Twiggy gets ready to crunch the numbers on Force future

Will Knight Columnist

By Will Knight, Will Knight is a Roar Expert

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    While Rugby Australia come to grips with the reality of another modest Bledisloe Cup crowd, Twiggy Forrest has his own fresh set of numbers to ponder as a decision on the Western Force’s future looms.

    The bad news first? The Force take on Hong Kong in Perth tonight in the sixth game – and second-last – of the inaugural World Series Rugby competition and crowds are on the wane.

    Since 19,466 turned up at nib Stadium for their opening match against Fiji in early May, crowds have steadily dropped off – apart from a slight rise for the clash with the Crusaders during the June Test window.

    A count of 11,678 was recorded for their most recent game against Apia Samoa, meaning there’s a fair chance that a Hong Kong side lacking genuine street cred will result in a crowd figure under 10,000.

    That would correlate to a halving of the Force’s crowd figures over just six matches.

    It’s a sobering decline given the jubilation in the stands at the first game – which was both a celebration of the survival of professional rugby in Western Australia and a big middle finger to Rugby Australia, who booted the Force out of the Super Rugby competition.

    Andrew Twiggy Forrest Rugby Union Western Force IPRC

    (Photo by Daniel Carson/Getty Images)

    But it’s hardly dire when weighed up against recent crowds of 6,821 in Canberra to watch the Brumbies beat the Hurricanes and 10,340 for the Queensland Reds’ defeat of the Melbourne Rebels in Brisbane. Just over 12,000 rolled in for the Waratahs’ week-one finals win over the Highlanders in Sydney.

    New Zealand and South Africa have also contended with ordinary crowd numbers this season, but at least Super Rugby can fall back on decent TV ratings to prove it retains a significant level of popularity despite the structural dilemmas of the last few years.

    And the good news? Apparently there are 47 million ready-made rugby fans in just two Asian countries that he can pitch any new version of World Series Rugby to.

    In survey figures released by World Rugby this week, China have 33 million rugby fans alone. That’s the equal-highest, along with the United States, of any nation. India have 25 million fans while next year’s World Cup hosts Japan are in the top 10 with 14 million.

    They are the kind of figures that a businessman as successful and thorough as Forrest would salivate over given he’s clearly targeting the Asian market.

    The numbers seem mind-blowing and a sceptic would naturally question how deep a rugby connection is required to be considered a “fan” in a survey. But if anyone can capitalise on even superficial interest and translate it into sponsors, TV deals and other commercial opportunities, it’s Twiggy.

    World Rugby’s own commissioned research and its stark findings also mean that the governing body will likely support Forrest’s rugby investment in the region – if not financially, then by at least pressuring the better-resourced Rugby Australia to work with the WA billionaire.

    Andrew Twiggy Forrest

    (AAP Image/Richard Wainwright)

    RA chief executive Raelene Castle can do with all the friends she can muster. The projected crowd for next Saturday’s clash against the All Blacks in Sydney is about 55,000 to 60,000.

    Last year’s 54,846 – at the same venue at ANZ Stadium in Homebush – was the smallest Bledisloe crowd of the professional era.

    Now they are sobering figures given the slump since the boom days of the early 2000s.

    This is meant to be RA’s time to stash some dough away to pay the bills. Michael Hooper has recently signed on, but Bernard Foley and Israel Folau remain unsigned for next season.

    Why the delay in sealing some signatures? Perhaps there isn’t enough money to go around for the Big Three.

    Is Forrest courting Folau to be his marquee man in WSR? It’s not inconceivable that Izzy still harbours some resentment towards RA over the handling of the “homophobic” tweet saga. No one ever imagined he would go to AFL, right?

    Will Knight
    Will Knight

    An AAP writer for more than a decade, Will Knight does his best to make sense of all things cricket, rugby union and rugby league, all while trying to have a laugh along the way. You can find him on Twitter @WKnightrider.

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    The Crowd Says (169)

    • August 10th 2018 @ 6:26am
      Bakkies said | August 10th 2018 @ 6:26am | ! Report

      Will you forgot to mention that the last three Force matches have been played in torrential rain.

      • Roar Pro

        August 10th 2018 @ 9:17am
        Melburnian said | August 10th 2018 @ 9:17am | ! Report

        Very true, but that excuse was roundly rejected by some on this forum when the Rebels only managed to draw 5,500 for the Chiefs in a game affected by a severe weather event.

        Speaking to AFL supporters on the train home after some of the Rebels games, they noted the same issue with declining crowds, break even numbers not being met etc. I took my youngest son regularly to the early season Rebels games but at $75 each to sit in the top of the stand (he has special needs) plus a further $50 for food and travel, $200 to watch SR after a day out watching community Rugby isn’t that attractive when I can watch it at home in the warm. Maybe people just have bills to pay and that takes a higher priority.

        • August 10th 2018 @ 3:25pm
          woodart said | August 10th 2018 @ 3:25pm | ! Report

          declining crowds for live anything is a whole nother subject.

        • August 10th 2018 @ 7:10pm
          innocent bystander said | August 10th 2018 @ 7:10pm | ! Report

          Maybe try going to a WSR game then. Better entertainment, better price and many will argue better flowing rugby.

      • August 10th 2018 @ 9:23am
        Rugger said | August 10th 2018 @ 9:23am | ! Report

        I share your sentiment Cookie.

        Crowds over there will continue to fall and the Force will eventually fizzle out.

        The best we can hope for is a new competition format worth emulating (at a higher level) and eventually a rejuvenated WA side built ‘properly’ with WA’s own sweat and tears (and funding) thus ensuring it has a soul.

        Rome wasn’t built in a day but the Force should have been built within 12 years.

        • Roar Guru

          August 10th 2018 @ 3:08pm
          Bakkies said | August 10th 2018 @ 3:08pm | ! Report

          The Force will fizzle out way after your Rugger.

        • August 11th 2018 @ 1:42pm
          andrewM said | August 11th 2018 @ 1:42pm | ! Report

          Crowd of 10,800 last night, against a team that I think quite frankly not many knew too much about. Cold, but dry conditions. I think next week if the conditions are decent a crowd of 15,000 against the Knights would not be unreasonable to hope for.

        • August 11th 2018 @ 11:02pm
          Force girl said | August 11th 2018 @ 11:02pm | ! Report

          In your drea ms. The WA community has more soul than any other State. The Western Force Club has a new dynamic style of play that keeps supporters of both teams watching the whole game and a healthy competition. We have massive player programmes for players from very young ages involved. We are building Rugby in the South Pacific without paying 6 million dollars to one player. Expect an exodus overseas from your best players after locking one person into a position who is average . We had nearly 11,000 last night at our game against Hong Kong. Full house expected against Japan next week. W.A hasn’t sour grapes against you eastern clubs. We just despise ERA and we are happy playing our better style of game.
          I just wish you would stop publishing stories that aren’t correct. Will tolerate if facts are true.
          Play the Game

      • Roar Guru

        August 10th 2018 @ 11:42am
        Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 11:42am | ! Report

        The immediate increase in attendance for meaningless (ie not part of a competition fixtures) shows that’s a huge factor.

        The standard is close to NRC quality, but crowds are up. Doesn’t mean they aren’t there, but they are also now dropping off match by match.

        Still even they can even out at 10kish average over time that’s basically in-line with Union and League crowds throughout the world.

        • Roar Pro

          August 10th 2018 @ 1:07pm
          Melburnian said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:07pm | ! Report

          TWAS, Still even they can even out at 10kish average over time that’s basically in-line with Union and League crowds throughout the world. I’m not sure that is entirely fair as in recent years the Aviva Premiership has averaged around 10K but its important to remember that a significant number of stadiums in the Aviva Prem. (now Gallagher Prem.) have a capacity of 10K. When clubs like Wasps, Saracens or Bath play a fixture at Twickenham, they’ve got around the 60,000+ mark.

          From recollection both the Western Force and the Rebels has good attendances around 24,000+ mark after they first joined SR, but lack of ongoing success resulted in steadily declining crowds over the ensuing seasons.

          Whether WSR / Indo Pacific Rugby and SR will continue is a moot point. Personally I believe the best thing for Aussie Rugby is to get out of SR altogether and convert the NRC into the tribal competition that it should be. To do that needs an injection of cash to bring back many of the best Wallabies playing overseas and to invest in grass roots to develop more talent. But for that to happen there are a few on the RA board that need to leave simply to re-establish trust between supporters, state unions and the governing body.

          • Roar Guru

            August 10th 2018 @ 1:10pm
            Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:10pm | ! Report

            Melburnian I reckon if Wasps, Saracens, etc. could regularly draw 60k at Twickenham, they’d play ever game there.

            Force and Rebels both started with good attendances basically in line with the rest of the competition, both declined with the competition average. The Reds 2010-2013 were the only team that were able to buck the trend in a significant way.

        • August 10th 2018 @ 1:46pm
          andrewM said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:46pm | ! Report

          I’d suggest the team the Force have had run out has mostly been above NRC quality TWAS – I’d challenge any NRC team to get within 70 points of the Crusaders ‘B’ team. Obviously, the opposition has varied greatly

          • Roar Guru

            August 10th 2018 @ 1:48pm
            Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:48pm | ! Report

            I don’t know about the Crusaders, but that Rebels team is pretty close to exactly what you’d expect for Rising.

            If anything they’d be stronger as players like Talakai and Sa’aga for example would be included. Ruru also.

      • August 10th 2018 @ 12:46pm
        Bob said | August 10th 2018 @ 12:46pm | ! Report

        I also think we can not Understate the involvement of Nick Marvin, he used to be the CEO of the Perth wildcats now running the force. As you know he made the Wildcats extremely popular in Perth with almost zero public interest in the NBL.

        If anyone has been following the Forces marketing strategy this year you would have seem it is leaps and bounds above previous years.

        Next year WSR will benefit from having meaningful games ie for competition points. I doubt WSR will replace superrugby but let’s just hope it stays afloat because the more pro rugby we have in the world the better it is for rugby and more contracts to Aussie players who can not make a super team. WSR give Australian super rugby teams a good chance to have a feeder league with players on full time training schedules,That they can poach.

        • Roar Guru

          August 10th 2018 @ 1:02pm
          Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:02pm | ! Report


        • Roar Pro

          August 10th 2018 @ 1:37pm
          Melburnian said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:37pm | ! Report

          Maybe Nick Marvin might be prevailed upon to become chairman of RA one day …

          • Roar Rookie

            August 10th 2018 @ 1:58pm
            piru said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:58pm | ! Report

            the RA chairman spot has become like the American presidency hasn’t it?

            Anyone who does anything slightly competent is put up as a potential

            • Roar Guru

              August 10th 2018 @ 2:00pm
              Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 2:00pm | ! Report

              The chairman has traditionally been more of a figurehead with minimal responsibility. I think Michael Hawker when he was in the role was being paid between $0 and $20,000 a year for his services depending on the time.

              If Nick had any interest, I imagine it would be in the CEO role anyway.

            • Roar Pro

              August 10th 2018 @ 2:09pm
              Melburnian said | August 10th 2018 @ 2:09pm | ! Report

              Well if that’s the case, “pick me …” I’ll do it for half of what Clyne gets. 🙂

              • Roar Guru

                August 10th 2018 @ 2:16pm
                Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 2:16pm | ! Report

                Unless remuneration has increased a lot since Harkwer’s tenure it’s not a great role. Get your name dragged through the mud (look at cricket, AFL and NRL – All executives are criticised) and there seems at times to be a significant amount of time required.

                Maybe it’s ok if you have a flexible career and love rugby so getting to go to all the games is a good perk for you.

              • Roar Rookie

                August 10th 2018 @ 2:20pm
                piru said | August 10th 2018 @ 2:20pm | ! Report

                I’ll do it for half again!

              • Roar Pro

                August 10th 2018 @ 3:13pm
                Melburnian said | August 10th 2018 @ 3:13pm | ! Report

                Does the job come with a hat?

              • Roar Guru

                August 10th 2018 @ 2:21pm
                Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 2:21pm | ! Report

                If you guys keep undercutting Clyne you’ll be paying to do it!

              • Roar Guru

                August 10th 2018 @ 3:11pm
                Bakkies said | August 10th 2018 @ 3:11pm | ! Report

                de Clyne should be uppercut not undercut.

    • Roar Guru

      August 10th 2018 @ 8:41am
      Nick Turnbull said | August 10th 2018 @ 8:41am | ! Report

      Hi Will,

      I’m not going to get stuck into RA for then fun of it but you have to examine why such a large offer to Hooper when he is coming into a period of his career where logically thinking his body will require greater rehabilitation.

      WSR will be poised to snap up any number of players coming off contract post RWC 19’ and RA has just fired a big shot to retain one player who may not even be the best 7 or skipper in this country. He is a great player but is he worth that investment?

      I think Cheika would be mad to start Hooper in the Bledisloe as he has had no rugby for a number of weeks and despite his experience he is not battle ready to start such an important test. We have Pocock! I’d like to see 6. Tui, 7 Pocock, 8, Timu with Hooper on the bench for the last 25 or so.

      • Roar Guru

        August 10th 2018 @ 12:20pm
        jeznez said | August 10th 2018 @ 12:20pm | ! Report

        That is a tasty backrow unit Nick – particularly if Latu gets injected around the same time. Lifts the breakdown pressure while increasing the tackling and the wider attack strength. Happy for him to come in for whoever is not performing as strongly out of Tui or Timu at that stage of the game.

        • Roar Guru

          August 10th 2018 @ 12:28pm
          Nick Turnbull said | August 10th 2018 @ 12:28pm | ! Report

          Thanks Jez,

          Hardwick or Samu should cover the bench if there is any cloud over Hooper’s fitness. Great player but he himself would know you can’t take on the AB’s underdone and expect a positive outcome.

    • Roar Rookie

      August 10th 2018 @ 8:45am
      Paulo said | August 10th 2018 @ 8:45am | ! Report

      Crowd numbers across the board are tending down unfortunately, but the money making side of Rugby is for more interested in broadcasting deals I would imagine. This is where WSR needs to secure its ROI.

      Will the Force return to SR? I doubt it, as SR is on the decline and would potentially look to exploit the same Asian market Twiggy and WSR are trying to get into. If the Force come back to the top tier of rugby in this region, I don’t think it will be called Super Rugby anyone, it will be the next iteration, what ever that is.

      • August 11th 2018 @ 10:11am
        ScottD said | August 11th 2018 @ 10:11am | ! Report

        I don’t think rugby supporters in WA are particularly interested in a team returning to SR. I think they like what they have now (and are likely to get next year) just fine.

        • August 11th 2018 @ 10:29am
          concerned supporter said | August 11th 2018 @ 10:29am | ! Report

          Saw the last 20 min or so after the Easts/ Souths NRL game.

          The atmosphere, Rugby was good. What was the crowd?

          • August 11th 2018 @ 10:39am
            andrewM said | August 11th 2018 @ 10:39am | ! Report

            10,800 and something

    • August 10th 2018 @ 8:57am
      Steve said | August 10th 2018 @ 8:57am | ! Report

      To get anything over 5,000 to watch the Force play this type of opposition is absolutely stunning.

      • August 10th 2018 @ 1:10pm
        Bob said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:10pm | ! Report

        Amen to that they are essentially playing a Friendly match against a HK Premiership All Star team. I doubt their is much of a Rugby made Hong Kong diaspora as opposed to the other Rep teams that have come to play.

        But I Dare say that this HK team could be stronger than their national team. As their are plenty of blokes in HK Premiership who could make the national team but have not met the residency requirements or are just one one or two year contract with the club teams up there.

      • Roar Rookie

        August 10th 2018 @ 1:43pm
        ForceFan said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:43pm | ! Report

        The Hong Kong approach to this game is very well presented in this article:

        The Hong Kong Dragons, Panasonic Wild Knights and Australian Stockmen games over the next 3 weeks is good preparation for the Western Force for the 1st NRC game on 9 September.

        • August 11th 2018 @ 11:07am
          Bob said | August 11th 2018 @ 11:07am | ! Report

          I think HK and the WSR would of been quite happy at HKs level last night. Shows if they want to join WSR next year they will not have to blow the bank and recruit a ton of players. Definitely could do with recruiting a few backs but I think they showed up quite well.

          Biggest thing to keep the costs down for WSR is recruiting teams that have ready made squads. Is Panasonic or a Fiji team. Where as Singapore will likely have to recruit a whole new squad.

          • Roar Guru

            August 13th 2018 @ 11:21am
            Bakkies said | August 13th 2018 @ 11:21am | ! Report

            I say the Fijian team playing in WSR will likely be the Drua so they play year round as a team. Ben Ryan said while he was Fiijian 7s coach that was money being put together in Fiji to support a pro side.

    • Roar Rookie

      August 10th 2018 @ 9:08am
      ForceFan said | August 10th 2018 @ 9:08am | ! Report

      Wow. Another click bait article about the Western Force on The Roar, so I’ll make my contribution.

      I’m not going to get into the numbers as they mean little when the Waratahs just take the very low turnouts out to boost their average.
      However, just remember that Perth only has a population of 2 Million and AFL (Eagles & Dockers) are both pulling 50,000 to Optus on a regular basis.
      Rugby is recovering from the axing of the Western Force 300 global players who have contacted Matt Hodgson expressing a desire to be involved to “do something different” and help build the game of rugby.

      World Series Rugby/Western Force has already created a new match day experience in 2018.
      We’ll see more of it tonight as cold but dry night forecast for Perth for the game against the Hong Kong Dragons.

      Next week will be against Robbie Dean’s Panasonic Wild Knights – strongly rumoured to be one of the teams for next year. It will be a cracker as Robbie’s bringing his best team before their 1st Top League game on 31 August.

      The next 3 weeks is good preparation for the Western Force leading up to the NRC with Hong Kong, Panasonic and the Australian Stockmen.

      Suggest best to watch the FTA games on Channel 7 at 1300 hrs on Saturday as the time-slot at 2300 hrs on Friday has little attraction (Thanks for nothing Channel 7).

      Full replays in HD are generally available on YouTube within a week.
      Check out the game against the Crusaders – some great rugby.

      • August 10th 2018 @ 10:29am
        Max Danger said | August 10th 2018 @ 10:29am | ! Report

        “Wow. Another click bait article about the Western Force on The Roar, so I’ll make my contribution.”

        and what a contribution that was, full of misstatements, wishful thinking and comedy

        300 players? you made my day

        • Roar Rookie

          August 10th 2018 @ 10:33am
          piru said | August 10th 2018 @ 10:33am | ! Report

          Another Force article, another negative little snipe from the intrepid Max Danger

        • Roar Rookie

          August 10th 2018 @ 10:56am
          ForceFan said | August 10th 2018 @ 10:56am | ! Report

          Perhaps you should have a chat to Matt Hodgson as I have.

          So you know for a fact that Hodgson is a liar?

          I’ll let you tell him that……

          • Roar Guru

            August 10th 2018 @ 11:30am
            Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 11:30am | ! Report

            If it’s 300 players like Elliot Turner that’s hardly impressive…

            • Roar Rookie

              August 10th 2018 @ 1:04pm
              ForceFan said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:04pm | ! Report

              Very much a cracked record TWAS.

              Once the IPRC, now WSR, was delayed after collaboration with World Rugby and Asia Rugby 2018 was going to be a fill-in year to maintain a professional team in WA after the player group had been decimated by the axing of the Force.

              Suggest you keep your powder dry until next year and then you can slag it as much as you like.

              Until then it just seems like sour grapes.

              • Roar Guru

                August 10th 2018 @ 1:06pm
                Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:06pm | ! Report

                The irony in you calling people a cracked record.

                Is it sour grapes to say a player that was 4th choice for Rebels Under 20s is probably not a very good professional recruit 12 months later, or just reality?

              • Roar Guru

                August 11th 2018 @ 1:27pm
                Bakkies said | August 11th 2018 @ 1:27pm | ! Report

                The 300 players included those who wanted to move closer to home after being abroad in Europe for so long. Twiggy has already brought Deegan (Connacht), Longbottom (Saracens), Rod Davies (Biarritz), the Orr brothers back to Australia alongside Jaque Fourie and Jeremy Thrush.

            • August 10th 2018 @ 1:38pm
              concerned supporter said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:38pm | ! Report


              Maybe the famous Melbourne University can enter a team?

              You can go to Perth and be booed by Piru, Force Fan and all the others that you have annoyed over the last year or so.

              • Roar Guru

                August 10th 2018 @ 1:42pm
                Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:42pm | ! Report

                Yeah sounds like a good idea. I’ve been banging on about how I don’t think it’s going to be a financially sustainable venture, but i’ll push something I have an interest in, towards it.

              • Roar Rookie

                August 10th 2018 @ 1:44pm
                piru said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:44pm | ! Report

                Ahem, I wouldn’t boo TWAS

                I’d buy him a beer to keep him quiet for 5 minutes and try to explain the view from the west.

                I’d like to hope he’d reciprocate

              • Roar Guru

                August 10th 2018 @ 1:50pm
                Train Without A Station said | August 10th 2018 @ 1:50pm | ! Report

                I know you wouldn’t boo me Piru. You’d engage in a logical discussion and wouldn’t start shreeking that I was a shill for merely not sharing your view.

                When it came my turn to buy a beer I may disappear to the toilet and never come back…

                Kidding. Disappearing on a shout is a dog act and I like to time my smoke bomb immediately after my shout for maximum surprise.

            • Roar Rookie

              August 11th 2018 @ 12:05pm
              ForceFan said | August 11th 2018 @ 12:05pm | ! Report

              Hodgson’s 300 player list is a list of Aussie and International players from professsional rugby interested in playing WSR.

              I find your comment regarding Elliot Turner somewhat tragic and certainly disingenuous.
              Are you actually against young players being given an opportunity to show their stuff?

              Players develop at different rates. Super Rugby is full of journeymen and late bloomers.

              Through the Western Force restart players such as Andrew Deegan and Jack McGregor have the chance to play consistently at a higher level.

              Deegan was surplus to needs in NSW so got a chance to play NRC for the Perth Spirit before getting a few runs at Connacht. He’s developing a good game as was evident in the recent Wallabies trial. No SR team was prepared to give him a chance.

              McGregor came West and immediately got to play in the Mauritius 10s and got MOM in the WF v HK Dragons last night. But he couldn’t get a run at the Rebels.

              I hope that even more young hopefuls will move West and play in the local club competition and be on the radar for the Western Force or another WSR team.

              • Roar Guru

                August 12th 2018 @ 2:55pm
                Train Without A Station said | August 12th 2018 @ 2:55pm | ! Report

                How is it disingenuous?

                He was 4th choice in a state U20s team and as far as I know played 0 minutes of Super 20s despite being fit and available.

                I’ve got zero against it. It’s absolutely misleading to talk about how good the quality of the squad is when players of this Le el are full time professionals. This time last year I believe he started 1 game of prems rugby.

                Deegan never played for the Spirit also…

                Yes McGregor couldn’t get a run at the Rebels. He’s still not Super Rugby quality. He was given plenty of NRC time to develop but ultimately he’s probably not going to get to Super Rugby standard, which is why the Rebels released him, because they Didnt intend to retain him.

                Hope he goes well at the Force but I’m doubtful he will prove to be a loss.

            • Roar Pro

              August 11th 2018 @ 5:44pm
              Crazy Horse said | August 11th 2018 @ 5:44pm | ! Report

              300 players over 7 teams (The force already has a team). That would be 42 per team.

          • August 10th 2018 @ 4:46pm
            Armchair Sportsfan said | August 10th 2018 @ 4:46pm | ! Report

            I dont think anyone saying your mate Matt h Hodgeson hasn’t fielded interest from 300 players…

            I think people are probably saying that its unlikely to have been players of the standard of Malcolm Marx or Brodie Retallick who are putting in a call….

            • August 10th 2018 @ 10:24pm
              Rugger said | August 10th 2018 @ 10:24pm | ! Report

              I wonder if Hodgson was sporting that cliche ‘frown or scorned look’ he’s been practicing over the past 18 months. I also liked his tearful interview which was as believable as David Warner’s

              If Hodgo fielded 300 calls they would have been ‘prank calls’. As believable as LeBron James begging to ditch the Cavaliers or the Lakers for the Townsville Taipans

              Take a big gasp of air because this ship is going down – right after the ‘blockbuster’ clash against provincial powerhouse Hong Kong

              • Roar Guru

                August 11th 2018 @ 1:29pm
                Bakkies said | August 11th 2018 @ 1:29pm | ! Report

                It is more believable than the tripe you post Rugger.

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