Rugby losing elite players to other codes

I still think long term this Blacktown council deal is going to come to huant the AFL ........ MC in all the glee you have in having a local council to support the AFL ...... it must be realised the AFL project has cost the council its past ten years park & rec savings and grants and about 10 years into the future park & rec funding ........ essentially maybe not the AFL's fault but the AFL project for essentially a hand full of local players when compared to other codes has gobbed up almost 20 years of development money ........ so what you may say ........ so what the AFL have it so the AFL were smarter or whatever ....... Now take your AFL hat off and think as a local ......... assume as a local your sort of choice of choice is not AFL ...... assume the next time you go to the park and the tap does not work, or the lights are not working .............. Who are you gonna call ........... local council ........... who are you gonna blame when its not fixed .......

Westy - that land already existed in the Blacktown Olympic park precinct and is being maintained anyway.......it's not like it's a new land release or far removed from existing facilities and their maintenance. THe before and after aerial photos show that there were perhaps smaller and less fancy ovals there previously which still had to be maintained, i.e. mowed and prevented from becoming rubbish dumps and snake 'reserves'.

Dave - phase one of 31,000 capacity won't be much chop for MVFC hosting Juventus when they drew 40K recently - - so, we need to factor in the cost of phase 2. That doesn't get mentioned much. In fact, the SoO, Socceroos etc - - none of those would be held there at least until phase 2 to seat 50K.....and even then, you'd opt for 98K at the 'G for Socceroos wouldn't you? The 3rd team you refer to is still a hypothetical - - i.e. the 2nd Melb team - and no guarrantee of success with MVFC trend down over the last 2 years instead of up - - and that was before the financial crisis hit. The 4th team - - any bets on when the ARU will come waltzing along with a Melb franchise.........true.......if they get effectively a free and fancy new stadium, they'd be mad not to.

Michael C..............this is the problem with your knowlegeable but narrow focus. As always the AFL plays a marketing game. The dominant and overriding code in Blacktown is football. It is not rugby or league. The AFL representatives made clear that the state Government's contribution was road access/parking not a cash contribution to the stadium. Now you see why we are becoming concerned. Yes the concern is that the AFL will walk away. The problem is against advice the Council has agreed to commence with their own funding and no matching finding from the AFL.It has also agreed to contribution for maintenance of the completed facility. Understand Michael the Council's contribution is not only land but up front cash and provision of future contributions. The AFL did make clear no cash injection was necessary from the state government.

Westy Back on topic for a bit .......... as a rugby person does the loss of Nick concern you and do you think as a previous blogger said rugby would be better off looking to its juniors rather than buying in talent from RL & the Pacific Islands.

MC "all the while the state govt pumps $268m into ‘building up’ other codes…….and we all know that State Govts only have so much money (via stamp duty and gst distributions from Canberra)…….the $268million would far better serve the community to install more rain water tanks, water recycling irrigation systems etc." When are you going to stop moaning about the new stadium? It is half finished...too late...it wont stop now!! The new stadium will be home to 3 teams who require a rectangular stadium, with possibly a 4th if Rugby S14 come in...mmm pretty good use there...but thats not all...international club exhibition mmatches ie MV vs Juve, International matches Socceroos vs Asian Cup matches, Socceroos friendlies, RL SOO, RL internationals, HAL game evry week, Asian Champs League, Wallaby matches...errr get the picture...it will be well utilised and IS NEEDED. In fact l think they will eventually need another rectangular ground perhaps in the SE of Melb. In your view State Govt of Vic should only pump money into AFL to keep it number one like all the little "communitÿ" works on ... AFL grounds and their clubrooms and facilities etc etc. You know $20m here, $10m there etc

btw - some interesting happenings - the fate of the French F1 GP, and the German TV dropping the Tour de France coverage.....

Westy - so, what's the actual situation at present - - is it simply a concern that the AFL might delay WS 18? Or that the AFL might walk away from it entirely? All I've seen is that work commenced recently and the AFL re affirmed their commitment : AFL’s commitment to the project was confirmed by the attendance of Chief Executive Andrew Demetriou at the launch of Blacktown City 2025 Strategy where he stated "Western Sydney is a key market for the AFL and these new facilities will help our goal of increasing the popularity of the game of AFL in this fast growing region.” However, future development is also dependent on the Blacktown City Council and the NSW Government making significant infrastructure investments. The likely overall investment is also causing resentment among local rugby league clubs, who accuse Blacktown Council of ignoring the significance of the area’s traditional football code. so - - what is the actual situation? or is this just hypothetical future concern? On what basis do we believe the AFL may NOT complete it's promise?? Is it the supposedly 'secret' plans to extend the venue to a 20,000 capacity venue further down the track?? And the capital carve up required should that go ahead? Is the concern that the AFL wouldn't consider premiership matches there without the phase 2 construction? That goes without saying. I've seen indication of the resentment of RL grass roots folk complaining about archaic facilities (such as Whalan Reserve) and unplayable grounds - - - welcome to our world (Melb), Sydney is wetter than Melbourne - - we've been unable to train and play early season games safely on so many grounds the last 2 years..........all the while the state govt pumps $268m into 'building up' other codes.......and we all know that State Govts only have so much money (via stamp duty and gst distributions from Canberra).......the $268million would far better serve the community to install more rain water tanks, water recycling irrigation systems etc.

Westy, The AFL it seems has been nothing but stoic despite the hate campaign forged by the Daily Telegraph and its invasion rhetoric and RL scribes like Roy Masters who has done everything in his power to discrefit the AFL's attempt at creating a second sydney team in the west. Even in the face of the poor but understandable crowd at the Swans final against North Melb at the despised ANZ stadium, the AFL through Demetriou came out and still supported the 2nd team. Now with the global economic crisis threatening any new project let alone a sporting franchise the AFL has again come out and said it will stay the course. The recent financial malaise would have created a reasonable excuse for the AFL to bail out of western Sydney. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24491181-5012432,00.html Demetriou is not the only CEO of a major code that comes across as arrogant. I would charge rugby union's CEO John O;Neil as being an elistist snob who looks down his nose at sports such as Aussie Rules. Does that mean he represents rugby? A childish argument in my books, you dont like Demetriou so the AFL is evil in intent. ;-) Redb

Michael C.............the 45 million for Western Sydney Parklands covers over 8 councils.Its about half of Sydney for the next ten years . That is about 4.4 million for each Council over 10 years or about 440000 for each Council. Do not distort the real issue. It is not the AFL in Western Sydney. You must understand 10 million investment for one project is a massive committment by the Council and it is more. The state government provided Blacktown with about 16 million in a one off committment to Blacktown to improve their sporting fields. The Council has used 10 million of this one off found to AFL project . They have committed land and the leasing rights of venue and offices to the AFL who got NSW Cricket involved as their co tenant. The Council has also committed future funds. The Council was forced to commit 5 million to the nearby 2 soccer fields to placate the Blacktown Soccer Association whose home ovals are a disgrace. These ovals will now be the Associations representative teams homeground. The other 50 or so football ovals in Blacktown are to be ignored. It also drove a wedge between the Blacktown Demons the state league side with their own rep sides and the Association for the redevelopment of Fairfax. Do not cloud the issue with state government announcements made after the event and in consequence of the Council's decision.The issue is that Blacktown has committed its resources to the AFL project. In our area this is a very significant committment of scarce resources.It was made on the basis the AFL can deliver not as some publicity stunt. Notice the change in demeanour. Blacktown needs the AFL to complete its promise otherwise it hits an area that can ill afford it.

Redb it is OK to react to my emotion but not these facts. I was present when Demetriou informed Council and local press the AFL had the funds in its own right. He is by the way a very arrogant and patronising man very unlike Jackson. The NSW state government is currently going through a period that you in Victoria also experienced. It is not the AFL coming that is the problem. Be under no misapprehension my problem is that Blacktown municipality has committed a very significant investment which is more than the initial 10 million based on the AFL's committment. Prudential provisions the Council would normally have required were given up in recognition of the AFL's risk and size of their investment.Understand it is Blacktown Council and its residents that will lose heavily if the AFL does not proceed.You seemed to be just worried about the AFL .The Council is spending its money under a non binding Heads of Agreement and it will commit commit more. They will back the AFL for better or worse. I earnestly hope that the AFL proceed. But react I may if the news from Sussex Street is the NSW government said not one cent and the AFL said it may have to reconsider.

re the Parklands - this is the state govt quote at the time: "The Government has also agreed to provide Blacktown City Council with $5 million to develop soccer fields between Rooty Hill Road South, and the Western Sydney Orbital. This complex would include five soccer grounds, parking and player amenities. It will become the new home of the Blacktown District Soccer Football Association. Work on the soccer complex is expected to be complete by 2007. The $20 million for sports facilities is in addition to the $45 million already earmarked for the development of the Western Sydney Parklands over the next 10 years." SO - what's the problem, soccer got some money too, and the parklands monies were not impacted.

btw - an awful lot of Sydney 2000 Olympic venues have themselves become 'white elephants', or at least, rather pale and clammy. Perhaps Bankstown council realised that to save the precicnt from becoming a white elephant, that a few more 'stakeholders' out there might be beneficial.

Midfielder - hang on - this Blacktown project is the "BLACKTOWN OLYMPIC PARK UPGRADE" - is it not? n a landmark arrangement, Blacktown City Council will construct two new ovals - one of which will accommodate 10,000 spectators - and an indoor practice centre for AFL and Cricket at the Blacktown Olympic Park. Mr Iemma said the new sports grounds were part of an ongoing Olympic legacy from Sydney 2000, and would complement the existing international standard softball, baseball and athletics facilities. Plans for the development at Blacktown Olympic Park include: Development of a main oval with capacity for 10,000 spectators (grandstand seating 1500, corporate seating 500, and embankment seating 8000); Development of a second oval for training and junior games; Construction of an indoor practice hall, potentially with a gymnasium, sports injury centre, and education and training facilities; and Provision of additional car parking. Let's take CricketNSW to task then as well. What are they doing out there?? Let's also suggest that this project was more filling a gap than any additional rectangle venue would have. And on that - it's been put that the Melb rectangular venue will be really handy come some point in the future when we have 2 HAL teams, a RL and a Super 15 or 16 team etc ........... all these things that might happen one day and actually need a 30K or more venue................none of this build it as you need it. At least the Blacktown venue, isn't a 25K venue up front!!!! Note - EMBANKMENT seating for 8,000.............there's only 1500 'seats' in phase 1............it isn't a 10,000 capacity STADIUM in the concrete and plastic sense of the phrase.

True Tah....you may well be right . My reaction is not about their choice but about one critical point. Information is trickling down the that the project is and always was dependent on NSW state government money.This was emphatically denied by the AFL. This project could only benefit Blacktown.If it was the AFL's initial strategy that they could force the state government.s hand by arguing Blacktown has already committed its scarce funds then I have a right to be upset. We would have been better of with football. There will I believe be no Western Sydney Aleague at Parramatta. It is to close to Sydney FC. and could canibalise the Mariners support in the North West and Hornsby. Remember where we are it is easier to get to Gosford on the F3. It is more likely to be Penrith. But I note that the Blacktown AFL stadium is at Rooty Hill in western Blacktown about halfway between Parramatta and Penrith and only 20 minutes on the M7 from football's real jewel Fairfield/Liverpool. I am entitled to rant. Demetriou came here and said the AFL has the money itself to complete the project on its own. by 2012.I am entitled to react if this is not true.

Redb First line should read In the early 70's NSW Soccer

Redb In Blacktown there is a former NSL and current state league team the Blacktown Demons ......In the early WNSW Soccer set up in Blacktown their head Office and a training facililicty and employee a large number of staff at this site as well. The Blacktown Demons built Gabbie Stadium with grand stands etc to hold about 8, 000 .......... so your comment about investing was done and in the millions nay more than ten million dollars as money is counted in the 70 & 80's by todays standards about 40 million worth. The only thing I am happy about is in business it is sometimes said to do good business you deal with good people no matter how good the deal looks if you are dealing with a nut job then you will get hurt by it. So first the reason given that is no investment related to RL not football, second in Melbourne if a council said to the AFL if you do not more an AFL team here I will give all my support to RL you would react I am sure, finally and as Westy said but nut jobs, ethics aside the money being spent and provided by the NSW & Commonwealth Governments was given for grants for parks i.e. flowers, swings and sporting teams, netball, basketball, hockey, Rl, RU, Football etc not to provide the seed capital to a "risky" stadium investment. Long term I actually see the AFL as a big looser dealinng with the Blacktown Council and what the council has done will be sheeted home to the AFL in time.

True Tah, An article from a local Melbourne paper on a Sudanese taking up AFL as a ruckman. http://caulfield-glen-eira-leader.whereilive.com.au/sport/story/murrumbeena-colts-bol-luak-a-shooting-star/ Redb

Redb - interesting in Vic, the Frankston bypass will go ahead, $700mill, $350 from State, and if they get the other $350 from Feds - then - no toll road. Gee - - about 75% of that is being spent on that rectangular venue - - - (well, it's $268mill, not sure what proportion is state funds - I thought it mostly state - if not all) - - - that money could effectively remove any concern of possible tolls. Westy - Yeah, all that we've heard about the wonderful ground sharing of soccer and RL - - mutual benefit etc - - then this Blacktown project shouldn't have any baring whatsoever??

Redb....Western Sydney is not and never has been a squalor.....it is an area I am proud to live in and be part of. We have whether Labor or Liberal been left behind somewhat in transport and social capital facilities...however people on the whole are somewhat more stoic.... ..I have always been comfortable with the AFL investment in Western Sydney. You were not in attendance at Council meeting when it was made clear that the AFL investment was not conditional on any NSW government funding which we knew would not be forthcoming. Land and 10 million was what they asked for and was assured it was all that was necessary. You are right my rant is that people do not like being mislead or worse lied to. Those funds are far more critical to us then for others. Our local state political representative says this may not now be the case. Reece has rejected an official request for funds and promised assistance but no real money. The focus has now changed to the possible new government. If this was always the case then the AFL needed to go to the state government before it came to a Council desperate to put their area on the national map. their desperation I understand and support but not their financial acumen.