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AlsBoyce

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Joined August 2014

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Ex junior coach ex no 10. 63yo retired IT Mngr. Win with tough style in the Michael Cheika fashion is Australian Rugby at its best.

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Well he may have got away with passing it forward to hit Hodge properly, but probably not. Best would have been not to pass at all, but his decision time was short.

Now the dust has settled, what really went wrong?

You’re right that he should have kicked that goal. Lealiifano’s kicking has improved a lot this year, probably back to where he was prior to his medical problems put him out of the game for a period. The luck I was referring to was in relation to how close he got but failed. His next kick looked a lot worse. He struggled with confidence with those kicks, and it affected his game I think. Had the first one been marginally further to the right and went over, his game would have most likely been way better. I criticised his aimless kick that lead to the second try. He looked like he did not have the confidence to run it back and so retain possession. He may have made a different decision had that first kick gone over. Is that fragility good enough? No, but in Perth he played well.

Now the dust has settled, what really went wrong?

No, not just a massive whinge against the referee. But take a look at the aerial shots of Joe Moody scrummaging before you give Jaco Peyper a big tick. I saw the first penalty differently to you, but if I’m wrong I’ll accept that. It created a period of good attack from NZ, but also good defence from Wallabies with the end result that Wallabies down by 1 penalty goal. Not a bad result for them in the circumstances. the following 2 tries were the killer blows. They were created by Hodge overrunning and Lealiifano’s aimless kick.

Now the dust has settled, what really went wrong?

Without doubt. Pace, silky swerve, size, anticipation, absolute determination …

Bledisloe 2 - now we're interested

You’re right, SMI, that the stupid penalties are generally given away by the team under pressure, and that’s been the Wallabies in most matches in recent times. Referees play a big part on the 50-50s and the “big calls”, and there are a few people here saying that Jaco Peyper is a worry for the Wallabies on past form. I think I agree with them.
I have a suspicion that the Wallaby scrum may cause NZ trouble, and that is a bellwether area of refereeing regarding referee attitude towards teams. Often the so-called loser at the scrum cops it elsewhere as well. But we will find out on Saturday.
NZ by 5 could well be the result. But it could go the other way too. I don’t think this 2015 all over again. There was something about the Wallaby team harmony and execution that hasn’t been seen for a long time.

Bledisloe 2 - now we're interested

I hope it’s not like 1991 when the Wallabies won in Sydney and then NZ won 6-3 at Auckland in driving rain. KB has improved a lot and looks pretty good now under the high ball, and his defence was good last Saturday. DHP would be better under the high ball. Tom Banks too I think, but both can be dodgy in defence as well. I often wonder why fullbacks don’t defend like Matt Burke used too – move forward late and sharply to take away the oncoming attacker’s evasive timing.

Bledisloe 2 - now we're interested

I like it! Go Wallabies as well!

Bledisloe 2 - now we're interested

Ben Smith at 15 means Barrett at 10 and Mo’unga on the bench I suppose. Still need a replacement for Goodhue and a wing to fill in for the Ben Smith move to 15.
And yes, the AB tight 5 are the main problem for NZ.

Bledisloe 2 - now we're interested

The defending team could still jump for the ball if lifting was disallowed. The kick still has to be good enough to favour the attacking jumper, who is almost always a single attacker, while the defenders have a number of potential catchers.

Penalising Folau is really rewarding a tactic to stymie the potential aerial superiority of the attacking player. The Irish used it cynically, and used POM without any consideration for his welfare.

Folau suspension: Let's applaud, not sanction, skilful feats

Folau is just an example of a player who has aerial superiority. There are others, like Ben Smith for example.

The point overlooked is that the lifting for restarts can never be properly safe because the attacking player is coming at speed. Totally different to lineouts. In POM’s case, trying to catch the ball after the trajectory had beaten him by bending over backwards so the lifter could no longer support him was really his own fault.

Having Folau penalised was probably the Irish aim, rather than trying to win the ball, which never really looked likely for them in the three restart cases in the frame.

Folau suspension: Let's applaud, not sanction, skilful feats

The Folau problem has occurred primarily because of the legality of lifting at restarts to counteract Folau’s aerial superiority.
Lifting was legalised for lineouts where it is quite safe to do so because there are attacking and defending lineouts each stationary until the lineout commences, and both are lifting their catcher. The lineout is a relatively confined space and the sort of bent over backwards falls by Peter Mahoney can’t occur in a lineout.
In effect, Peter Mahoney has brought about his own problem due to his desperation to attempt to take the kick restarts, even though he found himself in the wrong position to safely catch the ball (forward of the ideal catching point forcing him to bend over backwards in his lift to an unsupportable position). If there was no Folau jumping, it would even then be most unlikely that Stander, his lifter, could have held him.

Lifting for kick restarts, on this evidence alone, needs to be banned because it is inherently dangerous.

In the case of Ireland using this tactic, while it is within the laws of the game, it was a very cynical approach that was putting Mahoney’s safety at risk. Even with the dangerous lifting tactic, Mahoney never really looked likely to defeat Folau.
Unhappily, I believe that the Irish knew that prior to using those tactics as well, and their aim was to put Folau back in his box via extracting penalties, or yellow or red cards. Mahoney was simply cannon fodder.

Essentially, the Irish have used the dangerous lifting tactic in a manner that is against the spirit of the game, which in this case has penalised the superior athlete and rewarded the inferior ones.

Folau suspension: Let's applaud, not sanction, skilful feats

I also think transport to the SFS in Sydney, ticket pricing and generally underwhelming ground catering options are a bit of a turn off for watching the Waratahs.
There was a better crowd at Brookvale Oval last round than those previously held at the SFS this year. I think Newcastle would be absolutely perfect to stage Waratahs home matches on occasions .. maybe twice a year, and Wollongong as well. It appears that there is very little real thinking going on in terms of attracting a matchday crowd. There are payment incentives I believe from the SCG Trust (who manage the SFS as well as the SCG) for playing at the SFS, but if the filthy lucre comes at the expense of the long-term health of the game, then the administrators are derelict in their duties to the game and the bigger picture.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

Excellent idea! I have always thought that would do some good. At least it is logical and least confusing for supporters and potential supporters particularly.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

Your blood pressure seems to be rising, Julius.
Maybe you’ve misread the irony in the comments that you’re griping about.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

Who asked NZ to help?
We just want a competition that’s interesting, and the SR original 1996 format was really good.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

That ties in with my suggestion that the original SR format and rules (re bonus points) was the best. It worked well, but the formats involving conferences just haven’t.
But the SR comp could still work with the Rebels IF there was all home and away and NO local derbies.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

I said that the local derbies format favoured the stronger NZ conference because their teams play the best teams (themselves mostly) more often.

I also said that the NZ teams have an advantage because they are the same teams that started the Super Rugby competition in 1996. No adding or removing teams in NZ. This means that their conference and support hasn’t been disjointed by the changed SR formats.
Aus Rugby was in total meltdown last year over the Force dumping, and the SA loss of two teams to the Northern Hemisphere caused them grief too.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

The comment was tongue-in-cheek Iain.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

Absolutely on the money there. Well done!

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

Just because there is an interpretation that local derbies were somehow going to help the weaker teams doesn’t make that prognosis correct. It isn’t. Local derbies are boring as well. Playing the same team about 3 weeks later seems ridiculous.
But if NZ want to dump Australia and team up with SA and Argentina for another new competition. Whoopee! , good luck to them.
I have to say that would be pretty good Julius.
Maybe in Australia we could just have NRC up in a longer format on free-to-air TV as well as club rugby. Or maybe just club rugby and tests.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

I think a lack of confidence plays a big part in reducing skill execution quality. But it is also likely that poor execution is a learned response, so continual poor play leads to further poor play. Team leaders have to stand up and lead the team on-field strategy and execution.
Obviously Phipps was an idiot, but I can forgive him one offence on his buck’s night. He’s smart enough to not do it again.
For the Waratahs, Beale, Hooper and Folau stand out as at least doing their part. Foley seems to be missing in action too often, but with Phipps back at the 60 minute mark last week against the Blues, the team did look more assured. I’m a fan of Jake Gordon, but Phipps needs to start against the Crusaders.
Foley is the one who has to take control for both the Wallabies and Waratahs.

Pocock is smart, and makes a huge difference to the Brumbies, but they need more than him unfortunately. Their 9 and 10 just aren’t good enough.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

Maybe it is an admission. But an admission is not a cop out.
We certainly don’t want to hand any advantages to NZ.
The instigation of the Warriors in the NRL has also played a part in bringing the current NRL attack and defense tricks to a NZ TV audience, giving NZ the opportunity to get a source of information that was previously much less accessable. That’s not going to change, but the local derbies are both boring and assist NZ more than Australia or South Africa.
Australia used to win by guts, skills and cleverness. We can still do the guts, but we’re struggling on the skills and particularly the cleverness. This isn’t the fault of anyone but Australian Rugby itself, and are pressing issues that must be addressed before the Wallabies and Super Rugby teams show any consistent success. But providing formats for NZ to gain further advantage is not helping.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

I agree 100% with that. Rebels certainly should have been dropped instead.

Can Super Rugby get tribal too?

The Wallabies started poorly in mid-year off the back of a terrible Super Rugby season for all Australian teams, and a reported underlying lack of fitness. They got fit enough to play their 1st Rugby Championship match against NZ only to be blown away in the 1st half. NZ notably had had a warm-up match locally beforehand, so they were pumped and ready to go.
The 2nd half of Bled 1, Bled 2 (fell off at the end but kept fighting back to regain the lead in the 2nd half .. ok should have really won it, but still pretty good), and Bled 3 showed the Wallabies scoring more points than NZ. The one moment which for me showed the murmurings of a phsychological turnaround in the players belief was their try by Folau just before half-time. The Wallabies did to NZ what NZ so often do to their opponents – deliver a crushing blow when thoughts had drifted to oranges. And, it wasn’t just the scoring of the try, but the manner of the scoring that was most impressive. Fast ball, a Hooper major gain-line dent, fast ball and Beale creating defensive havoc to deliver to Folau in space 2-on-1 and on the angle to the corner. Naholo bamboozled.
The Wallabies dropped back in Perth after Bled 2 against the Boks, but put in a stirring performance to draw in South Africa in the return match. Up-and-down form but the ups are starting to look promising.
Ireland are a terrific team and maybe deserve a 3 ranking, but I like the Wallaby momentum at the moment when they have their major players playing. Depth is critical because players get injured, and the Wallabies can get exposed in that area as we have seen.
After Bled 3 it was flat to downhill for the Wallabies, with an ok performance against Wales, but not so good against England and terrible against Scotland. Up until the 71st minute they endured magnificently against England, but they still did not play that well.

Wallabies' 2017 report card

You’ve misunderstood my point, Waxhead.
The lack of courage comment works both ways. Sticking with players too long and not selecting potential replacements are two sides of the same coin.
I was nevertheless really directing the comment toward the backs in this instance, and particularly about a fascination MK has with the “big” 12 crash-ball option, but also with his propensity to move players from positions where they had been performing well (e.g. Beale at 12) to shore up other positions where they could possibly play (e.g. Beale replacing Folau at 15). I think doing that is doubly disruptive, and Hunt should have played 15, leaving Beale at 12.
With Folau missing, Beale became the major focus of the defence attacking from 15, but with him still at 12, who knows what is going to happen? Will he run, will he grubber to Korabeti, will he offload to Hunt/Hodge/Korabeti/Kuradrani or to Foley on the wraparound. Both Beale and Foley feature more deceptively in that combination, giving opportunities to the ball-runners, and creating more for the defence to attempt to cover.

Wallabies' 2017 report card