Out of the ashes, a real club emerges

Kazama: "I think there’ll be a disappointing crowd at Hindmarsh on Friday." Crowd: 13,585 Whoops! I think I'll put that one down to a) it being Michael Valkanis' testimonial game, and b) a decent amount of advertising and promotion being done for a change. Hopefully we get an even bigger crowd on Wednesday after the Roar's win in Gosford tonight.

The Bear, Good to see someone doesn't take the "NBL couldn't organize a bake sale" line of thinking and render the Slingers irrelevant. The Slingers actually had a very committed ownership -- a prerequisite for any successful NBL club these days as the NBL itself has virtually given up on any marketing whatsoever -- but couldn't make it work for a number of reasons. One thing that became apparent was Singapore's "event culture" -- ie, they'll turn up for one-off showpiece events, but the concept of having a team playing week in week out is somewhat foreign. Now that the Slingers are essentially playing an exhibition schedule, they've on occasions been able to draw 5-6,000 -- when they play a high-profile opponent. So to those that scoff at S-League figures and at the same time point to massive national team crowds (which, unlike the A-League, is not a week-in week-out proposition), there's reason for caution on both sides. The battle to win over the media will be crucial for an A-League side. A lot of column space is dedicated to the EPL, etc. The Slingers barely rated a mention even on the day of their games.

The Singapore expansion may be losing momentum Jesse, Aussie NBL Slingers team is now part of SEA league in development. Economic crisis may have precipitated the already vulnerable comp, but this may set a precedent for the Singaporeans. Thoughts?

Yes, I totally agree. A Friendship Cup, Peace Cup, et al, would be a perfect statement of our commitment to football in our region and be more competitive than a lot of people would think. It's time for Australia to embrace Indonesia – and if we can start through football, what better way?

The Bear Peace Cup sounds good. Rugby Union have the Bledisloe. Cricket have their traditional fixtures. I think it's time we had one.

Sam, lol, we have that game already in one sense. Check out Jan 28 at Jarkata. First round of Asian Cup qualifiers ;-) It may be a taste of things to come?? An International friendly...we could call a Peace Cup, yeah?

Jesse I think it would be good if we could play some kind of a annual tournament against them. One match in Indonesia every year in front of a packed stadium. The best of our a-league against their national team. Telecast live on SBS. This would create good ties with them and give us some kind of a traditional fixture which our national team so badly needs.

I think Hazza is on to a good thing here. Check out a column I wrote for TWG some weeks back on the Australia–Indonesia relationship. http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blogs/halftimeorange/australia-v-indonesia-one-tie-that-should-bind-157538/

Mattay, Smeltz is doing the simple things right. And perhaps that's what has made the Phoenix great improvers this season.

Jes I would be interested in where you see NZ football going over the next few years and their potential.

dairyflat: "The team is really becoming part of Wellington’s sporting culture." That's great to hear. After the failure of the Knights a lot of commentators (not mentioning any names!) over here said it was proof that an NZ team doesn't belong in the league. The Phoenix, and the people of Wellington, should be congratulated for making such a strong case for not only having an NZ team in our league but for showing the potential of football in NZ. dairyflat: "For me though the great thing is seeing Phoenix gear on people as you walk around town." To me, that is when you know a team has made its mark on a city. In the Adelaide City days the only replica shirts you'd see would be at the game, and even then there wouldn't be many people sporting them - or many people at all, for that matter. Now with Adelaide United you see people all around town wearing Reds gear. Again, I'm pleased to hear that the Phoenix have made an impact on the local consciousness. It'd be fantastic for your club if you guys could make the finals.

I dont understand why we always have to expand to our East. On our doorstep we have a nation of 250 million football fanatics in Indonesia. This is a nation that declared a public holiday so people could go home to watch final of EURO 2004!.Kevin Rudd would love us for bring our two nations together in the name of sport.Something politics has failed to do. If you go further north, Malaysia or Thailand or Singapore are all nations with football as there main sporting interest. Why not have some Uefa cup type of tournament for our A league teams and teams from these nations.It would be open to teams who have failed to achieve Champions league.Its a no brainer!

The Bear - My opinion it is that if we want to have a proper league with a decent number of teams, let alone a second division, we are going to have to make the effort. We simply cannot do it by ourselves in the short term as the resources aren't here. If we are happy to accept that we'll never have a proper league system and be satisfied with 10-14 teams, then there's no need to expand beyond NZ. But judging from the comments I've read across the blogosphere, people want more than that. To get those extra teams we'll have no choice but to look outside our borders. Slippery Jim - We already have the unbalanced fixture list so it wouldn't be adding a problem. I think we can't afford to let tradition get in the way of our league being successful. We've already broken from what I see as football tradition by having league finals and no cup competition (unless you count the PSC). IMO we have to do what works for us, not what works in Europe. I'm quite willing to make the trade-off of having an lopsided fixture list to maximise the number of teams, quality of play and amount of revenue generated for the FFA.

What I envisaged was not teams from other countries playing in the A-League(post yesterday) but the best players from Asia graduating to the A-League & perhaps four or 5 other major Leagues similar to what happens in Europe. Simply because I cant see 90% of Asian countries having the necesssary ingredients(see yesterday again) in their country to form viable professional leagues. Heres a list of countries GDP.I'm no economist but I presume this is a measurement of a countries wealth & therefore their ability to uphold a professional football League:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) So if you take 1-15 from a sporting league perspective it is obvious why the USA(several sports) & Europe(predominantly Football) are forerunners.] Its no coincidence that the big 4 Football Leagues are in countries in the Top 8 on this list. So we look at Asia on the same basis & see from 1-15 includes Japan ,China,South Korea & Australia. It also includes India a potential member of the Big Asian Leagues,but at this stage the infrastructure for Football & its development is poor. MBH will have to work his socks of here. The rest in my opinion are out of the ball park so realistically should become feeder Leagues for the A-League etc. Not having clubs in the A-League but quality players from that country. Same for Japan,South Korea,China & maybe as I said yesterday a Middle East League(Blood clots shouldnt be a problem). This allows the major League countries to develop second divisions in line with MBH's vision,thus providing an avenue for players from the best of the rest from Asia to ply their trade. This is my line of thought anyway. I see this as a more realistic path for the development & Strength of Asian Football than trying to force professional Football Leagues on countries that economically,infrastructurally(word?) are not capable of doing so. Heres also a list of members of the AFC by region(have to view each region seperately). Match up these AFC members with the GDP list above & you'll see where I'm Coming from:- http://www.the-afc.com/eng/nassoc/index.jsp.html

Going back to the thrust of JF's post. Being here in Wellington and being part if the arrival of Phoenix has bee great. It's a real point of ficus for the football family. For me though the great thing is seeing Phoenix gear on people as you walk around town. The team is really becoming part of Wellington's sporting culture.

Kazama, being something of a traditionalist/purist in football matters, I already strongly disagree with an unbalanced fixture list. To have a fixture list in which teams do not play each other the same number of times home and away creates an unfair advantage for some teams in each season.

Is it worth all that effort? It doesn't sound all that elegant, Kazama. I am all for "foreign" and "exotic" football competitions, but the tyranny of distance may be all too much. I watched ABC AsiaPacific news this morning and i saw how the Solomon Islands have a good grass roots Football (Futsal in particular) program. They are doing quite well in the under 14 futsal tourny at Canberra right now. If these type of Pacific countries can raise the capital, infrastructure, etc, then it would be a FIFA coup of grand proportions. Perhaps further HAL expansion and a subsequent P/R system can be more supported from this side of the date line. The proximity to Eastern Australia being the "clincher".

In the current system I guess the only solution is to have the away trips to Singapore for the ACL reps at the start of the season. But, the more teams we bring in, the more crowded the fixture list will become and we'll need to have midweek games if we want to avoid a clash with the AFL and NRL. That said, we should consider also that we currently play three sets of fixtures, so once we have about 12-14 teams we will have to cut back to two sets or even less, like the AFL has. Maybe not every team will play each other home and away; then we mightn't need midweek games and the fixture list wouldn't be a logjam. Perhaps ACL teams would be exempt from having to go to Singapore or Indonesia or wherever altogether during the minor rounds.

Sure, if the Singapore team are willing to travel that much... I can feel a blood clot coming on!!! However, imagine the A League team's timetabling for the ACL final rounds if they also had to travel to Singapore, as well... it could be even more difficult than what they (AU) had to endure last year. The grander plans of embracing the SEA pod of countries is just getting silly. But that was my idea, lol.

Personally I think the travel factor isn't such a big deal. If anything, it would hurt the Singapore team the most, as they'd have to do it every other week not once or twice a season like the Aussie / NZ teams. If they were willing to do that, then the rest of the teams surely would. Furthermore, the long trips in the ACL didn't stop Adelaide from winning in South Korea and Vietnam against their champions, drawing in Japan against their champions and getting the result they needed in Uzbekistan against their champions elect.