Who deserves a marquee spot in the NRL?
A fellow league-loving work colleague and I have just been sitting down on a break chewing the fat about the potential marquee system that…
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A fellow league-loving work colleague and I have just been sitting down on a break chewing the fat about the potential marquee system that…
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Hi Ben,
Interesting read. It’s hard to argue that there isn’t room and a need to make alterations to the ‘spectacle’ we have in rugby for the better. That said, I’m not sure some of the symptoms of the modern game that you’ve outlined are accurate.
‘less and less versatile’
Today’s forwards are infinitely more skilful with the ball than those from yester-year. Meanwhile, we have backs that can hit a breakdown and take a carry with as much skill and force as forwards from previous generations.
‘Is the fact that the range of sizes and body types with a chance of cracking the top level seems to be narrowing a good thing?’
I’m not sure that this can be seen as a criticism of rugby still. The ‘template’ 105kg rugby league player seems to be somewhat of a thing that the other code is drifting towards, aided by the more recent NRL rule changes that attempt to speed up the game. But rugby still has Tate McDermott, Josh Flook, Fraser McReight, Harry Wilson, Seru Uru and Zane Nonggorr all pulling on a jersey to go into battle together.
‘when skinny little fellas were playing in World Cups’
Two words- Finn Russell. Arguably the best 10 in the world right now and rugby’s self-proclaimed Messi. Take a look at him in the 6 Nations Netflix doco. He still comes in in the 80’s but he’s got the physique of Monty Burns.
If there’s one rule in rugby that I would change it would be only allowing penalty kicks to be taken inside the attacking 22m. That a team can keep a scoreboard ticking over from inside their own half or even around the midpoint of the field is a travesty. Teams should be encouraged to play rugby all the way up into their opponents red zone (and preferably into the in-goal).
WR's mooted law changes are great - but show there's a hell of a lot wrong with rugby in 2024, and that sucks
Vic Park was a great public course! Used to love teeing off into the Brisbane skyline…. It’s a shame it’s gone, but if it can’t be a golf course I’m ok for it to be the Olympic precinct. There’s Downey Park to the north and Roma Street Parklands to the south and the precinct designs seemed to maintain plenty of surrounding parkland with the ICB being built over the top of.
Suncorp Stadium could be knocked down as Brisbane's Olympic fiasco takes another twist
The Raymond Park warm up track wasn’t going to involve the resumption of houses. It seemed like plans were in place to navigate the challenges of the Gabba becoming the site for the stadium, but if what you’ve put forward there didn’t make it feasible, the Vic Park option is more favourable than QSAC.
Of course there’s no law saying an Olympic stadium has to be built in the middle of the city, but there’s an unwritten law that says you want to develop stadium infrastructure that doesn’t become a white elephant. Most of Australia’s successful stadium precincts are in areas with people, transport and entertainment venues and these factors decline the further out you go.
Homebush is at least close to the geographic heart of Sydney. It’s location hasn’t exactly been void of criticism throughout it’s lifespan though either.
Suncorp Stadium could be knocked down as Brisbane's Olympic fiasco takes another twist
Clearly Miles is trying to save his hide for October and it’s unfortunate that the result of his shortsighted clutch at power is going to have a global audience and be nothing short of embarrassing whether we make it to 2032 as the host city or not. It’s the bloody Olympics. Not the Comm Games, not some political football. It’s an opportunity, and it’s being squandered.
Political survival needs to be cast aside and what’s needed is strategy and a vision for what the Olympics could mean for Brisbane and SEQ. Investing in QSAC might be the cheaper option but it’s wasted investment. Apparently the quoted QSAC upgrade also doesn’t factor in 4 to $500 million on required transport infrastructure either. And for what? Transport that leads to a white elephant in the burbs that gets used once every blue moon.
The Gabba is clearly 5th in the pecking order of major capital city oval stadiums. Its capacity is 33k and 38k for cricket and AFL respectively. The Olympics presents an opportunity to do something about that. The funding for the school relocation has been allocated and works are underway. There’s no bigger show or platform than the Olympics and once the world comes and goes in 2032, you’ve got a stadium being used by 2 major sports for almost 12 months a year.
A world class 50/55,000 seat oval stadium wouldn’t exactly sit idle in Brisbane. The investments already been made to connect the Gabba to the rest of the city with CRR. Stop playing politics that risks us becoming a global laughingstock and just get it done.
Suncorp Stadium could be knocked down as Brisbane's Olympic fiasco takes another twist
Yes and no in terms of this dynamic being a bad thing for Super Rugby. And it’s not too dissimilar to how things work in the NRL- just different. For instance, I’m a blue living life north of the border and in a family full of maroons. They all have their local team they support but they also have skin in the game when one of the other 3 QLD teams is in action.
Watching the 2015 NRL GF was an interesting one. As an outsider that can’t stand the Broncos, I was almost more invested in the game than they were because they were playing their little brother and even if (when) they lost, it wasn’t easy to be too upset cause it meant a Cowboys victory.
It’s similar in Super Rugby. Instead of our group of teams being QLD based, they’re the Australian based teams. We all want our team to win but we also have skin in the game when another Australian team goes up against someone outside the extended family. From an engagement and interest perspective, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
Passionate, visceral, irrational tribalism is vital for any competition to succeed. Is a lack of it damaging Super Rugby?
The eastern suburbs might be a slightly easier sell for outsiders than Port Moresby. Just one of the many issues with this bid. A PNG exclusive team will be lambs to the slaughter while basing a team in a place where the living standard is so incredibly far behind the rest of the competition is a significant handicap to carry. They’ll be competing for the bottom 20% of the player market. The FIFO idea still doesn’t close that gap and it’s a clutching at straws attempt to get the round peg that is PNG in the square hole that is the NRL.
Christchurch almighty: New South Island NRL bid unveils logo, colours, mascot to be ready for 2026 ... and rival Crusaders
‘ southern sides would hate plying there in the heat’
I’m not sure the discomfort of existing teams is much of a selling-point for an expansion side. In any event, there’s more people in Randwick council than there are in Darwin. It makes no sense- but then again, very little does about the whole PNG bid other than the short to mid term risk being removed by government.
Christchurch almighty: New South Island NRL bid unveils logo, colours, mascot to be ready for 2026 ... and rival Crusaders
There’s large domestic markets that the game is in a position to finally make a play for while attempting to become a truly national sport. I get that Adelaide’s not quite there yet but Perth really should be drawing in all the expansion attention as team 18. There’s also significant regional markets in heartlands that live and breathe the game that shouldn’t be forgotten for their own team at some point either. Yet here we are with a city in a developing country that is regarded as one of the most dangerous in the world tipped to grab the 18th spot as part of some geopolitical strategy that will likely attract generous government support. And now another overseas market is getting some interest and this time it’s in a place that’s smaller than Canberra with a limited rugby league following. I just don’t like the direction the competition seems intent to be following.
Christchurch almighty: New South Island NRL bid unveils logo, colours, mascot to be ready for 2026 ... and rival Crusaders
Totally agree. He got rid of the pocket referee too which was the best way of cleaning up the ruck while freeing up the main ref to focus on enforcing the 10.
Exclusive: 'We want $1 billion'- V'landy's bullish vision of expansion, new Cup comp and staggering wealth
This bloke dead set might as well be speaking in tongues. How anyone can take anything that he says with more than a grain of salt is beyond me. Somehow he’s managed to fool another national union though… The guy is the epitome of all froth, no beer.
Eddie puts his foot in it again by claiming 'no regrets' after leaving Wallabies in 'a better place'
Brisbane doesn’t need 3 teams. They just got their second (which of course was long overdue) and while the league has made Sydney ‘work’ with 9 teams, it’s still far from an efficient landscape and not something they should be looking to replicate in Brisbane. If what’s there now hasn’t got you into rugby league… you’re probably not going to get into rugby league.
The population of the Sunshine Coast is closing in on half a million people (and growing fast), it’s an hour away from Brisbane (more than that by car most of the time), it’s a heartland of the game and they have no NRL representation. It shouldn’t be next but it should absolutely be on the radar and a lil event coming to the South East corner in just under a decade presents a unique opportunity for the NRL to align interests.
Already in the name: Why sending the Tigers west makes the best sense for NRL expansion
A whole generation has grown up with the West Tigers. They just need to be clear about their identity (difficult now with their Concord development) and fully embrace the south west where the potential lies.
Pre the Olympics venue review, Sunshine Coast Stadium was set to increase its permanent seating capacity to 12k with a full capacity of 16k. Temporary seating would expand this 20k for the Olympics soccer. With the facility review rumored to recommend a more regional focus, it’s unlikely the planned development will be scaled back and if anything could be scaled up. The Olympics presents a prime opportunity for the NRL to work with the state government to set up its SEQ footprint for the future and the Sunshine Coast should be apart of their vision for the region.
Advocating for that ‘temporary’ seating to become permanent and possibly adding another 2-5k to the plan isn’t exactly outlandish. As well as delivering an Olympics-ready venue in the State’s third largest city (and the country’s 9th), it clears a significant hurdle for the NRL to make an entrance to the Sunshine Coast in 8-10 years.
Already in the name: Why sending the Tigers west makes the best sense for NRL expansion
I can stomach Adelaide. It’s a place that should be on the radar for future expansion, although I would just get to Perth as a matter of priority and give that the time it needs to become embedded as a team outside the traditional heartland. Tassie is fanciful though. I agree PNG and NZ2 should be in the same bucket for the reasons listed and more, but Tassie needs to be right there with them.
I also don’t mind the idea of relocating Sydney teams, but I’m not totally sold on it though. Sydney could use a tidy-up, but relocations can be tricky. I’d just give Perth its own team and the Tigers need to embrace the South West/Macarthur region as their true home. Forget Liverpool stadiums, that’s Dogs territory. Let them go after that and instead push for a Campbelltown refurb.
While tinkering with Sydney, shift the Dragons to the Gong full time then bring back the Bears on the Central Coast- the only part of Sydney that should be considered for a new team. That’s 18 which should cover bases for the time being. Then SEQ should be the focus when the times right to go to 20. I agree the Sunshine Coast is a logical choice as QLD’s next team and another regional hub in Toowoomba should come into consideration in the years to come. Both places are inline for stadium upgrades for the Olympics (or were pre stadium review) and committing NRL teams in these locations around or just after 2032 will ensure these investments provide a legacy.
This 20 team comp provides more appropriate coverage of Sydney while maintaining the brands that represent the games heritage. It provides more representation of the country’s fastest growing region in SEQ with 5 teams (half the number of Sydney) in and either side of Brisbane. It delivers full time NRL to large and growing heartland regions while the game finally adopts its 2nd team in a ‘non-traditional’ but promising market in Perth.
The other thing most of these clubs/locations bring that places like PNG/NZ2 don’t so much is a crowd/interest when playing existing teams. Bringing back the Bears would be a good thing for all teams in and around Sydney while additional teams in QLD is a positive for the 4 teams there too.
Already in the name: Why sending the Tigers west makes the best sense for NRL expansion
The point that you are unable to grasp is that I’m not defending the strategy!! How many times do I have to say words to that effect?
How about you go up and actually read the original comment that you’ve replied to. It very clearly identifies one positive side-effect this year and a long list of challenges (‘reality checks’) that the NRL faces in achieving the traction it desires in the States.
I’ve framed this increased east coast coverage as a by-product eg. Not the primary strategic objective. Given (again) that I don’t believe the strategy will achieve what it actually targets, do I believe this by-product makes it worthwhile? No! Never said that.
What’s irrelevant in the context of this discussion and the intent of the original comment is whether it’s maintained for the next 4 years or not. It was a single positive observation- nothing more. Your suggestion that it will ‘fail to back up’ is nothing more than an assumption (clouded by a clear distaste for a sport that you know little about) but again- it doesn’t even matter.
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
Generally I don’t think you possess the ability to see much beyond the end of your own nose, so your rich and compelling assessments are filed under ‘pot/kettle exchanges’.
Your original quote:
‘The only discernible additional “cost” to what the AFL are doing is annoying a few people in Victoria by doing something different’
So, what you originally framed as having a ‘discernible additional cost’, now has no ‘material detrimental effect’. For a fan of a sport with an additional two goal posts at each end- you’re pretty good at moving them!
You’re also a bit of a world champ at putting words in people’s mouths too:
‘To suggest the NRL has an equivalent strategy with the US is laughable’
Where did I suggest it was ‘an equivalent strategy’? I don’t think the Suns/Giants play had much to do with cracking a new gambling market. While one strategy has only just been employed (as unlikely as it may appear, it’s still too early to judge) and one has been pumped for 15 years, the similarity is that neither has realised an ROI. What’s laughable is if this is all about pretending the AFL’s entries into the Gold Coast and Western Sydney could be considered anything close to a success.
I’ve also very clearly said the NRL’s Vegas experiment has drawn in all the ‘coverage’ and ‘attention’. There’s a constant PR battle between the two major football codes and I made the observation that the NRL has clearly won it on the east coast for the last couple of weeks thanks to the Vegas expedition. That’s all I’ve suggested in this boring and repetitive chain with you (nothing about ticket sales) and anything else you’ve read into all on your own. There were more people in Allegiant Stadium on the weekend than there will be in most if not all AFL stadiums this weekend, but I don’t believe the NRL was headlining the local Vegas bulletin last night.
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
‘And when discussing football in America it is more than the MLS. Those other sports are usually just one competition only’
I’m sorry but that just isn’t correct. Have you ever heard of this little body called the NCAA and what they get up to before? It’s kinda a big deal- particularly in Football which would be head, shoulders and knees above the MLS by all fan metrics. In addition to their respective college presences, the G League in basketball and the minors in baseball also suggest that these sports are so so so much more than their elite leagues.
Yea soccers grown and has a strong presence in the States now. But the ‘big 4’ term exists for a reason and soccer doesn’t make that cut.
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
Yea that bucket of rocks seems to be the marketing department’s favourite tool. Came in handy when promoting SOO to the croweaters…
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
And none of that stopped Biden using the name of a British military force to refer to them in a speech in Ireland when thanking Rob Kearney for a tie…
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
Why ‘hold fire’? It (mass media coverage of the Vegas foray on the east coast) is a real thing happening right now. As for your musings on whether it’s maintained or not, it’s pure speculation.
I never said the AFL was hoping to ‘drown out the Broncos in Vegas’. I’m sure they were hoping for some lead-in publicity from their east coast-centric kick off though and the reality is they’re getting none. Why bother otherwise- as you yourself have admitted, it’s had some sort of a detrimental effect in Victoria.
While I don’t believe this investment will see the NRL unlock the US market with treasure trove of fortunes to follow, there is revenue generating opportunity that might not pull the exercise into black, but will at least go some way towards subsiding it and not make it the deep financial pit you seem desperate to make it out to be.
Again, I’ve said what’s happening isn’t the primary objective that the NRL is hoping to achieve. They have clear strategy and goals in mind (as misguided as you and I believe them to be) and it’s way too early to make calls on whether they’ve been a success or not. Just like nobody expected Western Sydney and the Gold Coast to be turning a profit before a ball had been kicked in those places. And of course there’s been no pressure applied on the AFL over the years (15 long ones here on the GC) around the suitability of those ‘sustained long term investments’ has there…?
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
This implies that the average American punter knows what the All Blacks are. I think you’ll find most (not all) haven’t a clue.
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
Define ‘significant risk’? Look, I’m not sold on the idea myself as you may have noticed from the original comment that you replied to. But I don’t think it’s going to do much harm. And as mentioned, one side effect is a kick off that’s drawing in all the attention in at least QLD (and I’m guessing NSW). That being the case, it probably wasn’t the best year for the AFL to play 4 games in rugby league heartland a week early as their unique spin on round 1. It might be a cost neutral exercise but it was clearly done as some sort of ploy to drum up interest in those non-traditional states and I can confirm from SEQ that any AFL news (including their season opening in ‘enemy territory’) has been drowned out.
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
Who knows.
I’m not sure it is ‘a big issue’ though either.
As touched on in the initial comment, it’s not really the goal of the Vegas foray so whether it’s maintained or not probably is neither here nor there for the NRL.
In any event, Magic Round has only picked up steam since the NRL introduced it as somewhat of a gimmick that it borrowed from the Super League (and I believe another local code has adopted it here too). It wouldn’t be out of this world to believe the number of Aussies being tempted by the bright lights of Vegas continues to grow as the years roll on. I’m sure that phenomenon will edge it towards becoming cost neutral (if it isn’t already with 40k Australians there atm).
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
Yea the ‘granted, I’m in QLD’ was more-or-less an admission that it’s probably doing little/nothing outside the east coast in non-league states which you’ve confirmed.
I genuinely had no idea what was happening for the AFL opening other than it was in some way different and I was pretty sure it started next week. I’ve got no idea what the AFL is hoping to achieve but my comment was simply an observation that coverage here (including sources beyond Ch 9 Brisbane) has been fixated on Vegas for the last few weeks and nothing else has really had a look in.
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
It’ll be interesting to see where it gets to in 5 years and it’s great that the NRL have got themselves into a position where it can do something like this.
On the positives, this little foray into Vegas has been a win in terms of the attention it’s generated in Australia. Granted I’m in QLD but the AFL’s kick off next week (and I believe they’re doing something out of the ordinary for that too) has been a total non-event in terms of coverage. With that, the start of Super Rugby and Australia playing cricket in a somewhat favourable timezone across the ditch, the Vegas kick off has sucked in all the oxygen across the landscape (at least on the east coast). Although that wasn’t the primary goal- it’s certainly been a positive side effect.
In the reality check column, I’ve got family either side of Vegas in the Bay Area and DFW and both clusters have heard diddly about what’s going on at Allegiant Stadium this weekend. I’d expect it to be the same outside Vegas and even there is would be minor news. The NBA gets the spotlight now. March madness is a few weeks away. From my regular but distant consumption of US sports media it seems that Connor Bedard has given hockey a boost. And with the Super Bowl and National Championship done, the American Football world goes into two pretty intense months of discussions on draft prospects with mock drafts just about everywhere you turn. The XFL and USFL merger and the rise of flag football presents more challenges for the NRL getting a look-in too.
I know the angle here was ‘gambling’ which made Vegas the logical choice, but in terms of attempting to attract local fan engagement, it’s probably the worst place to be showcasing what you have to offer given what you’re competing against. There’s obviously no shortage of entertainment options on the strip and if you’re struggling to find something to do there on a Saturday night (when the games will be on there), you’re not doing Vegas right. Again, logical as global ground zero for betting and also for attracting fans from home- but if a goal is to get a foothold in the US market, Vegas as a host venue would be at the bottom of the list.
There is a bit of a vibe of the Simpson’s Australian episode in all of this where there’s ’closed’ signs on Subways that are selling vegemite subs. We are so insignificant in eyes of the world’s mass cultural exporter and trying to send something back their way to influence their behaviours and consumption is almost impossible. The Los Angeles Kings and Phoenix Coyotes played a few exhibition games in Melbourne a few months back which caused a bit of a ripple on the local sporting landscape here. That’s even with the global brand behemoth that the NHL is (in comparison to the NRL) when having a play at a market that’s less than a tenth the size of their own. Given those realities I would imagine the NRL cut-through there would be equivalent to that divided by about 20.
I also don’t know that the NFL’s London Series success in comparison to NFL Europe is on the back of things like ‘repeated efforts’. It was a completely different strategy and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that the Jacksonville Jaguars vs New York Jets might sell a bit stronger than the London Monarchs vs Barcelona Dragons.
If the NRL want to win over America, what happens in Vegas has to stay there all year around
I’m not sure how many teams would consider a defensive lineout deep in their redzone ‘very little downside’. Under the existing rules it’s still a pretty common option (kick to touch) and I haven’t observed many defending teams being too psyched about it. It’s just not a place (your own goal line) teams want to be playing rugby- even those with a dominant lineout. Sure it takes away an option from the attacking team, but I wouldn’t expect a consistent trend to emerge across the game where defending teams willingly put themselves in this position.
WR's mooted law changes are great - but show there's a hell of a lot wrong with rugby in 2024, and that sucks