The Roar
The Roar

Goalsonly

Roar Rookie

Joined August 2018

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Poet. Musician. Filmaker...Youknow.. Goals are the big story always. Let Goals tell the story on the ladder.

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I loved it.
And tom Stewarts.
i liked the way he went up with both legs bent equally which is a vulnerable position.
One knee bent still protects you but when both legs are bent you are fully commited.
His smile was so beautiful to see and so rare.
I don’t know why we rate anger as a more appropriate emotion in competitive sport when joy is where the real amazing skills rise to the surface.

Outrage is ruining our game

I think the AFL is awesome in the way it unites Melbourne to make a sense of community better than any other organization in the city.
I am sure it’s the same elsewhere too.
I hope they take the theme rounds and extensions out into the community even further.
They have so much support it is kind of magical.
Having a whinge is part of footy and not it’s best point but ….
I am reminded of an old saying
Life is mostly froth and bubble; Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another’s trouble, Courage in your own.
So let fans be negative and watch your step you don’t get sucked in.
But at least they get it off their chest.
If they go on too much then you can always try to out negative them and have a bit of fun.
It’s only a point of view.

Outrage is ruining our game

If you think thats a rant well read it again without projecting your emotions onto it.
But now I understand where the “spare me ” comes from.
And if you also believe that the umpires calling every technical free they see is going to open up the game well your a long way off the mark. Every umpire sees the game differently and the rules are open to interpretation. The umpires need to express themselves in the ebb and flow of the contest. They have to judge a players intentions and players are always going to bluff. So tiggy touchwood technical calling won’t do what you believe it will.
The best bluffers will get even more frees.
I know it’s frustrating when you see a kick that’s not paid but you just have to back the umpires in.
I do encourage your further ideas on this of course as there is truth in what you say.
No … it’s the coaches trying to eke out a win and who can blame them.
It’s not uncommon among coaches to echo the sentiment that we want to keep them to 5 goals or they pride themselves on how low the other teams score is.
Yet in the annuls of history we don’t celebrate these achievements.
The cats 37 goals or whatever it is not that hard to bring to mind but what is the lowest score of all time.
Why not give disincentive points and
Maybe the Brownlow should go ta a tagger.
Put Ryan Crowly on the posters.
That’s getting a bit ranty can you spot the difference?
Anyway cheers to you Richie My sounding board.
I just don’t rate winning that highly when the game is what is important.
Your ideas of Incentive points are along the lines and at least address the issue.
I do notice other codes experimenting with them Netball and Rugby among them.
I just find them a bit peacemeal. (sic)
But they may be the political compromise in a world of differing opinions.
I’m a revolutionary in this case and a dreamer.
I see sport as a contest for sure but to bring out the best in yourself not just to beat the other guy.
Where’s the joy in that?
But I do say Laurels to the winners so there is that.
The exhibition match theory could work though.
There’s kind of the seeds of it there with the thematic rounds the AFL does so well.
You see if the teams were aligned to charities in the communities they represent then everyone would win.
You know they say you can tell the relationship between two countries by where their games are at.
cheers

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

Lucky for me this conversation is not just taking place in your imagination, let alone those other imaginations you speak of.
The Eastern philosophy business was to show you why you are helping me present my idea by directly opposing it, cos that’s the western way. Kapish?
Anyways…. I work hard on these so I find the “spare me” routine kind of old.
So… the point of all this is to make the game a better spectacle which doesn’t seem to bother you but I hear it first hand and broadcast far and wide on Melbournes top brekky show. It’s a thing…boring football. John Burns (3AW)first thing Monday morning this week he says “I saw three games of footy and they were all boring” He’s talking about the brand of game that is supposed to be the top one in the country. He should be lauding high marks and spectacular goals but no it’s kind of samy samy and low scoring.
And that’s this year with a more free flowing style than the last few years infestation of rolling mauls.
The AFL is implementing rule changes not because they want to.
It’s because of the way the game is looking and the low scoring.
All I have done is located the cause of the negative tactics which is in the way the results are tabled.
Yes it cuts to the core of what sport is all about and how we need some kind of loser to make us feel like winners.
You say people won’t be satisfied unless its winner takes it all.
It’s fine to say that but you are not confronting the situation.
Cos at the moment a lot of people aren’t going home satisfied either way.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

You help by seeing if the idea stands up in the face of opposition which it has so far.
I am not attached to it and if something better comes along then hooray for them.
In the WESTERN culture we do have a rather primitive combative way of advancing ideas.
We try to destroy it and then if it still stands we accept it as just normal.
In the Eastern philosophy they just look at an idea or object and see if it’s any use to them.
We have one group of politicians running our country and another trying to destroy the ones trying to run it.
It’s par for the course for an idea to be ridiculed and dismissed out of hand and opposed and exhausted or ignored.
It has to stand up to all that and those who present it are the worst kind of person for a time…idiot, buffoon, glory seeker, whatever can be thought of to try to see if they can be put off.
Maybe it is but I havent heard anything that’s a deal breaker for me.
I understand the win loss thing and I do wrestle with the idea that maybe having winners is more important than having a spectacular game but so far all I see is more and more frustrated crowds bought on by lack of goals.
Maybe Your point system is an improvement as it does acknowledge the winner while rewarding high scores so it has those things going for it.
I don’t see that defense needs any recognition ladder wise as the test of that is the other teams score which is already recorded so no necessity to double down on that.
I did have an idea that maybe the winner of each game might win something other than ladder points while the goals go on the ladder.
maybe a charity or sponsor or something for kids or juniors or whatever. something to be proud of but at the same time let the scoring be the reward on the ladder.
I just don’t see the need for the points.
Where is the necessity I say?

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

What alternatives?

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

Okay thanks Richie I won’t get personal with you.’
I appreciate your comments and in a funny way helping me present my case.
It may be a lame idea but it only has to service the game better than the four point system which is responsible for negative coaching.
Crowds are becoming more frustrated, as the scores drop and the game kind of repeats itself more than before.
Earlier you spoke of unintended consequences which is a popular phrase this year.
Well dig this little pearl…
We are living with the unintended consequences of the games founders and their primitive four point system.
Win/Loss is simple, everyone gets it and it works up to a point.
It just doesn’t cater for spectacle.
Gettin more dour by the hour.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

“In terms of cheapening the win, it does if the end game is finals because a 1 point win makes no difference to the end game than a 1 point loss. That is the problem. ”
You do have problems Richie (or at least you go out of your way to find them) and it would be better for everyone if you admitted it.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

Yeah I agree the footy is always good, well mostly…
I like goals and I think the way the results are tabled encourages negating skills.
I know a lot of the crowds are frustrated with the brand.
It’s negligence to ignore that.
Recording the ultimate achievements in the game (goals) directly onto the ladder solves the defensive mindsets.
Two men enter one man leave is a primitive concept.
Winner take all is not a necessity.
Acknowledge the game itself and let it speak.
The numbers 16 – 14 (or whatever) is not a crime against humanity.
It’s an extremely creative and timely suggestion.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

I see that the ultimate test of the teams defensive structures is the score the other team has recorded.
It is already been allocated some numerical value on the ladder as the other teams score and that’s enough.
keep it to the ultimate simplicity.
you get your score and they get theirs
The competition will even things out as to who is playing the most creative footy.
There are suspicions that it’s a system ripe for abuse but these are idle rumors.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

Are you looking for a ladder that most accurately reflects what happened on the field?

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

the rule changes have made the game less clogged if that’s what you mean. I think it’s the runners staying out of the way.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

I’d trade all your little mini problems for a chance to see some good footy, in a heartbeat.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

you are smart to be observing kids for how best to enjoy sport.
they’ll tell you something like this.
I’ll try and win and I’ll keep score and I’ll keep playing creative footy and I’ll keep bringing the best out in myself in order to match my fellow competitors whether there are four points up for grabs or not.
If you believe four points makes you a “proper” winner as you say and that without those four points your victory is somehow cheapened because the “Loser” got not much less than you on the ladder well all I can say is that the win is not cheapened by the lack of four points.
If you win you win and four points is just an accounting exercise.
Additionally if the Tigers concentrated just on getting goals rather than being scared stiff (petrified) of losing and becoming easybeats their turnaround may have not been so prolonged.
As for fearing the devilry of match fixing I don’t see the difference to any other system.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

what a cosy pair you two make.
On this thread he is directly opposing the idea rather than exploring the merits of it.
I’ll give you a clue what that make him and it starts with A.
As for counting goals over wins.
I only propose that because the nature of the game is to score goals but that is getting lost because of those who compulsively indulge in the winner/loser mentality which is like kindergarten for sporting students.
We all love winners in every field of life and they should be rewarded but what they get on the scoreboard should be enough in and of itself.
Adding four points after the fact raises the dramatic stakes up to a point but it encourages coaches to concentrate on negating skills.
I don’t see how losing the four points equates to losing anything we love about the contest.
It’s been great watching the teams organize themselves the last 15 years to shut down space all over work as a team defensively but really …?
I just think the game has outsmarted itself and the four points are all everyone cares about and the game itself can go hang.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

deep down i think you know what I’m talking about.
This seems a tad academic and semantic.
You will always have what you say…
it’s a given in any sporting contest
it’s innate to the very nature of sport.
You compete to bring out the best in yourself.
If you beat the opposition well bully for you.
I don’t know why you believe such things are even in question.
Maybe you would rather a war to a circus?
you like a fight and you need an enemy.
But putting up the basics of a sporting contest as a logical point when what is at stake is the aesthetics of our national code.
but I will say it again
Those things you say are always going to be there no matter what the score and what the tabling system.
It just seems a bit of an A equals A computation which is the formula of stupidity.

Are the rule changes leading to higher scoring?

if you are playing the antagonist in what should be a creative exercise you will always find the exception that will justify your position.
I surrender … you win and you can have four points as you are the victor but it was a pretty dour discussion.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

The problems are crowd frustration, audience involvement and boring spectacles.
It’s much more open this year as teams have learned to use the whole field to open up the ground.
The things is how quickly it gets shut down around the centre and half forward but it’s better to watch this year and there are plenty of close contests.
Not having the runners trying to control everything is giving the players more freedom.
Personally I’d prefer a few more goals and if the incentives on the ladder could provide for that then maybe that’s what a ladder should do.
Cater for the beauty of the game rather than the token formality of a victory.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

You CAN fiddle with ladder mechanisms if they promote defensive tactics over the creative skills the game was designed to enjoy.
Numbers can be used change the nature of things.

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

Conversely when the cats broke the record for the high scroring it was scintillating because it was the best kind of history.
Everyone’s got GF’s but only one has the highest score of all time.
Bring back the blowout and let the records fall.
When Buddy kicks 13 it’s a sensation.
Let the champions free.
I thinks it’s cheap and nasty and mean to demand low scores just so you can stay glued to your telly.
Maybe you could learn some different observational skills that weren’t dependent on a less that 5 goal margin.
You could learn to enjoy the magical acrobatic feats our amazing athletes in a fever of scoring.
Surely audience involvement demands better footy and less fights.
To see our elite shackled by negative tactics is becoming a social problem.

Are the rule changes leading to higher scoring?

The blowout theory is too easy.
The blowout theory is so pat.
“High scores might stop my drama.
I don’t want a bar of that.”

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

Defensive skills don’t need to be acknowledged in the numerical tabling of the result.
It’s not an imperative that the defensive strategies are rewarded on the ladder.
Would there be less negative (dour) football if the result tabling numbers rewarded what you did when you HAVE got the ball rather than encourage the easy option of guarding space and closing down champions? Defence is easy once you know how and currently it is brilliantly executed. It’s just not that great a spectacle when measured against the games potential were the tabling rewards more oriented toward the ‘FUN’ skills the game can produce. Is this business versus pleasure?

The easy fix to the AFL's scoring woes

I like to watch teams ability to hit the scoreboard and am wary of overreacting to ladder position and general noise about how great or how terrible teams are.
The cats may well win but ….
Brad Scott is an amazing coach and though North may not be in the same ball park as the cats as far as results have gone they may be storming down the race.
Carlton aren’t terrible and the only reason they got thrashed was that they weren’t prepared for a North team who finally gelled.
The Bulldogs are in a similar boat. They surprised Richmond.
Mental preparation is huge in coaching.
It’s probably the main determining factor in team performance.
All this talk about not having the cattle is only true up to a point.
One player will blossom under one coach but blunder under another.
The nature of the preparation is determined by the impression of the quality of the foe.
Carlton expected North the cellar dwellers to turn up and got North the scoring machine.
I expect North to become better than at their Prelim best of a few years ago at some point this year and it may not be too far off.
The only safe preparation is to treat every week like it’s a GF.
Then you’ll be ready when one does come up.

Geelong are setting the pace; the AFL season is in their control

Calm down yourself Davo. Maybe even take a nap. Not many coaches would have got North to two preliminaries. I expect a ding dong battle.

Geelong are setting the pace; the AFL season is in their control

Control might be you try for but in reality only happens for moments at a time,
let alone half a season.
Responding to mistakes with a strong culture is the real golden ability.
Teams that drop their heads lose purpose real quick and it only takes one player to do it.
The cats have developed their individuals and are just not losing purpose when someone stuffs up.
They have built on some early wins and are the top team on the ladder but really the difference between top and bottom is very exaggerated.
That’s why the cats are playing keepings off when they get a few goals in front.
They don’t need to score as much as they need to deny the other team any involvement in the contest and so any chance to rally.
They know any team can turn it on at any time given half a chance.
This makes for some pretty boring spectacle but as long as four points are the only motive it’s a case of job done.
North’s new players are starting to gel and that’s danger for everyone.. cats included.

Geelong are setting the pace; the AFL season is in their control