Why are we so worried about attendances?
Periodically we see some concern over the state of certain attendance figures in Australia's various football codes, and it's time some of these critics…
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The AFL didnt get Adelaide Oval. Its a state government asset, and used by other sports and events.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
The AFL has the right to demand whatever it wants if someone wants a license to compete in its private competition. Tasmania didnt have to comply.
Thats a fact.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
They have been trying to fix things for a couple of years, but havent really covered themselves in glory at this point. They increased funding a few years back.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
its going to be multi use
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
In terms of ongoing funding, the Tasmanian government has promised to provide $12 million a year for 12 years — a total of $144 million — plus $60 million to establish a high-performance complex.
In exchange, The AFL has also announced its own $360 million funding package for the new team.
That includes the stadium contribution and a $209 million funding commitment for the new club.
It also involves $10 million towards the high-performance complex, $33 million towards junior development and a $93 million funding boost for grassroots football.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
Cost of an AFL team to run IS relevant to the stadium deal they can get, which in turn is affected by things like the share of the revenue from reserved seating and corporate box revenues.
See the difference between revenue streams from WA clubs at Optus compared to every other club in the league as the definitive example of this.
“Corporate facilities do not matter to attract sponsors. TV matters.”
In the AFL, attendance matters. The league generates more income from non broadcast revenue at the moment than it does from broadcast rights. AFL clubs as a whole generate more money from match returns and memberships than they do from the AFLs rights distributions.
Relationship between sponsors and corporate hospitality is pretty tight, but in general corporate hospitality if done right is a big earner with the right stadium deal.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
Cost of running your average AFL team is close – at a minimum is about 50m per year now – and thats with significant AFL funding. Mclachan said previously the league benchmarked it on 45m and they didnt believe Tasmania could raise that for one team…this was like 5 years ago
Tasmania is currently paying 7m per year for two teams to play 7-8 games with no home base, no training facilities, no administration, no reserves or any of the the other things that come with running a proffessional sporting club.
In the business world we would also probably accept real world consultants and economists reports that the Tasmanian Government will more than make its 375m investment back over the 30-50 year lifespan predicted for the stadium, over fear mongering from the likes of the Greens and Labor
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
The AFL isnt running an Aleague or NRL team. Costs for an AFL team to operate are much higher.
And regardless, corporate facilities matter if you want to attract events and sponsors.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
Thats why the Government promotes things themselves by paying acts and events to come down.
Its how its done everywhere else too.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
1. The question didnt have to be asked at all. Every AFL administration since the early 80s has quueried the financial viability of a team in the state. It wasnt until Gutwein and co volunteered a new stadium and UTAS upgrades and 10m a year in funding that this became somewhat acceptable to the league.
2. The AFL is not and never has been a charity. The Commission has to go where they believe the potential for growing both the game and revenue is. Two of the three largest states commercially, politically and economically made sense at the time.
3. The Apple Isle doesnt have two perfect AFL stadiums. It has an adequate one- that has room to be improved and an outdated one, that has no room to be updated to an acceptable standard. The only reason these are currently acceptable is the temporary nature of the events – North and Hawthorn fly in and then fly out millions of dollars richer for the experience.
4. Given the AFL didnt want a team, and this entire process was an unsolicited bid by the Tasmanian Government – and even if that wasnt the case – the AFL has every right to set the criteria and requirements for licenses in its competition.
5. Carrara had to be completely rebuilt – the old stadium was demolished except for the light towers. Sydney showground did only need an upgrade to an acceptable standard for not just AFL, but also BBL matches. But bear in mind this was well before COVID, and in areas that are also much cheaper to build, and over 10 years ago – things simply cost more now too.
6. The new stadium wasnt even an AFL idea. It was first proposed by the Tasmanian Government appointed Taskforce as one of its core recommendations to the Tasmanian Government in 2019, saying that Bellerive was ok temporarily, it was going to need replacing with a new stadium.
7. And with that the new Stadium was part of the Governments proposal to the AFL. And thats the proposal the AFL won the consent of the clubs with.
8. The AFL probably didnt want it to happen originally, but once the Tasmanian Government delivered a good proposal that the AFL and the clubs could sign off on, they did. The AFL has NEVER taken an unsolicited bid for a team in its entire existence.
9. The AFL might be aware of the housing crisis. It is strictly speaking, not something the AFL in particular has to care about, what with Housing and Health infrastructure not exactly being part of its constitutional responsibilities. If the Government wanted to fund that sort of thing it would have been done, with or without a stadium. As it stands now, the Tasmanian Government is commited to $375m + operating costs for a venue with a projected lifespan of 30-50 years. Federal money wasnt coming for Tasmanian homeless projects on its own, nor was AFL money.
10. You spoke earlier about the perception of “misinformed” Tasmanians. These would be the ones buying into the hyperbole being spread by the Greens and a Labor party desperate to be relevant – and at odds with Federal Labor it would seem.
Change is hard for some. Malcontents have protested every other stadium development of late for a wide variety of reasons, Adelaide Oval in particular had to deal with an unwilling incumbent tenant, and a SANFL that already owned a venue it wanted upgraded as well as the friends of the Adelaide Parklands and the North Adelaide residents – and where are those critics now?
There is every reason to believe that the same economic impact will be delivered by a new Hobart stadium that has been felt in Adelaide and Perth, by the same supporters of the same sports (AFL and Cricket).
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one
its worth noting that this year AFL revenue jumped to 944m – thats just HQ revenue. Combined League and club revenues jumped 23% last year to more than $1.7b
How can the AFL arrest plummeting attendances?
Not really, the total content hours viewed by fans favours the AFL- 316m to 224m and that figure includes Origin and rep figures.
How can the AFL arrest plummeting attendances?
You just have to convince the Saints members.
If we're moving a team to Tassie, St Kilda are the obvious candidate
I really dont care if you trust them or not. Im citing club registrations not the general participation numbers from the reports and even the all revered Ausplay stats dont agree with the FFV position.
The football community is its own worst enemy – but it doesn't have to be
To get real crowd trouble…you have to get real crowds.
The football community is its own worst enemy – but it doesn't have to be
” More people in Victoria play football than AFL, yet we see a fraction of the funding”.
There is not really any data to support the idea that more people play football than AFL in Victoria.
Registration and participation data from both codes as published by them has the AFL way out in front. Just on club registrations alone, there are almost three times the players and clubs – 180,000 registered players at more than 1200 AFL clubs compared to 69,000 at almost 400 football clubs .
Oh I know I know, the AFL is misleading etc etc etc – and I have quoted either codes participation data here. Ausplay survey data gives the participation nod to the AFL 373,000 to 333,000 – the AFL with way more kids (160,000 to 99,000) but more adults playing football (233,000 to 212,00)
The football community is its own worst enemy – but it doesn't have to be
Craig Bradley played for SA and Victoria and junior Australian teams.
The AFL's cricketing first XI
1991. West Coast v Hawthorn was played at Waverly Park due to Southern Stand construction.
SCG to host NRL grand final as Greenberg snubs Brisbane
The fundamental problem is this – Champion Data is a business. They make money from their data. The more data they release for free, the less valuable they believe their data is.
Oztam has the same problem – but worse. Cant publish the publicly released tv ratings data in any kind of format without paying for a subscription (20k a year).
Footy fans aren't worthy of access to stats? Give us a spell, AFL
1. The VFL itself wasnt insolvent, clubs were.
2. License fees werent the only thing that saved the VFL clubs, although the West Coast and Brisbane ones helped. Of far greater benefit was the tv deal signed at the end of 1987 for 4 times the amount.
3. The AFL makes as much if not more money from non broadcast income than it does broadcast income in most years.
4. AFL broadcast deals are more dependent on Victorian viewers than all other states put together, given Victorians make up more than half the audience, and their advertising market value is several times that of the other states. Do some research.
5. There are currently 2-3 of 9 clubs dependent on AFL largesse at the moment, and a good part of that is due to AFL fixturing and marketing polices, as well as being forced into agreements they have no control over.
5. Whatever players may have come in from other states after 1973, the vast majority of players in the competition were still Victorian. Hell even today, more than half the draftees come from Victorian clubs, including the TAC Cup.
Tasmania needs a team in the AFL
You mean the interstate clubs established specifically to enter the VFL/AFL to stop actual existing state clubs from leaving to join the VFL/AFL? WA was so desperate they even caved to every demand the VFL made.
Where the players come from doesnt change the fact the comp was the “real” VFL.
Financially speaking NONE of the state comps was doing great 30 years ago – in the mid to late 80s, the WAFL was fully bailed out by the WA Government, 7 VFL clubs were almost broke, 9 SANFL clubs reported massive losses.
Tasmania needs a team in the AFL
speaking of not including the regional data – AFL regionals in NSW came in at 3 times the NRL regionals in Victoria. Its also worth noting that the NRL was on the primary 9 channel in Melbourne, whereas the AFL was on a secondary channel into Sydney.
The NRL is falling behind the AFL
Where the Grand Final is held has no bearing on the makeup of the league.
Expansion didnt save Carlton. We were perfectly fine in 1986 thanks.
And Expansion didnt save anyone after the Bears and Eagles came in, the 30m tv deal did that at the end of 1987. The saving clubs thing was done and dusted before the Crows came in 1991.
Sooner the non victorian clubs and their supporters remember they joined a league with a hundred year tradition of holding a grand final at the MCG, the sooner we can put this to rest. Its worth noting that we still hand out the Brownlow, Coleman and Norm Smith medals, as well as the McLellan Trophy – all VFL traditions.
They can also remember that most of the leagues support, tv audiences, matchday attendance, members, and sponsorship is due to Victorians.
The AFL's grand final plan is a slap in the face to 45% of fans
Lets not forget that this isnt 1986. The league is no longer broke and doesnt particuarly need anyone at the minute. you can always start your own competition.
Tasmania made a bid neither wanted nor required by the league. The league has every right to set the conditions for that license to be awarded – as it has for every license it has ever awarded.
Tasmania doesn't need a new stadium - shame on the AFL for forcing us into building one