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The Roar

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Joined April 2020

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Interested in stadium politics, competition programming, sporting administration, cricket history and trivia

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Yes thanks again, I always learn something new and reflect on my own preconceptions.

Commemorating the birth of Victor Trumper

Here’s a rugby league perspective-

https://www.nrl.com/news/2015/06/29/victor-trumper–the-peoples-champion/

The author’s not credited, which is a shame because it’s a nice read.

Commemorating the birth of Victor Trumper

Thanks Renato,

If playing today he would drive coaches, selectors, team analysts and Cricket Australia nuts. And possibly become a Twenty20 mercenary and surpass the feats of Gayle, Warner and de Villiers ? And an activist for players’ rights alongside Ian Chappell and the Australian Cricketers’ Association ?

On the one hand he was uninterested when conditions were easy and any teammate could score runs, gave his wicket to deserving bowlers when he’d had enough, and got out playing high-risk shots rather than settling for an average-bolstering not-out.

But on the other he fought hard for players’ rights to a fair income and was a key figure in the player strike of 1912, had strong views about team selections including of captains, and was instrumental in the birth of professional rugby league in Australia and the NSW Rugby League’s first treasurer. So he was no softie.

Commemorating the birth of Victor Trumper

Hi matth, nervous nineties ? I see this is article number 99.

Just nudge one behind square, ask the umpire for middle, call for a new pair of gloves, and set yourself for 200.

All day matth, all day.

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: The best of the best

Hi Ruairidh,

If this article is to have any credibility at all, then surely Andrew Zesers must be the captain of every team listed- even the Test ones ! 😊

https://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/8466.html

The all-time alphabetical XIs

Hi Arnab, is this an “all-time” XI, or a “21st-century” XI ? They are different things. And using such criteria has occupational hazards. The players refuse to be pigeonholed by career dates ! For example, based solely on performances this century ie since 1 Jan 2001-

Of Indian batsmen, Tendulkar has fewer runs than Dravid, and at a lower average.

Of New Zealand bowlers, Wagner has fewer wickets than Southee, Boult, Vettori or Martin.

Of Australian bowlers, Warne has fewer wickets than Lyon.

Of West Indian bowlers, Holder has fewer wickets than Roach.

Also for the Aus and Ind selections, Ponting (third most runs) could replace Tendulkar (only eighth most runs), and Harbhajan (sixth most wickets) or Ashwin (eighth) could then replace Warne (only tenth most wickets).

My all-time Test XI of the 21st century

Hi Bernie,

Good luck with this. In my view DL is generally fine in theory, and “war-gaming” every possible scenario confirms that. But it has flaws in practice as a result of overlaid ICC playing conditions eg-

* after a first innings of 20 overs and then rain, forcing a very artificial result in another 5 overs, instead of just accepting a washout and draw (for example setting a target of 49 in 5 overs with 10 wickets in hand)

* after a first innings of 50 overs and then rain, forcing a very artificial result in another 15 overs, instead of just accepting a washout and draw

* after a between-innings interruption, forcing too many fieldsmen to stay in the circle for far too many of the second innings’ 5-15 overs

* allowing the team batting second to always retain 10 wickets, even when it chases a reduced target in say 5 overs and therefore can afford to throw the bat at every single ball- that’s not an even contest between bat and ball

* not sufficiently acknowledging the differing scoring trends of the 20-over format (which didn’t exist when DL was developed) and the 50-over format during the opening, middle and final overs, and with wickets in hand, and when batting with the field up or back

* perhaps even not sufficiently acknowledging the historic proven differences in scores between male and female matches, and between matches played at high- and low-scoring grounds.

When T20 cricket began, a team that defended 160 almost always won, and a side that was 3-for after 6 overs almost always lost. But tactics seem to change so quickly, that mathematicians can’t possibly keep up.

Reinventing the DLS method: Part 1

Hi Renato, exactly same trend at State level !

He scored his fewest Sheffield Shield runs when his team already had a first-innings lead, and his most runs when the team was replying to a first-innings target or making up a first-innings deficit-

First innings of a match (ie start)- 1099 runs at 42.27
Second innings of a match (ie reply)- 1208 runs at 67.11 (most)
Third innings of a match (when already in the lead)- 378 runs at 34.36 (fewest)
Third innings of a match (when behind)- 379 runs at 54.14 (second-most)
Third innings of a match (when following on)- no instances
Fourth innings of a match (ie chasing target)- 563 runs at 43.31

You may be onto something here…

Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?

Hi Renato, I did this exercise a few months ago, prompted by your book.

While not conclusive proof, it’s interesting that he scored his fewest Test runs when his team already had a first-innings lead, and his most runs when the team was replying to a first-innings target or making up a first-innings deficit-

First innings of a match (ie start)- 919 runs at 34.03
Second innings of a match (ie reply)- 748 runs at 46.75 (second-most)
Third innings of a match (when already in the lead)- 305 runs at only 25.42 (fewest)
Third innings of a match (when behind)- 688 runs at 62.55 (most)
Third innings of a match (when following on)- 185 runs at 30.83
Fourth innings of a match (ie chasing target)- 318 runs at 35.33

I hadn’t differentiated between sizes of first-innings deficit, and between opening and not opening the batting. And I hadn’t repeated the exercise for any other batsman.

Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?

It’s attributed to Darling, when captain in 1902 and Trumper was unstoppable despite one wet pitch after another including at Old Trafford where he got his century before lunch and Australia won by 3 runs.

Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?

Lots of country-origin debutants, since Love in 2002-03. Assuming you count coastal towns as bush.

For example Jaques, Haddin, Hughes, Copeland, Lyon, Hazlewood, Mennie and Maddinson from regional NSW. And your own Mitchell Johnson.

Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?

Joe Darling, and horses and carriages in those days

Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?

Hi Renato,

I know I’m being greedy, but any chance of an article to commemorate the upcoming anniversary of his birth, with few if any statistics and comparisons ?

The casual reader would generally be far less aware of the qualitative and aesthetic aspects of his batting, and (as Paul mentions below) his place in Australian history. Your perspective is unique, and you already have so much information at your fingertips. Unfortunately, raw statistics for Trumper v Hill v Bradman v Hayden can’t possibly do him justice.

Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?

Hi Renato and matth,

Discretion being the better part of valour, I’m going to try really hard to just sit back and watch how the dialogue in this thread plays out ! Except to say this-

How good is this sport that one can imagine two legendary players with such contrasting attitudes batting together for hour after hour, putting England to the sword ? And doing it at their home ground the SCG, while ironically the hapless bowlers run in from the ends named after them ie the Bradman Stand (north) and Trumper Stand (south) ?

Finally, last month Duncan Hamilton’s award-winning “The Great Romantic- Cricket and the Golden Age of Neville Cardus” came out in paperback, and I recommend it to anyone with an interest in the subject. $24.99 at Dymocks.

Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?

Hi Bernie, I was being ironic…

That Aus v WI match was only 30 overs per side. It started very late after lots of rain both on the day and in the lead-up. As a result, the pitch was both under-prepared and had sweated under the covers. But with a large crowd and TV audience, the match had to go on !

Has cricket got ahead of itself?

Hi Umesh, you make some good points ! Broadcasters and sponsors rule, and they change regularly. Oh for the days when –

* 1/50 from the first 15 overs was a match-winning platform
* Mick Malone or Terry Alderman would open the bowling with an unbroken 10-over spell of 1-24
* a run-a-ball from the last 15-20 overs was defendable
* Mark Taylor was man-of-the-match at the SCG in 1992/93, for taking four slips catches and captaining superbly when Aus successfully defended 101 against the WI on a green pitch
* Sunil Gavaskar batted 174 deliveries and the entire 60 overs for 36 not out, against England at the 1975 World Cup

Has cricket got ahead of itself?

OK then, here’s three instances of an overseas team relying heavily on the same key batsman-

In 5 wins, George Headley (WI) scored 4 centuries and averaged 95.75. That comprised 114 and 112 v England in 1930, 105 and 30 v Australia in 1931, 25 and 93 v England in 1935, 270 not out v England in 1935, then 19 years later (aged 44) only 16 and 1 v England in 1954.

In 4 wins, Brendan Taylor (Zim) scored 3 centuries and averaged 92.83. Against Bangladesh he scored 71 and 105 not out in the same match, and later 171 and 102 not out in the same match.

In 9 wins, Graeme Pollock (SA) scored 4 centuries plus a 90 and an 87, and averaged 84.14. That included 175 in Adelaide in 1964, and 274 against Australia in Durban in 1970. He also scored 136 in Adelaide in 1972, when the World XI defeated Australia.

Jackie McGlew, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Garry Sobers, Younis Khan, Kumar Sangakkara, Kane Williamson and Walter Hammond had similar records in wins, but more often and in generally more-successful teams.

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Harvey, Chappell, Hussey and Walters

Hi matth,

Are you going to do the same exercise for overseas batsmen ? I don’t want to steal your thunder, or be sued for breach of copyright.

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Harvey, Chappell, Hussey and Walters

Hi matth,

Surely you could have waited and milked your last article for another 100 comments ? 😁 😁 😁

Greg Chappell’s career is even more impressive when you add on his World Series Cricket performances in both Australia and the West Indies. In 2000, the then-Australian Cricket Board named him in its Team of the Century. And in 2009, Cricinfo named him in its all-time Australian team.

In 1998, Bradman named Neil Harvey in his best Australian team of all players that he’d seen since the 1920s. And in 2000, Harvey made the ACB’s Team of the Century.

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Harvey, Chappell, Hussey and Walters

This Trumpeter guy is good clickbait

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Trumper, Waugh, Warner and Smith

Not only were there so many important obituaries in it, but fewer copies were printed because the war meant that little cricket was played (it was 299 pages long, rather than the usual 791), and then huge numbers of grieving families snapped up the available copies because they contained the short obituaries of their cricketing loved ones who had died on the front line.

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Trumper, Waugh, Warner and Smith

Monty Noble.

And of overseas players, Herbert Sutcliffe (54.45), Len Hutton (50.00), Eddie Paynter (49.00) and Jack Hobbs (46.07) had high averages in losses, albeit higher ones still in wins and draws. But they were clearly very consistent across all types of match outcomes.

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Trumper, Waugh, Warner and Smith

I note this is your 96th article.

Get ’em in singles !

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Trumper, Waugh, Warner and Smith

🏏 🏏 🏏 👍 👍 👍

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Trumper, Waugh, Warner and Smith

Hi matth,

Interesting that nowadays there’s so much interest in a bloke who died in 1915 ! Perhaps it would be worth doing articles on WG Grace and Andrew Stoddart as well, and maybe Rugby School cricketer Rupert Brooke of whom Wisden noted in his obituary “He had gained considerable reputation as a poet.” 😁

I’d love to find that 1916 Wisden in a garage sale or second-hand bookshop. It’s supposed to be the rarest and most valuable edition of all.

Analysing Australia’s Test cricket winners: Trumper, Waugh, Warner and Smith