Why I'm not depressed by the All Blacks loss
In 2003 England won the Rugby World Cup after building a team of players who are now looked back on as legends of the…
Roar Guru
Joined May 2011
11.1k
Views
7
Published
5.4k
Comments
Each heart knows its own pain and even in laughter the heart may ache.
Published
Comments
In 2003 England won the Rugby World Cup after building a team of players who are now looked back on as legends of the…
To have a meaningful discussion on this topic is difficult. Perhaps not as difficult as a conversation about Israel Folau. But difficult enough, because…
Somebody wise once said the road to success is paved with failure. I don't know who that was, but I'll bet there was plenty…
When your collective Super Rugby franchises turn in a five-zip result for the weekend and on the back of a three-zip whitewash by the…
What a stupendous sporting feast awaits rugby fans on the coming weekend! The dream final so many wished for. The all conquering current world…
At the top of their game, the current All Blacks play an ensemble brand of rugby that is intense, physical, fast paced, relentless and…
I'm a tried and true Crusaders supporter and over the years we've had a lot of amazing times. Years ago, I can remember being…
I’ll ask it as a question then Paul:
If someone posts their private views, on their private account, on their own behalf, on their own time, from their own home, on issues that are not company business or even industry business – then – how exactly is that my business?
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
So in the morning you post personal attacks and in the afternoon you want a rational argument. You’re an odd fish Gray Hand.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Well I tend to follow the science, but don’t know why I would ever feel guilty about that.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
I’l post the same as I posted elsewhere:
If someone posts their private views, on their private account, on their own behalf, on their own time, from their own home, on issues that are not company business or even industry business – then it’s nothing to do with their employer.
To sack someone over it is sheer incompetence (in my view) on behalf of the company and their directors need a lesson in tolerance and pragmatism.
Who would want to work in a company where everyone has to agree the world view of the boss anyway? Not me. And if you can’t think things out for yourself you probably have no place working here. And if I can’t respect that then shame on me.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
I didn’t cite it as any legal precedent, I used to illustrate the position of a reasonable employer.
If someone posts their private views, on their private account, on their own behalf, on their own time, from their own home, on issues that are not company business or even industry business – then I don’t see how they can bring my business into disrepute. And my code of conduct doesn’t extend into their personal lives.
Might make a total ass of themselves of course. But hey, people do that every day and don’t get sacked for it. Be a lot of unemployed people that happened.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Without trying to offend you, I will point out that it was once the experience of European sailors that the Atlantic Ocean could not be crossed. Some believed the logical conclusion to that was that the planet must be flat.
Feelings are real but they are not always the truth.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
I’d need slightly more than, ‘it’s all in the chromosomes’.
And I did look it up, that’s how I came to this position.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
No fan of Jean Paul-Sartre, but I see his point. But there is another reason to post Markus.
Whilst a poster I reply to may not agreed with me, or be persuaded in any way readers may at the very least see that some of the more unreasoned posts have less depth than they thought and there is another reasoned (or equally reasoned) way to look at things.
Not all readers have thought things through is my assumption.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
And you are perfectly entitled to your feelings and views Mr Jack.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
A loss of some anonymity doesn’t justify removal of any human right though.
And I am not sure he was moaning about his lack of anonymity in any event.
This is about the fact his employer sacked him for a personal view posted on his personal account on his personal time from his personal premises that had nothing to do with his employers business or industry.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
So can I ask your point Piru?
That all people with any public exposure automatically resign their human rights?
How much public exposure is required?
Which exact rights disappear, does it happen all at once?
Do people get notified when they pass the ‘no rights’ line?
Or perhaps if you fail to police your internet anonymity (like named posters here for example) that you have tacitly accepted that ‘we’ own your private life (whoever we is).
Did anybody tell Geoff Parkes?
I am, of course, fishing because you don’t state your any specific point beyond your statements other than suggesting he is special.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
So what’s your argument Paul, that if any employee gets tax dollars they abdicate their private life?
That if you represented your country in any way that you give up your human rights?
Not trying to put words in your mouth, so if that’s not your argument then let me know.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Ah well, an argument in feelings then Jack isn’t it.
Not saying fact don’t exist, but claimed ‘facts’ without proofs are like the promise of rain that never comes.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
No one said it was one gay gene, that’s one of those straw men people love to point out.
But read Robin Lovell-Badge of the Crick Institute or Gil McVean at Oxford University. I am not asking anybody to take my word for it, the science is clear and accessible.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Look, if its so self evident as you imply then simply post the obvious proofs instead of just accusing people of dishonesty.
If it so clear and obvious then how hard can it be to post a mountain of facts?
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
If you keep making specific or implied claims I hardly think it’s unreasonable to challenge them. You were the one who claimed to speak on behalf of rugby supporters (implying a majority).
I am one. You don’t speak for me for example.
You claimed self harm was connected to Folau, I didn’t bring it up. I just pointed out your claim has no basis in fact.
Rugby Australia CEO on Folau: 'We didn't get it wrong'
True, but everyone knew it wasn’t quoted out of thin air and that a wider context clearly existed.
Also, there is nothing inherently wrong with getting your word muddled and people still getting the ‘gist’ of it. That’s because context matters and works to clarify understanding.
If we walk around life wilfully misunderstanding everybody it’s going to make for a very long day.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Sure, but that’s a pretty obtuse technicality, loss of employment is a material loss.
Behind the idea is the false argument that so called ‘free’ speech can be followed by very expensive consequences and still qualifies somehow as ‘free’. I also notice when that argument is pushed there is never an explicit detail as to how severe the consequences can be.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Well according to Mango Jack’s post that line is not as simple as you assume.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Just because paparazzi exist is in no way a solid argument that we are justified in removing other parts of peoples private lives in their general employment contracts.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
I own companies I don’t fire people over their private views on things.
I don’t even monitor it, how is their private life and opinions my business?
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Well for myself, I am not a gawker, but I get the idea. But I do suggest it’s a false equivalence because in that scenario nobody is removing any right unless they take further actions (presumably violence of some kind).
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
Fair enough, although you did say; ‘there are all sorts of bizarre rules and customs in the good book’.
If you know it for an ‘absolute fact’, post the proofs that lead you to believe it is a fact. Once in history ‘experience’ told European mariners the Atlantic Ocean could not be crossed, but experience then changed to catch up with the facts.
Due to the confronting nature of this debate I was forced to go and look at the research behind the claim homosexuality is an expression of ‘who they are’. What genetics shows is that the genders ‘male’ and ‘female’ are at a different level of classification than who we choose to sleep with. There are also many articles in places like Psychology Today defining sexuality as a behaviour.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise
But you started your post squarely stating it WAS their responsibility.
I don’t believe any poll exists of rugby supporters world wide, I think you just made that up.
Kids self harming is a fact but the issue is your have presented zero evidence of any causal link. Proof and facts are always relevant, without them we wouldn’t need a justice system.
All meaningful speech impacts on others, so that is not where the line sits. I believe the law sits at ‘incitement to violence’, and not ‘impact’ as you think. If ‘impact’ was the only standard I could claim to be ‘impacted’ by your posts and you could be removed from The Roar. Which is ridiculous. All debate would be ended.
I always fall on the side of freedom, because it was won by my ancestors at great cost and I refuse to surrender it to self appointed thought police without a fight.
I’ll even defend your right to disagree with me. Even if that defence ‘impacts’ somebody.
Rugby Australia CEO on Folau: 'We didn't get it wrong'
He is representing his own private personal opinions. The place of publication is not relevant to that fact.
The last column about Israel Folau ever, I promise