The Roar
The Roar

greg parker

Roar Rookie

Joined March 2017

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“Well one of the old magpie loonies learnt how to use a laptop – and they say the education system is failing us. Sadly it gets worse from thier [sic]” No, they are right. It is failing us, as evidenced by your spelling and grammar. Went to a Private School, did we, cob?

Lets [sic] look at some real live facts

Oh yes, please, Mr. BoonBoon sir!

Campbelltown crowds over the years have averaged 9362, with last year a massive 9945 so not much off the long term average despite this boom in population.”

To quote Benjamin Disraeli (look him up, if you can work out how) “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.” Statistics can be used to make any argument, especially if stripped of context. The context here is ( a ) the people of Campbelltown are well aware that this is not their team, and that the team itself treats it like an away game. They also get only a small number of games there, usually at times of the year that are not crucial, and not against against opposition that might actually help boost the crowd.

Give the area it’s own team with the name Macarthur and the crowds will flock back to the games.

As for this Wests Tigers was/is just a rebadged Balmain – the number of games have always been equally been [sic] shared between the clubs, the clubs [sic] training centre is at the origional [sic] home of the Wests Magpies, the jersey has always had a Magpie on it but never a Balmain logo, extra games such a trials have always been predominatley [sic] at Campbelltown and Camden much closer to Magpies world then Balmain, Wests are now the majority owners but it is Wests Ashfield (which has both Tigers and Magpies logo’s adorning it) as Cambelltown stopped putting in money well before Balmain did.

Here are the facts about why Wests Campbelltown stopped kicking in.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/why-the-western-suburbs-magpies-are-saving-the-balmain-tigers-20160406-gnzbyc.html?fbclid=IwAR2HymU46pLXXaG2Qlrhpoex37u5fOl3GIYAnwmUOFzioxZ_wqB6JoVlKQI

The Magpie logo: you need a guided tour and a compass to find it. And the tiger is splattered all over the merch. No sign of a magpie.

As for rest of your dribble (wipe your damn chin, please!), the team is NEVER referred to as Wests – always “The Tigers”, and sometimes as Balmain… and whenever they play at Leichhardt, those idiot commentators fall over themselves to see who is going to be the first to say how great it is to be the spiritual home of the Tigers… blagh….

Now for this population thing – Yes the population of Campbelltown is booming so that by 2036 the Cambelltown Council will still be smaller then the Inner West Council. What the inner west has going for it is that it is still close to many other council areas so the overall population will still be massively more then those within 15-20mins of Cambelltown which is a long way from almost everyone else other then Cambelltown. Also the growing population is from migration and migration alone with more people from Australia leaving Cambelltown then moving too it which is fine in itself but the game and definatly [sic] the Magpies have never shown much ability to engage migrant communities other then by the Wests Tigers.

Ah huh. Sorry, but I have to guess what you are trying to say here. Is English YOUR second language? If you are really saying what it looks like you are saying, you are probably beyond arguing with, reaching out to, or attempting to educate.

So I will ignore the racial BS factor you’ve brought into it, and which could not possibly be more wrong on so many levels — I’ll just remind you that the inner city has limited juniors – unlike Macarthur. In fact, the whole reason Balmain and Wests were forced into this shotgun wedding was because Balmain was so poorly served by junior talent, we were forced to share ours with them long before the Joint Venture.

Frankly I don’t know why your post was even left up. Your “facts” are anything but, and your ad hom couldn’t be more obvious. If I had called a tosser like you a “loony” and cast asparagus at your edjucashun, I’m pretty sure my ass would have been modded right out of here.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Wests was Madge’s second preference. He was also Broncos second preference.
So what did we end up with? Someone who rates Wests behind Broncos and who Broncos rate behind Seibold.
That does not inspire confidence an any front – least of all his ability to stay the distance.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

I had no plans one way or another about being a regular here. I write. I like certain sports. Those things leave the door open – unless of course, it is being closed on me.
Yes, some people move on. And some jump on everything said. My last post on the Wests Canterbury hypothetical was mainly aimed at someone in that latter group, who extended the jumping to answering despite apparent ignorance of what a hypothetical actually is. You may be quite at home with a forced JV to form the Canterbury Tigers, but the “loudest” ones here opposed to the ideas presented, I believe would be wailing like Banshees if the Balmain history and identity was subsumed by Canterbury.
As for not replying to inquiry regarding Liverpool, sorry… but I am one person. It has been impossible to answer every single point, or even every point in every post – and I suspect that would not be seen in a good light anyway.
As for Liverpool – Canterbury can and should have the area.
“Smug”? Moi?
“Won”? Won what? I was attempting to get the most vocal to try and see it from a different perspective. Either they “got” that is what I was doing, or they didn’t.
My point with Taylor is this: Marina Go stood before the media and explained the sacking on the grounds that large losses would no longer be acceptable, and nor would not making the finals. On that basis, his successor should not have lasted as long as he did. We were lied to again for no reason, or they make the rules up as they go along, or there was a hidden agenda. As an example of hypocrisy, it does not get any clearer.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Quotes from a 2013 Masters’ article:
Future investment in the joint venture has been the cause of friction between Wests and Balmain.
A $6.8 million debt at Balmain Leagues Club has meant the Tigers have experienced difficulty answering calls to satisfy the joint venture’s rising debt. The Wests Group offered to provide Balmain’s share of new funding in exchange for a casting vote at board meetings but this was rejected by Balmain.
It is understood Wests Campbelltown’s frustration with the failure of the two owners to reach agreement on funding precipitated their withdrawal. Wests Campbelltown chief executive Tony Mathew claimed his club’s exit would allow the Wests half of the joint venture to consolidate. ”There has been a lot of discussion in regards to an overdue change and restructuring. Those arrangements will still be 50-50. It’s just that our one director out of 10 won’t be there. We’ve still got our support of rugby league, that’s still our primary charter and we’re still going to be involved in junior rugby league out here. We just think in the consolidating and restructuring of Wests Tigers going forward, we’re happy to do this to allow Wests Tigers to move forward.”

Asked why Wests Campbelltown had chosen now to exit the joint venture that began in 2000, he said: ”Our operation at Wests Campbelltown is very different now to the one 13 years ago … Our circumstances have changed here and yet we still spend an enormous amount of time on Wests Tigers. We just feel it needs to be consolidated … We do get on well with Wests Ashfield … we’ve never been closer.”

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

I’ve been to a couple of Tigers games, and the magpie image is the minority.

That is because of a longstanding strategy to boycott WT games and show the black and colors at Western Suburbs games in lower grades only. I am a bit ambivalent about this, though I understand the reasoning.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Some comments from a December 2018 story by Roy Maserts
The Magpies have been the under-acknowledged half of the Wests Tigers merger for half a generation now, with most NRL followers under the age of 25 knowing the club only as the Tigers.
Manly-Warringah is known universally as Manly; Canterbury Bankstown as Canterbury and Cronulla Sutherland as Cronulla but the NRL and media tend to lop off the first name of Wests Tigers.
Not so for another joint venture club, St George Illawarra.
Many Steelers supporters will argue their club disappeared in the merger but Illawarra joined the then NSWRL in 1982, while the Magpies are a 1908 foundation club.
All of which makes it difficult for passionate Wests supporters to understand why, with the March 31 deadline expiring for penniless Balmain to remain in the joint venture, that the Ashfield-based Magpies club have steadfastly insisted the Tigers name will remain forever.
But Wests insist the retentions of the Tigers name and some Balmain equity are not negotiable.
Given this, the question must be asked: would Balmain do for Wests what Wests are doing for Balmain?
Based on the early operation of the Wests Tigers joint venture, the answer would be, no.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

People tend to move on… but not all. Many have replied to a number of posts and my last comment on the hypothetical was aimed mainly at the poster who allegedly replied without knowing what a hypothetical was.

As for me missing a question from you… fair dinkum? I am one person replying to how many? It has been impossible to address everything thrown at me. I am not a Russian troll factory!

Liverpool should be absorbed by Canterbury. No if’s, no buts.

My point regarding Taylor was this: he was sacked after 3 rounds because large floggings were no longer acceptable, and nor was missing making the finals. That was in essence, what Marina Go said. Based on that, his successor shouldn’t have lasted as long as he did.

Those are the facts – not emotion.

As for me not hanging around, I have no plans either way. I write. I also have an interest in League and boxing and major sporting events like the Olympics. I had no thoughts either way about any future here.

Smug? Moi?

Winning? Winning what? I was making a point to draw out how the current pro Wests Tigers 4eva group would react if the team was forced into a JV and bit by bit, had it’s identity stripped to the point where the new team is a just a rebranded Canterbury. You claim you are good with it – good for you. I believe you. I don’t believe those with the loudest protests against my proposal for a Macarthur Magpies would be quite so relaxed about it.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Interesting that no one is game to say what they would do or how they would feel if this hypothetical became reality.

But silence often does speak louder than words.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Tommy doesn’t need a last name, There is no other Tommy. The ratio of ex-Balmain boofheads being interviewed for WT stories, compared to ex-Magpies runs at about 100:1 and Elias is allowed to get away uncorrected with calling them Balmain. If the team had been called Balmain Magpies and only ex Wests players were ever interviewed and they referred to the team as Western Suburbs… you would hear the screaming all the way to Timbuktu.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Do the maths. I was referencing an era going back 50 years.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Works for me, Yob. Although I do think Wests should move to Campbelltown.
The argument against it is similar to the argument against more teams with the system in place – not enough football talent to spread around. Not sure I buy that argument entirely. It would really mean players don’t have to go to England and France or switch codes and there will be more effort put into developing juniors and scouting in the bush. Money to spend on 24 teams could be a real issue though — especially for B teams.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

It is still only an occasional game there – and that is the only real indicator of Illawarra involvement. What commentator ever refers to them by that full name?

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

It is difficult to come with Aussie animals for mascots. Any decent ones are already taken. In the bush, it gets a bit silly. The “The Forbes Platypi” Just wrong on so many levels – not least beimng that Platypi is not the plural.

But others are pretty special and that does add something to their value. I include the Magpie in that.

I would suggest that you reach out to Roy Masters at SMH as he has a voice in league and still has a passion for the Magpies and that would assist you in articulating your position broadly.

Roy is well and truly on the radar, but the email provided for him at SMH does not work. I also tried other email formats used by the SMH, but they didn’t work out either.

We’ll get to him somehow somewhere along the way.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Not sure there are any Liver Birds in Australia, so that is where that argument ends. On the other hand, trust me on this, Campbelltown is full of magpies.
If your suggestions had been in place, it would probably mean no push to stand alone.
The issue is that Wests Ashfield do not want to move to – or even just increase their presence in Campbelltown and they have the utter gall to try and pitch themselves as champions of the region.
There is no solution we offer that pleases them and there are no plans they have that please us. With Balmain having 25% and the rest of the board stacked with Tiger bias, and with Wests supplying 100% of the funding to keep the Tigers in the game, the tension will never abate until one side kills the other side off.
In the end, either we win and the Magpies come back, or they bit by bit, do away with all traces of the Magpies – starting with the Juniors and working up. Once that mission is complete, they win because it will be virtually impossible to unscramble that egg.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Thanks. Happy to stand corrected on some of what I said. My main point was though that for a person just coming into following League, it won’t be obvious that this is a Joint Venture called St George Illawarra.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Yep. 25%of the say and 0% of the funding. They are on a pretty good wicket there. Hopefully not for much longer tho.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

LOL. That is what a hypothetical situation is.

Hypotheticals are used to show people a particular situation from a point of view that allows them to better understand the actual situation.

I am asking what people would do/think IF it did happen. Because there is no difference between my HYPOTHETICAL (pretend) situation and this very real situation regarding the forced Joint Venture of Wests and Balmain.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Try “sensible”. Is that better?

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

LOL. Is this a leg pull?

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Yep. Well aware of what their position is. Numbers can lie. The petition has had over 5000 likes on FB – but only about 6% of those signed it. People are strange and fickle creatures.

I am not about to give away all of our strategy, but if WA think we have not thought of every angle from every POV, they are sadly mistaken.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Yes, the Center of Excellence has been mentioned once or thrice in the past, It is in partnership with Canada Bay Council.
Were you aware that campbelltown is also building one? They are. And I am sure Cambo Council would love to discuss the use of it with a locally-based NRL team. Meaning the team would have access to two while also having the capacity to rent the Concord facility out to help fill the coffers.
Donald is an easy target, I got lazy It was late and my eyes were getting sore. I ‘d bet I’m the only person here who has had any dealings with his good friend, Roger Stone.
But that is a different story for a different forum.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

So….hypothetically speaking, you’ll be happy if the NRL in it’s infinite wisdom, decides the Wests Tigers are on the verge of extinction because of the tiggers debt and forces a merger with oh say, Canterbury and will thereafter be known as Wests Bulldogs or Canterbury Tigers — take your pick. You’re happy because hey… we’re the Wests Bulldogs! Or the Canterbury Tigers as the case may be. That’s the way it is now.
And let no man nor beast try and cut them asunder! You will shout down the naysayers with rabid claims that the Bulldog brand is King! And no one over 50 even remembers what a Balmain is, except for vague whispers about some loud-mouthed hooker. Besides…. there is a one cm tigger on the inside of the left sleeve so there is still a presence.
Meanwhile 20 years sail by, you’ve had nearly as many coaches as years, who each get to declare a new “rebuilding phase” (except if you’re an ex Magpie player!), the club has made atrocious decisions on the playing roster, and it is run by a bunch of Neanderthals in suits who think they are smart, but in reality, they survive only through rat cunning and survival instinct.
But it’s all GOOOOOOD!!!!!!! Because the West Canterbury Tiger-Bulls have lots of members!
Well, you are welcome to keep your hypothical West Canterbury Tiger-Bulls. No please. Be my guest. Keep them.
I’ll be too busy cheering for the Macarthur Magpies.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Yes, Don so do I. But I am not saying it to tens of thousands of viewers. And nor is it really even the same thing. City City is not a Joint Venture. Referring to it As Easts is not going to upset their non-existent JV partner, the Dora Creek Swampies, or the fans of the Swampies.

I disagree that it is understandable that it happens. As I said before, it is not a mere slip of the tongue, They are working off scripts in those pre-call spiels. .

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Mates and Old Boys. Although I think there is more to it – and that does not include their putrid excuses.
One example is that they moved the goalposts before the last election to keep two incumbents in place. No surprise they were two pro tigger members.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west

Ha! You forgot University!

It is never too late. Newcastle is exhibit A.

Rugby league and the battle for hearts and minds in the west