Well look for team spirit he did a job for time smith and Warner were out I guess but dire decision maker and field setter . Even he got reckless swinging to be caught as planned by England when australia was 6 down for little with no composure in the first test in 19. A series that should have been won outright thats for sure. As I always said he was a great keeper who was missed behind stumps at periods due to horrific injuries but was slowing down in the last year on that front too

Hmm id disagree a little Jeff but also agree to some extent.. I dont think players like head or labs have been vilified off 24 hours . Try 12 test matches and a decline over 12 months let alone the two years before mate which is clearly evidenced in averages., where there averages have been 24 and 30 respectively this year (2024) and then really po0r in summer 28 and 25 over 5 tests matches . Thats 7 tests of dire shambles give or take an innings to bolster up the numbers on a home deck and a gutsy knock by labs in nz. I think one can give credit to a Joseph for example but also realize that cummins made 60 runs against him and carey made 64 against him let alone smith making 91* and bison and green made some good runs but labs and head flunked both innings for a combined total of 8 runs. I dont think its vilifying them for 24 hours more like 7 tests . I do notice you are right however about the villification of say smith and khawaja who have just had a lower start to 2024 but also had some tough conditions to open in in NZ for me as NZ openers failed too across both tests and Latham had great batting conditions second innings.

To be fair there are some on here are going tonto over 24 hours without considering even recent efforts or a good performance or the other side. I thought NZ were amazing in the second innings second test batting and Henry was incredible and tired and the debutant shows huge talent. Ravindra can really bat too and have nothing but credit for Williamson. NZ were a bit unlucky and one could argue it came down to fielding and Australia also got very lucky second test although Head was totally reckless yet again!

Yeah but the thing was you could bat at Gabba so it was head and labs who flunked yet again. Cummins made 60 odd, smith 91*, khawja 75 first innings , green 40, carey 65, . Labs and Head performed like donuts both innings

Paine cost us the outright ashes wins from DRS shambles (worst ever) to field settings to getting us to opening at the oval after two days of bowling a few days before that . He was a shocker there. Smith hazel cummins and labs carried Australia like champions and deserved to win outright in 19. That said I felt we didnt play as well and were lucky to get out with a draw in 2023 but cummins was great as usual. Tubby was great as was Steve waugh for me but we did have an amazing side too back then.

Id agree with this Sgt. Hes definitely coming off his sharp hand eye ball coordination and footwork prowess a bit post him turning 33 for me. The high ball stuff a few years ago didnt help him where archer got him body line and then Wagner got him a bit – he was incredible before that but he came back from it. We are talking about one of the worlds best batsmen so his averages after those periods became excellent instead of unbelievable . Its the tour of India, England and home Summer then NZ where we have seen a decline but especially this home summer series and NZ. I agree doesnt matter where he bats. All that said Labs and Head have struggled way more. And Smith will open for the first few tests and be selected for the entire series as could easily drop down to 3 , 4 or 5. He will be 35 going towards 36 so he’s another watch against India but Id be more concerned about the awful averages of Head and labuschagne since the English ashes series began last June. In the last 12 tests they have had dire averages. Warner seemed to establish it was ok to stay for two years with an average in the 20s let alone a one series average in England of 9 and stilll get picked and choose your retirement date as well.

Im not jumping on the openers failure quite yet. Kiwis failed at home opening by and large and had great/best conditions to bat in the second innings at Christchurch . No doubt smith and khawaja need to bat well in first 3 tests against India but they get Perth, Adelaide and Gabba to do it. Smith tends to bat well at MCG and SCG though overall in Aus unlike others. Hes not as happy facing the pink ball and has said it himself which will happen at Adelaide.

As for Head, Hes averaging the worst of the lot in 2024 ( 24) . Hes the big watch along with Labs really as they have had pour home series average on top of poor 2024 average.

Id say the bowlers carey and bison to be fair and cam green was incredible test 1 . Those bowlers know how to bat though thats for sure .

Khawaja has said he wants to play to 40 . Smith has indicated he doesnt want to tour much more . Id think family planning may beckon for him too. Just a hunch. He is OCD with cricket so doing both wouldn’t suit him. Hes indicated in press confs he won’t stay around too long. Id say England ashes 2025/26 he will retire as he won’t want to tour India 2026. Khawja is 38 this summer. He will need to bat well to go on to Sri Lanka and West Indies tours in 2025 and then face England at home. My bet is they will both be gone after that but its speculation. We might miss them though be careful what you wish for. Averages need to come up next summer for sure. Averaging 30 over last 4 tests is not good enough but they had reasonable averages over the summer compared to labs and head who are the real ones to analyze next in December.

geez he Steven waugh got Aus out of a lot of trouble many times when the chips were down qwetzen he was amazing when it mattered .

IF the Aussies were smart the acid tests and holy grails are time for renshaw and Bancroft Whiteman as a trio in England and India . Those two tours dont begin until 2026. Theres time. I doubt there will be much plan ahead though. To difficult for ACB and selectors to consider mate. Steve Waugh with backward defense. Hayden I think forward defense could teach them lessons hahah. As it stands Renshaw has the better game/style for green wickets in England and NZ . Bancroft Aus and Sth Africa . Im not sure who plays spin better of the pair for India but our whole batting side struggle as spin comes on in India but they go well on the pace decks there actually

Rowdy smith has an average of 30 in 2024 so far , but so does khawaja and labs (30). head even worse averaging 24. And the summer series wasnt great over 5 tests for head and labs too with poor averages. They are all a watch in the India series but they go to the best grounds for Aussies traditionally to begin Perth Adelaide and Brisbane earlier this time.
If smith khawja and more so labs and head dont get it right there well they have real problems for selection (that is if they average under 35) which really isn’t good enough on home decks. Im pretty sure Smith will respond and the others can but Im not overly confident with India coming and they won’t be as forgiving as Pakistan or West Indies and have pulled our pants down twice in a row in Australia which hadn’t happened ever before those two series.
So a big summer ahead and a big test for those 4 batsmen. Bison has come big currrnecy after his last year and Green a WIP at his age and should play the first 3 tests. The selectors rarely drop any players mid series though and will have memory loss over the current averages over the last 7 tests let alone the 9 tests before that.
The story has been one of declining averages for all 4 batsmen over the last 12 months and 4 series. Before that Sth Africa were crap when they toured over 12 months go to Aus which bolstered all their averages . Despite playing Pakistan and windies too their averages all still went down Ive noted. Interesting summer ahead! It should sort out who goes to Sri Lanka and West Indies on tours and who stays in 2025

I meant labs and smith opened in England in a few series at times due to openers failing so much

Well so far Smith and Khawaja in 2024 over 4 tests have averaged 30 each. Labs 30 too. We will get a better look at them over 4 test in December. What concerns me thinking a bit more globally is its likely both will retire by end of the Ashes at home in 2025. Ok its speculation but Khawaja is 38 end of year. That makes him 39 the year after. Smith for me I’ve noted doesnt have kids and has OCD with cricket Im wondering how we would have a family and play cricket. Hes mentioned retirement is on the cards sooner than later for him a few times in press conferences. I wouldn’t mind a few dollars on the fact that family planning may kick in and he won’t want to tour abroad after the ashes series at home 2025 where he could retire at Sydney at home.
So with that in mind and the test schedule being:
India 5 tests over summer.
Sri Lanka two tests feb 2025
Windies winter tour 3 tests 2025
England 5 tests In Aus 2025
I reckon that will be it for them both after that sequence if they dont have a batting meltdown before then which I doubt will occur from that line up as 10 tests are at home against two of the best sides which they will be pumped for as well. Smith loves tonking England around. I dont think they will fancy a 5 test series away to India in 2026 or be holding up the form by that age myself especially abroad with Khawaja approaching 40 . So how do we prepare for the next openers. You may be right Smith to first drop or down order . Labs could open or get one of the new boys in if Head doesnt pull his head in on the home deck or labs has a dire summer as both are averaging 24 and 30 in 2024 already which is poor after a poor summer average as well. As it stands Smith is going to open in the first two tests but they might want to keep a reasonable outlook for changing order or getting one or two new batsmen in after that if its dire or labs or head underperform again

I feel for him being lead by carrot top in sandpaper gate so young. He was a big prospect then and has done well in shield after being terrible in England opening but then again they all were in 2019 really and smith and labs did the opening defecto job anyway.

It really hurt prospects for Renshaw and Bancroft to be given good runs at the top opening .

I always think back to that 2019 series. I had the privilege of sitting at lords where archer was throwing them down at smith before archer got injuries , it was body line stuff. Smiths series there is the finest I’ve seen in my lifetime from any batsmen for me dating back to 1978 my earliest memories. The series really exemplified how good cummins and hazel wood were as well before hazel wood picked up niggles at headingly and the last test. Their average was insane early on in the series around 14 from memory then it finished around 19 and 21 when they were both stuffed bowling first in the 5th test which was stupid by the captain as they’d come off nearly two days of bowling in the 4th test with a few days break.
Smith was in his absolute prime and after the awful ridicule and public/media overkill he suffered it was simply one of the great sporting performances. I had Englishman hands on head saying how do we get him out “we just cant he’s just too good’ another next to me said “he’s the best I’ve ever seen” . It ultimately took concussion to get him out and rattle him a tad for the rest of the tour.
Cummins and hazewlood are pressing to make the top 5 Aussie bowlers of all time . I say that because hazel wood has had a lot of injuries but when he’s been injury free like 2019 ashes or in New Zealand its hard to split them. I think Cummins gets more out of a benign pitch and when the chips are down he bangs them in and finds wickets like no other on flatter decks.
Cummins Hazelwood and Smith are certainly candidates for my all time Aussie XV which of course can be debated. Agree on carey and inglis. Ive been a carey cheerleader to my ridicule even instead of paine once the bans were over he’s some sort of asset with the gloves and keeps getting better with them. Inglis a decent number 2 option. We have even more keepers which is not an area we suffer in at all. Anyway I am in awe of cummins hazelwood and Smith as cricketers. It will be a sad day when they go , we will miss them I think on every level.

Bush good to hear from you

1) Perhaps I should reiterate more data I’ve posted to Jeff and elsewhere. I have got cam seeing the light on the data (im not basing this on little data)

2024 averages:
Smith 30.
Usman 30.
Labs 30.
Head 24.

Now thats 4 tests . I appreciate we need to see the next 4 tests. Maybe the break will do them some good and Head gets his chance on the traditional Aussie fortresses Perth Adelaide and Brisbane in December . But to be clear these are DECLINING AVERAGES that are not good enough for senior batsmen as they stand and dips on all previous years for all four of them. Evidence of the decline.

Summer home series averages (5 tests)
Usman Khawaja – 359 at 39.
Steve Smith – 314 at 44.
Marnus Labuschagne – 226 at 28.
Travis Head – 200 at 25.

Here we see declining averages before the 2024 declining averages for each player. Obviously Smith and Khwaja have sufficient averages but note it was on home decks against two of the lowest ranked test sides away from home who haven’t won in decades in Aus. Note that also includes Heads huge home pitch knock which is the easiest and most familiar ground for him to bat on.

England tour before that:
Khwaja 49 (excellent).
Smith 37.
Head 36.
Labs 32.

Do we notice a defending or mediocre pattern there for Head and Labs. in particular. In the Indian tour the averages were in the 40s except Smith Had a bad tour (29), Lab (40) but In defense Head didnt play in the first nightmare spin test and was elevated to open which was the easier time to bat before spin by a distance where they all started losing their wickets down the order so that assisted Khawaja and Head getting higher averages there. In any event what we see in 4 series in a row is a steady decline over a decent sample (16 tests over 12 months) . Case closed for me its whats im trying to tell you the batting averages have declined and you can not say they haven’t on the above data no doubt you’ll try mate but facts are fact here.

Some notes on other points:
I didnt include Green in my analysis . I dont have a problem with him after having first tours on foreign decks which is difficult for new young batsmen who is clearly very talented and needs time and I believe its great to have a young guy who is doing well in the side if possible he’s the only one at present and with smith and khawaja gone in two years I hope he can have a big summer coming up. So I am confirming this is about our 4 senior batsmen at the top of the order. Bison has done well of course over 12 months . Carey well NZ tell us it all.

Finally some more analysis proving you and Jeff wrong about the West Indies Brisbane test. I agree Smith is a batting freak even if he is declining in average its still above average for most part but the thing with the Brisbane test is I dont buy it was down to the bowler being too good. he was excellent I’ve never disputed that but lets have a look at the whole test. !st innings Khawaja made 75 Carey 65 Heck Cummins made 64 so if he can do it…. Second innings. Smith 91* Green 42. So batting was possible there. I repeat it was a poor batting effort from Australia but really Labs and Heads are the culprits yet again .

Im glad end of the day we agree on the last comment which is where we should probably finish for now with 9 months off Bush. They will all start In December. I dont need to repeat that its Head and Labs that desperately need to elevate their last 12 month averages as several could be rotated in if those averages aren’t above 35 on home decks in particular. Its not good enough at home Aussie pitches thats for sure. There is a good chance they can elevate next summer but no certainty. They should get a good shield lead in if they aren’t playing t20.

It was a great performance but once again if Smith (92*) and Green (42) can do as well as they did the other batsmen were very poor Jeff. Its as simple as that. Lets not forget Ussie made 75 and carey 62 (I find the batting detractors proven wrong with him ) as well first innings. It was possible to bat well at the Gabba so from that perspective you are stone cold wrong, you cant deny that with smiths innings. Its one statistic for me alongside a very poor series finish in England where Australia was lucky to hang on and a very poor top order batting performance yet again in yesterdays test and suggests marsh and the bowling quartet let alone Careys brilliant keeping are making our carrying a at least a few of our senior batting line up Since February of last year .
Out batsman averages decreasing in last 10 tests dont lie. We need a higher sample from the Indian series later this year for 2024 but at the moment in 2024 the two openers and Labs average 30, Head averages 24.
During the summer series at home against two lower ranked test teams who haven’t beaten us at home in decades, Marcus averaged only 28, Head averaged only 25. Thats against two very low ranking test sides and very poor batting from these two.
Brisbane was a poor result where Smith showed it was possible to make a century. These are facts Jeff. A great performance by Joseph for sure Ive never said otherwise so your twisting that a bit but you are understimating some poor top order batting from Australia and the averages. Many agree with this as its pretty factual off the averages and opposition played. The averages dont lie over summer and since let alone the end of the England series. You can go off quoting averages before the last year of cricket and bump them up against a poor sth Africa the summer before if you like but in the last year there is a clear top order batting decline Jeff and its very hard to argue against that. It really does bode well for marsh , carey keeping and the bowlers performances with bat and ball though thats a huge positive. Not all doom and gloom Jeff.
Huge Kudos to Marsh and our bowlers and Careys fantastic keeping though and I think the two openers have been reasonable together so far but hopefully they can get back up to their lofty higher standards. Lower averages on Australian decks do concern me thought. The big watch is on Head and Marnus next summer but I do hope they get their averages back up to scratch as they are both capable and on a home deck there are no secures left next summer for them not to improve.

lets not forget smith and head effectively opened together in England over a few series where Warner kept flunking and in 19 they Smith and labs we unbelievable effectively opening allot of the time . They are fine for the next 3 tests against India. If India start winning in Perth and Adelaide we would have real problems as they are grounds australia rarely lose at more recently let alone dont draw at them much recently .

Renshaw had a bad run carrying the drinks getting squeezed in at number 5 in India of all places where none of them did well except it was a tad easier to open . He needs to open not bat at 5 but had a lot of time carrying the drinks whilst Bancroft had a consistent run at shield . Of the two I fancy renshaw on greener English and kiwi decks and Bancroft at home in Aus actually

If Warner had gone earlier wed have less problems with these debates for me on openers. We do need to monitor the openers average this summer and more important labs and head

Its a shame renshaw hasn’t had more opportunities opening but Warner ensured a nightmare by hanging around for at least a year too long and shouldn’t have been picked abroad where has been even worse in last two years . I agree Bancroft has been pour to date opening. If they have a good shield summer Bancroft and renshaw may get their opps after next summer or towards end of it. The opening pair cant go forever at their ages but I cant validate sacking them given their averages. First test in NZ wasnt easy to open on too. Second test they were more disappointing. No ones getting dropped as it stands for opening test against India

Talk of Ussie and Smith going is ridiculous. I do note their average has declined to 30 each this year in last 4 tests but lets see how they go with 9 months of extra aging against India. On home decks they should be ok they need to both average over 35 by end of year and 4 tests at Perth MCG Gabba and Adelaide by years end should do the trick. Lets see if Khawaja can continue the effort at 38. Hes been outstanding until this year began. Smith also held australia together when every other batsman was failing in the Gabba loss to the windies

Smith and Khawaja have average 30 this year. Labs and Head are the worry . Heads averaged 24 so far. They will all start next summer but should be montored

4 for 34 was terrible what a comeback from bison carey and cummins . Head was terrible yet again . Average of 24 this year so far. Will probably paper the touring cracks head has back on Aussie pitches . Labsuchange needs a strong summer against India too