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The Roar

Brendan NH Fan

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Joined July 2022

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Them raising the wage cap by about 25% for the first year of URC really helped and it is now about 60% more than it was in SR.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Bulls are great at home (even if Munster beat them and on a 5 game unbeaten run in SA) but take them out of SA or even Pertoria and they look average.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Stormers won URC year one for a couple of reason. Their last 8 games involved 1 game outside SA. They had a mid season break. They had all the European Cup weekends off. The second year they did well to make the final but that was down to Munster knocking out Leinster (1) and Connacht knocking out Ulster (2). Let’s see how they go this year playing a quarterfinal way from home. No SA side has topped a Champions Cup group or got past the 1/4s. The fact the Sharks only route to the Champions Cup is via the Challange Cup says how hard it is. Over 14 games even Sharks could make the SRP playoffs.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

And commentators were surprised that patchel could play to SRP standard though he was an ex test player. That’s the depth of some people’s knowledge and why they are surprised when test players find SRP easy.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Being leapfrogged by the URC isn’t a surprise with Benetton having about 20 test players (and making 2 Challange Cup Semis), Scottish teams finally both playing well at the same time and then adding in 3 good SA sides plus the Sharkes the league was always going to improve. If the Welsh could just get a team in the top 8 we would be laughing. Compare that to MP and Drua added who have no professional off field stuff (and little outside match day) but are holding their own.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Why should a team that us probably the most home based player pool of any professional rugby team be excluded. Players like Bernie or Cooney are also Leinster products. If the Leinster talent was spread over the 4 teams they would still be good.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

It’s the financial reality that RA and NZ are slowly waking up to that other unions are making money 52 weeks of the year while their model is based around the WC and Lions and its feast or famine Bordeaux selling 25k for each of their 15+ home games helps them run their team.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

How many players from SRP teams represented other nations. Compare that to European teams and it is stark. Reece had declared himself available to play for Fiji after he signed for Connacht, an incident with his spouse and he was at the Saders and was not allowed to be picked by Fiji. Mata, Botcia are just two examples of PI players who signed their first professional contact with a European club but were able to pick Fiji. One thing often overlooked is that PI players don’t see why they should pay $1000 to represent their country and lose out on club deals because they aren’t available to cover test players while the admistrators make the WR money disappear. That is why many only play test in Europe. If you are hired to cover players who miss the start of the season and periods during the season why would a club pay you more if they have to hire someone to cover you.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

And isn’t that half the Rebels legal case that RA controlled the income, the players etc so they are a connected business.

Rugby Australia meets with Rebels players to discuss options if Super Rugby franchise is culled

If Rebel fold the players are free agents if they choose to be as their position at the Rebels no longer exists.

Rugby Australia meets with Rebels players to discuss options if Super Rugby franchise is culled

If RA are meeting players and finding out where they want to go outside of Melbourne I think they just don’t want to say what it is. Tell playersit is gone and let them get OS contracts. Its not like the other 4 teams don’t have a full squad so if a Rebel comes in then another player is unemployed or not getting any game time.

Rugby Australia meets with Rebels players to discuss options if Super Rugby franchise is culled

You mean like the PIs who came to Europe seeking employment as professional players whose kids grew up in Europe but were robbed from the PI national teams. Bill Mata got a contract to play in Scotland but was allowed to play for Fiji with no issues. Reece, Frizel etc who play in NZ or Oz had to agree to not play for their place of birth in order to get a SRP contact. It is why a player who comes to Europe from outside the 6Ns is much more like to represent their home nation than that go to Oz or NZ. Take teams like Wales and Scotland who do the same as the PIs to England but are vilified by Oz and NZ because they have OS players who were born in England because their parent migrated to London. Take out the heritage players and OS players drops massively for a team like Scotland.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Agree on Telea but if Jordan and Reece are fit does he start still.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

SRP is a 14 game season and you only need to finish in the top 8. NZ sides rest their Test players for about 30% of the games. While many teams might not be able to fight on two fronts they could do 14 game season with ease. We have seen how much the SA sides have had to work on building depth. We also saw how much the SA sides were exposed around the ruck and watching SRP they all seem to have the same frailties. Small changes like the Blues and Reds and they are great defensively. But that’s par for the course in Europe. Also the lack of kicking conversions or even kicking points instead of to the corner would be a massive difference in the tight games.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

I guess Ireland must have some coach getting so much out of so little. You have still to say that you think Rogard is at the level A Smith was in the final or that the locks are as good as the ones in the final. All you have said is we have a bunch of people that should be better.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

So test rugby affects club rugby. NZ team was built off the backs of many of the stars coming into the twilight years or have left SRP. We aren’t talking about the best of a country we are talking one provincial team against another. Logic say that teams with the most players will provide the most test quality players. Is it NZ path way of the fact there is little else sport to play professionally.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

During the 6 Nations when test players were gone as were all the u20s. Munster had a hooker making his first professional game and looked fine. Munster also played an 8 at tighthead lock, that was the extent of the teams the Saders played.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

WC and the players have been on the top of the pile for three years. Unless you are Toulouse and Leinster who have nearly 20 current internationals its hard to stay at the top of the pile (just ask Sarries).

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Agree, they lost to the Stormers by a last kick of the game in SA and they then had to travel to play Leinster. I think few people in Europe would have them 15th best team in Europe. Top 10 Europeans for sure but most would have as top 5.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

But Dusty how many of them are better than the players who were in the match 23 in the WC final. if Perofeta is in the squad he is behind DMac and BB and RM still. So being picked by the ABs in July just means that the players who can be picked worst than most of the the other players. Blues might get locks picked but is that down to SW and BR gone or they are better players.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Regarding Nepo and Angus, One was the back up TH for the national side the other one wasn’t. The fact that Nepo is better at his core job says he a better player. Even Cotter does not seem sold on Angus with him only stating 6/13 games. Nepo was only bench 4 games last season for the Blues.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

I can tell you that the SRP sides did not out bid an NH side for their services so then it must mean that they were not wanted. Who was going to take Patchel or Shields as they were ok but most teams have better starters based on current form. Your argument around Roots and CCS is a bit short sighted. How old were they when they left and did they start a test match as soon as they moved. Moving at 18 and and then being 21 with 25 months of professional training is alot different to Shields who played test games over 5 years ago, was unable to fine a contact, (yes worse players but NH sides have 4 players per position and he wants to start) who walks back into a SRP side. Shields left after SR 2018. He played for Wasps, then got a short term deal for the second worst team in France. He then walks back into the same side in the twilight of his career not the prime of his career as he did when he joined Wasps. Patchel started 3/17 games for the Scarlets who finished 14th last season in the URC. Roots played 1 games for the Saders in 2020 before the season was cut short so he was a SR player. He then plays in the Rainbow Cup for Ospreys and then plays for Ospreys and then moves to Exeter, after 4 seasons in Europe he then gets called up to England. Look at Antonio, was deemed to big, to fat, to slow for NPC but in three years was a test TH. Imagine having to wait until you are 21/22 before you get into a professional environment when others are getting in at 18/19. CCS was born in England, and moved to NZ and was making all the right teams at underage like Canterbury u19 and was even training with the Warriors. He then gets offered a professional contract back home and takes it. He is 21, made is Prem debut in the 21/22 season and played u20s for England in 2022.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Do the have the kicking game to unlock the NH defenses. Look at the Sharks, they for ages didn’t have a 10 that could play the kicking game and struggled against the stronger teams. From what I see SRP and J1 are all about speed of the game and attack over defense. If Oyonnax keep the ball for 10 minutes and just bash the line how many penalties will they win and how far can the players run after being hit and having every ruck be a contest. We saw with OZ that once you have to contest the breakdown you lose territory and concede points.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

Not if it was a league of 19 rounds, SRP teams would struggle for depth. Look at the benches on Saturday in Toulouse v Leinster and compare that to the SRP final bench. Even look at teams like Munster, Sarries, La Rochelle and what they are brining off the bench.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

As DMac showed against a Quinns B side he is poor against organized defenses which means that he would struggle more against Euro sides like Macus Smith unless you have a massive 12 like Smith does who the defense is more afraid of. With that 12 leaving Quiinns will be worse next year and Smith will look more like he does at test level.

World club rugby power rankings: How Super Rugby's best teams compare with the northern giants

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