The Roar
The Roar

Liam Quinn

Roar Rookie

Joined March 2011

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Roar Rookie
Roar Rookie

Why David Kopay's legacy matters

David Kopay is not a name common to most sports fans. It should be. Kopay was an NFL running back for five different teams – San Francisco 49ers, Detroit Lions, Washington Redskins, New Orleans Saints and Green Bay Packers – for nine seasons between 1964 and 1972.

NFL
 
2011

Ben Gordon has possibly the most contract in the NBA – outside of Baron Davis. If the Cavs traded for Gordon, they would owe almost 30 million to two players well past their best over the next season. Plus they have some decent young players on the bench. Getting Gordon eats up cap space, and slows down development of younger players. Also, have you seen the 2012 Draft Class? Stacked. If the Cavs had a top 5 pick in that, plus Irving and Thompson from this season, they would have a great young core to build around. Ideally they would get Harrison Barnes, but they’ll probably need the first pick for that.

Hamilton doesn’t fit as a starter for the Sixers, maybe as a role player, but sadly for Rip that’s all he should be in a team with Evan Turner on the squad. Turner was brilliant in college before his injury, and has improved with his limited minutes since. The Sixers should focus on keeping Young, then they could build a team around Holiday, Turner, Young, Speights and Monta Ellis (providing he gets traded for Iggy) Starting 5 of Hawes or Speights, Brand, Young, Monta, Holiday with Williams and Turner coming off the bench for 20 plus minutes per. A decent lineup in the East.

NBA 2011 free agency: Central Division

The Warriors seem pretty committed to trading Monta – for Iggy judging from all reports, safe to say that Curry is going nowhere. Paul will probably end up a Knick, depending on how/if the new CBA outlines it.

Memphis was really pushing a trade of Gay to the Cavs before the draft, but didn’t get it done, so he is clearly surplus to requirements. Gay was the star, Randolph stepped up and became that star. If they could flip Gay and get a top level PG in return – and keep Gasol – they’ll definitely be a strong team out West.

Getting Kahwi Leonard was huge for the Spurs, capable of putting up very good numbers right away. Can run, play defense and can put up points on offense. Needs to improve his jumpshot, but an immediate upgrade over Jefferson.

Dallas will have to do an amazing job, if there were to keep all their free agents. They’re almost bound to lose one or two. JJ already said he would be open to playing in LA (didn’t specify Lakers or Clippers) and Chandler will be offered massive money from plenty of teams. They might have to look at trading Beabouis if they want to keep a similar team in place.

Of course none of this matters at the moment, as the NBA season is in real danger of not going ahead.

NBA 2011 free agency: Southwest Division

some sections of the afl fan base seem to be stuck in “the past.”

the game has changed dramatically when compared to times gone by – which isn’t a bad thing by the way – and saying “oh but its better than it used to be” doesn’t excuse subpar conditions for todays AFL.

Is ANZ Stadium's suface unsafe for AFL players?

Just personally think that the Cats will really want to bury the Bombers. Some games they might ease up a little late if there were set for the win, but think they’ll be gunning for a big win. But with that being said, Essendon could come out and win now!

The North/Saints should be a pretty close one, along with Collingwood vs Hawthorn, they could be two great games on Sunday.

AFL Round 15 match-by-match preview

Maybe I’m being pedantic, but Carmelo didn’t ask to leave to chase cash. He wanted to go to the Knicks because he’s from Brooklyn, and played for Syracuse in College. If anything, he was leaving a better team to go to a worse team.

There are plenty of players who stay loyal to their teams, sometimes foregoing team success. Kevin Garnett was the most recent example of this, he stayed at the T’Wolves for years before the franchise decided to move on without him. He never left, and never complained.

So sure, there are players who chase money in the NBA, but it’s best not to paint all the players with the same brush.

Free agency where money is thicker than blood

I actually think he’s pretty spot on with the Blues, to give them an A so far would be a bit premature. There’s no doubt that Carlton have played above expectations so far this year, but as said, they haven’t quite taken the next step and taken a big scalp. If they could’ve knocked off Collingwood or Geelong, then they would definitely be up there, but at the moment they’re still a step off the pace.

Also, as much as they’ve improved, they were a finals side before this year. So it’s not as significant an improvement as West Coast (who received an A) coming from the league’s doldrums. B seems to be one the money.

The Roar's mid-season AFL report card

You’re the only person using college as a comparison, I know that LeBron never played College, but i was simply saying if you look at the hype surrounding the players when they came into to the league, it was very similar. I was reiterate, they both put up very strong numbers when they joined the NBA, and both were capable of amazing things on the court. You can keep talking about the difference between High School and the ABA, but I’m simply comparing their NBA CAREERS! And no Moses isn’t a better comparison, he was a CENTRE, so you cannot compare LeBron or Dr J to a centre.

Nobody thought highly of the Cavs? So I guess making them Championship favourites, and having the side win over 60 games in back-to-back seasons isn’t that big a deal. It’s incredibly easy for you to make statements about what people think when we’re looking back at it, I’ve clearly just focused on the statistics from that time, and the fact the they were considered favourites by most to win the Championship.

Jordan might not have won without Pippen, but again you’re using hypotheticals and opinion. Fact is that with Jordan they won, without him they didn’t. If you disagree look at the history books.

Kareem had been League MVP before 1980, and he still hadnt won a championship. Again, saying that “he sportswriters getting carried away” was the reason Magic won his FInals MVP, is just your opinion. Statistically he played incredibly well, and just imagine they hype around a Rookie today if they played out of position and put up 42, 15 and 7.

I think it’s a sign of just how good LeBron is/will be that we compare him to these great players before his career has even finished. But to say that he is better than them is a little premature.

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

Amazingly similar NBA career paths. Both came into the league riding a huge amount of hype, put up huge numbers almost instantly, and were able to do things on the court that were a sight to behold.

Well, you’re entitled to have your opinion and say that Erving didn’t need a star, but history shows that he did. Fact. And he was one of the best players to never win a title, but obviously with that comes the sort of questions about why he couldn’t.

Also, if you look at it, LeBron’s Cavs teams were thought to be pretty good – league’s best record, championship favourites – before choking in the playoffs…so i’d say that was another similarity.

Yes the Knicks teams of the 90s were great, and Jordan had to really perform to get passed them, but in the end, he did. And then went on to win championships. Pippen didn’t. Pippen’s a great player, but he couldn’t lead his team passed the Knicks, whereas Jordan could, regardless of how tough it was.

Hmm, the beginning of Magic’s career? I guess Magic winning Finals MVP in his Rookie season, and carrying the Lakers in the decisive game six when Kareem was injured doesn’t count in your book. Magic in Game 6 – 42 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists. Another fact is that Kareem never won an NBA title with the Lakers before Magic showed up, he was the league’s best scorer but couldn’t win. Magic carried the Lakers in Game 6 – when he played as a Centre – so yeah, I’d say it was his team from pretty early on.

I’d actually say that LeBron is more Magic than Michael, due to his size and overall statistical spread. He runs the point at times, and is often compared to Magic by people much higher up the NBA writers tree than us. Kobe is the Jordan mould, not LeBron.

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

Never once said that Dr J entered the league straight from College, it’s pretty well known that he played for the Squires and Nets in the ABA. However, the comparison between College for Dr J and High School for LeBron is simply because it was the last time the players competed without being professional players. And you’ll find that at UMASS, Erving averaged 35 points and 20 rebounds per – and was one of only 5 players to do so.

Also I dont see how you can point out statistical faults as your main concern, and then go on to use hypotheticals, such as “would’ve won an NBA title much sooner than ’83 ” as an argument. Sure they had potential to, but the fact is they didn’t.

No one is arguing that Pippen did not play well in the 1994 season – he had a great season in fact – yet the simple matter is that with Jordan leading the side they won six championships, with Pippen leading the team they lost in the Second Round. And to say that tough Knicks team, that was the same team the Bulls were beating on the way to their first three-peat. If anything that further proves my point.

Sure Magic played on a great team, but if you look down the line, basically every great player has been involved with a great team. Russel’s Celtics – stacked. Bird’s Celtics – Stacked. Jordan’s Bulls – Great. Magic’s Lakers – Stacked. Isiah’s Pistons – Stacked. Ewing’s Knicks – Great team. And saying that it “was Kareem’s team until at least ’85” is complete hearsay and opinion. The stats show that Magic Johnson is one of the most successful players in history, you cannot argue with that.

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

Earl Monroe was 27 when he went to the Knicks, Frazier was 26 and admittedly Willis was 29 when they joined up. Hardly at the end of their careers.

Oscar and Dr J were both 32 when they won a championship, so admittedly they were older, but Dr J joined the Sixers when he was 26. So again, pretty much right on his prime.

I think LeBron was actually treated pretty badly – most of it came from “The Decision” – but he was hardly the first superstar to team up with another star in their “prime.”

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

I’d argue that there are plenty of examples of players joining up. Oscar joining Kareem at the Bucks, Dr J joining Moses Malone are two definite examples. Could even say that “Pearl” Monroe getting traded to the Knicks, teaming up with Walk Frazier and Willis Reed.

LeBron was a great talent – and an MVP – before joining Wade and Bosh in Miami.

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

Granted he would have to “surpass” certain players to be seen as the greatest, but other than Jordan, there are so many other sub-categories. Jordan stands alone – in my opinion – but other than that it becomes difficult, It becomes incredibly difficult to compare different positions.

Don’t think you can really count college stats when talking about the best NBA players, College would be a completely different ranking.

I don’t have a problem with Kareem at all, he’s a great player, but for mine he is behind Russell and Wilt. Russell takes the edge in mine simply because of not only his individual performance, but the dominance of his team during his era – especially considering he competed with Wilt. In the instance where both players are so close, Russell’s success gives his the lead.

As far as Bird goes, again I have absolutely no issue with Larry, he is definitely one of the greats of what was the NBA ‘s “Golden Era”. His rivalry with Magic and the Lakers was arguably one of the greatest ever NBA rivalries. It can’t be argued that Bird is brilliant, but I just don’t rate him above any of those 5. He would definitely fit in between 6-8 though.

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

tough to compare LeBron to players like Hakeem, Bill, WIlt, Kareem, West, Duncan etc, purely because they play different positions.

A few points though:

Kareem is not number 2 all time, definitely not the best big man of all time. Personally my 3 big-men of all time is
– Bill Russell
– WIlt
– Kareem

Saying Bill’s overrated, then going on to list his amazing achievements seems a bit contradictory. Bill wasn’t as dominate a scorer as some recent big men, but he played in an era when the big man’s role was very different. Scoring was not as high or as key a measure with Centre’s like it is today.

Also, if anything the fact that Oscar played in a league that has fewer statistics, only improve his standing.

My Top 5

5. Wilt
4. Russel
3. Oscar
2. Magic
1. Jordan

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

To give LeBron future credit to be better than every player in history, is one incredibly disrespectful to the players who set the path for LeBron, and 2 show that you’re just a blatant LeBron fan-boy.

I think LeBron is an amazing player, and have watched his career since his St Vincent/St Marys days, but at this point, he is not the best player in history. Saying otherwise is just hype.

Sorry about messing up the age – late night, not detailed enough reading.

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

Agree, Pippen is the only one he is clearly passed, and that’s nothing against Pippen who is a hall of famer in his own right.

It’s amazing how quickly some people forget the amazing achievements of players from previous era’s.

Not saying at all that LeBron isn’t a great player now, and that he won’t ever be comparable with some of these great names in future, but he isn’t now.

LeBron doesn't stack up against NBA greats

St Kilda have one good performance – against a severely undermanned Fremantle – and all of a sudden they’re a quality side again. What happened to all the people who were burying them two weeks ago?

Was Richmond's Darwin experiment a mistake?

Undoubtedly the Cavs were built around LeBron, but can you honestly say that any team that had LeBron would’ve done it differently? You have the greatest physical talent in the game, of course you are going to build your team around him.

LeBron James - most talented, but never Jordan

Easy to say in hindsight, if you go back and look at it, the Cavs were overwhelming favourites to beat the Celtics in the Conference Semi-Finals last year.

Again, I’m not saying at all that they were a better team than any of Jordan’s Bulls – they weren’t – but the easy comment to sit back now and say he had no support just is not true.

LeBron James - most talented, but never Jordan

I know that basketball is about the way a team plays together, but considering the Cavs had the league’s best record that season, they clearly had some idea how to play well together.

No one is doubting that the Bulls had some great production of their bench, but saying that the Cavs didn’t is an incredibly simplistic view.

LeBron James - most talented, but never Jordan

Cleveland’s supporting cast was nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Just look at their 2009-10 team.

Antwan Jamison -who has been an All-Star in his career – averaged 16 points and 8 boards
Mo Williams – 16 points and 5 assists

Plus Shaq, Variejo,Hickson, Delonte, and Gibson and its a decent core group of players, providing James led the way.

Starters not named LeBron averaged basically 60 points and 20 rebounds per game. Compare that to the Bulls this year, with starters averaging 49 points and 26 rebounds per game.

It’s easier to blame the rest of the Cavs rather than LeBron, but truth is they weren’t that bad.

LeBron James - most talented, but never Jordan

Nice Johnno, enjoyed it.

I think the big thing with Jordan – besides his amazing talents – is the way he really made Basketball a worldwide sport. He laid the track for all the LeBron’s, Kobe’s, Wade’s etc. Personally that’s why I think there will never be another Jordan, he on court performance could in theory be matched, but the effect he had off the court and on the sport as a whole, make him untouchable.

LeBron James - most talented, but never Jordan

Swampy, it would definitely be a short term stop for Jackson, but from what he’s said the last few days, he hasnt completely decided.

And as you said, absolutely no guarantees, but a lineup built around Carmelo, Amar’e and Paul (who in my opinion are all top 15 in the league) would be a scary prospect.

And yep, it’d be great for MSG, got courtside seats for a game a few years back, amazing!

New York Knicks: 2013 NBA champions?

Yep completely right, 40 years, sorry about the typo with that one!
Personally think that Free Agent is too big a risk, plus the Hornets will be looking to trade and get something, rather than seeing Paul walk for nothing!
Just quickly punching into the ESPN Trade Machine, it came up with this.

KNICKS TRADE: Billups, Douglas and Balkman
HORNETS TRADE: Chris Paul

Now I know that this trade would obviously change – adding in extra pieces, cash, etc – but it would be a viable option.

Douglas has proven that he has potential in the future, but I think the Knicks would rather lose him than Fields. Plus the knicks could try and draft a young point guard in this draft, which could cover Douglas’s loss. Walker improved this year, so he could improve from the extra time.

I’d have the Knicks making this trade this offseason, or during the season at the very latest. Definitely not waiting until 2012-13.

Agree with you gfunk, feel you gave up a lot for the Carmelo trade, but it had to be done in my opinion.

New York Knicks: 2013 NBA champions?

I’m sure Geelong wouldn’t be complaining when they count the gate takings from Friday’s 81+ thousands crowd.
It’s the same reason Collingwood play most of their games at the MCG – the opposing teams love the revenue! It’s not Collingwood’s fault that they’ve built the biggest fan base in the league.

Also, after next week, you’ll find that Collingwood will have played 2 of their first 4 home games at Etihad Stadium – including the season opener! Which I will remind you isn’t Collingwood’s home-ground.

In a perfect world that didn’t involve clubs and the league needing to make money to survive, I’m sure we’d see teams playing at Skilled Stadium, Arden Street, Punt Road, WIndy Hill, Victoria Park, etc. But when you take into account the fact that clubs and the league are a BUSINESS it makes sense to try and maximise their profit.

Collingwood have improved, but are still vulnerable

I may be in the minority here, but I would much rather go and see a game that showcased the immense talents of the players on the field, rather that see players “fighting”

Football will always be an incredibly physical sport, but I am glad that the days of players getting ‘taken out’ behind play are long gone.

The nostalgic desire for the past, when players would be targeted illegal by opponents just because of their skill, is idiotic to want to see return.

I’d rather have our current blend of toughness and skill, than a lot of “bash and crash”

and finally, if you want to question whether football needs to “harden up” take a look at the courage and guts shown by Alan Toovey last Friday night, what he did is much tougher than throwing a few punches or having a brawl.

Are we sanitising our game into extinction?