Are Tigers fans precious about Marvel Stadium?

Yes. You bet. Absolutely.

I actually like the ground with 40k+ fans in. Better facilities than the ‘G’, good train access, decent walk, tram and bus access if staying in a city hotel. Better food, drink, amenities, viewing. Closer to the action etc.

Early years at Docklands watching matches on TV or even being at the ground for sunny day, roof open games was horrible. Purely and only due to the bright/dark problem. What is amazing is that despite the public identifying this problem on day 1 it took the AFL 20 years to enact the obvious solution.
That whole era of annoying frustration has coloured the views of many fans. But Tigers supporters were always looking for a reason to hate anywhere but true home. I never thought that I would say this, but on this issue (note – on this issue) they are worse and more precious than Collingwood fans. And that’s saying something.

Time to get over the travel phobia. It’s not that far from Punt Rd. No, really, it’s not!

The AFL should admit that the original edict was a mistake and Collingwood should stop being so precious.

It’s not as if the jumper is the same and it’s not as if they are proposing to wear it when playing against the Pies.

And what’s so necessary that two teams in the same competition cannot have the same colours anyway? Tell that to Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal.

You argue that NM won’t win the spoon because they’ll ‘click’ and ‘reduce the errors’. Basically arguing that they’ll improve. It’s actually hard to believe they could get worse, so of course they’ll improve.
But actually improve to the point where they ‘bounce and skip ahead of rivals’? Hard to see. I’m looking at the potential rivals NM might go past and none look likely.
Hawks? Not the strongest, but well coached and will win games.
GC? Played well so far and have a world of talent. They’ll win more games.
Essendon? May fade but will have wins in the bank by mid year, something NM is unlikely to have.
Collingwood? Have lost a bunch of players but still have way too much talent to spoon it.
GWS? Too much talent to keep losing.
Carlton? Not good but better than NM.

Sorry Dem, just cannot see who North can get past. Even after learning the systems and reducing the errors, there just isn’t enough depth, talent in the 22 or goal scoring ability to go anywhere above position 18.

That’s just delusional on multi levels.
You are saying that somehow WC could have got the players Freo got if they had not squandered their picks. That’s plain silly. They never had a high enough pick to squander. WC never had a high enough pick to say ‘oooh, that Cerra chap’s available, but we’ll take that skinny kid from the Hobart u18’s instead’.
You are also saying that each club gets the same number of picks each round, as if each pick is even. You cannot possibly believe that.
You say Freo drafted brilliantly and WC squandered their picks. Given the picks Freo had, they look to have drafted well. Whether WC would have done as well (or squandered) with the same generous hand we’ll never know.
I actually think they have done well considering the relative low picks they have been given. The trade down with GC that netted Oscar Allen and Liam Ryan for a 5 pick future downgrade (23 to 28) was superb.
The only notable trade out of picks for a player was the Tim Kelly one. And yes, I agree they overpaid. They didn’t get a dud, but did pay one x first rounder too much.

‘Yes, they did have those picks. Tim Kelly is just how they used them.’

I cannot see how you work that out.
WC didn’t have a top 10 pick at any time over those drafts and couldn’t have got any of your ‘read em and weep’ group, with or without the Kelly trade.

Brayshaw – 2017 pick 2. WC first pick -13. Already gone, couldn’t have got him.
Serong – 2019 pick 8. WC first pick – 14 (traded for TK) Even without the TK trade, already gone, couldn’t have got him.
Cerra – 2017 pick 5. WC first pick -13. Already gone, couldn’t have got him.
Sturt – 2018 pick 17. Could be good or a dud. But irrelevant. WC first pick 23 which they traded down for pick 27, Liam Ryan and Oscar Allen. I know what I’d prefer here. But re Sturt – Already gone, couldn’t have got him.
Young – 2019 pick 7. WC first pick – 14 (traded for TK) Even without the TK trade, already gone, couldn’t have got him.
Henry – 2019 pick 9. WC first pick – 14 (traded for TK) Even without the TK trade, already gone, couldn’t have got him. +NGA guy, never available.
Frederick – Not sure why you listed him. Late pick anyone could have had, definitely not one of your top 10 picks, or even a first rounder. Only played a handful of games and may or may not be anything.

Excluding late pick Frederick, every one of those guys was a top 10 pick which WC never had. It’s not like they traded them out or anything, they never had them to start with.
They all look like fantastic players, and I’d love to have them on our list.
But the bottom line is that they were all off the table long before WC got a pick. And still would have been gone without the TK trade.

It’s hard to take too seriously when you have North at 5.
I have them fighting with Adelaide at the bottom. Maybe even the Pies at that end of the ladder.

Richmond can at best stay level, but a fall to 8th seems unlikely.

While I accept the arguments regarding the Saints, 15th seems way too low. Especially in a competition containing unlikely teams such as North, Crows, Hawks, Pies, Melbourne and the Swans.

Could be the last hurrah for WC with Kennedy, Hurn running around for the last time and quite a few others over 30 as well. But cannot see them winning enough away games for 2nd. 5th to 10th.

You have Geelong and the Dogs both missing finals (10th and 11th). One maybe, just can’t see both missing.

Clarko is a factor, and the Hawks aren’t the worst list as best I can tell.
Sydney look the most likely to escape the bottom 4 based on the players they have, the young guys hitting the 2-4 season, 20-60 game stage and the good old SCG advantage.
That leaves a newcomer to the bottom 4 or NM or Adelaide for the spoon. I’m picking NM, Adelaide look ahead in the rebuild and the cleanout was never as dramatic or as thorough as that done by North.

‘Oh, they had those picks.’
Ummm… No they haven’t.
They used picks 14 and 24 from 2019 and pick 18 from 2020 for TK. Last time I looked none of those were top 10 picks.

I keep expecting the Eagles to fall off the cliff. It just doesn’t seem possible that a club can keep making finals without ever getting access to high draft picks.
The last time WC had a top 10 draft pick was Andrew Gaff back in 2010.
How many top 10 picks have Freo, GC, Carlton etc. had since then? I look at the young kids that Freo has and am jealous. Serong, Henry, Young, Brayshaw and Cerra from just the 2018 and 202 drafts. They look like they nailed the drafts, but it is easier when you get more top 10 picks in two years (2020/2018) than WC have had this century.

For years Richmond were that frustrating team to judge. Looked at the playing list and expected easy top 8 or better, but never delivered.
Think I kept a 5-8 rating as a mid point between what they should achieve and what they were delivering.

You are right.
Just thinking logically, if I am in a seat, then each side next to me is free. So others in my row are about 60cm from me. But in the rows in front and behind me the seats directly in front and behind will be free, but the seats diagonally in front and behind will be occupied. These are the seats my manspreading knees (I’m tall) will be within cm of another person.
If someone sneezes (other than being killed by everyone nearby), then they could cover dozens of people with sneezorama badness.
This is so close as to not be remotely socially distanced, so what’s the point?

When I saw the headline I just had to check. Did I sleep in…

and wake up on the 1st of April?

Top 8 would be a big improvement, and is a possible but hardly probable. I’m with Don Freo (see somewhere below) that the Dees are in the group of Possibles.
POSSIBLES
Carlton, Pies, Tiges, Saints, Swans, GC, Dees (thanks DF, except for unders on the Tiges, good rankings all up)

You certainly started with a draft that is going to be difficult to beat.

Not only did it have multiple top picks at the top end, all of whom would be #1 picks most years, it bats deep. Very deep.

There is just a silly amount of later talent in that team.

It’s hard to believe that one of the biggest sporting clubs in the country could get itself into this sort of mess.

When you say… ‘Are there other big, back-ended contracts that loom threateningly in the future? It would be hard to believe that Treloar’s was the only one.’, I have to agree with you.

Is the Grundy contract back ended? Are CFC looking at an escalating payment scale that hurts out to 2027? Who else?

I think the Beams signing was a shambles from beginning to end. The price paid, the contract length and contract size all beggared belief. And financially, paying Beams contract and part of the salaries of a couple of departed players tightens things into the future even more.

I don’t think we’ve seen the end of this.

I actually agree, even if you were joking.
Teal is an awful colour, and combined with silver/black and whatever, it looks awful on television.

The AFL should tell Eddie to stick it and that Port can wear the prison bars for all games except away to the Pies. It’s their real jumper and real colours.

I can’t recall Eddie Everywhere saying anything about this.
For a man who normally has a very loud opinion on anything football, and Collingwood especially, he has been remarkably quiet.

I’m not as negative on Essendon’s efforts as you are.
Daniher is injury prone and may be good or may be a busted flush. Fantasia is a flaky type who can be great one week and a liability for the next month.
Saad is a much greater loss.
Overall I think they got fair value for them.

The true measure of success/fail will only be measured in a couple of years time when we see what picks 6-7-8 end up like.
If they have a win-win-win like Port did with Rozee/Butters/Duursma in 2018 then we’ll all look back in wonderment on how well Essendon did in the 2020 trade period. If they end up with a bag of 3 spuds we’ll be saying the opposite.

You say that ‘Greater Western Sydney isn’t really a place’.
Neither is West Coast a place, and they seem to have a pretty strong identity and level of success.

But I agree that for a young guy the western suburbs of Sydney does not have the same attraction as Bondi or Manly for example. It is something they will struggle with forever.
I can see them as a niche player at best and were only created for the Sydney potential TV revenue.

And yes, Perth should have a Grand Final.

There seems to be two main problems that I can see.

The first, obvious, and commented on problem is the advantage given to teams in 8th and 9th place and 13th and 14th over those at the bottom end of the group of six above them. That totally compromises the fixture. Teams would be chasing 7th and 8th over 5th and 6th. In your setup you would try to offset this a bit by giving the teams in 5th and 6th home games against Port. This punishes Port by making them travel interstate even more. Remember, travel is the curse of the non-vic AFL teams.

The second problem lies with local derbies. These not only are some of the great fan rivalries (Port/Crows, Eagles/Freo), but these games reduce the travel burdens of these already over travelled teams by a game. I’m not sure any of those teams would want an extra cross country flight at the tail end of the season.

L side, M side, W side. There’s a few pretty good ones going.

I’m going for the L side. Lockett, Lloyd, Loewe, Lynch, LeCras etc. just so much scoring potential.

Overall, probably a step down from the M team, but possibly the best forward line of the lot.

Lockett, Lloyd and Loewe would give any backs nightmares, but add in Le Cras and Lewis and Lappin and if I was a back, I’d choose to sleep in on the day we were playing this mob.

I was thinking very similarly.
What AFL fan wouldn’t buy a ticket to a watch a team with McLeod, Matera and Martin in it. The first two still rate as two of the most watchable players I have seen. (yes there are others!)

The second M list would also be pretty good if guys like Modra and McIntosh are missing out.

This actually raises another debate point. Is M the best of the alphabet teams?

I’m sure they do.
Just as West Coast regret giving Collingwood the pick they used to get Grundy in exchange for Sharrod Wellingham.

‘Roar logic: the leading Hit Out and Hit Out to advantage player in the league isn’t a good ruckman.’
I don’t think that’s the argument. It’s more that even if he was dominating, ruckmen don’t win games over dominant mids/fwds or rebounding backs. I read the argument as ‘no ruckman, no matter how good, would be worth that contract in money or length’.

And I actually agree with that. Grundy is an outstanding ruckman having a form slump which he may or may not get over. Regardless, he isn’t worth a Dusty contract. Spending about 8% of your salary cap on 1 player – you want a good return. You want a match winner, time and time again.

Would I want him on my list? Hell yes! Would I want him on my list at $7Mill for 7 years? **** off!

Good article Cameron. Not a GWS bashing exercise and a good analysis of how the club got to where it is now, and where it seems to be going.

But it seems that what you are saying about GWS could be written with one sentence…

‘They’ve got no soul’.