldogs to Darwin, Adelaide or somewhere they will still travel to Melbourne occasionally so there supporters can still see them. It is not rocket science but the priority is always money.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 1:41pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 1:41pm | ! Report

                The benefits Victorian teams get from their relative lack of travel are more than compensated for by the lack of a genuine home ground advantage for any of them (besides maybe Geelong). There is no such thing as Fortress Subiaco or Fortress Optus in Melbourne, and there is no such thing as hosting 10 games a year against jetlagged opponents who know the crowd will never let umpires give them their fair share.

                Accept that I’m correct if you want to continue this discussion with sufficient credibility.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 2:08pm
                Jon Boy said | July 4th 2018 @ 2:08pm | ! Report

                Correct , your joking, What is this Fortress crap your on about Freo just got beaten by the bottom team at the so called Fortress you should think before you speak.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 2:12pm
                Reservoir Animal said | July 4th 2018 @ 2:12pm | ! Report

                Jon Boy, just because Freo were too incompetent to beat the bottom team at home doesn’t mean the AFL have to change the structure of the fixture.

                I can only assume you have never been to a game in Perth. Except maybe a derby where the fortress factor isn’t so evident.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 6:04pm
                Joe B said | July 4th 2018 @ 6:04pm | ! Report

                Whining about the “fortress factor”, and you claim the MCG is a neutral venue to visiting teams. There is no way Richmond would have beaten Adelaide in Adelaide for the GF. Richmond are asterisk premiers, they can only win at home.

              • July 4th 2018 @ 7:45pm
                Jon Boy said | July 4th 2018 @ 7:45pm | ! Report

                Good call Joe B, the Cat is always whinging about Geelong having to many ‘away’ games in Melbourne .Get a life please !

            • Roar Guru

              July 4th 2018 @ 7:07pm
              hairy fat man said | July 4th 2018 @ 7:07pm | ! Report

              Richmond are very good right now, but I don’t think they have anywhere near the calibre of personnel that the Cats & Hawks teams of recent years had. They could, though, become a destination club, and that might create an empire.

    • July 4th 2018 @ 9:14am
      Tom M said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:14am | ! Report

      Spare us the sooky North supporter rant please. If you want more articles about your team more people need to actually turn up to watch them. Richmond deserve the plaudits they are getting, lets hope it goes to their head. This time last year everyone was saying the Crows were unbeatable etc. look how that turned out.

    • Roar Rookie

      July 4th 2018 @ 9:15am
      Mattician6x6 said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:15am | ! Report

      OK deliver the cup to punt road now!!!!! A team so dominant they have pulled 1 win away from the pack has it all tied up for the foreseeable future.
      Richmond are good no doubt but geez there is a few teams capable.

      • July 4th 2018 @ 9:19am
        Tom M said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:19am | ! Report

        Agreed. Its getting ridiculous. Hawthorn won 3 flags in a row and they never got this level of hype.

        • July 4th 2018 @ 9:40am
          MQ said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:40am | ! Report

          Yeh, but Hawthorn has a boring club song.

        • July 4th 2018 @ 9:42am
          Liam said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:42am | ! Report

          Tall poppy syndrome.

          I will say, if all the sides that were sitting pretty by July went on to be the eventual premiers, the overall premierships won would look a lot different. Lots of water to go under the bridge yet, and while the Tigs are playing some decent footy, plenty have played more ruthlessly and failed to go all the way.

        • July 4th 2018 @ 9:58am
          Slane said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:58am | ! Report

          So the hundreds of articles debating whether the Hawks threepeat team deserve to be considered the greatest team of all time pale into insignificance compared to this one article that dares to suggest that Richmond might not be a basket case anymore?? Get a grip.

      • Roar Guru

        July 4th 2018 @ 9:37am
        Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:37am | ! Report

        Just wait Matti if they do go back to back the arrogance will hit record levels and the 37 years of failure will be conveniently forgotten.

        • July 4th 2018 @ 12:22pm
          truetigerfan said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:22pm | ! Report

          Where have we heard that before?

          • Roar Guru

            July 4th 2018 @ 2:58pm
            Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 2:58pm | ! Report

            oh yes truetiger bloke, hang on Im in the middle of some push ups

          • Roar Guru

            July 4th 2018 @ 6:13pm
            Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 6:13pm | ! Report

            I reiterate TrueTiger it is only some fans who are already crowing. There are plenty of humble Tiger fans I know and as I’ve said before unfortunately Dimma, Cotch, Dusty and Co are too damn likeable to be anti-Richmond.

    • Columnist

      July 4th 2018 @ 9:41am
      Cameron Rose said | July 4th 2018 @ 9:41am | ! Report

      A Richmond article that is 50% about North, well done Josh…

      Everything does appear to be perfectly set up for the Tiges – a game and 15-20% clear of 2nd-5th, unbeaten at the MCG in over a year, likely to face at least two non-Vic sides there in the finals, a game plan that is hard to unpick, and a team unity that is high on belief and confidence. Hunger and complacency don’t appear to be a factor, and won’t be as long as they maintain a mindset of being the hunter.

      But the fact remains that only two teams in the last 10 years have finished on top of the ladder and won the flag. The last two seasons have seen spectacular examples of teams peaking in September going all the way, rather than being the best side from April – August.

      It’s been a good thing that we’ve lost games at regular intervals this season, to remind us that we are not that far ahead of the pack, and there are a series of worthy challengers underneath.

      • Roar Guru

        July 4th 2018 @ 12:15pm
        Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 12:15pm | ! Report

        Nice try Cameron to keep the lid on it but I believe underneath you are already planning your back to back celebrations. Put it this way, have you already booked your leave for the Monday after the GF? The week after the GF? I would if I was following the Tigers right now.

        • Columnist

          July 4th 2018 @ 2:59pm
          Cameron Rose said | July 4th 2018 @ 2:59pm | ! Report

          To be honest Pete, I got my back-to-back tattoo done about a month ago.

          • July 4th 2018 @ 4:42pm
            Kelly Andrews said | July 4th 2018 @ 4:42pm | ! Report

            I’m working on my design for the 4-roar!! Don’t want to get ahead of myself looking any further ahead than that.

            • Roar Guru

              July 5th 2018 @ 8:07am
              Peter the Scribe said | July 5th 2018 @ 8:07am | ! Report

              There’s no doubt Kelly the Tigers are in full flight. Back to back and a membership exceeding 110,000 is possible. The juggernaut will really be launched. You would need luck and some Clarko style reinvention along the way to become the new Hawks but it sure seems a happy place at Tigerland and your core group will be around a while yet.

          • Roar Guru

            July 4th 2018 @ 6:13pm
            Peter the Scribe said | July 4th 2018 @ 6:13pm | ! Report

            Ha Ha, brilliant. 🙂

      • Roar Rookie

        July 4th 2018 @ 10:28pm
        andyfnq said | July 4th 2018 @ 10:28pm | ! Report

        Great call Cameron. It aint over till it’s over; this time last year it was Adelaide that were anointed as unbeatable and look how that went for them. Teams can get tired real quick in September; some years, like 2017, it can happen during an afternoon.