Agreed. I think it was a border-line decision but Ward should have showed more awareness and reacted quicker. Umpiring went against the Saints all day and it was fortunate they got the rub of the green (rightly) at a critical stage in the game.

I would agree with most of that. Their midfield needs some work but I think we cannot underestimate the development of a player like Hunter Clark, who is going to spend more time in there this year. That bloke is a jet and has the potential to become one of the best players in the league with his talent. He is extraordinary when the pressure is on in a tight game like in last year’s final. I have been impressed with his output in the preseason games in the midfield and hopefully that can translate to good form during the season.

Injuries are far from ideal but I reckon have the depth to offset the players they have lost to injury. Marshall and Paton are by far their biggest losses to injury but Marshall will return by R3 when their draw starts to get a bit tougher and Paton’s absence can be covered by someone like Webster, who looked decent on the weekend after missing last year. They are fortunate that GWS will also go into R1 with quite a lot of injuries to key players and I reckon the Giants weren’t that great against an inexperienced Swans side on Sunday despite it only being a practice game. Time will tell how the Sainters will go this year but I reckon they will back up last year.

Higgins will be fun to watch this year. Was very impressive in the preseason game. Hope he can take that good form into the season.

That was a bit concerning but we must remember it is just a preseason game and normally they are far more free-flowing than the normal season. The defence has been ravaged by injuries but I think they have the depth to cover the losses. Paton might be a bigger loss than anticipated because of his ability to lock-down quality small forwards but Webster should be able to do that job sufficiently when he gets some continuity after missing last year.

Carlisle may have fallen out of a favour with the coaching staff because he hasn’t gotten a game in the main preseason games so far despite being fit and training most of the off-season. Could be an attitude problem or his back issues catching up with him. I think they need to play him though so the defence is not undersized and vulnerable if he is fit.

I think Ratts said Carlton got 4 goals just from stoppages in their inside-50 which is unacceptable and shouldn’t concede that many goals in the normal season in any games. That is due to inattentiveness and using a makeshift ruck set-up. Ryder and Jones should make a big difference there when they return for R1.

They are good enough to make the top 8 again and probably have one of the most powerful forward lines in the league now but time will tell if they are the real deal.

It is hard to take much away from a preseason game but I thought both teams played quite well last night. The Saint’s ball movement was very slick and they have a very potent forward line. Their defence did not play with as much system as it should have last night, especially when the Blues got some momentum in the 2nd half but Frawley not playing most of the game didn’t help and it looks like Carlisle will return to replace him. Really liked what I saw from Jack Higgins and will be fun to watch when he is up and about. Sinclair is set for a breakout year off half-back and Lonie looks like he will be more than just a depth forward.

On Carlton, they will be a tough opponent to stop when they have some confidence. Saad and Williams appear to be good recruits that will make a big difference to their squad. Richmond will be an interesting test for them in R1 and they can win that game if they bring their best based off of last night and who they were missing but still need to work on some areas.

Yeah, I am not saying their unfortunate history should be swept under the rug but it is just that it doesn’t mean much to me personally since I wasn’t around in those years. I never saw that flag and I am still waiting to see it happen. A supporter who saw that flag will have a much different view on the matter I think but it is still a long time between drinks with it being 55 years now and people’s patience wears thin after that long. Melbourne supporters are in the same boat with it being 57 years now for them.

Yeah mate he seems to have it in for us but the results will speak for themselves soon enough. Maybe it will be the Dogs who go backwards this year after scrapping in last year…?? I don’t reckon we will make the top 4 but backing up last year by making finals again would be a big success still.

1990 was the year the AFL was founded and I have only been interested in the AFL era because that is all I have known following the sport. I have never seen a premiership and that is all that matters me and probably for a majority of the supporters around today. Their VFL history was woeful, I will give you that but it is not something I pay too much attention to since I and probably a lot of other supporters who were born in the 70s, 80s, 90s etc. weren’t really around to experience it or see that flag. Same could be said for Bulldogs and Richmond supporters I bet who went a long time without a flag.
You are not completely wrong though. I would agree they have underachieved in the AFL era but you have to be in it to win it. The Pies lost a lot of grand finals in a row before things finally fell their way and it looks like they are a bit similar. 1997, 2009 and 2010 and even 2004/2005 were missed opportunities for them with the lists they had in that time but they were bloody unlucky not to win it in 2009. Going back to 1997, I don’t think Everitt played for the Saints that day and he was a great ruckman that year and Winmar’s father died the previous day I think. Imagine that playing on your mind the poor bloke. Supporters who don’t support their club through failure and tough times are not supporters at all.
I would say that with the exception of the Hannebery deal, they have pretty much nailed their drafting and recruiting since 2016. Club was in a bad way at the end of 2018 and were desperate to get better and fortunately I believe th contract was a front ended deal.

Couldn’t care less about what happened in the VFL mate. I prefer recent history to ancient history. I have only ever followed the AFL and it is true they haven’t won a flag in the professional comp yet but it was only a few years back Richmond and the Dogs were in the same boat. Lions also had way more advantages and resources than clubs like the Saints and Dogs when they started out. You don’t like people bringing that up I bet.

Yeah that’s right mate. It was all there for you and you couldn’t get the job done last year with all the advantages. That is underachieving.
Let’s cherry pick the Saints history to suit the narrative and deflect why don’t we?Most of the last place finishes were when cars weren’t even around or tv anyway. Professional comp today worth billions of dollars makes that a meaningless comparison I reckon. It’s like comparing suburban footy to the modern AFL

I think he was there just for depth. I hope they don’t need to use him too often but there is no harm in having some insurance.

Like the Lions last year after having a dream run at home?

Steele had pretty much identical stats to Bontempelli last year and it was a breakout year for him. Kicked same number of goals and won the Saints a lot of games. Personally I think the Bulldog’s midfield is overrated and they are not as good as you make them out to be. Macrae is very similar to Brad Crouch too in that he gets lots of the ball but may not necessarily have much of an impact with it so there is that. Clark will spend more time in there this year and he is a jet.
I am not surprised you haven’t heard of him because you don’t know much about their list obviously despite banging on about how they will always fail. But who knows a broken clock is right twice a day right?
The loss of Marshall is a blow but it is not the end of the world and he will be back by R3. Assuming they don’t get anymore injuries, there are still plenty of quality options up there. If they can’t manage a few injuries, then I will agree with you that they are not good but that remains to be seen.
Stef Martin is no spring chicken either but the Lions did pretty well with him in 2019 at age 33 and Ryder looks really fit to me. Dogs don’t seem to have any problems using a 35 year old in their ruck.
They could also be 5-1 too. Lot of what-ifs going on there. Anyway a bit of debate going on. You don’t rate their list, which is cool. We will just have to agree to disagree and see what happens.

I think you are underrating their midfield tbh. Their midfield was good enough to get the job done against the Dogs twice last year and that midfield is talked up as the greatest thing since sliced bread it seems. Jack Steele is case in point. He became an elite player last year and his season was arguably better than Bontempelli’s and Dangerfield’s. Ridiculous how he nearly missed out on the AA squad even though his numbers stacked up with the comp’s best last year in a finals team. Crouch and possibly Jack Bytel will make the midfield much stronger than it was last year if they can stay on the park consistently.
I still reckon Richmond are the team to beat and they will be back at home this year where they are tough to beat. Geelong are on their last legs with their squad and it is now or never for them. The policy Geelong are using only worked for Sydney and Hawthorn for so long. They are not in an infallible club. Port will be the hunted this year and it will be interesting to see if they can handle the higher expectations. They went backwards after nearly making the GF in 2014 so they better have learnt from their mistakes back then to go one better.

I am much more confident about St Kilda’s list now than I was at the end of 2018, especially after last year. Hopefully they can continue to improve and back up last year with another finals appearance. Things appear to have clicked since Ratten took over but nothing in football is guaranteed. They have had a few injuries in the preseason and their depth will be tested more than it was last year but I think they can replace the players that won’t play early in the season, assuming they don’t get too many more injuries (fingers crossed). I think it is fortunate they get GWS in R1, when they also have quite a few injuries to key players. That game will be really important for both clubs to get off to a good start.
I also think they need to get into the right mind set and need to think they are good enough they can match it with the big boys. If the Dogs and Richmond can win flags after long droughts in this era, St Kilda can do the same. The days of accepting failure and mediocrity should be buried in the past for this club. I just hope 2020 was not a false dawn for them and they can get better. A lot of people seem to still undersell the Saints and that works in the their favour.
I would like to see a bit more from Mason Wood and Jack Bytel before they slot into the best 22 for AFL games. Wood is at a crossroads with his AFL career and hopefully being delisted by North will force him to put in the hard yards to become a consistent player that lives up to his potential. Being the 3rd or 4th forward in the Saints forward line could also let him off the leash a bit because a lot of North supporters said he wasn’t used in the right positions for years but I don’t know if those observations have any merit. Time will tell and hopefully he gets his act together. As for Bytel, he has a lot of potential to be a very serious midfielder if he can get a good run this year. He was highly rated in his draft year but I think injuries made some clubs lose interest him. Let’s see what they can do this year.

Excellent choice for captain. Steele was exceptional last year and showed why he deserves to be a leader at the club. It is also a good strategy by the club for smoothly transitioning Steele into the full time role next year with Geary at his side to support him this year. I reckon he will only get better this year and will consolidate his status as an elite player. Ratten has helped take his game to a whole new level.

Come on mate, the Saints have been too deprived of success since the 60s to have any enemies haha. We may have beat you in the last 3 finals but you won a flag in 2016 to make you forget about the prelim losses in 2009 and 2010. Honestly, I am suprised you don’t hate Adelaide more after they denied the Bulldogs a grand final appearance in 1997 and 1998. The 1997 prelim would have been very painful for the Bulldogs and it was lost in the dying minutes. It was even worse as a Saints supporter to fall away in the GF.

Only way I can see Collingwood playing finals this year is if their draftees from last year have an immediate impact. No guarantees there but they could revitalise their list and change things up if they nailed it. All it takes is one or two good draft hauls along with some smart recruiting to turn things around I reckon.

They will get back Sidebottom and Howe for this year but I am not sure they will make much of a difference. I don’t think they did done enough with their list when it was in its prime from 2018/2019 to be a real shot at winning a flag. Failing to acquire a key forward has really put them behind the eight ball.

I reckon the Mihocek-Cox set up is too predictable now and they will need to get far more output from De Goey, Hoskin-Elliot and Elliot to offset that. It can only work so many times and they desperately need to change it up. I think their forward line is by far their weakest area on the ground now.

Buckley might have one final ace up his sleeve but it isn’t looking too good after last year’s belting by the Cats in the semi-final. I think the writing is on the wall for Bucks as you pointed out and it is time for a change in management and coaching. Imagine though if Collingwood won that flag in 2018 how radically different things would be now for them. It is a bit like the Saints in 2010 with the Milne bounce. Just a split second thing like that can change a club’s fortunes for years. I don’t think the Pies will go down the St Kilda path with being a cellar dweller for nearly 10 years after losing a grand final but time will tell soon enough how they will go this year.

Interesting article about the two potential juggernaut forwards. I think both players are pretty much identical in terms of talent and not a whole lot separates them. I thought Ben played with a bit more confidence last year than Max but that would be primarily due to having more continuity in the system and experience. I was still nevertheless very impressed with Max King’s output last year in what was his debut season. I think he will be an excellent forward for the Saints along with Ben King at the Suns.I don’t think you mentioned this in your article but Max King took 30 contested marks last year, which is outstanding for a player in their first real season of senior footy. It must be said thought that he would tend to drop very easy chest marks and would sometimes get overwhelmed by bigger and more experienced key defenders. He has been working on becoming much stronger this off-season to match up better against those sort of player. I believe Ben King has been doing the same from all accounts.
In terms of the scoring output of both players last year, I think a lot of that can be attributed to the different structures and tactics employed by GC and St Kilda respectively. It appeared to me that the Saints preferred to spread the load with their goal kickers rather than just rely on a few blokes to kick winning scores each week in 2020. They used to rely so much on Membrey and Bruce to kick winning scores each week and that would fail more often than it worked, which was indictative of their poor percentage and ladder position in the Richardson era. One of the big reasons they were one of the highest scoring teams in 2020 is because they had many options up forward and had a different approach to getting the ball in there it seemed. Battle, Ryder and Marshall would often be deployed in the forward line to support King and Membrey and bring the ball to ground for players like Butler. I cannot really comment on what GC did last year with their tactics up forward because I didn’t watch them much in 2020 but I think both teams had different ways of going about it. I think GC’s forward line was a bit more conventional than St Kilda’s, which is what I thought when they played each other in that great game in R10 last year.
I think overall both players will be outstanding and there isn’t much difference between them. I am expecting they will both have very good seasons in 2021. I reckon the Saints definitely got it right with Max at pick 4 and there was no way they were ever going to pick anyone else in 2018 after investing a lot of time and resources into his rehabilation. I have loved what I have seen from him so far and I reckon he was a big reason why we made finals last year. He has already become better than Josh Bruce ever was at the Saints and that is a win in of itself.

Yes, they are probably the least likely to break into the top 8 from last year. Really it is between GWS, Carlton and Melbourne. GWS have one of the worst coaches in the league and appear to be a fragmented club culturally. Melbourne are always unpredictable and cannot be fully trusted yet. Carlton are just inconsistent I would say Melbourne are the interesting side for me this year. They have a pretty good draw but they have shown time and time again that means nothing with them and make hard work of everything they do. Not sure Ben Brown will be the difference for them making the 8. The Dogs play them twice and those two games might be the difference for them getting in this year. The Dogs belted them last year to deny a finals appearance in 2020.
I am worried my boys will slip out because of their difficult draw but they are more than capable of beating those sides they play twice. Honestly they should beat pretty much every side at Marvel this year if they are a serious side. It is a joke that Port, who finished on top get a pretty easy draw compared to the team that finished 5th. Something not right there but it is what it is and they better embrace the challenge or risk pulling a 2019 Melbourne. I reckon they’ll be able to back up last year though and a side like WC or Geelong, who they play twice could slip up themselves and fall away with their old lists.

I think if Carlton are able to become more consistent and win games they are meant to win, they will make finals this year. Poor starts or failure to stop momentum swings let to losses to Melbourne, GWS, Hawthorn and Adelaide last year, which cost them dearly from seriously contending for finals. I think their list is more talented than Melbourne’s at the moment and the Demons are probably the team they will be competing to make finals. The others will be GC, Fremantle, GWS and Collingwood. I think Carlton have a slightly better list than all those sides now and this should be the year they get their act together. Richmond in R1 will be a very interesting test for them and they need to just get on with it. It looked like last year they had laspes in concentration and thought they would just win like in the Hawthorn and Adelaide games.
Hard to tell who will make finals this year with pretty much all the sides from 2020 meaningfully improving their lists in the off-season except for maybe Collingwood. Collingwood are the most likely side to slip out of the eight and it certainly appears they wasted their opportunties to win a flag with their current list through mismanagement and incompetence. Still have a dysfunctional forward line that relies on Cox and Mihocek. That is now very predictable and I think it won’t work very effectively anymore, despite the success they had with it in 2018/2019. Maybe Bucks has one final ace up his sleeve and will suprise us all but I won’t be holding my breath. The Saints have a very tough draw this year and may very well miss out if they fail to learn from last year. I think they are up to the task provided they have a relatively clean run with injuries, stay motivated and get more output from players like Billings, Hanners, Membrey etc. Heap of games at Marvel should help them too but nothing is guaranteed and I would be disappointed if can’t back it up after making finals in the most difficult season to date. WC might slip out too after making finals 6 seasons in a row and some of their most important players appeared to slow right down last year. Really though probably any side other than Richmond and Geelong have a good chance to fall out if something goes wrong.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind the GCS and I think they are putting together a really good list now that just needs time to gel. I think their current list will be very competitive this year and I reckon they will make finals in 2022 when the team builds up more synergy and becomes more experienced.Maybe even this year if they can get a good run with injuries and be more consistent across the whole year. I have noticed the Suns tend to lose a lot of momentum in the 2nd half of every season after being decent at the start. If they can fix that, they will be a good chance if some luck falls their way.
Back to the original point, there will always be big and small clubs in the league. Richmond, Collingwood and WC will always be the biggest clubs I reckon and it is hard to see that changing. Richmond used to be a basket case that were millions of dollars in debt but they fixed up their problems. I don’t see any reason why the Saints can’t if they are serious about it. It takes time and requires a good managemet and club culture in order for their to be success.
I think the Suns didn’t have any of that at the start like you said and that’s why they have struggled.. GWS were certainly set up better and got more support. It looks like they have changed that now and are putting together a good management to run the club along with a good list. I was just being a bit defensive with TeamAustralia because I don’t like it when some supporters think a smaller club like North Melbourne or St Kilda should be booted out when it is clear those clubs have had disadvantages compared to others. I wasn’t really trying to berate or attack GC but just trying to get the narrative straight.

If St Kilda don’t have 49,000 members as you suggest, then what does that mean for GC then? They would barely have 1000 members according to your logic if we want to be sceptical about numbers.
The dogs, melbourne and North all get 10s of millions too so I suppose we should give them the flick while we’re at it. As WASS said, the AFL has only existed since 1990 in case you weren’t aware and the fact St Kilda has existed for 147 years is irrelevant to this discussion. They weren’t getting millions of dollars to prop clubs up back in 1873 or 1897 when the VFL started. GC has had hundreds millions of dollars poured into them and still haven’t played in a final after 10 years in a completely professional era. I think that is closer to the definition of a basket case than anything else with all the help they have received. Y You just seem to hate St Kilda more than anything else whilst avoiding the subject of the failures and inefficiences of GC. Just because the GC experiment hasn’t worked so far doesn’t mean other clubs should take the fall, not that any should period. I don’t like the idea of putting any of the 18 clubs on the chopping block. I don’t even know why the discussion of culling clubs to “fix” the comp always surfaces every year anyway.

St Kilda had a record 49,000 members last year and would have more supporters than Brisbane, GC and GWS combined in my opinion. In Victoria, they would easily have more supporters than North Melbourne and probably have just as many as the Bulldogs and Melbourne, perhaps even more. The AFL has poured hundreds of millions into the Suns if you include everything from the facilities, stadium, staff, promotion etc over their lifetime and there has not been any return on investment yet. The Suns tbh i don’t think ever will get a good following no matter how much money and support the AFL throw at the problem . Maybe that will change one day and they will prove lots of people wrong but idk how you can draw the conclusion that the Saints are drain on the comp when there are clubs that have been bleeding the comp more with their financial position. Regardless though, I think it is ridiculous how there are always calls to put a club on the chopping block for xyz reasons.

I thought he might have been traded last year to get the Crouch deal done but that was not required because of some good negotiating by the Saints. It will be interesting though to see if he wants to stick around at the Saints, who finally look to have got their act together, or return to SA and play for the Crows or Power. I don’t think they would want to lose him because he is a pretty decent player with some potential. He is not worth 500k a year atm but he could be if he can get things to click this year.