Great read Mike. A refreshing change from the South Sydney soap opera.

I can imagine the guys at Foxsports reading this and getting a headache. Too many big words and too much conceptual thinking required. No mention of Gus either…..

“The ball clearly goes backwards”. Yeah, of course it does AJ. Anyway, besides the fact it was a poor decision, it did not impact the result. Manly were too good.

The Panthers look a bit busted up to me. Leota, Martin and JFH looked like they were underdone and still carrying an injury. Martin was carrying his arm by his side the whole game and kept missing tackles. It might have been better to let the young blokes have a run instead, they would still have lost but would have got an extra weeks recovery.

If you think Kenny is average, I suggest you watch the 2022 GF when he and Leota smashed the Eels forwards. Or any other game for that matter. Kenny is tough as teak and sets the tone for our forwards.

He isn’t creative like Api, or flashy like Grant, but he is nails hard, aggressive and has a huge motor. Exactly the type of player neither NSW or the Dragons of old value.

Good article AJ. I fully support your desire to leave the refs alone and stop with the Annesley meetings. It is ludicrous to ask the refs to account for decisions in this humiliating way. Never mind the fact it will not improve the quality of refereeing, it is just the modern equivalent of throwing fruit at somebody locked in the village stocks.

Fox Sports just need to get better at finding things to talk about other than teams being “robbed” by refereeing decisions, “coaches “blowing up” at refereeing decisions and teams being “dudded” by refereeing decisions. Lazy journalism. Stop already, it is tedious and pointless.

“The Panthers production line is an awesome resource for their club, but there’s a huge difference between pumping out young players and producing young players who are first grade ready and can slot straight in”. This is so true. The Eels, Broncos,Tigers, Cowboys and St George Illawarra have got pretty large junior pools and the Panthers have had a large junior pool since 1967.

So what happened in the other 40 years of the Panther’s existence? What’s holding the Eels back? A club can only sign players within the constraints of the salary cap. You can’t stockpile players. There is nothing stopping any club sending a scout to St Marys and signing up the cream of talent there. They don’t automatically become a Panthers junior. Suallii is from Glenmore Park and somehow ended up at Souths and then Easts.

It is very easy to just say “big pool of juniors = more quality NRL players to choose from”, but as the wooden spoons and ten year drought of finals football attest, it means nothing without the right development process and culture at the club. Of all the things that have happened at the club under Cleary, it is the design and fine tuning of this process that is the most important.

Good article James. The old saying “forwards win games. The backs decide by how much”, is still as true as ever.
Much as I love Nathan Cleary, I have no delusions about what is the key element of the Panthers success. The forward pack is one for the ages. Tough, fierce, but extremely fit and a little bit skilful.
The demolition of the Eels in the 2022 GF was delivered by the front three’s brutality. If it was a boxing match, the ref would have stopped the fight to prevent further damage.
Ilias could have led that pack to victory. Any halfback could succeed behind that wave of muscle, sinew and aggression. Instead Ilias is behind a pack that isn’t very fit (Murray excluded) and struggles to stay on the field. I also have sympathy for the fact he is the junior man in the middle of Walker, Mitchell and Cook and they have their own ideas how to make the “broth”.
After listening to Mitchell’s latest sweary outburst, I cant help that think his ego can’t be good for the team either. Maybe Sam Burgess was on the money? Remember Murray’s retort to Mitchell complaining he didn’t get the ball when in support, “to be fair, you are not usually there”. I think there is more unrest to come.

“I don’t care if I’m swearing”. OK, so you are happy for children to copy you? You are happy for sponsors to turn away because they don’t want to be associated with profanity. You are happy to offend people who follow the game who don’t like swearing. You are happy that a mother decides her children aren’t playing league because their stars are foul mouthed and it is accepted? What a supremely arrogant and selfish thing to say.

We all swear, but there is a time and a place. It is respectful not to swear when others are present who may be offended. It is classier to temper your profanity when context requires it.

He just sounds selfish and arrogant. He wants respect but doesn’t want to give it to others. In a team environment, how can it be healthy for the team when it is all about him?

The Broncos had the wooden spoon and then finished second last, the two years before Reynolds arrived.
Reynolds turns up and they finish 9th and then they make the GF. Hmmm.

Meanwhile Souths make the GF with Reynolds, he leaves they finish 7th and then 9th. Can you see the pattern here?

Reynolds may have had a quiet GF but the Broncos were leading by 16 points. He had the team where it needed to be but the effort in the first half had gassed the team and they just couldn’t keep up with the Panther’s relentless pace. They lost to a team that is possibly the best of the modern era and you blame Reynolds.

Letting him go was a mistake, but that’s sport. Some idiot at the Panther’s thought it was good idea to let wade Graham sign with the Sharks. Stupidity is rife in the NRL, every club has its “stick to truck driving son, you’ll never make it as a singer” moment, as they send Elvis Presley off with a flea in his ear.

It has been forgotten just how good Taylan May was in his first full year. Provided he can recover from his injury fully, he will make an excellent centre. Crichton was all class for the Panthers, but May can be a pretty good replacement if given the chance.

As for Leniu, Henry is a different style of player and doesn’t have the explosiveness and aggression of Leniu. However, he does have an incredible motor and if asked to play in short bursts instead of the long minutes he did in NSW cup, he might be able to offer a loss explosive but more consistent back up then Leniu gave in 2023.

Both Luai and Cleary are coming back from surgery in the off season so they will be underdone. I’m predicting a slow start for the Panthers, a bit like 2023.

Oh, you mean the game where he played 60 minutes with a shoulder that required surgery and pain killers to even get on the field? A shoulder that was dislocated weeks earlier in an unfortunate tackle where a players entire weight fell on his shoulder. The game where he was defending against the noted lightweights Haas, Flegler and Carrigan, and made 15 tackles for 1 miss.

It wasn’t about getting out of his way, the man could barely lift his arm. By the time his replacement came on the Bronco’s were gassed, making life for his replacement a lot easier.

Less than half? Way better? Four grand finals, three premierships, a world cup final with Samoa. Yeah, he is rubbish nowhere near as good as Prince.

What metrics are you using to measure the “less than half” of what Prince did? Obviously not trophies if my math is correct. I know he once gave a terrible best mans speech, but this level of ridicule is over the top.

Prince, the older he gets, the better he was.

That is an interesting fact, but it’s hard to say whether it is the travel or the salary cap. This year the Panthers are minus Crichton, Leniu, Cogger and Salmon due to the salary cap. Add in Staines, Kikau, Capewell, Momoroski, Tetavano, and Korasaiu and if the Panther’s don’t win this year is it because of the trip to Wigan, or the salary cap? There is a reason teams struggle to win back to back and a trip to the UK is only one factor.

The facts don’t really support this assertion. A coach is a leadership position. Three grand finals and two wins. Multiple SOO wins. He can coach, that much is true.

Lets talk about administration leadership. He become football GM at the Roosters. After years in the wilderness, the Roosters win and make multiple grand finals. Their development pathways start delivering rep quality players and the club is competitive every year.

He moved to GM at the Panthers. Previously, they barely made the semi finals in 10 years. Most of their spine brought from other clubs rejects (Walsh, Burns, Kingston. WTF?). By the time he leaves they have a succession of junior players coming through, winning finals in junior grades and making the semi finals every year. The team he brought through development pathways he put in place, threepeat.

A poor leader? Nah. He is polarising because he is opinionated and expresses himself using hyperbolic adjectives. He doesn’t suffer fools and tends towards the dramatic when offering his viewpoints. He seems to turn up his hyperbole to 11 when he is on TV.

It gets on my nerves too and I’m a Gus fan, but only a fan of footy Gus, not TV Gus. TV Gus revels in being a maverick contrarian and sticking it to the man, usually the NRL leadership.

If he was a poor leader, players and coaches he has worked with would not like him. I have never heard a player say “I didn’t like Gus, he was a poor coach, poor leader, terrible GM”. Usually they say the opposite.

If you really want to understand Gus watch him in podcasts like “Bloke in a Bar” talking about development. Listen to six tackles with Gus when he talks about players and teams. His passion and knowledge of the game is inspiring. TV Gus is a bore.

Good idea, but save the ink on the contract. Why we would he sign that when he can stay at the Panthers for $850k? There are so many things needed to go right for them to make the finals and Luai can’t decide recruitment, training, tactics and medical support. He would be a fool to put that money at risk. He is no fool.

Its not about ownership, its about investment. If you aren’t spending any money on juniors and then poach them from other clubs, that is not good for the game. Teams should be encouraged to invest. It means more players are developed for the code.

Penrith put years of development into Katoa only to have the Dolphins flash the cash and steal him. Why not invest in your own juniors?

No club can warehouse players, the squads are limited in size by NRL rules. There are no rules that require you to invest in junior development though. You can sit on your hands and do nothing and then just go and offer a good deal to the best juniors when they emerge. How is that good for the game?

Clubs should be required to invest in the long term health of the game by investing in development. Stick – make it compulsory. Carrot – concessions for home grown players. Either way, something should be done.

Please forgive me, I have had no formal coaching in rugby league, is “head down, bums up” football taught at basic or advanced level?

Oh, I see, I take it the expression is commonly used there? Men in lycra on bikes is not my cup of Darjeeling. I appreciate the supreme cardio levels these men possess, I mean 5 x winner Miguel Indurain’s resting heart rate of 28 represents a level of fitness even Dylan Edwards would admire, but it doesn’t entertain me. When they crash is good though…..
That would be entertaining, Dylan Edwards and Miguel Indurain (sans bike) in a “beep test” off. Might need extra batteries for the beeper……

Well, who says you can’t learn anything in a League Forum? The latin word palmares had me reach for the dictionary. Nice one. You are building quite the palmares yourself Mike!
I am giving you an honorary bronze “Barney Ronay” award for the use of expressive words in League articles. To get the gold “Barney Ronay” award, you will need to increase your metaphor and simile density per column inch. Come on Mike, I believe in you!

I really enjoyed the Tonga v England games. I hope they do an England tour every year on rotation. Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, NZ and maybe a round robin tournament every few years outside the World Cup cycle. One in England/France, one in Australasia.
Just make them short and sweet so the players get rest between regular footy seasons.

Re the Yeo vs Murray debate, they are both fabulous players. I hope that somebody in the NSW Blues is smart enough (a tall order I know) to play them both at the same time for the Blues. Murray at 13 and Yeo in the back row. They can rotate for set plays so Yeo can combine with Cleary when it makes sense, not every play.
It is stupid to drop Yeo if Murray is at 13, Yeo does so much clean up defence work and rarely misses a tackle. He is also willing to tuck the ball under the arm and smash it through the middle, he doesn’t need to ball play if that isn’t required. We need both of these two if we are going to beat QLD

I thought Tonga spent too much time trying to bash England and prove how tough they are, than trying to play football.

I also thought their centres seemed a bit ponderous and their inability to number up was exploited repeatedly. Suli and Penisini struggled for most of the game. Suli needs to move to the back row, he is just too slow.

The question that you should ask first is, how much can players improve with a good coach like Flanagan?

He will get the Dragons fit, they were knacker bags under Griffin and always faded as the game went on.

He will simplify their jobs. You only have to listen to him commentate to know he will be clear, concise and direct with what he expects.

He will build character into the team. He will not tolerate half hearted play. Posers trying flick passes to row Z will be given short shrift. He always notices the players that do the 1% plays. The dirty stuff nobody else wants to do. Players like Mitch Kenny and I note you have listed him as a potential recruit. With Mitch there is no such thing as a loose ball on the ground. Its”Mitch’s ball and everybody else can f%ck off”.

Love em or hate em, they didn’t play pretty football, but if you played Flanagan’s Sharks they were tough as teak. You knew you were in a battle. I think that the existing roster will improve just because Flanagan is a good coach and leader. Everybody though the Warriors roster was crap until Webster got hold of them.

I think the Dragons will be a much better team in 24, even if they don’t land too many of those potential recruits listed.

That is a massive compliment to Edwards that he kept his spot. It is always nice to see hard work, resilience and toughness paying off.

Well said TB, “play like Penrith” has more than a few limitations. Firstly, in my opinion JFH and Leota are the best front row pair in the NRL. The Panthers are 30% less effective when they aren’t playing. Haas is a great athlete but if you ask a QLD player who they would rather be tackled by Haas, JFH or Leota, they would all say Haas. NSW simply does not have the firepower in the forwards the Panthers have.

Secondly, the Panthers win a lot of games because they are fitter than every team in the NRL. The Broncos faded in the last 15 minutes because the relentless assault of the Panthers had them gassed and they couldn’t hold on. In SOO, fitness ain’t how NSW is going to beat QLD, they are an elite team. NSW can’t play Panther ball. Turning the ball back inside until QLD wilt won’t work.

Panther ball is too static for elite sides, we need a cunning plan.

Unleash our ball players. Let Cleary/Moses run, Cody Walker to line up the holes. Tell Tedesco to stop emulating Gallen and getting in the way of the ball players. Less is more, wait for the gaps.

Pick centres in the centres (go with me on this, its so radical, it just might work). Have Latrell ball playing in the centres and using his offloads.

Play what you see, structure gives you a base but you need to use the skills of our best players, not put them in a strait jacket. QLD could have left the field in game one and we still wouldn’t have scored. Pedestrian.

Make sure the balance of forwards is between aggression and skill. We can’t have all JWH type nutters (playing with 12 men while our psychos are in the bin is hard at SOO level), but we can’t pick too many fancy Dan ball playing Schusters either. We need mongrel and skill.

It’s not rocket surgery, but when Cook was moved to centre I thought “maybe it is”….

On point analysis woven into a humorous Simpsons fabric. Nice one Paul. I nearly choked on my salad with the “unrequested fission surplus” quote. Brilliant.

For West Tigers “doh!” worked just as well….