Counting the football crowds: manic or depressive?

yep - - which is what some of us have pointed out to soccer folks for some time - with 4 codes - each will most likely trend best in it's niche - - the AFL has the advantage of a zero compromise to it's niche - - i.e. domestic club competition. For the HAL - - it's greatest threats are within - so to speak - - well, without within........ .....Ponting out, I'm just glad Cam White got his chance.

Interesting post Redb. We could get the situation where soccer mirrors rugby union in the sense that the really big crowds are reserved for international and confederation club games, and the A-League clubs have to make do with whatever is left over.

MC, I agree the HAL crowds are coming way back to the field despite the two big teams Melb and Sydney topping the table. The Adelaide United crowd numbers are interesting, for the HAL sub 10,000, fo the ACl game 17,000 - you would think the crowd for the HAL Adelaide game would have been buoyant. it seems Australian cities playing each other in futbol is considered secondary. Food for thought for the FFA. Redb

Crowds - 7 rounds in - HAL is still tracking crowd wise somewhere between V1 and V2 - - and down about 57K on last season (and average drop of about 8K per round - - this may even out, rnd 7 was off last year by 1600 only). Rnd 7 was interesting because - MVFC played at home, and drew their first ever sub 20K TD home crowd (for HAL) - - this is both a bit annoying for them and also illustrates their 'strength' thus far (and so is a tribute to what's been done). However, the FFA would prefer to not see MVFC crowds dipping too much, as, they are topping the table and the ONLY team in town. (perhaps the wagons for the 2nd Melb team are circling and some support is already leaving MVFC ready to jump on the new side). Ade Utd again failed to top 10K, but we know the circumstances there with their ACL campaign - - and HAL is illustrated as the poor relation during such a campaign (similar to the SoO impact on NRL). Newcastle Jets failed to top 10K, but, they also had 1 sub 10K crowd last season, about 400 less than this week - - so, it's not doom and gloom yet. And SFC - - 12,403 - - - this is the worrying thing, the SFC avg is down to 13,218 so far and the MVFC crowd avg is down to just under 22K. Last year, the 2 biggest market 1 city 1 team sides combined for an avg attendance of 42K, this year, it's sitting at just over 35K. That's got to be concerning in trying to sell soccer to the Aust market place when the 'flag ship' big city teams are not just stagnating, but slipping.

daSilva - there was a story about how Alistair Clarkson had self funded his own international tour of sports organisations/coaching investigation - - not sure what clubs where that he visited - - but, AFL coaches, to 'compare' to other 'elite' organisations CAN ONLY look outside of Aust Footy and cross codes. Sheedy made a throw away remark in jest that people who know him know was severely tongue in cheek - - anyone wanting to take it as an absolute will only be made to look a fool when that comment is placed alongside the seagulls and martains.

Then again I have heard Graham Cornes (SA most famous AFL pundit) giving Adelaide Neil Craig credit for the way the Soccerroos played and the way Guus hiddink coach in the world cup. He wrote did Neil copy Guus or Guus copy Neil? Ah Cornsey - he can be funny sometimes.

I think Kevin Sheedy even forwarded Rale Rasic autobiography. He is a football fan. I think he shows it doesn't has to be either/or and there is no need for war between the two sports. He is not the only AFL coach he picks up tips from Football. The Mark Williams also attended Aimes Jacquet coaching conference in Australia.

Mc I can't remember when maybe you could as it was an AFL clip from I think the 9 footy show and Kevin Sheedy. The pannel where bagging out football (unsual I am sure) especially Sam, and Kevin said words to the effect we don't know what a midfield is and what working in tight space is, he had just come back and had spent a couple of weeks with Alex Furgerson at Man U and the pannel where giving him a hard time. In fact I think KS gives a lot of credit to watching other codes and picking a bit from each as to why he was as successful as he was.

Midfielder - re filling the hole. (in the nicest possible terms) in Aust Footy filling the hole is what the ruckman would so often do trying to block the lead up the middle of the ground by the full forward, however, back in about 1994 or so, Peter Caven for the Swans unfortunately tried to fill the hole in front of 'Plugger' Lockett, and ended up with face re-arranged. But we don't use 'tracking',....... although people whinge about Americanised sports phrases - - - 'shot on goal', or 'playing the quarter back role' and things like that.

Millster Great point you made above measuring by our own standards .......... its finally starting to happen we can set our own goals (no pun intended). Also interesting football is also spreading in more ways that what we think .......... to explain ......... when Simon Hill & Fossie called the 2005 WC & 2006 world cup, they never tried to explained the game by saying this is like how the AFL do this or the league does that. But I remember being proud when listening to call ( I was there at the match) but have watched that 2005 game a number of times. But SH kept calling players tracking back and filling the hole. Was watching and NRL game and heard for the first time players tracking across the field to their marker and getting into to position to cover the hole. Also went to a Easts V Saints match this year, ......... and heard quite a number of football chants ........... both the media calls and the fans at the match never did these things before 2005 and the A-League. Con I am not sure what this means but there must be a lot of NRL fans must also attend A-League matches and quite a few broadcasters listen to Simon ........... IMO I rate SH as one of the top broadcasters of football I have ever heard ........ just a shame Fossie is not there doing the analysis they where an awesome pairing.

Con - thanks and of course I'm biased towards your celebrating the A-League's positive points. But to be balanced cheers also to Spitfire 3. I think its good for us sometimes to stop the comparisons and arguments and realise that we have an amazing sporting landscape in this country, with 4 competitions that give us diversity, good standards, skills and excitement. We will each have our biases, and will argue on individual points for the fun of it, but yes it is good to occasionally say well done to our favoured code - and across the board. Gotta leave this good vibe now and catch a plane back from Canberra.

Good comments Spitfire. cheers Redb

cheers for the kind words Pippinu and Millster I enjoy reading your stuff as well, the more people in the underground football mafia the better.

The Link - ah, well, there were many 'NRL' type posters taking those trashy articles as gospel.............or just the couple we encounter on theRoar every so often. ;-) Re the complacency point - - that's still the main thing that's happened perhaps as a result of soccer attempting to enter the domestic football scene seriously, or other codes expansion plans or not - - complacency is out the door. Re 'ill' and 'terminal'.........hard to tell from a distance, but, me thinketh not dead yet as doth protestest too much.

Spitfire, spot on. I don't see the A-League and NRL as competitors as the seasons have minimal overlap. Further, anyone drawing broader conclusions re NRL's intentions from a couple of trashy articles in News Ltd publications needs their head examined. If NRL is Sydney is ill then the other winter codes in Sydney must be terminal. At the very least If it takes the AFL expanding to a 2nd Sydney team to stop the NRL being complacent about Sydney then its a good thing.

Goes to show most A-League fans are bankers or mortgage brokers.

Oh, forgot one - Defensiveness: The crowd figures the NRL gets are not THAT bad (I'm sick of hearing people foretelling the death of rugby league). In fact, from some perspectives they're better than in previous years. But that's all OT, so I'll also say this: Clubs of all codes just need to live within their budgets, cut costs when crowds are down. Crowd numbers will come and go, on-field success will come and go, memberships will come and go. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that so far the A-League's been run by pretty competent people. I doubt there's much to worry about.

Here's an NRL fan's perspective on this article. I'm torn several ways by it. First: Jealousy. By rights, the NRL's crowd figures should be significantly bigger than the A-League's. So, damn you A-League. Second: Graciousness. Those ARE decent crowd figures for a relative newcomer to the codes. So, well done A-League. Third: Pain. Looking at the AFL's regular season crowd numbers. You just got to ignore it. Fourth: Hope. Could the rise in popularity of the A-League help bring more Aussie spectators out of their years of hibernation to attend more rugby league games? Fifth: Well... Could I ever enjoy watching soccer? I've tried in the past and I just don't get the thrill of it. The structure of the game is similar to basketball, water polo, hockey, and any number of others. The fact that the chances of a draw are pretty high. The chances of a nil-all draw - that just seems crazy to me to watch. Obn the other hand I watch every NRL game I can (on free-to-air), no matter whether the Raiders are playing or not, because I just find it to be the most exciting, exhilarating and generally enjoyable thing on TV or off it. But good luck to the A-League, a quality addition to aussie sport.

I like the tone of this piece. I think just a few years in, perhaps not surprisingly, we're measuring ourselves against goals set by successful and long-lived competitions. And that's great of course - without ambition there would be no progress. But we also need to realise what has been achieved. A better sporting product - better live and better televised. The meeting and exceeding in all seasons of the 10000 fan target - a level, we should not forget, that makes us probably the #2 or #3 attended league in Asia, and would be the envy of many leagues world-wide. And some sense across the board in league future development plans and a tragectory for growth and development. I'm not saying all is perfect, I'm not saying the future is assured, and I'm not saying we should rest on our laurels. But at the same time we can be rightly proud of what is now a genuine football alternative in the Australian sporting landscape. And a foundation upon which we can truly build. Thanks for the good positive piece Con, and a big cheer from me.

btw - Phutbol - it is interesting isn't it, that article - when you consider what the NRL and some clubs have done to try to mobilise the NRL 'heartland' supporter base..................and it's gone backwards. They've used their NewsLtd media bloodhounds to try to portray the AFL as some evil invader to try to stir the NRL passions.............for nought. NRL in it's home fortress is looking decidedly ill. It will be interesting to see how they seek to turn it around, as, until the Sydney 'fortress' is secured and trending upwards again, any thoughts of expansion are just pipedreams.