The Roar
The Roar

Tony H

Roar Pro

Joined December 2013

12.9k

Views

11

Published

398

Comments

Published

Comments

Roar Pro
Roar Pro

The job of a coach

With the 2018 international season now done, and the pain of watching the Wallabies ruin rugby behind us yet again, it’s time to reflect on where the Wallabies are at and the success of the coaching staff.

Nice. I didn’t know that.

That being said – Did he come in against the spin, or did he get himself set against the new ball?
Secondly – and while I’m not dismissing the outcome – that’s a first class game, when you’ve got time to get your eye in. It’s very different in the middle overs of a world cup when you’re a few down for not many, or you’re chasing a large total and have to be effective from ball one.

Regardless of his talent, he’s simply put, completely unproven at this level, and particularly in that role.

Bancroft's tons put him in World Cup frame

Good article as always Ronan, but I still think that Handscomb should be miles ahead of Bancroft in this situation – for team balance if nothing else.

I agree that Bancroft has batted well, but even if were to come into the side, there’s no way that he’d be batting in the top 4. As we’ve seen with lots of batsmen, there’s a major difference between batting in the top 4, and 5-7, particularly in a ODI World Cup. Coming in against spin and keeping the run rate ticking along is something that Handscomb is miles better at than any of the other candidates, and in my mind, he’s still only behind Smith in that capacity.

Bringing in Bancroft for Carey would require a batting order reshuffle as well as a keeper change, and he’s definitely not worth that.

Bancroft's tons put him in World Cup frame

I think Turner’s on a run of four consecutive ducks in the IPL… Definitely had a form drop that should keep him out.

Bancroft's tons put him in World Cup frame

I have the same team, but with Smith at 3 and Warner at 4.

Australia well placed to defend World Cup with Finch, Warner and Khawaja at the top of the order

Fair point, but Folau in fact refused to sign such an agreement, and wouldn’t let it be inserted into his contract retrospectively. Given that, should he then be allowed to post what he believes?

Let’s be honest here, it’s only because Folau is Christian, and spoke negatively about gay people. He’s a tool, but as far as I’m concerned, being a tool isn’t a crime.

To follow up on your point about what you sign in a contract, I have a few questions.

Should Usman Khawaja then not be allowed to speak of his faith or face the sack?

When I employ people, can I require them to sign an agreement that specifies they won’t talk about, or practice their beliefs in a way that I don’t like?

Can I only hire people who agree with me on everything?

In my opinion, the simple answer to all of those questions is no, and therefore Folau should not be allowed to be persecuted for his beliefs, and a stupid Instagram post, where the same does not apply across every workplace in Australia.
I firmly believe in equality before the law, and as such, Folau should not be subject to rules, that no one else is.

If Rugby Australia doesn’t successfully expel Folau, World Rugby have to

I’m glad that you’re the judge and jury on this one mj..

Given that I disagree with your statement (as I feel it denigrates a Christian’s right to talk about their faith), and you’ve made it on a public platform, should you lose your job?

If not, why not? And who decides?

Again, FYI – I’m not a Christian, and I think Folau is a twit. I also wouldn’t have him in the Wallabies anyway as I think he lacks fundamental skills for a FB and is a selfish player.

If Rugby Australia doesn’t successfully expel Folau, World Rugby have to

That’s a fair point Rowan, but seeing as nearly everyone went at 7 an over last series against England, it’s unfair single out Stoinis. No one in that series really covered themselves in glory from a bowling perspective.

Australia's Cricket World Cup squad is too conservative

Spot on James..

But by the same token, Khawaja is a boundaries or bust kind of player. While not showing the same NEED for the boundary as some of our others, he’s certainly not going to hurt the opposition with ones and twos.

Don’t get me wrong, for mine he’s still opening, but it’s worthy of consideration

Australia's Cricket World Cup squad is too conservative

Spot on James…
If you do it like that, you can bowl well, and bat down to 8…

Australia's Cricket World Cup squad is too conservative

Mate, if they do that, they’ll have to suspend half of the Pacific Island nations teams, and quite a few players from around the world on the basis of their religious beliefs, at which point they’d be in breach of their own regulations to treat everyone equally.

If Rugby Australia doesn’t successfully expel Folau, World Rugby have to

Hi RO,
Simply put, Folau would be worse off by the value of his contract, plus damages.
I can’t see a win for RA in this, even if they’ve done the right thing according to the public mood, I feel like they’ll be paying millions for him to not play.

Israel Folau digs in for the fight of his professional life

Actually mate, his current employer hired him because of his profile…

Israel Folau digs in for the fight of his professional life

It’s definitely an employment contract, that’s made clear in the CBA..

Also, in Folau’s case, he’s going to be millions of dollars worse off. So pretty easy to prove disadvantage.

Israel Folau digs in for the fight of his professional life

Nope. When an employer includes an unenforceable clause in an employment contract, it can’t be used to disadvantage the employee.
Severability is a part of most contracts anyway.

Israel Folau digs in for the fight of his professional life

Except woodart, some contracts can’t be enforced because they contain illegal clauses.
I think RA will struggle on this one, and frankly Folau’s right to be a tool, is exactly the same right we’re all using to call him one.

Israel Folau digs in for the fight of his professional life

Perhaps he will Carlos, but no one will demand you lose your job for saying so.

Folau is a twerp, and vastly over rated as a plater, but my issue with all of this is that he is fundamentally being sacked for expressing a religious belief, and we as a society are so afraid of hearing views we don’t like, we gather a lynch mob in seconds.

How quickly we forget our collective responsibility to defend the rights of people to say things we don’t like.

No one forces anyone to follow Folau on Instagram, and frankly, the bloke is a twit so why would you. To paraphrase a quote often misattributed to Voltaire, “The bloke says stupid stuff, but stupidity shouldn’t be illegal.”

Israel Folau digs in for the fight of his professional life

Take a look at this article on the relevant overlapping of legislation in this area.

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/hreoca-religious-freedom#ch2.
The relevant part for mine is section 3.
In addition, in relation to the freedom from religious discrimination in employment, the ICCPR:

guarantees the enjoyment of human rights without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status (article 2.1)

Either way, I’m quite sure we’ll all see how this plays out.

Tah-Tah, Izzy: Rugby Australia, NSW Rugby confirm they'll sack Folau

Not necrssarily. You just have to demonstrate discrimination and you can be entitled to general damages for pain and suffering.

Tah-Tah, Izzy: Rugby Australia, NSW Rugby confirm they'll sack Folau

You’re not protected to practice if you can’t speak about your beliefs publicly really though are you?

I’m not sure on your last point either. Expression of beliefs often interferes with business.. As an example many years ago, I had a very religious staffer that wouldn’t work Sundays, and in spite of the difficulties that caused (she was a manager in a hospitality business) I wasn’t allowed to reduce her hours in any way.

Tah-Tah, Izzy: Rugby Australia, NSW Rugby confirm they'll sack Folau

Agreed RO, but his comments are religious in nature, and therefore protected by law.

Tah-Tah, Izzy: Rugby Australia, NSW Rugby confirm they'll sack Folau

Quite a few actually

Australian Human Rights Commission Act 1986
Fair Work Act 2009
Anti-Discrimination Act 1977 (NSW)

Tah-Tah, Izzy: Rugby Australia, NSW Rugby confirm they'll sack Folau

Actually TWAS, I don’t think RA have a leg to stand on here. Regardless of what’s in an individual contract, those contracts cannot override anti-discrimination laws. Folau is protected in expressing his religious views, and cannot be punished under workplace law. If RA tries to sack him, they will be forced to pay him out in the courts, as it is a clear case of discrimination against a protected attribute (religion) in a protected area (the workplace).

Now, before everyone goes off and says Folau was discriminating against people, well, yup, I agree he was… but he’s not doing it in a protected area. Unless Instagram is a protected area under workplace laws now, so they have no legal cause to sack him…

It’s a really crappy one for RA because if they sack Folau, he can take up a lucrative overseas contract, and then sue the bejeebers out of them.

Tah-Tah, Izzy: Rugby Australia, NSW Rugby confirm they'll sack Folau

The same reason you are Daniel. You are discriminating against him for expressing his religious view.

Should you therefore be sacked by the Roar for you intolerant opinions, which are clearly in breach of Australia’s anti-discrimination laws?

I bet you don’t think you should, but if you believe in sacking people for their strongly held, and protected beliefs, you yourself would resign.

FYI – I disagree with Folau completely, and am not religious in the slightest..

Rugby union would be a more inclusive, kinder place without Israel Folau and his backwards views

Mate, you got smashed by the Lions in round 1,and as you say, Collingwood beat you in every stat line except the scoreboard.
If you’re the best, and by a long way, these things don’t happen.

The Eagles have the flag at their mercy

Fair points Tom, and I wouldn’t argue against any of them; I’d add just one other salient fact. Despite not playing in perfect style, they’ve consistently found ways to win, and that’s what good sides do.

Also, add to the fact that they’re the only side to have kicked over 100 in each game, and are top of the table in points for, there’s enough there to suggest marked improvement.

The Lions are roaring to the top