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Pomoz

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The Evil Empire?? Have you ever been to Penrith? It is a working class suburb on the fringes of Sydney. It is full of fibros and old red brick cheapies from the 70’s. The surrounding areas like St Marys and Mt Druitt are poor, underprivileged areas. Melbourne is an entire city of millions with vast wealth and resources in comparison. The Storm was funded by News Ltd, a wealthy multinational corporation. The Panthers was started with spit, sawdust, meat raffles and blokes like Merv Cartwright. Yes, it has a big leagues club now, but it started with nothing. The leagues club raises money for the team, which spends a fortune in the local area to help develop sports in the Penrith district.

I know Luai can be a pratt, but how can you make such a ridiculous statement? Empire!! I wish I had know when I sold my 3 bedroom LJ Hooker house there. Maybe I should have trebled the price as a reflection of its status, as it was it gave me enough for a deposit on a house in the city.

The silent killer that looks set to claim Penrith's season

Err, I think faking injury is also against the rules and at the very least is cheating.

Gamesmanship, grace, humility and did the Eels get hosed? Talking points from NRL finals Week 2

How are you measuring “better in 2021”? Cleary has the same try assists in fewer games (16 vs 19) and more line break assists in fewer games. Hughes has a better running game with more line breaks and tackle breaks.

Hughes has a better running game but when you add in the impact of Cleary’s tactical kicking I just can’t see how Hughes gets the spot.

'Loads of points, and tough stuff in the middle': My 2021 All-NRL side

Good article Tony. With a backrow of Yeo, Murray and Crichton that is some serious tackling power and plenty of footy skill as well. NSW would love to see those three run around in next year’s SOO.

I’m a Panther’s fan and if Capewell got a jersey I would say he should buy a lottery ticket. He has been quite average for several weeks this year. Liam Martin has been a better player this season. I think Jake T would be a better option, although admittedly he couldn’t play centre but Yeo, DCE and Murray can cover that at a pinch.

Who I'd pick for the Kangaroos if they were playing right now

I understand your criticism of Cleary, but the Panther’s finished with exactly the same points as the Storm. The minor premiership was decided on for and against. They also had seven players out through Origin, not six. I think Bellamy is coach of the year, but Cleary is pretty damn close.

NRL Round 25 talking points: Resting to be tested and Cecchin gets late respect

So referee’s make errors and that means the NRL administration is rubbish and should be scrapped? A bit of an overreaction, it ain’t perfect but I think the NRL administration is better than it has ever been.

I share your disdain about the trainers, they should be banned, full stop. There is no need for a water runner in a game that lasts 40 minutes a half. If a player is injured, they can only come on the field if they have permission from a touch judge or ref. They must not leave the player’s side and must come off immediately. Why are they allowed to be behind the defensive line issuing instructions? If they do that they should get sent off along with the team’s captain. It is cheating, pure and simple. Imagine Manchester United having Brian Kidd running behind the United defence shouting instructions to their left back, or Klopp in midfield clutching a water bottle and shouting at his Liverpool players to cover the gaps. It’s farcical.

I agree they haven’t got the treatment of offences right yet. The inconsistent decision are reflective of the fact that the rules rely on people’s judgement all the time. Henry didn’t think the tackle was that bad, others think it terrible. You should note that there are other people who agree with what Henry did, just emphasising that everybody has a different view.

One of the best ways to remove the judgement is to tighten up the rules so no judgement is required. If you tackle somebody and they need to leave the field as a result of foul play, you are off, no ifs, no buts. Mitchell would have been off without anybody needing to start on fanciful discussions of intent.

Earlier this season Yeo was carried off the field after Flegler hit him high and he only got ten in the bin. He should be off. No ifs, no buts.

It actually doesn’t matter if somebody has intent. It is irrelevant. The outcome is somebody is hurt as a result of foul play. End of discussion. Your cheekbone is just as broken whether the player meant it, or they were reckless or careless. The circumstances are irrelevant. The fact a player has stepped or slipped has no bearing on the outcome, a fractured cheek bone. If the tackling player couldn’t adjust in time, the tackle by definition is careless.

In the heat of the game is not the place to consider Intent, and mitigating circumstances. The judiciary is the place to sort out the suspension based on their review. They can look at whether a player fell, or whatever other mitigating circumstances may be relevant. I would remove intent from all discussion about sentences. Focus on outcomes and whether something happened that made the tackle worse. A player stepped, slipped, was pushed by another player and so on.

Intent is impossible to prove, is invariably denied and excessively objected to by various third parties with quotes from old ladies the player helped across the road, “he is a lovely lad” and statements from their coach (unbiased of course). It is all ridiculous theatre that is not helpful and irrelevant in helping player safety.

Obviously, Latrell didn’t want to see his friend having a metal plate inserted in his face, but the tackle was so ridiculously careless he should buy several lottery tickets for only getting six weeks.

Why the focus on Latrell misses the real issue in a failing system

What a great concept and thanks for the article, I enjoyed it. That said, it would be a cold day in hell before Gower gets to play halfback ahead of Brandy in my team. Brandy was a much better halfback than Gower, who I would put at hooker in this team. Sadly, Royce wouldn’t make the cut.

Incidentally, Brandy captained the 91 side not Royce. He was at the end of his career and struggling for form. Mind you, he saved his best until last with two tries in the GF!

The club stalwarts: Penrith and Cronulla

I think adding Fisher Harris and Brian To’o might add a little bit to the team.

Just for kicks, 'incredible' Cleary fires for Panthers, Manly terrific even without Tom

I see. Nobody is moving, so we subtract the word “charge” from the description and what we have is “shoulder”. As far as I’m aware, it isn’t illegal to use a “shoulder” in the NRL if it isn’t attached to an aggressive rushing movement with force. Words have meaning Elvis, you can’t ignore them because they don’t suit your argument.

I know the tackle left Bird all shook up, but don’t be cruel to Cleary. I just can’t help believing that the tackle was legitimate.

'The rules are ridiculous, with unbearable outcomes': NRL inconsistencies not all the referees' fault

Tim, can you see the Harbour from up there on your high horse? A tackle that’s not remotely dangerous and you get all Rumpole of the Bailey. Meanwhile, Fafita is in an induced coma after receiving a blow from a cocked arm in a tackle. A tackle that wasn’t penalised. Nothing to say about that?

Yeo is out for two weeks after he is knocked out and the player isn’t sent off, anything to say about that? Here you are going nuts about a player who braced themselves, didn’t charge at the attacking player and made contact with the midriff and ball. Tim, you need to get out more. Covid is making you angry.

The blatant Cleary shoulder charge and what it confirms about the NRL

I don’t agree. “Charge” is not figurative. The word means inter alia “to rush aggressively”. There was no rushing, he was stood still.

It really annoys me that Flegler can knock out Yeo in a terrible tackle that sidelines him for weeks and doesn’t get sent off. Nobody says a word about the ref failing to protect players in an incident when a player genuinely gets hurt with an injury that could contribute to his career ending. Here we are banging on about an incident where it wasn’t even remotely dangerous. I don’t get the indignation at all.

'The rules are ridiculous, with unbearable outcomes': NRL inconsistencies not all the referees' fault

There was a shoulder, I agree with that. There was no charge though, his feet were planted. Cleary didn’t move, he just braced himself and Bird ran into him. I don’t see why that should be illegal unless it hits somebody’s head. It is a pretty low risk tackle when you brace yourself for collision, you are a static target and the attacker can adjust their body. Bird lent into it and tried to knock Cleary over and that is why the ball squirted out. Why can’t you brace yourself for collision?

'The rules are ridiculous, with unbearable outcomes': NRL inconsistencies not all the referees' fault

Thank you for sharing your personal experience of such an awful tragedy and sorry for your loss Joe. Your article is beautifully written with compassion, wisdom and insight.

We have no way of knowing what will be best for TPJ to come to terms with the loss, we all grieve differently. Perhaps unleashing his anger on the field will be cathartic for him. What I do know is that the Panther’s are a good bunch of blokes and they will do whatever is needed to help him, regardless of how long he has been at the club and whether he ever even plays a game. It is just a game, after all.

Tevita Pangai Jr's shattered heart is a season-ending injury

Well said Steveng, it makes the NRL crackdown look like a joke. All these “brave Bronco” headlines make me laugh. They take out our captain, our first receiver for most of our plays and get to play at home with no disruption to their team and still can’t win. Brave? Pfft

'I don't know what you've got to do to get sent off': Unconvincing Panthers deny Broncos

Maybe, but against the Broncos they were not just missing Cleary. They were missing Korasaiu and Cleary. That is half the spine. They lost Yeo after 8 minutes and he plays as first receiver and is crucial to their attack. Finally they lost their replacement halfback May in the second half and had to reshuffle the spine again.

Arrogant? How about resilient because they still won in spite of the foul play, injuries and disruption to their spine. All done while playing away from home at Suncorp.

'I don't know what you've got to do to get sent off': Unconvincing Panthers deny Broncos

I have explained. The Dogs can’t be arsed to have a NSW cup team. They don’t take development seriously. You ridicule the effort the Panthers took to first, scout Burton, relocate him to Penrith. Train and coach him and give him an opportunity at the club. You think that is cheap to do?

Why the Panthers were doing that the Dogs were outsourcing NSW cup and re-electing a new Board every year.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

How is NSW Cup irrelevant to the development of junior players? It is the last step before first grade. This type of muddled thinking is how we ended up with NSW cup being downgraded and u21’s being classed as the be and end all. The step up from u20’s to first grade is huge. You only have to watch a game to see that. NSW cup is a crucial step in junior development.

A junior is not a finished article when they play their last u20 game. Kikau had two years in NSW cup, without that I doubt he would have made it to the level he is now. If the Dogs get a Kikau, I hope the Mounties club can develop him for you. …

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

So Mounties are a professional club? They are playing in the same competition as NRL NSW cup teams, but that is as far as it goes. They do not have a team in the NRL. How do they know what it takes to be an NRL player? They don’t have a team. They train in a different place, have a different CEO, a different set of values. As a Dogs fan I am amazed you think this is OK.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

What is counter productive about encouraging investment in juniors. Are you trying to be argumentative on purpose? Your argument is leave things as they are, the incentive is to win more games. Unfortunately some teams are too dumb to make the investment in grass roots so you have to spell it out for them.

Another alternative is to take junior development away from them altogether and let the NRL run it.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

There seems to be this blind spot on development. It seems people only thinks its valid if the player was developed at 16. This is in spite of the fact that the transition from NSW/QLD Cup to first grade is such a big step most players don’t make it.

The two examples cited maybe bad ones, but here is a clip of Gus talking about the Roosters GF winning team two years ago:
“Nine to 10 players from their grand final squads made their NRL debut at the Roosters, and seven to eight of those joined the Roosters before turning 20 years of age (and many before turning 18).

Further, only five to six players were established first-graders at other clubs before joining the Roosters, and only two to three of those players, in each successful grand final team, were what could be classified as ‘‘star recruits’’.”

The Roosters develop players. They invest in it and deserve credit for it. The alleged “salary cap sombrero” is an easy and popular target to attack, but it just ain’t true.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

But Paul, what the Storm and the Roosters do is development. Turning 18 and 19 year olds into first graders is just as important as taking 16 and 17 year olds. Have a look at the Holden cup winning teams from the last ten seasons. How many of those players made it to first grade. For some reason people assume that once player has played in the “so called “junior” teams, that is the end of it. The drop out rate is huge. The next step of development and one which the the Storm and Roosters seem to be really good at, is absolutely crucial.

The Storm and the Roosters spend a fortune on the development of players, they are just not 16 year olds from Geelong or Paddington. Why does it matter where they are from? If they are prepared to spend the money to train them? The Panthers, Tigers and Parramatta can’t possibly develop every young player out West in their catchment areas. Why not let other clubs take some of them as well? Surely it benefits the game for kids to get training from such professional clubs as the Roosters and the Storm?

My only quibble is that say the Roosters sign an 18 year old from Penrith and the Panthers have trained him for two years, they should get some form of compensation for it. Otherwise, good on them for being prepared to train a player and make the investment.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

TB, Kikau played 42 games in Holden Cup for the Cowboys. They absolutely deserve credit for part of his development. When he was signed by the Panthers he was not a first grader. He spent two years in NSW cup only playing 9 first grade games in his second year. He was put through a development programme in NSW cup to improve his mobility and fitness. He was rotated through several positions to develop his skills.

This is not the same as Burton who has made his first grade debut at the Panthers, been developed in the junior teams for two years and is ready to play.

My problem is not that it is the Dogs, it is that they can’t even be bothered to have a NSW cup team so they can save money. Money they can then spend on signing a player like Burton. They have outsourced part of the development pathway.

They have tried to destabilise the Panthers with all this talk about “you should let him go, it what’s best for him” and yet they can’t be bothered to even develop their own adult players.

No, They don’t deserve to sign players like Burton when they aren’t prepared to do the hard yards themselves. If Burton was signed by the Broncos or Raiders, you wouldn’t hear a peep from me. They develop lots of players and put the effort in at grass roots level.

As for this large junior area myth. There is nothing to stop any club signing a kid playing in Campbelltown, or St Clare or Ipswich. There are no rules in place to stop any scout driving to the Penrith district every week and watching local kids play and offering contracts to those they deem worthy.

My nephew was selected by the Panthers to play at an u13’s training camp. His Dad, god only knows why, is a mad keen Dogs fan and would have loved to have seen him play at a Dogs training camp. If they had made an offer he would have taken it.

Jack Hetherington wanted to play for the Roosters but a Panthers scout had spotted him first and approached his family. Oh hearing of his Roosters preference Gus Gould put him in touch with the Roosters and he got picked for their junior team. See, it doesn’t matter where you are based, it’s up to a scout to find you and make an offer.

Now why would I want my 18 year old son to play for the Dogs? As soon as he is 20 they will farm him off to a bunch of amateurs at the Mounties……..

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

I don’t hate the Dogs, but I deplore the poor decision they have made about NSW cup. The NSW cup is an essential step in player development. It is where young players get to play against adults and see what it’s like playing against players that are faster and stronger. If used properly, it can help young players understand what is required to train hard enough to make iot to first grade.

The Dogs have decided to allow an amateur club to be the final finishing step for their players to get experience. Why? To save money so they can get your cheque book out and sign players like Burton. It is an extremely short sighted and negative thing for a club to do. The Panther’s did exactly the same with Windsor and St Mary’s and wondered why its development of players was deeply flawed. St Mary’s and Windsor are fine clubs, but they are amateurs and have their own club culture and systems. I am sure Mounties are the same.

Development is development. It doesn’t matter if its Harold Matthews or NSW cup, they are all essential steps in building first graders. The word “juniors” is meaningless. Some players are in their mid-twenties before they make first grade and NSW cup is crucial for those players to have a place to develop at a high standard. You can’t control development until a player is 20 and say “we are done now, off you go to Mounties”.

Tom Eisenhuth played NSW cup for 7 years until he made his debut with the Storm at the age of 27. He might have made it earlier if he had been playing NSW cup for Penrith instead of its affiliate the Windsor Wolves. Once he was 20 and ineligible for Holden Cup, he trained and learned his profession at the Wolves ground, with their training regimes and systems. Meanwhile the first grade team was over in Penrith doing something completely different…….Madness.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

TB, how is having a big junior area an advantage? There is absolutely nothing stopping a scout from going to St Clare, watching a game and making an offer to the parents of a promising junior. What difference does it make that they are in the Penrith district? There are no rules from stopping any club from signing promising players in Australia or NZ. None whatsoever. Without any restriction, it is largely irrelevant where a kid is playing. The only thing it does is make it easier for Panther’s scouts to drive to the games, assuming they live locally.

As for Burton, I am not angry at all. I am making the point that a club that can’t be arsed to have its own NSW cup team doesn’t deserve to cherry pick other teams talent. Invest in your development pathways if you want to develop players. Out sourcing the NSW cup team removes a vital step that you can control in the development of the players.

In respect of Kikau he played 42 games in the Holden Cup for the Cowboys. He played in NSW cup for the Panthers for a year. The Cowboys deserve credit for developing him at the start, as do the schools he played Rugby Union in, which is where he started. When he arrived at the Panther’s he was not a first grade player. Sure, he had enormous potential but the Panther’s put in place a programme to improve his mobility and fitness and he was moved through a number of positions in NSW cup to help with that. He debuted at the Panthers in 2017 and played 9 games, moving back to NSW cup to continue his development.

Burton is already a first grade player and had made his debut. He has had two years of development from the Panthers and is now getting a third year. They are not the same at all.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

well mkersed you need to keep up. The Roosters spend a lot of money on development and their last gard final winning team had 10 players that they debuted as first graders. junior development doesn’t just mean 11 year olds from Paddington et al.

Forget the rules, this is the NRL's biggest problem

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