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The Roar

ThugbyFan

Roar Guru

Joined February 2016

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Rugby tragic who asked mum what the score was at moment of birth. Best match ever = Sydney Olympic Stadium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heoO_5MvZ0w

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Hoy, I fully agree with you. 🙂

VOTE: Wallabies DIY Rugby World Cup player ratings vs Georgia

They still have M.Hooper and A.Coleman in the reserves. 🙁

I.Rodda was awesome throughout the whole 80 minutes, I gave him an 8 and captain D,Pocock a 7. M.Toomua played really well for a 6, The new Golden Child J.Petaia just never really got in the game and got a 4, similar to S.Kerevi who also got a 4.

A shame K.Beale got a HIA and out as I wanted to see if he had learned how to catch a high kick in rotten weather, even if the Georgia kick n chasers would be nowhere the class/danger/accuracy of the England blokes.

As for the WB team I pretty much agree with Openside’s starters except for 3 positions;
(a) J.Dempsey instead of LSL who is almost a spectator at breakdowns and WB would get killed against the T.Curry and S.Underhill jackals. Dempsey is pretty good at lineouts also and is a faster runner than LSL.
(b) J.Petaia just isn’t ready yet, coach Cheika (and most teams) have at least 2 wing/fb as cover so I would go for R.Hodge for experience and his boot
(c) The Double-K centre pairing just doesn’t work as S.Kerevi plays more as an outside centre and never passes the pill. I would have JOC at #12 and play Kerevi or T.Kuridrani at #13, similar to O.Farrell and M.Tuilaga. Kerevi and JOC often swap to keep the defence and attack guessing, but Kerevi’s best games I have seen were when he was outside centre. Also Kerevi has done a lot of defending outside JOC and has done fine. Am happy if Kuridrani is at #13 instead. Whoever misses out is on the bench covering wingers and centres.

For the bench, J.Slipper or S.Kepu both have good qualities as reserve LH so am not fussed who gets the gig.

VOTE: Wallabies DIY Rugby World Cup player ratings vs Georgia

So Shirley, imagine if the BIL had scored a winning play/kick in the very last second of all three games. The scoreboard would read the BIL had a magnificently successful tour with three hard-fought test match victories to zero, and on NZ soil.

And all we would hear on the Roar is “they only led the AB for 3 whole seconds in the entire series” 🙂

The Wrap: Red, yellow, green - rugby’s ‘traffic light’ World Cup

BB and Geoff, wrt the O.Farrell incident it was plain to see that Farrell was affected and I am not simply equating missed place kicks as proof of concussion, although it was a pointer. He was lost about the field and playing off memory for the rest of the 1st half. He seemed to have improved while in the sheds as he was more aware around the field in the 2nd half.

Totally agree with Corne that incidents like that should be an automatic HIA. I mentioned in the blog at half time that he shouldn’t play the 2nd half, it was really apparent. I would love WR to demand reasons from the England management as to why he was not dragged off for a HIA immediately after Lavanini’s hit on him.

I’ve seen plenty of blokes lost in a concussed fog but staying on “for the team”, some I knew reckoned you were a kitty kat if you came off injured unless it was a bone break. In the 60-70’s I played both rugby union and league schools, juniors and grade. Those days it was limited replacements and you could add stiff arms, ruck “badges of honour”, punches and pile driver tackles to the normal injuries we see today; it was a common thing to see blokes staying on the field often staggering into their position trying to clear their head.

To me, it looked like Farrell was concussed but showing his bravado for the team.

The Wrap: Red, yellow, green - rugby’s ‘traffic light’ World Cup

DA, read the title. It says “The WB Team that can trouble ENGLAND”.

R.Hodge was suspended for 3 matches, so he misses the Wales, Uruguay and Georgia matches and is available for the QF. 🙂

The Wallabies team that can trouble England

I would say that D.Pocock is having a lesser effect as pilferer simply because of what the referees are allowing at the rucks. The gate doesn’t exist and the law requiring you can only touch the ball BEFORE an opponent arrives to form a ruck has blunted Pocock’s efficiency. He isn’t quick enough to get to the tackled player before the troops arrive. Also for the last couple of years the referees has allowed big ruck protectors to fall all over the tackled player and seal off the ball. In most cases the blokes who are getting pilfers are those fast enough (legs AND brain), to be first over the tackled player. Pilfers in the middle usually are because the tackled player lands within a metre or close to a strong ruck monkey or the tackler is fast enough to let go, get up and grab the ball. This is where S.Cane and A.Savea, patrolling both sides of the muddy middle, really come into play.

Please note I am not picking on the AB in this example as England, France and SA all do the same. I watched parts of the NZ slaughter of Namibia yesterday. In one case a Namibia player makes a good run and is brought down about 5m from the AB line. S.Whitelock strolls up and joins the ruck at an angle of around 120° and wins the ball. Referee pays the pilfer, WTF???? Even worse in the WB vs Uruguay match, the TMO (B.Skeens) had to explain to the French referee what offside in a ruck is (Uruguay had a try disallowed because of the offside). The French referee had absolutely NO idea.

Back to the AB match; in another section of play just before Ta’avao’s try, for near 4 minutes the AB take the ball into 14 tackles (I actually counted them during play), 1 breakdown was an uncontested ruck and the ball quickly passed, 1 had the support players correctly on their feet and the other 12 rucks all had arriving players instantly going on their knees as they fall over the ruck, legs spread allowing the ball to come through to the ½back. Now admittedly only in 2 of those cases was a Namibia player down early to contest for the ball and was swatted away by cleanouts, but 12/14 of those breakdowns were illegal and allowed by the ref. Now how the f*^%#$%k can an opposing player compete for, ruck over or even hope to get at the ball.

WR now sees it has a problem. Teams just fan out their defence and wait because unless a rare chance arrives, it is practically impossible to win ball against a well organised pack. The dunderheads at WR instead now want to make Rugby similar to NRL-lite by bringing in 50-22 kicks to force players out of the defence line. A decent field kicker like O.Farrell, J.Sexton or H.Pollard will think all their Xmases have come at once. This would turn a match into a lineout maul-a-thon or a penalty shootout.

Will Carling was dead right when he said the IRB/WR is just a gang of useless gin-swilling old farts.

VOTE: Wallabies DIY Rugby World Cup player ratings vs Uruguay

I would be inclined to start M.Toomua at inside centre and either S.Kerevi or T.Kuridrani outside him. Even England have realised having a play-maker passing inside centre (O.Farrell) is a much better option than a bulky crash-carrier (M.Tuilaga) and I honestly think the WB should be thinking along the same lines. At the Reds S.Kerevi has mostly played outside centre with a playmaker such as D.Paia’Aua inside feeding him. It gives Kerevi more space so he is more dangerous although at international level he has been found out in defence at #13 position so maybe the TK-train is the better option and bring on Kerevi off the bench. Also the ½ roles of a White starter and Genia finisher seems to work much better than starting with two-step Will giving the fresh opposition rush defence a 1-2 metre head start.

For mine a backline of N.White, CLL, M.Koroibete, M.Toomua, T.Kuridrani, R.Hodge and DHP starting with a bench of W.Genia, S.Kerevi and K.Beale is a more dangerous but also safer option. All positions are covered in case of injuries. I like the way that Toomua’s direct running has given the WB yards over the gain line. It’s a shame that JOC and M.Toomua weren’t given more time to sort out which of them blends in best with SK or TK but until 2019 our esteemed coach would not go past the weak-tackling duo of #10 B.Foley and #12 K.Beale.

Of the forwards, T.Tupou has never gone well when he has started, in fact the last couple of times that I can remember he was schooled by his LH opponent. Add that A.Alaalatoa has been scrumming pretty good and killing it around the field and I would leave the THP as is. AAA to start and Thor to finish. The other side is a bigger conundrum, so J.Slipper to start, why not? The rest of your pack I can live with as long as D.Pocock is the bench backrower. To me the blindside is between Pocock (Defender of Rucks and good front-on tackler), LSL (very good lineout and lots of mass at running the ball (Courtney Lawes-lite) but lazy at rucks) and J.Dempsey (a hybrid of the above two, good but not as good in ruck defence, lineouts and heavy work in the middle but very industrious, is quick and top notch wide defender and ball runner).

So my piggies are J.Slipper, T.Latu, A.Alaalatoa, R.Arnold, I.Rodda, J.Dempsey, M.Hooper and I.Naisarani with J.Uelese, S.Sio, T.Tupou, A.Coleman (or LSL) and D.Pocock getting splinters waiting for the action.

The Wallabies team that can trouble England

Joe, it’s cooling down in Japan now so the weather factor will be less severe on the European/UK teams. I’ve been there a few times, mainly around Kobe and Osaka area (ex is Japanese). The weather in September to October goes from humid and very warm at the beginning to low humidity and cool in late October and November, especially late afternoons and night. The heat is not excessive but the humidity is a killer, walk 400m to the rail station and you are saturated with perspiration.

The Wallabies team that can trouble England

Hoges, everyone offers some skills, depends on what the coach wants for the team. LSL has played about 10 matches at blindside, great for the lineout and adds muscles in the middle but lazy getting to breakdowns and too slow for the wider channels. I guess the other upshot is he can fill in at lock in an emergency. Jack Dempsey pretty much has always played blindside for the Tahs and until his severe injury in 2017 was in the top flankers in Oz rugby. Not as tall, large or hard as LSL but much faster around the field and offers more at breakdowns. But I do NOT see J.Dempsey as a #8, nor as an emergency lock, he is too small. D.Pocock offers great defence and rugby nous about the field, is a right pest at breakdowns and has saved WB bacon in securing ball on attack a few times. But you lose one good jumper in the lineout. And it’s not the Pocock of old, he has lost speed and new rugby laws of late make it more difficult to be a poacher if you don’t have that speed to the tackle. Also like Dempsey he is still coming back to match fitness.

I’m happy with M.Hooper (speedy tackling machine) and I.Naisarani (hard running #8) so the only contest is at #6 and reserve backrower between Pocock, LSL and Dempsey. I see it as horses for courses and who else is in the backrow. Pick LSL and breakdown suffers. Pick JD and hard man and lineout suffers (just a bit but it does). Pick Pocock and you protect your rucks but lose a ball runner.

Perhaps all 3 should be given a run against Georgia and told “you’re playing for a place in the team”.

VOTE: Wallabies DIY Rugby World Cup player ratings vs Uruguay

BK, is that the match against the Uruguay Pumas Rugby team you are talking about? 🙂

Wallabies return to winning form, beating Uruguay 45-10

Judging by his efforts in the England vs Argentina match, just wait till Nigel Owens referees Australia in a game ! 🙁

Wallabies return to winning form, beating Uruguay 45-10

A.Alaalatoa and M.Toomua both got an 8 from me. The MotM T.Kuridrani got a 7, he ran good lines and was strong in defence. A shame J.Petaia got another hammy twinge as he was heading for a 9-10 score.

Not a complete performance, Fox Tah fan commentators now sprouting up J.Dempsey for a start over D.Pocock and LSL. As W.Horman did not say “One run against a lightweight Uruguay pack Doth not Maketh a Powerful International Backrower Man” 🙂

VOTE: Wallabies DIY Rugby World Cup player ratings vs Uruguay

Stephen Larkham, the coach who watched the Brumbies go backwards on his watch? No way, Jose!

What about Jamie Joseph to take over from M.Cheika? He and M.O’Connor could compare nose jobs, both likely have nicknames of Snoz. The main problem with Joseph is his assistant Tony Brown is returning to the Highlanders. A shame as those two are a hell of a team.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

Watching the game I seem to remember D.Pocock queried it as the ref was walking back after awarding the try. Poite didn’t bother so one can only guess that the TMO had told him it was ok. To be sure, the photo I have seen is neither Poite nor the lineman had any idea (Davies was BEHIND Poite) but the photo suggests that Davies was onside.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

Beiefly, I bleed green and gold and what you say is loserville. Wales won because over the 80 minutes they out-thought and outplayed the WB with a better game plan. Yes the game was close and a good pass here or a dropped pass there or more to the point a better decision here and the WB may have won. But if that luck went Wales’ way they may have won by 15. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn’t change that Wales won a close match.

Rather than moan of conspiracies, watch the game again then go away and think “what could the WB have done better to win that game?” Its a much better mindset and more constructive than “we wuz robbed” or “the other mob were lucky”.

I’m still hoping for a Wallabies vs Brave Blossoms RWC2019 Final. 🙂

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

Justin Tipuric was my MotM. He was everywhere, awesome player! He took on M.Hooper and D.Pocock and did them like a dinner in the rucks.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

Gibbon, that is incorrect. The ref could not possible have seen that Davies was onside or offside as Poite was watching the ruck and Davies was in the defence line BEHIND the referee. Additionally I highly doubt that the linesman had a clear view as the entanglement of the ruck was between him and Davies and the referee was clearly obstructing the view of the linesman to Davies also.

Another poster gave this overhead view https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFoWO3_U4AI5l0_.jpg Davies is approximately a metre in front of the offside line BUT Genia has already lifted the ball and taken a step. From this photo its clear that the ref and linesman had no idea if Davies was offside, but from slow-mo video that was shown on Foxtel and this photo, I reckon in all likelyhood that Davies was onside. I would like to see the frame before the above photo before saying that he definitely was ok. As others have said Davies is allowed to run once Genia lifts the ball although many/most referees use “touch” the ball with hands. I guess its easier. Ruck Law 15:18 says “The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or ……” so from the above photo the ruck has well and truly finished with the ball in Genia’s hands.

However what annoyed me and many of the posters here is the referee did not bother to ask for vision or a replay of the incident, he immediately awarded the try. And this was on top of the TMO and referee stopping play at every little (and not so little) instance during the half with multiple replay visions. I think D.Pocock walked up to the referee and asked him about it, but in his hubris Poite refused to even consider that he was wrong. Dare I suggest he was bleedin lucky that Davies was onside or perhaps Alan Wynn Jones assured him it was fine.

Correct me if I am wrong but with the Kerevi and Adams incidents, wasn’t it the TMO who interrupted and told Poite to check on them? Poite either missed both incidents or allowed play to continue and was dragged into making a decision by the TMO. After saying that I thought Poite’s decisions in both cases were correct.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

Keilidh, Am amazed that Cheika changed the halves on that basis. 1st half against Fiji the WB forwards were being hammered as was N.White, so everything was done helter skelter. W.Genia came on as the WB forwards were dishing it up to the Fiji boys so Genia had his time and space to think. This Wales game showed the reality.

A more instructive decision would have been to look at Genia during the SR season. He was half of the Rebel’s problems, their classy backline was shaking hands with the opposition rush defence by the time Genia passed from the rucks.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

IF (same initials as Israel Folau), hard to say off that photo as W.Genia has lifted the ball off the ground but the Welsh #9 is a good metre to 1½m in front of the “offside line”. Fox showed it twice slow-mo after the game and I agree that on those viewings the bloke could not be ruled definitely offside. But looking at your photo and he is behind Poite’s back. So Poite is either relying on the closest linesman, whose view was obstructed by players in the melee and Poite, or the other linesman about 35-40m away.

What really got up my nose was Poite’s refusal to even consider looking at the video before awarding the try. Gallic hubris indeed.

But dare I suggest W.Genia should shoulder some of the blame, he just farts around too much and should never start a match again. He is fine against tired legs but far too slow in the 1st half battlezones.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

I remember when I was playing (dinosaurs ruled Earth then) scrums finished within a minute. Thank gawd as there were far more scrums those days. Resets normally happened only if the ground was slippery from rain. About the late 1980’s scrum resets started happening more often, I’m not sure if it was a rule change or the larger more muscular bodies accentuated momentum shifts.
I am positive that about 1991-1992, a law change was seriously looked at where the game clock would be stopped for any resets. Of course the Home Unions, whose whole playing style was 10 man rugby at the time, killed off such a radical idea.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

Keildh, Law 19 refers to scrums, you mean Law 18:2 which is as you say “The ball is not in touch or touch-in-goal if: …………….. (c). A player jumps from the playing area and knocks (or catches and releases) the ball back into the playing area, before landing in touch or touch-in-goal, regardless of
whether the ball reached the plane of touch.”

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

BT, a good point and totally agree.
WB had the Welsh on toast, they looked legless and desperate and a YC or a try would have likely finished them. M.Hooper has copped so much flak from not going for goal that he has now gone the other way to always kicking, irrespective of the situation. A good thinking captain indeed. 🙁

Even kicking that goal left the WB behind and chasing so the Welsh could slow everything up (as well as get a breather and magic water during the penalty shoot). If Australia had gone ahead with a try, the Welsh would then be chasing points by likely kicking long and hoping to win the ball back for another field goal attempt.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

A couple of years ago, Tahs were playing against the Stormers at SFS. D.deAllende carrying the ball cocks his elbow as “protection” just as B.Foley comes in to tackle him. Foley tries to wrap arms to prevent the offload and Allende’s elbow at full steam sends him into La-La land, a direct hit to the head. I screamed blue murder from the stand but referee and TMO did absolutely nothing. Foley missed the rest of that match and 2-3 weeks to recover.

I’m all for WR stamping those happenings out, even if it was an accident. But constant TMO stoppages is a sure recipe to put the fans off. It almost appears that WR want no contact at all above the “nipple line” to ensure no slipping up of arms/elbows/shoulders to the head and neck. As fans we have to cop it or watch the NRL boys knock each other senseless.

And WR and the refs/TMO are doing squat all about flying dives into rucks and head/neck twists in clearances.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

KC Leg, isn’t that the scene of the Black knight in a Monty Python skit? LoL

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback

Congrats to the boyo, a well planned and deserved win. 1st half Wales were too fired up, too brutal and far too smart while the WB had another horror start pushing passes, missing crucial tackles and losing the plot in both attack and defence. Both halves started with Wales taking 3 points with f*%#@g field goals which left the WB to chase the game. I reckon they would be quite happy to win 27 – 25 by 9 field goals and giving away 5 tries. And the winner can crow “a win is a win is a win so suck eggs, Blodwyn!“.

It seemed the WB lost their cool letting the Welsh rush defence (and a little bit of offside play) and the referee/TMO get into their heads. Far too many dropped balls, wild passing with the inevitable intecepts and loose ruck plays for a team hankering to win the tournament. Whatever was said in the sheds at ½-time almost paid off for the WB and it a more composed WB in the 2nd half and they duely ran the Welsh ragged. The ending was ruined by lots of time wasting by the Welsh and some rushed plays by the WB, they blew it!.

Referee Poite reffed OK, sure he showed his Gallic laissez faire with scrums and off sides at time but he controlled the rucks well and in other areas had a fair game. He drives me crazy at times (all refs do!) but in this game only for his refusal to check on the halfback intercept try for offside. I don’t cop M.Cheika’s moans as both teams know this referee and captains/teams should be prepared to counter/avoid his quirks.

Some points to note:
– The decision against S.Kerevi sucked but that was the TMO getting his 5 minutes of fame and to be brutally honest Kerevi’s elbow did strike the player’s neck, even if it struck his chest first. WR has signalled for years that head and neck are sacrosanct so it’s end of story and lucky no YC. In hindsight, decisions like this is really opening a Pandora’s box; will any future games finish with 15 players on the field?
– At the end of the day two drop goals and two inches between the ears won Wales the match, which saved them as the WB scored more tries. I hate field goals worth 3 points (looking at you, f*&#@in Jonny Wilkinson) but even if 2 points the Welsh won the match.
– All of the forwards played well. I just cannot see anyone who is available to come in and improve them.
– I feel sad for B.Foley, he tried hard but just wasn’t up to it. The classy player of RWC2015 is out of form and confidence and possibly has played his last WB match.
– The move to start W.Genia also blew up in the WB face. No urgency at the base of rucks allowed the Welsh defence to walk back into their positions. He looks around, waves his arms, bends down like he has arthritis and grabs the ball, then takes two steps to wind up his pass. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Back to the bench Will, you are good against tired legs but awful when fresh. Been like that all year.
– JOC was barely sighted outside the rarely passing Kerevi. He needs to be the inside centre and release Kerevi or T.Kuridrani. Let M.Toomua and JOC battle for the inside centre position.
– DHP played a good fb game. Dependable at the back is Numero Uno requirement for a fb and he should have locked in that position. We just don’t need flashy non-tackling crabs killing the game with multiple dropped balls.

I don’t know who got the MotM gong but I gave it to Justin Tipuric, a real menace.

Wales withstand Wallabies' second-half fightback