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Once Upon a Time on the Roar

Roar Guru

Joined June 2020

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Did you get to Lanka Land by now I meant to ask?

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

Sure, but not in a case like Faisalabad early 1983 – a lost cause is a lost cause. Same with the 147, 121 and 236 the same year. In none of those three series, did he make runs often enough when it mattered. He wasn’t a bad player by any means, but we don’t need to overhype him.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

No idea but prolly pretty good. I said earlier he was best Indian bat prior to mid 80s.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

So is Two Slips and a Gully actually a full cordon of three people?

West Indies all-time Test XI

Did you know that around about that same time, Richie swam some dangerous waves somewhere or other to save Viv’s life after he had been dragged out by an under current?

Allan Border's greatest knocks in defeat

I vaguely remember that too.

Allan Border's greatest knocks in defeat

Nope. It’s a team game. While I adore Cummins, delaying the declaration in Sydney just so that Usman could progress from low-mid 80s to 100 cost us the test.

Allan Border's greatest knocks in defeat

Gavaskar certainly gorged himself. 22 of his tons were in draws many of them high scoring ones, including both tons at home against the west Indies in 1983-84. There was the 147 not out in the west Indies earlier the same year in a test alredy doomed when he went in with India finishing 3 for 284 in reply to 470. There is no way those windies pacemen got over 3rd gear in that situation, in fact Gomes and Richards bowled 18 of the 79 overs. Immediately prior to that he made 155 against minnows Sri Lanka and in the series prior 127 not out in a lost cause 3rd innings in Faisalabad. Also, at home against a weak Australian attack in late 1986, he made a ton in a high scoring draw in the 3rd test.
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I used to have Gavaskar in my all-time world team on account of the rather superficial statistic of being the only player to have made a test ton in all 7 countries at the time of retirement, but not any more. My rating of him has dropped in a similar way to Matthew Hayden.
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The big myth about Gavaskar that needs destroying is the idea he scored 13 tons against the mighty west indies. In fact he scored only three against them, the three aforementioned non-impacting ones, the other 10 were against the far from mighty west indies of the early 1970s and a tiny number against the emerging west indies of the mid-70s when they still only played two pace bowlers.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

So do a few Indian fans on YouTube.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

I also meant to add that it cannot be understated how much greenidge, Haynes and Richardson were helped by Viv Richards’s mere presence in the line-up even after Lloyd had gone and he (Viv) was no longer at his absolute peak.

West Indies all-time Test XI

While I no longer regard Langer and Hayden as our best, I also do not regard Simpson and Lawry as being indisputably superior to Taylor and Slater.

West Indies all-time Test XI

That sounds impressive and maybe it is when scratching below the surface, but I like this kind of detail:
Mark Waugh made 6 tons that were the only ton of the match, another 2 were the only one in the match for his team and another 5 that were the only one in the innings – this is 65% of his test tons and in those 13 aforementioned tons, on average only 1.4 team mates reached 50.
We can dismiss the runs in Adelaide against saffies in 1997-98 because they weren’t chasing the target but that still leaves only 1.5 for the other 12. And in that Adelaide innings he batted a mere 16 minutes shy of 7 hours, no team mate lasted 2, he faced 305 balls no team mate absorbed 100.
Six of those innings were in deciding tests, only one in a loss and the four draws were all deciders that finished 1-1, 3-1, 1-0 and 1-0.
I never meant to imply Haynes was ordinary, I only questioned his overall impact like described above. I regard Haynes as one of those batsmen who if he’s your 4th or 5th best, then you’ve got an extremely powerful line-up but if he’s your best then you have a relatively ordinary one.

West Indies all-time Test XI

He was India’s best prior to the mid 1980s, but Azharuddin, Tendulkar, Laxman and Kohli are better and Dravid at least just as good. I would rate Sehwag lower because he was predominantly a flat track bully.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

People like Dujon, Healy, Knott, Rod Marsh … they are pragmatists with willow in hand. They know they can bat, but they also know they need their energy for keeping. So with willow in hand, they will care more when going in at 5 for 150 than 5 for 350. Keepers rightly don’t care one little bit for their superficial raw batting average.

West Indies all-time Test XI

I think you are right. Thanks for exactifying.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Greg Chappell’s exact words in pen were “Gibbs’s high tally of wickets was more due to number of overs bowled rather than exceptional ability”. There is more context around it, so anyone can feel free to ask me to elaborate further.

West Indies all-time Test XI

I forget about Reidy.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Apparently Rose Stevenson (think that was his name) was pretty good. Never played an official international match but went on a rebel tour to saffie land as a youngster/fringe dweller.

West Indies all-time Test XI

And still is i guess … 😂

West Indies all-time Test XI

The late (from the roar) Renato Carini and I agree the greatest individual batsman performance in a test series is a near tie between Lara against us in 1999 and Steve Smith in 2019.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Yeah, he was pretty tall.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Garner was 6 8, Ambrose 6 7 McGrath also. Willis was 6 6 and Steve Harmison always seemed like a giant of a man though i don’t know his height. There was Sulaiman Benn out here in 2009 but again I don’t know hos exact height.

West Indies all-time Test XI

And Ian Bishop

West Indies all-time Test XI

Seriously I doubt Gibbs was any better a spinner than Roger Harper. I wonder who the better fielder was if we are talking about being in the 12 …

West Indies all-time Test XI

Sobers and Richards can bowl spin. Greg Chappell himself more or less said in a polite refined way that Gibbs was overrated and I can see why.

West Indies all-time Test XI

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