Johan Botha throws up problems with ICC policy

Yeah, Brett, there was sarcasm :) but I've wondered about his action too. He seems to really flick his wrist over during the delivery stride which may make it seem worse than it really is. But his whole action is odd - the bent front leg and bowling from a much lower height than he could.

Greg I accept your argument that Murali has now introduced a grey area in this game. Someone with the action like Murali, you can't tell whether he is chucking or not because his deformities make his legal deliveries look suspect. I don't believe Murali is a chucker and I believes that vast majority of his deliveries are legal. However he is a long with every other bowler due to law changes are now unaccountable in match day condition. In any case I believe everyone bowling with the brace on are going to bowl less effectively. You put extra weight in your arms and you have to change your normal bowling actions. I only posted the video not to say that Murali bowls legal delivery every time. I'm just posting it to refute arguments that Murali NEVER bowled a legal delivery in his life and that it is impossible to bowl a doosra without chucking which is plain wrong.

Greg, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but do you ever tire of being the voice of reason?!?! ;-)

I agree that Shaun Tait's "effort ball" is suspect (perhaps the only reason he has not landed in more trouble is because of the Neil Manthorp proposition that if you don't play test cricket, you are far less likely to be cited for throwing). Herein lies a lesson: it is "effort balls" that bring all types of bowler to the edge of legitimacy. Which brings me to Murali. First let me say that whatever one's personal beliefs over his action, he has been declared legitimate by the ICC, and therefore his records must be accepted. It is the same with Flo-Jo in athletics. Where Murali differs from people like Flo-Jo is that it is beyond doubt that Murali is not a deliberate cheat. Thus his records must also be respected. Having made these points, I am going to differ from those above who have had their minds changed by the video. Yes, it is convincing. But it misses the most important point, which is not what Murali can do with the brace on, but how WELL he can do it. As with all suspect bowlers, it is his "effort balls" that cause batsmen most concern, and the video showed no evidence that he can bowl such balls with the brace on. In fact, iif anything the ease with which Michael Slater was playing him suggested that he had lost all the sting in his bowling. It is of interest to me that at times in his career when he has felt his action to be under scrutiny, Murali has not produced the goods. In 5 tests in Australia, he averages 75.41 per wicket (cf. 22.18 for his career). For the period when the ICC did not allow him to bowl his doosra, he was barely better than Nathan Hauritz (sorry, cricinfo does not allow me to back this up with statistics). It also interests me that even people who profess that they have no issue at all with Murali's action invariably nominate Shane Warne as the greatest spinner of all time. Why? If one really is comfortable with Murali's action, then it seems to me that his statistics demand that he be regarded as the greatest. We all have our opinion on this matter (and mine should be clear), but I'm going to suggest that we will never have a definitive answer.

RickG, I'm afraid so, though I'm detecting some sarcasm in your post. Anyone else find it curious that Tait needs the heavy strapping on his elbow?? I mean, the elbow is supposed to straight through delivery, isn't it.....

Brett: "By the way, someone needs to buy Shaun Tait a long-sleeved shirt too…" No, surely not!!!

Meant to add, tried to "throw" offies with a run-up and in a full length net - couldn't do it!!

Great piece Conks, as usual, and as has been said, fascinating discussion ensuing. On Botha, I had the very same thoughts about in when we first saw him in January, and I too was shocked not that he'd been reported previously, but that his action still looked terrible. Fair to say I'm not suprised he's been mentioned again. I like the conspiracy about long sleeves, but I think it also adds to the problem, 'cos you can still see a bent flash of green!! By the way, someone needs to buy Shaun Tait a long-sleeved shirt too... Regarding Murali - and this was before seeing the YouTube clip in question (which I'd seen before, and heard M.Slater discussing on Ch.9 over the summer) - I've somewhat changed my view on him, 'cos to my eyes, most of the time the ball's coming from out of the back of the hand. Botha and Harbhajan bowling from the front of the hand is far more obvious. Funnily enough, I've mastered the "chucker" off-break during net throw-downs in recent seasons. Throwing balls to batsmen, it's easy to get more speed, bounce, etc, by throwing the ball (even off- and leg-cutters). I discovered one day that it was actually quite easy - too easy, even - to "throw" massive off-breaks, and so now at the end of a throw-down, I'll often throw a few overs of offies (pun intended) to work on moving the feet to spinners. Maybe I need to wear long sleeves to training next season...

what does any of it have to do with his elbow?

I know this thread is about Johan Botha and I'd like to see the sort of analysis on his bowling technique that the You Tube on Murali showed (thanks to dasilva for putting it up). I must say that I'd always believed that Murali was a chucker and joined the club that suggested an asterik be put beside his name on the list of wixkewt-takers. But the You Tube video seems to be compelling evidence that he is a physical freak with the rotation of his shoulder and his elastic wrist. As I say, when will Botha allow a similar investigation of his bowling method?

Fascinating youtube clip, no doubt. Slaters approval counts for something. However, I didn't think M's shoulder or wrist were shown to be abnormal. The extension of the wrist was not demonstrated, as easy as it would have been to show, and I can do the same with my 50plus year old shoulder as was demonstrated. But we're talking about Botha and the processes of adjudicating on chuckers. I don't understand why some contributers say the umpire has to judge at the time. There are numerous examples in sports, including cricket, of technological assistance. Further, it is standard that football matches are video reviewed for illegalities, and players can be cited for foul play well after the match. It is asking too much of umpires to do the calling. I reckon use a super slow-mo camera during a game much the same as a road speed camera. Review the evidence and then take action. Ben, of course you still get wit on the field. A player would probably get fined today for the Insole comment, but I like the two Waugh classics. Mark Waugh was taking some time to face up in a Shield match, whereupon Jamie Siddons said "Come on, it isn't a Test match" Waugh replied, "Of course not, you're here". Or the grade bowlers comment after Dean Waugh played and missed a few "You must be the adopted one!"

I do understand why people are upset with new laws. If someone deliberately throws, the umpires can't call no ball anymore. If someone like Murali who has a deformities where it's impossible to tell whether he throws or not, then that leads him open to occasionally throw the ball and get away from it. I don't think there's any way around it though until people develop technology to be able to measure the degree of straightening of every delivery and then no ball person automatically anytime the flexion goes above 15 degrees.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDxRhcpBZio I think this video pretty much debunks the myth that Murali never bowled a legal delivery in his life. You see him bowling with a brace where it's physically impossible to straighten (and hence chuck) and he stills able to bowl a doosra and all of his deliveries.

I believe the ICC have commissioned research (Feb 2009) into the development of a device that can measure degrees of flex in the bowling arm. The device is about the size of an "Ipod Shuffle" and can be worn during matches for real time information. This type of technology (which is used to test arm actions of swimmers and tennis players) seems to be the only real way to end the debate on "suspect actions" if it is shown to work. Ever since the Meckiff incident us Aussies have had strong views on "suspect actions" probably because The English left arm spinner in that series, Tony Lock was was generally thought to throw his faster ball. On one occasion Essex batsman Doug Insole asked the umpire if he'd been "bowled or run out" after Lockie had shattered his stumps. Ah! the dry humour of cricketers

I remember seeing slo mo replays of Botha's action on ch9 last summer absolutely gobsmacked at how bad it looked. My issue with him is that, as I understand it, he was an average medium-pace bowler who changed to spin because it afforded better opportunities for selection. He deliberately modelled his action on Harby apparently - alarms bells! There's a point I think needs to be made about slow v fast bowling. It's physically impossible for the human arm not to bend slightly from the elbow when wheeling your arm through at pace - simply because the forearm is travelling faster than the upper arm/shoulder. It's wrong to argue that slow bowlers should be cut some slack as the fast bowlers are right on the line - the spinners have no biomechanic reason to straighten their arm so it's an unfair comparison.

I understand Sledgeross, and that is another matter that gets up my nose too. The spineless ICC. If nothing else, Murali's want to play cricket should definitely be commended, but that is as close as I can go to paying him a compliment.

Hoy, you cant blame Murali for the law being changed. Hes just a bloke who loves playing cricket. ITs the ICC that should be the target of your venom, not individual players.

Not that the article was on Murali at all, but every time I hear about chuckers, he springs into mind like a bear trap.