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Paul P. Mark

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Joined February 2018

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I perhaps should have included premiership droughts and finals droughts as a criteria. I ended up only using overall percentages, but such droughts are also quite telling. You may also be interested to have a look at my article about eras of dominance: https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/02/20/look-dominant-eras-vflafl-history/

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Well spotted. Not sure how Bombers and Cats ended up around the wrong way in that one – But the final standings were still calculated correctly.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Actually, I see what you mean now – it’s in the GF table. Well spotted. Not sure how Bombers and Cats ended up around the wrong way in that one – But the final standings were still calculated correctly.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

A lot of punters think the concept of relocating a club, changing its name and moving it to a different city, is a rather patronising concept. Many believe the struggling South were folded, Sydney were formed. Most players went up to Sydney (had no choice really) but regardless of how the AFL likes it to appear, is it really the same club?

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Yeah mate good pick up there were some seasons where no prelims were played. In fact, fairly recently, Clarko made a jibe about Collingwood having won some flags without having to win prelims along the way. Google: clarkson collingwood preliminary finals and you’ll see some news about it.

So the ‘prelims per season’ stats in that link I sent are not entirely accurate – I’d have to go through and exclude some years – but the prelim win% stats certainly are accurate.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Prelim stats: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19kxrN8rzqM1Ti8HRoc2oOddjLeJr1t5k/view

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

I think I very well may look at another one soon, using the same metrics but from 1990-onwards.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Overall finals win% and, as you mentioned, av. finishing position does address this somewhat, but I agree that a method that gives more weight to winning a PF over a EF or QF has merit.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Yes, I think I very well may look at another one soon, using the same metrics but from 1990-onwards.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Fair point, the more clubs in the comp, from a numbers game perspective, might make it more difficult to win a flag. But it is now the final eight and the Doggies won it from seventh spot for example. So more finals spots on offer may counter-balance it.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Hi Goalsonly, you mean include the pre-1897 VFA records? I think the historians are still working to verify some of the records. Not sure it will ever become part of the VFL/AFL though.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Hi Julieanne, I know the V/AFL officially lists them as the one club, but myself and many , many others just won’t buy it. In reality, South Melbourne became non-viable and folded, and the Sydney Swans were formed. Continuity was achieved because the players also went up to Sydney, but you couldn’t have expected all those die-hard South supporters, who used to walk, or catch a tram to home games every other week, to then start barracking for a Sydney-based entity. Lots did, but most didn’t.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Hi Thatsashame, all the data in the Premiership win rate is accurate – but I do see the first column goes 1,3,2 instead of 1,2,3 – but rest assured the clubs do appear in correct order and were calculated with the correct ranking points.

Ranking the most successful clubs in AFL/VFL history

Good points Qlder, very good points I must admit. I do think the Suns are great for the competition as opposed to GWS, whom I believe are destined to fail almost as soon as they end up on he lower rungs of the ladder after this run of relative success – but I will “expand” on that in another article soon.

Stewy Dew might be a great coach too. I want the Suns to succeed.

Comparing Gold Coast with University doesn't make for good reading for Suns fans

Perhaps I should’ve added a note to the table that grand final replays are effectively ignored (although the points for/against stats from them are not ignored)

A grand final replay could almost be viewed as extra time (a lot of it) with a very long break and the chance to replace any injured or poorly-performing players.

I am personally glad they have finally been canned, I think common sense prevailed.

Paul P Mark.

A look at the most dominant eras in VFL/AFL history

Hi Lao, thanks for the feedback but I actually didn’t write “in the midst of” but simply “during” the Great Depression. Collingwood won that epic fourth flag in 1930, two years into it.

A look at the most dominant eras in VFL/AFL history

Thanks for the feedback Matty. I was close to writing a bit on Hafey’s Tigers, especially because he is such a legendary coach. Looking at their sequence, they eventually went back-to-back but had some stumbles along the way including a fifth and sixth finish.

With quite a few of these eras, especially Geelong as I mentioned, IF you swap just one runner-up for a flag, the era goes from great to immortal because it not only adds a flag but also creates a succession of them.

But the key word there is “IF”. And you also don’t know if a club could have handled the extra pressure of shooting for true greatness. Even if Geelong had’ve beaten the Hawks in ’08, it doesn’t mean they would’ve still won in ’09. An off-season of back-slapping vs hunger for atonement.

Butterfly effect!

Paul.

A look at the most dominant eras in VFL/AFL history

I certainly believe the VFL and AFL should be considered the same competition. I suppose it is indeed relevant that the AFL-era is roughly when the salary cap was introduced and the league began to go fully professional and national, but it is officially the same competition since 1897 which has naturally evolved.

But I agree you do only have to look at State of Origin results from pre-AFL days to see that sides containing almost entirely WAFL or SANFL players regularly defeated the best of the VFL, at home at least.

Even Adelaide entering the League in 1991, and shell-shocking eventual premiers Hawthorn to the tune of 86 points at Football Park in round one, was an indication of how strong the SANFL was – that inaugural Crows side had only three players with any prior VFL/AFL experience. (Grantley Fielke, Bruce Lindner, and Tony McGuinness).

A look at the most dominant eras in VFL/AFL history

Good points Col and unknown to many. But you can only go by what the rules were at the time. All clubs knew what might happen in each circumstance.

I also find it most interesting that there have only been two seasons in which a grand final was not played (the first season in 1897 and also 1924 – and Essendon was declared the premier in both as per below, but they still must count.

In the inaugural season 1897, a round-robin finals series was contested with no grand final being played. Essendon was awarded the premiership and Geelong the runners-up.

Again in season 1924, an experimental round-robin finals series was contested with no grand final being played. Essendon was awarded the premiership and Richmond the runners-up.

A look at the most dominant eras in VFL/AFL history

We certainly won’t know just how good this current Richmond playing group is for a few more years. As for the Magpies of 1990, they certainly had some amazing players like Peter Daicos, Gavin Brown, etc. – there was something special about the team. Darren Milane being killed in a car crash the following year had a deep effect on many players and officials – certainly didn’t help their quest for another flag.

It’s interesting that the 1990 premiership marked the end of the ‘Colliwobbles’. The club even held a burial of a box containing who-knows what under the turf of Victoria Park. But since that day, Collingwood have actually continued their deplorable record in grand finals – losing three out of four, including two in a row to Brisbane in 2002-03.

A look at the most dominant eras in VFL/AFL history