The Roar
The Roar

kingplaymaker

Roar Guru

Joined August 2009

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Also, there are enormous numbers of rugby league players with part rugby backgrounds as teenagers but who chose league who could quickly and massively strengthen Super teams…..in fact surely the NRL is a massive stock of players of good Super rugby standard who could transform weaker Super teams?

The easy fix for Super Rugby: Let more Kiwis play

Good post-truth statement.

Eddie Jones to stand down as England coach after World Cup tilt

This All Blacks team are quite beatable.

You choose:

1) The biggest and most powerful pack possible. When reasonably coached, South Africa have shown the ABs forwards do not like pure size and power in abundance.

2) A high quality attacking backline. Forwards will not be enough: you need to score tries.

3) A perfect goal-kicker, because every point counts in a match which would always be tight.

If any Wallabies coach had realised this recently, there might have been some more victories recently. Instead:

1) Paper weight packs are chosen.

2) Dubious selection means the best attacking backlines possible are nto chosen despite great wealth of attacking talent.

3) Imperfect goal-kickers are chosen.

Rugby’s a simple game sometimes.

This plan to beat the All Blacks is a little old-school but tell me I'm wrong

Utterly wrong.

The GIteau Law ONLY exists for Genia and he is the single beneficial result of it, but it is crazy to have a law like this for one player.

It would instead be better to persuade Genia to return to Australia!

Absolute MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!

Which players could have made a difference for their countries under the 'Giteau Law'

Kerevi may have developed more at Brisbane City. Basically Sautia did a lot worse under Graham than Mckenzie. There’s a link.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

True, and even then the system has produced Lealiifano as an outstanding kicker who is out of contention in freak circumstances.

The fact that a coach leave out swathes of talent, puts them in the wrong positions and combinations with odd gameplans, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have plenty of talent to choose from.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Jones’ backline is comically inept in attack. The forwards do everything, the backs nothing.

Comparing Youngs to Genia is like comparing a goldfish to a shark. Youngs is only decent behind an utterly dominant pack while Genia does extraordinary things behind a pack normally going backwards.

JJ worthless except for intercepts. Kuridrani head and shoulders above as an attacking player and he is no Kerevi, who in turn is no Folau.

Folau isn’t a fullback, so comparing him to Brown doesn’t make much sense. DHP isn’t the best as a fullback, but he’s way better than Brown, and better than DHP is JOC, and above him Beale.

England’s backs are as bad as their forwards are good.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Akari: Timani’s another interesting example of bad super coaching holding a player back. Appallingly coached until Tony Mcgahan got hold of him. He should have been playing for the Wallabies years ago. When there’s bad franchise coaching, the national coach has to step in and operate on the talented players himself.

Bakkies yes he is, because he is an exile imposed by Link and continued by Cheika. If Cheika told him he could come back and be considered he would be back after this season.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

I think any reasonable coach could have made the final with that route and the talent he had access too. White is decent but not outstanding.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

As it happens I think Genia should be made to choose between coming back to Australia or earning massively in France: basically the Giteau rule only exists for him now.

Cheika is not a bad coach. I never said that. Graham is a bad coach, in fact a terrible coach. Cheika is a good coach at Super level but doesn’t seem up to the top level at international level. I think he could develop some players more than the worst Super coaches.

Cooper’s chaotic in many ways but I think his upsides make up for it.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

You’re the one who’s sounding strange now….Sautia is a capped Wallaby who is recognised as an outstanding, but has been coached by the most disastrous coach in Richard Graham who seems to have damaged him significantly.

You seem rather defensive yourself: you don’t seem to recognise someone’s right to think a player is talented and badly coached.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Yes stillmissit, Genia, Cooper, Sautia, Koroibete, Kerevi, Folau, JOC, Beale, Kuridrani, DHP are talentless and useless according to you I suppose.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Beale is if Cheika wants to put him at fullback.
Sautia has been appallingly coached at the Reds and Cheika could take him and develop him.
Koroibete hasn’t even started yet. I’m talking about his raw talent.
Folau isn’t still learning. He’s just outrageously out of position. He is a centre or a wing.
JOC is eligible if Cheika chooses to recall him.
Genia is not part time. He’s missed two matches and has been the dominant 9 this year.
Cooper is the most creative 10 in the world.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Harry please look at the detail of what I wrote closely. I was not talking about the performance of the team, which is to a substantial degree determined by coaching, but at the natural talent of the players involved.

I also said that England had more good forwards, another point you would note if you had looked carefully.

But that doesn’t mean all the England forwards are better. Australia has four 7s who are better than any of England’s, Kepu is better than any English prop in his position, TPN better than Hartley, while Timani if well coached would be as good as the English 6s and even 8s. Overall England has more good forwards, but not to a man.

But in the backs no English back would make the Australian backline or even 30 man squad aside from the injured Tuilagi.

Overall therefore the Australian team has more talent available and a more even spread of talent between backs and forwards.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Easy route to the RWC final, having no decent team to beat on the way and really being beaten by Italy.

If a coach is failing so badly you should discard him. Try a foreign coach as England are doing successfully or a good young Australian coach from Europe.

Kerevi is very good, and it’s also very early in his career, and he’s hardly being well-coached by Cheika!

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Neil Back the list of backs I gave are all more talented in their positions than any available to Jones except the injured Tuilagi. He also has plenty of forwards who are as good as England’s, although England does have more high quality forwards.

Overall the teams are relatively matched in playing talent but Australia are overall superior, and this is a new development. If Jones were coaching the Wallabies against Jones’ England, the Wallabies would win.

Genia, Cooper, Koroibete/Sautia, Kerevi, Folau, JOC, Beale would be the most naturally talented backline in the world.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

mania firstly you’re right that big is not enough. My point is not that Folau are Kerevi are good just because they’re big: it’s because they’re big AND good.

Mania there are many coaches who have done well with lesser national and club sides in the world.

The point is that Cheika at the moment doesn’t seem good enough so something else should be tried.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Being whitewashed by both England and the All Blacks is in fact a new low.

Not only that but Cheika has better playing stocks to choose from than have been available for over a decade, probably brought out by the fifth Super team and the national competition.

In the backs Cheika has real talent in Genia, Cooper, Beale, JOC, Folau, Sautia, Kerevi, Koroibete and good players in Naivalu and Kuridrani. Despite all this talent, Cheika somehow manages to select the mediocre Rob Horne and make him vice-captain, which has to be one of the maddest selections ever seen.

A few years ago there were hardly any large backs and I remember the phrase ‘Honey I shrank the backline’ being used. Now there are several large, good backs available.

In the forwards too there are large and good quality forwards available, although they are hardly selected.

Indeed, every match the Wallabies’ pack is battered by a larger pack effectively deciding the losses, and still the powerful forwards who might stop this are left out or only one chosen at a time.

Naturally the bizarre and disastrous two openside policy makes this even worse.

With regard to Pocock, the idea of paying him this much money is crazy given the incredible luxury of options in the position. Hooper, Mcmahon and Gill are pretty much the same level as Pocock so spending an especially large sum on one player in the team’s strongest position is deeply odd.

Folau cannot attack effectively unless he plays centre or wing all the time. He is flagged up the moment he moves in from fullback and cannot appear in broken play or move around the midfield continually. As a fullback, he has never been fast enough and so has been shutdown. What’s truly odd is that only Cheika ever conceived of him as a fullback and simply on the basis of his taking of the high ball: it never seemed to occur to him that the position might not suit him otherwise. It’s yet unknown whether he would be a better centre or wing: probably centre which is where he would have been moved from wing a few years ago, because slightly less pace is needed, but it’s hard to know given that he is continually put at full-back…….

I think soon the idea that Cheika is the best option for the Wallabies and needs to be given limitless time needs to be challenged.

4-0 against England and 3-0 against the All Blacks is unacceptable with the significant talent at his disposal.

England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika

Maybe, but virtually all combinations and teams suggested by the last three posters have appeared in some form and failed.

Eddie Jones has the first and last laugh on the 2016 Wallabies

He has never had PHYSICAL impact. Again you miss the point. Even when his running it at its best, it’s not power but speed and elusiveness that he brings. And he hasn’t been at his best for a long time.

Eddie Jones has the first and last laugh on the 2016 Wallabies

But richard you’ll notice that the losses here and too England a few years ago were right at the end of dominant seasons………………………………………………..

Eddie Jones has the first and last laugh on the 2016 Wallabies

No 1 under a good coach.

Eddie Jones has the first and last laugh on the 2016 Wallabies

Strauli’s Boks are no match for Coetzee’s in badness, nor Meyer’s given that Meyer had feeble opposition to beat aside from the All Blacks and Wallabies in the beginning. Strauli’s team were around in a period with a good All Blacks, Wallabies and England and even a reasonable France.

France and England for the last two RWC cycles were utterly abysmal, and most of the time they’re playing second raters in the 6N.

Smith has a had a nice ride in the past 5 years, against some weak teams.

Anyway, as I said he can show his wares against Jones’ England if he’s so great.

Eddie Jones has the first and last laugh on the 2016 Wallabies

Looks like your logical resources have expired.

Ok well done to New Zealand for beating the mighty Meyer Springboks, virtually the worst team in modern South African history until Coetzee’s Springboks, or indeed the comically bad English and French teams, almost the worst in modern history, or indeed Cheika’s crazy Wallabies, with up to three 7s on the field at one time, the best centre in the world at fullback, whole swathes of attacking talent left out in favour of Rob Horne, the feeblest forwards possible…..great achievement. No really.

Eddie Jones has the first and last laugh on the 2016 Wallabies

So Meyer’s South Africa were good? Or Coetzee’s? Or Mckenzie’s Wallabies? Or Lancaster’s England? Or Saint-Andre’s France? Really???

Eddie Jones has the first and last laugh on the 2016 Wallabies