Chris,

With all due respect I must disagree. I can’t name a single time Watson won a game, played a game changing innings, or had a destructive spell with the ball (maybe this is just my ignorance). I can name all three for Stokes.

I think the reason for our disagreement is that you’re basing this in the stats – I agree that stats wise they are very similar right now, but I would bet a lot of money I don’t have on that changing throughout the next 5/10 years of Stokes!

JW

Brian,

I agree with your call on Ballance. He shouldn’t be in the side at all, would get torn apart in Aus facing your attack!

Robson for Jennings is an interesting call, he seemed to have a flaw that got found out at test level and I’m unsure if he’s ironed that out. Plus a tendency to get bogged down without scoring, increasing the pressure on Cook.

Westley could be a worry. I will judge him more on 2 tests against a good SA bowling attack in conditions / pitches unfavourable to batting (only 3 centuries total in the whole series!). If he goes down under and fails, I could be happy with Clarke coming out to replace him! Hales at 5?

JW

Mike,

Thanks for a good balanced comment, it’s good to hear an Aussie say they would actually want some of our players in their team – wouldn’t have thought it 20 years ago!

Bairstow, Stokes, and Ali all form a pretty good middle / lower middle order for sure. I’m not entirely confident of your call for Butler to come in, I love how he plays and would want to see that translate to a longer format but I’m not sure how well it would do. For me, that places Root and Hales a place too high too – but I agree with giving Hales a go at 5 given his form.

Stoneman or Davies (Lancashire) to open for me, I think Stoneman has deserve his chance. I like Westley at 3 and think he can make runs as well, despite having an obvious flaw!

JW

AGordon,

Wow there’s a lot of one-eyed fanboy stuff in there. Let’s take this line by line:

“Fast bowlers will break down” – true, fast bowlers do break down. Remind me of your pacers injury record vs England’s pacers injury record?

“Trott & Swann from last series” – Trott who was struggling majorly with mental health issues and clearly a shadow of his former self, Swann who was just back from injury himself.

“Batmen techniques get found out” – true enough, just like any tour at international level, each has it’s own fairly unique examinations.

“Cracks at 2, 3 & 5” – correct. This is a weakness in our lineup and a major concern this close to an Ashes series. Hopefully those who come in (for my money Stoneman or Davies at 2, Hales or Clarke at 5) for WI can get some scores and confidence.
(This also ignores, as previously mentioned, the potential cracks in the Aus line up too. Do they get exposed or proved to be solid in the Bangladesh tour? Who knows)

Cupboard bare for spin – there are a few options in the county game, but none who are too close to getting capped I would say. Again, I wouldn’t have said that spin would be our main concern before a tour to Australia – if Moeen can do a good containing job and chip in with some wickets then that’s great.

Not sure where the prediction of disarray comes from, even before a game has been played! If you could elaborate on that it would be great thank you.

JW

Giri,

My point was not that they shouldn’t be expected to score runs, as Rellum says they are batsman after all, you said that they are relied upon to score runs every game (the implication being that nobody else will).

I agree that there are weakness in the English top order, but I think there are the pieces there for a strong lineup. Root and Cook are fixtures, I like the addition of Westley and possibly Malan, and I like the removal of Dawson. England are short a genuine spinner, but that has always been the case since Swanny left (I would say Moeen is at least as good a bowler as Ashley Giles).

Moeen is in the team for his batting primarily, and if you look at recent performances you will see how he has benefited from finally having a permanent position in the order. He has batted every position from opening to number 9, and having found a place at 7 he is now averaging 68.55 in that position with 3 fifties and 3 tons from 14 innings.

Rellum – I agree that number 6 should be expected to score runs, I’m all for another batsman coming in for Dawson. Too many all-rounders spoil the scorecard! It does seem that England are trying to let the positive cricket from the ODI & T20 teams feed into Test; no problem with that but there needs to be a recognition of when the conditions aren’t right for it. Something the current team need to learn quickly!

JW

DavSA,

You make a very good point about the Morkel / Philander combination. Having watched them so far this summer I think they are as good an opening bowling pair in Test cricket nowadays – both offering a different challenge but working perfectly in tandem (height & pace of Morkel vs swing & slower pace of Philander).

They seem to be a perfect foil for each other, especially in English conditions unfortunately for us.

JW

Hi Giri,

You make some good points, but surely Stokes at 6 and Moeen at 7 would suggest the set-up isn’t that they have to score runs every game? There are 5 blokes ahead of them who you hope would score runs…

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t half the game of cricket hoping / expecting your batsmen score runs? The other half being hoping / expecting your bowlers to take wickets. It’s a simply game, when you take it to the basics 😉

JW

Replying to all above as well, that average takes into account domestic T20 as well. It’s a much healthier (still lower than ideal) 42 or so in the longer format of the game. Comparisons with Finch aren’t really appropriate in this case.

Whilst it’s difficult to read too much into stats and they can always be manipulated to suit your needs, most of his career has been spent in Durham which is known for being a bowlers ground throughout the season.

From those more knowledgeable than me, what has stood out for Stoneman is the amount of time he seems to have at the crease. Hopefully this translates well into tests.

JW

Thanks Nudge. Distressingly that looks like a pretty good team, especially on home soil. Renshaw seems to have been a pretty good find for you guys, and Khawaja / Smith are strong coming in at 3/4.

I haven’t seen too much of either Handscomb or Cartwright so no idea how they play; are they more dashers, solid players, or in the middle?

Again, the bowling speaks for itself. With all on form and fitness permitting they will be a great test for England’s batting this winter – hopefully one they don’t fail too badly!

JW

Ronan,

Agreed, that lack of stability has to be a big factor. I would be interested as well to see how many top 3 combinations there have been since Strauss & Trott left (including Trotts attempted comeback).

Stoneman is a dasher, but I think he deserves a chance if we change the line up. Jennings to 3 potentially and Stoneman up top with Cook? Unfortunately I think Ballance has had his chances, and that technique will just get exposed time and time again.

The problem with having a second grafting opener is the pressure it puts on Cook to keep the scoreboard ticket – something we saw when Robson was struggling for runs and form. If we’re also keeping Ballance at 3 then that is a very stodgy top order, and we all know how much selectors now love a dasher at the top of the order (I blame your boys and Warner’s success at home!).

JW

I’m a fan of his as well Nudge, wouldn’t complain at all if he’s been put in. Don’t think he did too well for the Lions earlier in the summer but wouldn’t want to tag him with only that performance to go on.

I think it’s positive that there are a number of good young players in the County Champs currently, scoring runs in the long format and not just the T20. Hopefully these guys can get their chance over the next year or few and keep scoring runs – don’t want a Duckett or Robson where they struggle to translate this form to Test.

JW

BG,

Can’t argue with your logic at all. Root at 3 is fine, I agree with Bairstow being a 5 especially if freed of the responsibility with the gloves. I might be banging the drum slightly but I think bring in Clarke and Westley (or others) for Ballance and Dawson – we don’t need the second spinning all rounder in Aus and need to shore up the batting. Which would make:

Cook
Jennings / Hameed
Root
Westley
Clarke
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Suddenly looks a lot better team IMO.

What are the selection dilemmas facing Aus before the Ashes? Ignoring the pay dispute, how are you guys shaping up? I confess to not following too much domestic / international Aus cricket until Ashes time.

JW

Hi Ronan,

Pretty accurate summation if you ask me! Sadly it looks like it works for Aus more frequently than it does for us…

More worrying is the nature of collapses when chasing a high fourth innings total – no thought of batting time, wearing the opposition down, etc etc. It appears once a wicket or two fall, we go “Ah who cares” and throw the rest away. Is this an unintended effect of T20 now that batsmen don’t value their wicket as highly as they used to & still should?

I worry if our batting doesn’t change between now and the Ashes. Your comments on how the Aussies pace attack will be looking forward to it are absolutely spot on – Ballance has a weakness which they will exploit, Jennings needs to overcome his before before roasted with left-arm quicks, and we need more solidity.

Sadly I can see a 3-1 or 4-1 series if nothing gets addressed.

JW

Hi BG,

As much as I love the attacking nature of that batting line up, I have to disagree with it. All the talk here after this latest debacle is how England play too many all-rounders and need another proper batsman in the line up; which I don’t disagree with at all.

Root at 3 exposes him too early for my liking (although there isn’t much difference between 3 and 4 currently!). Bairstow isn’t a test 4 IMO, and Buttler is too high at 5 if he even plays.

I would really to see players like Tom Westley (batted 3 for the Lions against SA, scored a ton) and Joe Clarke given a chance – both in good nick at County level and good players. Other younger options have been mentioned above and I’m not against blooding them, I think we need to have a focussed approach – if we’re blooding players then we need to do it now so they can have the remaining tests against SA before an away Ashes series.

If it goes ahead.

Gordon,

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but need to point out that Ballance was recalled on the back of an average over 100 in the County Champs so far this year. I still agree that he’s more of a mates pick from Root and that until his glaring technical issue gets sorted out he is fodder in the winter; but it’s unfair to say there was no justification for his recall.

Unfortunately I see him being one who is dominant in the county game but the better quality of bowling in Tests exposes his shortcomings.

JW

Hi Giri,

Speaking from England I can guarantee you that we aren’t thinking about the Ashes right now. After an excellent Champions Trophy with a great final and now a monster Test series starting against SA, nobody here is mentioning or thinking of winter travels yet.

JW

Thanks Doc, I really enjoyed the article as a good summary so thanks.

You touched upon the rolling maul – having been such a big talking point for both teams in the build up to the match, it was interesting to see neither able to get it working well. What do you think was the reason for this? Do you see it changing for the 2nd test? Or is it simply not going to be the weapon it was talked about before the series…

JW

Doc,

A fair summary of the game I feel, although possibly slightly harsh on the Lions in some areas as already highlighted.

I feel the main differences between the teams can be condensed into two areas:

1. Forward dominance. Clearly won by the ABs, highlighted by the number of turnovers won, and the inability of Lions pack to make much of an impact in the game.

2. Clinical finishing. As you mentioned, the Lions had their breaks and chances but couldn’t finish them. The ABs had 3 opportunities and scored 3, ruthless. That is what you would expect from World Champions and an area which the Lions need to improve on if they are to score a win this series.

Overall, slightly disappointed as a NH fan with the result and the lack of punch from the Lions pack. The ABs were good value for the win, but this sets the series up nicely I feel; if the Lions lacked back-line cutting edge then I would be worried for our prospects.

Looking forward to next Saturday already!

JW

Pretty unbalanced piece of reporting, shame as I would have expected better.

Straw poll – did anyone find the sin-binning “controversial” as described?! Whilst I admit to hailing from the NH, my mates and I were discussing whether it was a yellow or red rather than yellow or just penalty. (Before it gets jumped on, we agreed that yellow was the right call).

JW

Digger / Nick,

Would genuinely be interested to see where you rank AWJ in terms of the Lions lock options? If you ask me, a starting duo of Itoje and Kruis would be formidable, especially given the Saracens line-out connection if George starts as well. However, would Itoje provide more of an impact from the bench? And where does that leave Lawes? It seems to me that AWJ either starts or isn’t in the match 23 – Lawes / Henderson offer more off the bench in terms of impact. You guys definitely know more than me on this topic though – thoughts?

Heard it mentioned somewhere that the tour is starting to shape up nicely with players making their case to be included rather than being picked because others are out of form – a nice problem for Gatland to have!

JW

Stainless,

Forgive the cynic in me, but are these the same marginal infringements which a certain Mr McCaw made a career out of? I’m not for a second taking away from how great a player he was – part of being such a great player is reading the refs and knowing what you can / can’t get away with. Is this not the same fine line which the Lions managed to stay the right side of this weekend? (Whether by luck or intentionally!)

JW