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LBJ

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Joined July 2019

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Some, not many – and decreasing.

Waratahs coaching speculation tells us the NSWRU board is as mad as we feared

I didn’t mean to – how so?

Waratahs coaching speculation tells us the NSWRU board is as mad as we feared

Not a heck of a lot of kids START playing rugby at school – they’ve usually been playing at mini’s and Juniors before they get there.
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Mini and Junior programs – are generally administered by the SS Clubs junior arms with the support of NSWRU. I recon they can do a better job, but they are very cost constrained.
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The private schools do an amazing job of coaching rugby talent – especially at the A’s/ first grade level – its very competitive at some schools, with most employing professional coaching staff.
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After finishing school, they come back to the clubs and subbies.
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So yes, NSW and the SS clubs have their fingerprints are all over the players – to various degrees clearly.

Waratahs coaching speculation tells us the NSWRU board is as mad as we feared

Haha – of course not, Geoff would never say something positive about SS!
But that didn’t prevent him from listing a number of players who have gone professional directly from SS – most recently a tranche to the MLR.

Waratahs coaching speculation tells us the NSWRU board is as mad as we feared

Really? I’m being pretty specific. Focus on the actual problem (retention), and make sure we don’t disrupt the current production of talent from NSW.
And yes, its possible players are not attracted to the current coaching team…

Waratahs coaching speculation tells us the NSWRU board is as mad as we feared

Its about the baby and the bathwater – if we asked the NSW RU to be myopically focussed on the performance of the Waratahs – the shortest route would be to joint SR Aotearoa. That would have attracted finance, talent and audience. Thankfully they wanted to deliver the best outcome for Aussie rugby – ensuring 5 teams were reinstated.
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Accountability should be specific and achievable:
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– Development is good – evidenced by Geoff’s list of 152 + SR AU players + 44 RWC’19 players from Shute Shield – How do we ensure this is maintained and enhanced. What can other states learn and apply from this success?
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– Retention at Waratahs is poor – what do we do about that (specifically). Has something gone wrong here? Is it purely $? Culture? Vision? Will directorship change make a difference? What are the accountabilities of the people in charge? Would a new coach make a difference?

Waratahs coaching speculation tells us the NSWRU board is as mad as we feared

In the field of Journalism, you’re a Columnist Brett – and in my opinion, a very good one.
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Nevertheless, I remain frustrated at the assumption that the coach is blameless for the performance, but the board is nefarious in its intent.
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As Geoff, unintentionally, pointed out yesterday – NSWRU are producing, along with QLD, the vast majority of high performance talent in Australian rugby. However much of it is being poached by other super rugby franchises and offshore teams. In my view this is a symbol of the success of the game globally and in Aus. – and more power to those other teams…
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But should NSW not be applauded for producing that much talent in the first place?
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The issue here is clearly retention in the professional team, the Waratahs. And lets have some caution on what we wish for here, because there are indeed some undesirable potential solutions to that problem…

Waratahs coaching speculation tells us the NSWRU board is as mad as we feared

Your narrative – often repeated, and loudly applauded on this forum – is that NSWRU are the root of all evil in Aus rugby. And yet the data you use quite obviously shows that they and QLD continue to be the only ones keeping the game alive in this country.
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Why are you so keen to throw stones at them and any journalist who doesn’t agree with you?
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As much as I like the Rebels, it seems that Victoria are the poorest contributors to the game’s general health and the lowest hanging fruit in terms of its potential – as you live in Melbourne, why is there never an insight to that issue?

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

What structure do you suggest?

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

Thanks Geoff,
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I didn’t agree with Penny’s appointment – I din’t think it was a good decision to invest years in developing a coach who is not from NSW/ AUS or our development pathway (Shute Shield/ 7’s/ Aus U20’s) – but he is here now, he seems like a good, honest fella, and he should be given ‘some’ time to develop himself and the team.
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That said, those motherhood statements simply don’t (and shouldnt) cut it. There must be something taniglble – conceding 3 points and scoring 0 against 14 men over the last 15 minutes at home, against the Force – thats simply terrible fitness and structure – which is coaching.
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If he loses the next 2 games – what possible defence can he have that he should be allowed to keep going? ‘Not his fault’ simply isnt good enough.
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Which brings us to NSWRU player development.
– What your list clearly shows us (thanks Jeznez) is NSWRU is actually doing a terrific job in developing professional players – as are QLDRU. Those two provinces remain the only menaingful source of player development in Australia.
– What your list also shows us, is that VIC and WA and ACT are not pulling their weight – and not just at the Professional level – but also at the club and school level developing players who can aspire and put pressure on the incumbents. If NSW didnt have to fill the gaps from those three provinces – then we would have an extremely strong and competitive team.
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You’ve accused the journalists of being lazy – but with respect, how do you explain this obvious omission?

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

Sorry Geoff, I desperately hope that’s NOT Rennies plan. Aussies being lectured by a kiwi on why it’s important to play for the Wallabies?!
No wonder we couldn’t get past the Argies…we were out-passioned

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

Mate, yuo know youre stuff.
The point is that NSW, Qld are still producing the bulk of talent.
The issue is retention.

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

That’s a right RA simply don’t have.
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NSWRU are accountable to the clubs of NSW.
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If however, such a push came to bear, NSWRU might decide to take up the offer of Super Rugby Aoterra – attracting big $ and the best players to play in the best provincial competition. Qld, would I’m sure be forced to be interested in doing thesame in that case.
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Thankfully, the boards of both NSWRU and the Shute Shield clubs agreedto do what was best for the other regions of rugby in Aus and stay with AU as a group.

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

Sorry Geoff, that last part is a poor comment – the Shute Shield’s position has been very much debated, properly addressed and is resolved – the fact is simply that you don’t like the solution.

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

So NSWRU develop more players in Super Rugby than any other state, they develop more players than any other state on that list of 150 exports and to you that means they are bad at developing players?!
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Then, after 5 years of NRC, NSW have the worst results in 150 years of rugby – and you think what we need is “more NRC?!” —man!

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

I don’t understand that concept – Rennie primarilly here for the money too? I’m sure he cares deeply about his craft etc, but he didn’t grow up wanting to be or coach the Wallabies…

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

WF were terrific and thoroughly deserved the win.
Agree with Anstee as MOTM – ironcally though (given the article) as he is from Eastwood club in Sydney.

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

Interesting list Geoff,
A couple of quick questions if you have time, as I’m curious to size the actual problem, mainly relating to which states/ regions are not ‘pulling their weight’ in terms of player development.
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1. I’m curious to know how many of that list are ‘from NSW’ (played in NSW, likely Shute Shield, before being selected for professional duties) in the first place – I’d guess quite a few?
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2. To properly size the drain from NSW, do you know how many players in Super Rugby AU are ‘from NSW’? Eg. I know Ainstee is from Eastwood
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3. Also, if not the team’s performance, what should the coach be accountable for? Is there any level of team performance that equates to unacceptable coaching? Or does Penny have a free pass?
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Wonderful to see the Force get up on the weekend – I suspect that was the headline in WA.

The Wrap: 153 reasons why Waratahs coach Rob Penney must be left alone

Its unfortunate we have to feel the impact of Hooper’s (and Simmons) absence to really see their value. I guess this is why coaches value them so much. Clearly the tahs are 30+ points worse-off without their leadership and capability.

It's tough to see Tahs struggle: Michael Hooper

I can’t find the ‘down-vote’ button…
– what a strange, vitriolic comment

It's tough to see Tahs struggle: Michael Hooper

Yes, I refuse to accept that the potential of the best in NSW is 102 -17. and I hope to god that Penney does too.

Rob Penney threw down the gauntlet and NSW Rugby are mad if they take it

There’s a guy in my area who’s opinion I respect who says precisely the same thing – and I certainly hope you’re both right. The harsh truth though, is we simply don’t have the capacity to wait 2 more years for some wins…

Rob Penney threw down the gauntlet and NSW Rugby are mad if they take it

Umm, where DO you get your material?!…No, I’m assuming he’s asked the right questions, been given answers he’s satisfied with and presented a plan that the board is happy with and approved. I’m guessing something around youth/ development/ cost-effective.
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Undoubtedly the ground has shifted under everyone’s feet.
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Regardless of the plan he presented though, the performances so far in his second season are entirely unacceptable, and the coach surely must be accountable – not alone, but certainly the coach.
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It would be irresponsible to pretend that everything is going well – its not.

Rob Penney threw down the gauntlet and NSW Rugby are mad if they take it

Hmm, I specifically said I’d hate to see him thrown under the bus. So as far as words in other people’s mouths…
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But if you’re suggesting he has zero input into the roster and its costs, and the implication of x vs y – well then yes, that smacks of a lack of accountability – which is the topic, yes?
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The only thing I’m keen on, is a healthy and successful Rugby community in Sydney and NSW and beyond (to the extent I have any insight into that).

Rob Penney threw down the gauntlet and NSW Rugby are mad if they take it

Is that any different to any other franchise?

Rob Penney threw down the gauntlet and NSW Rugby are mad if they take it