The Roar
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sheek

Roar Guru

Joined May 2007

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A former rugby lock, cricket no.11 bat and no.10 bowler, and surfboat rower. A fan of the major team sports in Australia.

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Roar Guru
Roar Guru

When is an Aussie really an Aussie?

Ben Ryan, the English coach of the Fijian rugby sevens gold medal winning team at the Rio Olympics, caused quite a stir recently with his caustic observations of how the Pacific Islands were being effectively ‘stripped’ by the major rugby union powers.

Soapit – If I understood what you just said I might respond!!!

Why rugby is moving towards league

AndyS,

The world is full of delicious ironies.

Let’s say you had a merged 20 club national comp today.

Waratahs would get a gig as one of say 10 Sydney clubs.

Reds & Rebels would each get a gig as second club in each of Brisbane & Melbourne.

Force & Falcons might prevail as only clubs in Perth & Adelaide.

The one unknown is whether the Brumbies would punt the Raiders from Canberra. Or one of them relocate. Brumbies certainly have the better (more Aussie) nickname.

So, at best, 6 rugby union clubs out of 20 clubs total. At, worst 5 or maybe fewer.

Why rugby is moving towards league

Red Rob,

We can’t imagine how sport is going to change, & whether for the better or worse.

I would say worse only because I knew sport as being entirely different when I was young. Not necessarily better, but I was comfortable with the way it was.

I don’t understand many of the changes today. E-sports, which I don’t know much about, is now a big deal apparently.

Why rugby is moving towards league

Soapit,

Things will change in ways we can’t imagine.

Who would have believed just 20 years ago the biggest money pulling competition in Australian cricket (BBL) would be basically about….. nothing!

Why rugby is moving towards league

They could certainly try, a la AFL.

Why rugby is moving towards league

Just as an addendum,

Anyone who thinks sport has any remaining independence is seriously deluded.

Once a sport becomes professional & is dependent, make that slave-dependent, to revenue streams, it is a business like any other business.

The idea that we could escape the weekly grind by following our favourite sporting teams on the weekend, is lost.

Business now owns us 24/7. Even our leisure time now belongs to business. They tell us what to watch, when to watch it, how to watch it, why to watch it.

Why rugby is moving towards league

The NRL may have no choice if rugby league worldwide agrees to merge with rugby union.

In any case, as I’ve pointed out, the merge will almost probably be driven by commercial interests.

You know, those people on corporations & governing bodies who you are always defending.

They will be the “pushers”.

Why rugby is moving towards league

JOX,

I’m just expressing an opinion, I’m not a sage.

I’m just saying commercial interests will eventually force a merger. What kind of rugby we end up with I can only guess at.

Why rugby is moving towards league

Cookie,

It was a throwaway line mostly, but who knows.

I think commercial pressures will bring the codes together. Money almost always wins, due to human greed, much to my eternal disgust.

Why rugby is moving towards league

Nick,

I think eventually union & league will merge. It might be a coming together of laws/rules or simply demanded by commercial interests. There are still a few minor yet significant decisions to be made.

Like, does the game stop when a player is tackled & whether you keep the extra two forwards? The pace of the modern game may suggest we go to the play the ball rule (even if it only provides momentary relief), but still have line outs & semi genuine scrums.

The only modern rugby I enjoy is played by Kiwi sides. Overall, I believe league has become a more consistent, better spectacle, despite the accusation of 5 tackles then kick, or rugby lite.

Why rugby is moving towards league

Adam,

Perhaps you didn’t notice that I wasn’t talking about a national comp, but two separate state comps.

It’s not the same thing.

Joey and Freddie are right: There are too many teams in Sydney

Thanks Max,

And all the same to you!

Joey and Freddie are right: There are too many teams in Sydney

BigDaddy,

They’ve also got the Bridge hotel (app. where the leagues club used to be), which is one of the few remaining pubs for rollicking live bands in Sydney.

Joey and Freddie are right: There are too many teams in Sydney

Or simply add another regional team & make it an 18 team comp.

Forget about Adelaide & Perth for the moment.

Joey and Freddie are right: There are too many teams in Sydney

Damn it, I forgot Melbourne Storm.

Maybe Melbourne can fit into the NSW comp in place of one of the country teams.

Don’t care about NZ, they can have their own comp.

Joey and Freddie are right: There are too many teams in Sydney

I say stuff the NRL! In fact, let’s go fully retro.

Let’s go back to separate NSW & Queensland comps, with both operating under the same salary caps. Maybe you could argue Sydney gets a bit more for being a bit bigger, but not much more.

Also keep the state of origin so players aren’t inhibited about playing in Queensland, even though they qualify for NSW.

NSW state comp (including ACT):

Balmain Tigers

Canberra Raiders

Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

Central Coast Jets (or Bluebags)

Central North (NSW) Bulls

Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks

East Sydney Roosters

Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles

Newcastle Knights

North Sydney Bears

Parramatta Eels

Penrith Panthers

Riverina-Bidgee (NSW) Rams

St. George-Illawarra Dragons

South Sydney Rabbitohs

West Sydney Tigers

Queensland comp:

Brisbane Brothers

Central Queensland Capras

Darling Downs Clydesdales

East Brisbane Tigers

FNQ (Cairns) Pride

Fortitude Valley Diehards

Gold Coast Titans

Ipswich Jets

Logan-Kingston Scorpions

North Brisbane Devils

North Queensland Cowboys

Redcliffe Dolphins

South Brisbane Magpies

West Brisbane Panthers

Wynnum-Manly Seagulls

16 teams in each comp, 10 metro & 6 regional. Also have a super-grand final between the respective NSW & Qld premiers.

Done!

Joey and Freddie are right: There are too many teams in Sydney

Chris,

It’s true Sheffield Shield struggles for interest.

But is it any wonder when the leading players are rarely seen? What’s the point of a premier domestic comp when so few of the top 20-25 players are missing most games?

if you want to destroy a domestic comp, this is precisely how you do it, by removing the cream of its players.

Imagine for a nano-second, if the AFL, to prove my argument, removed the top 50 players from the Premiership Cup for the entire season. It would still go okay, but nowhere near as successfully without its best 50 players.

It wasn’t that many years ago the marketeers were apparently sprouting, & perhaps the administrators hoping, that Sheffield Shield would be dead by 2018, & test players could successfully use BBL as a preparation stage for test cricket.

Nah!

What genuine cricket fans have always known, those not caught up in hype, that test cricket & Sheffield Shield go hand in hand. Even the Indians, who liked abandoning test cricket a decade ago with their obsession firstly with 50 overs cricket, then T20, now realise the importance of the Ranji Trophy to their test cricketers.

My point has always been this, & I use these figures purely for the sake of the argument.

Instead of CA seeking 100% revenue & perhaps 60% welfare/wellbeing from its illogical domestic structure, why not aim for 90% revenue & 90% welfare/wellbeing.

It’s what’s known as an old fashioned win-win scenario. Give up a little in one direction to win more in another direction.

Structurally, it means accepting the SS must be run concurrently with test cricket, wherever you wish to place it in the season. BBL then gets its own slot, either prime time, or somewhere else less optimal prime time.

But running test cricket & BBL both concurrently in prime time, will eventually seriously impact on the quality of test cricket, & perhaps also do BBL no favours either in the long run.

Yes, the BBL is slightly long. But does it matter?

Nick,

Great stuff & I hope later I can further read other responses.

I always thought if I were a high level coach, or even a schoolboy coach, I wouldn’t be smart enough to think of complicated long-term strategies & game-day tactics.

I would concentrate on just two fundamental things:

1. Excellent overall basic skills & techniques honed through constant repetition.

2. Situation awareness development allowing players to see & grasp opportunities as the occur in the moment.

You might say this is the “Kiwi way”, & on the evidence of the past decade, it works much more often than not.

There is a lot to be said of the ‘KISS’ methodology.

Sliding doors: Wallaby lessons from the 2001 Lions tour

So David,

If BBL form is not proving the silver bullet in providing test cricket with the appropriate form of test players, why do we persist with this scheduling (it’s a rhetorical question; answer is money, money, money).

And whoever were the geniuses who supposed that BBL form would suffice for test cricket preparation?????

Humanity really is incredibly stupid…..

Yes, the BBL is slightly long. But does it matter?

Obviously, it’s not long if you’re looking for a babysitter, or are incapable of entertaining yourself…..

Yes, the BBL is slightly long. But does it matter?

Chris,

This is why it’s important to have integrity in your life. Someone will always criticise you for something you do. But if you do it for the right moral reasons, then criticism is immaterial.

CA is putting “profits before people”. So naturally they’re going to attract criticism, & it’s difficult to defend their position, because while it’s a ‘profit maximum’ position, it’s not a ‘welfare maximum’ position.

There are much more people in cricket to consider than just the 250-odd professional cricketers in Australia, & the God-knows-how-many suits at HQ.

BBL triple treat has to be the future of scheduling

Sorry Josh,

This is a rubbish suggestion. Apart from money, why?

Very rarely does the winner come outside the top 4. How’s top 10 going to make it better than top 8 except fill the AFL coffers, which are already overflowing.

This is such a millennium idea, give everyone a prize. I know, let’s have an 18 team finals play-off. Everybody gets to win something….. like just showing up in the first finals week…..

The AFL is ready for a ten-team finals series

AndyS – please be my guest.

Alignment and centralisation: Sounds great, but will it work for Wallabies?

Okay Machooka, I’ll pay that.

BBL triple treat has to be the future of scheduling

Christo,

“BBL will always be in January to coincide with school holidays”.

No, incorrect. Apart from death & taxes, everything else is subject to change.

BBL didn’t exist in 2010. Boxing Day tests weren’t regular until 1980, with the exception of 1989.

Sooner than you or I think, CA must address its lopsided domestic scheduling. Too many key figures in cricket are questioning why it is the way it is.

CA might have to face a situation that what is “maximum revenue” is not “maximum benefit” for long-term well-being of Australian cricket.

Already it is becoming clear that the ridiculous notion that BBL would work as a form guide for test selection is being disproven. Test cricket needs Sheffield Shield.

Also, the boast by marketeers in 2015 that Sheffield Shield would be dead by 2018 hasn’t happened. Test cricket needs Sheffield Shield.

India have realised the same thing. As valuable a money spinner as IPL is, they need the Ranji Trophy to continue producing quality test players.

As this fact dawns on more & more people, things will need to change.

So nothing is forever, everything is subject to change. Some times, or many times, unfortunately so.

BBL triple treat has to be the future of scheduling