The IRB should keep the experimental laws

When you set up a process, stick to it. Get the guru's in place, have them set up criteria, rule-changes, trials, then apply them. Don't pick and choose the ones you want and others you don't want. The way it's going looks like a complete abortion.

Rich daddy, one of the points of the ELVs was to make the breakdown easier to referee - this clearly hasn't happened. Another reason was to make the game more exciting to watch - that's fine if you love kickfests but I think that is called Australian football. Furthermore I didn't see much running rugby when SA beat NZ or when NZ beat Australia - so what are you talking about sledgehammer? Keep some ELVs, throw some away.

Rich daddy Couldn't agree more about the refereeing and the quality leaves alot to be desired. Judging from the Tri-nations I still have some concerns about the award of short arm penalties being the corect decision for some infringements, particularly those at the breakdown within kicking distance of the posts. Referees should be decisve and warn the captain that continual infringements will lead to yellow cards, but is that enough! The moment is passed and the defending team have not given away 3 points. In a close game it could be critical. I agree the ELV's have not been in existence for long and it will be interesting to compare stats at the end of the current roiund of games. The article in the NZ Herald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10525856

Sledgehammer I was not responsible for the stats, I picked them up from a reputable source. I thought they would bring balance to the discussion instead of relying upon hearsay arguments. There has been alot of chat in articles in the SH and particularly in the Aussie press about the need to capture a bigger slice of the viewing public both for TV and bums on seats. League is the obvious target as the AFL as far as I can see is the market leader by along way and hence the need to make rugby attractive to NRL followers. I can only pick up these vibes through the Aussie press and apparent need to change the game to compete. Comments by John Connolly or even ill advised statements by O'Neill.don't help your case. I agree League and union are like chalk and cheese and hopefully they will remain so. By the way there is an interesting article by an American about the ELV's on the NZ Herald web site. As for me I have no hangups I will judge as the trial of the 13 ELV's in the NH takes place. If some or all improve the game then I am all for them , the jury as far I am concerned is still out.

re the merging of league and union as a result of the ELVs I am 100% that is pure bs . Last weekend I (with about 2 other hardy souls and a ball boy) watched a union/ league double header at north sydney oval. There was no comparison the games were like chalk and cheese. The fact is NH commentators are playing mind games - one week the ELVs will radically change rugby and therefore should be avoided at all costs, the next week they make no difference (as per your silly stats) and therefore are not worth implementing. One week there are too many free kicks, the next week too many scrums. This isn't an informed discussion at all and RD is right on the money - keep the ELVs at all costs.

Rich daddy There has been a lot of discussion about the ELV’s and their effect on the game and with this in mind, I thought you might like to see these stats. Average figures per game from the Six Nations (2001-2008 inclusive) and the Tri-Nations (2004-2007 inclusive), rounded up or down to the nearest 0.5 Six Nations Tri-Nations Time ball is in play 47% 43% Tries 4 4 Kicks 59 59 Line-outs 34 33 Scrums 17 19 Penalties 20 20 On average, northern hemisphere referees awarded one penalty per game fewer than their southern counterparts. Don't forget many SH referees wil take charge of NH tests and vice versa. The percentage of time that the ball is in play has been increasing over the past four seasons in both competitions, save for one static year in the Six Nations and one lower year in the Tri-Nations. Last year’s Six Nations saw the highest percentage ever recorded in this category, above 50. In the match between Wales and France the figure was 57 per cent. In the last 45 Six Nations games and 69 Tri-Nations games, in only seven of those 114 matches did a side scoring fewer tries than their opponents win the game. I watched the first Aus v NZ game in a London pub with a mixed bunch of Kiwis and Aussies. A lot of shouting from both sides at the screen about infringements at the breakdown missed by the referee with increasing annoyance of infringements at the breakdown close to the 22 only rewarded with a short arm penalty. Quite clearly deliberate play as a full arm penalty would not be awarded. I thought there was too much aimless and ineffective kicking out of hand, judging from the groans and comments both sides agreed. NZ had more possession, but seemed to be obsessed with running around like headless chickens, it needed someone to take control. .If you look at the All Blacks’ victory over Australia on Saturday, Dan Carter, the No 10, kicked roughly three out of four balls that came to him from set-plays. In doing so he ensured New Zealand had the field position to dictate the game. He bought more control to the game, kicked five penalties and perhaps reverted to an “old fashioned game” One of the major concerns in the NH has been the undercurrent of a perceived merging of league and union promoted by ARU as a means to win over followers of the NRL and others through the introduction of the ELV’s. It is considered to be totally unnecessary as League is very much a minority sport in the NH and represents no threat to union. As John Connolly recently remarked in an article in the SMH “Rugby league and rugby union used to be so different, they were black and white. Now there's a real shade of grey”. The new season in the NH starts in the next few weeks and 13 ELV’s will be trialed. Many are looking forward the itrial, but will it dramatically change the game I doubt, as proven by the AB’s last weekend a controlled kicking game coupled with clinical finishing will always win, regardless of any changes to the laws.

WE still need to fix the breakdown. The tackled player must not be allowed to play the ball on the ground-in other words the attacking team has too much advantage at the breakdown and the defence is chosing not to compete for the ball but instead forms a defensive wall. You may also have noticed that players with the ball are going to ground and not presenting the ball for a mauling situation-in fact the art of ripping a ball from one of your teammates or from the opposition is being lost.

RD - I hope that you are from the Northern Hemisphere. What you are saying is absolutely on the money. What is frustrating is the nonsense that is coming out of the UK, for instance that the ELV's are a Southern Hemisphere conspiracy. The IRB commissioned the ELV's not the SH and we are being pillored because we have implemented some of them. And you are right it has made for a much faster and more spectacular game. Monthy Pyton lives in on.